Fórum Defesa Brasil

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Voltar ao estilo URSS eu acho muito difícil, mas que vão voltar a ser grandes, bem grandes, isso vão.

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Voltar ao estilo URSS eu acho muito difícil, mas que vão voltar a ser grandes, bem grandes, isso vão.

cb_lima escreveu:

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Rapaz, que coisa, cadê aquela ferrugem que o povo gosta de dizer que são os navios da pobre e falida Rússia?

Tem portos na Russia aonde a ferrugem é grande CM... infelizmente.

Esses aí são o supra-sumo do que os caras tem, e são de respeito mesmo, mas os anos com pouco ou nenhum investimento deixaram muitos navios fantásticos deles em condições bem ruins.

Como disse ... infelizmente mas é verdade.

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CB_Lima

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Rapaz, que coisa, cadê aquela ferrugem que o povo gosta de dizer que são os navios da pobre e falida Rússia?

Sei que está zuando, mas vou responder a sério: será que este gráfico explica?

P44 escreveu:

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Voltar ao estilo URSS eu acho muito difícil, mas que vão voltar a ser grandes, bem grandes, isso vão.

não é URSS, é Império Russo mesmo , sob a liderança do Czar Putin I

Francisco Daniel escreveu:Quantos Kirov à Rússia ainda tem na ativa?

O FAS informa 3, procede?

P44 escreveu:

Francisco Daniel escreveu:Quantos Kirov à Rússia ainda tem na ativa?

O FAS informa 3, procede?

na prática só 1 na activa, justamente o Pedro o Grande

parece que o Admiral Nakhimov puderá ser reactivado a médio prazo.

Tb se fala de um hipotético reativar no Admiral Lazarev mas ao que parece será muito dificil, o navio se degredou muito desde o colapso da URSS.
Penso que mais realista serão 2, o Pedro o Grande que só entrou ao serviço em 1998 e pertence á frota do norte, e o Nakhimov talvez irá para a frota do pacifico.

cicloneprojekt escreveu:

P44 escreveu: na prática só 1 na activa, justamente o Pedro o Grande

parece que o Admiral Nakhimov puderá ser reactivado a médio prazo.

Tb se fala de um hipotético reativar no Admiral Lazarev mas ao que parece será muito dificil, o navio se degredou muito desde o colapso da URSS.
Penso que mais realista serão 2, o Pedro o Grande que só entrou ao serviço em 1998 e pertence á frota do norte, e o Nakhimov talvez irá para a frota do pacifico.

Convenhamos meu amigo, ainda é suficiente para por ao fundo parcela considerável de várias marinhas do mundo com o uso de apenas um navio...

Russian warships maneuvers 'not provocation:' Chavez
Agence France-Presse | Nov 25, 2008


CARACAS: Russian warships were to arrive in Venezuela Tuesday for joint maneuvers -- Moscow's first military presence in the region since the Cold War, as Washington closely monitored the situation.

"They're not a provocation but an exchange" between "two free, sovereign countries that are getting closer," Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said in a news conference late Monday.

"We carried out maneuvers with Brazil recently, with France, with the Netherlands and now with Russia."

The joint exercises were to coincide with a two-day visit by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev to Venezuela, the strongest US critic in the region.

Analysts see Medvedev as bringing a defiant message to Washington's doorstep, in the wake of Russian outrage at US plans to install a strategic missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic, and support for the brief Georgia war in August.

Venezuelan defense officials said the ships, including the nuclear-powered cruiser Peter the Great and destroyer Admiral Chabankenko, would arrive early Tuesday.

Medvedev was due to arrive Wednesday and meet fiercely anti-American president Chavez on Thursday, before heading to communist Cuba.

The maneuvers will start on Wednesday in port and take place at sea on December 1, Venezuelan Operations Command chief General Jesus Gonzalez told reporters Monday.

A Russian naval spokesman said in Moscow that the exercises would include operation planning, helping ships in distress and supplying ships on the move.

"If the Venezuelans and the Russians want to have, you know, a military exercise, that's fine, but we'll obviously be watching it very closely," US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said Monday.

"I don't think there's any question about who ... the region looks to in terms of political, economic, diplomatic and as well as military power," McCormack added.

The US has expressed concern, however, about Russian arms supplies to the oil-rich OPEC country.

The two countries have signed 4.4 billion dollars in bilateral arms deals since 2005, including radars, 24 Sukhoi-30 planes, 50 helicopters and 100,000 Kalashnikovs.

Medvedev was expected to expand arms deals during his visit, as well as economic and energy ties, including plans for a joint civilian nuclear reactor.

"Russia is a friend which held out a hand to us," Gonzalez told AFP in a recent interview.

"We want to be very strong, but in a highly dissuasive direction. So that any country in the world thinks not once but 10 times before coming here."

In September, two Tu-160 Russian strategic bombers carried out training for several days in Venezuela.

The Russian warships were due to sail into La Guaira, near Caracas, and Puerto Cabello in northern Carabobo state.

"Until a few years ago, we did a lot of maneuvers with the United States. Now we don't do maneuvers with the United States, of course. We got out of that defense system and we're creating our own system of defense," Chavez said Monday.

The fleet includes five aircraft and several small ships, and Venezuela will provide eight aircraft and 11 ships, Gonzalez said Monday, adding that 1,150 Russian forces and 600 Venezuelans would take part in the exercises.

"Nations frequently exercise with each other. Russia is free to exercise peacefully with anyone that they want to exercise with," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said Monday.

"But also people note through these exercises the company that nations keep."

Venezuela welcomes Russian ships

Russian warships have arrived for joint exercises with Venezuela's navy, the first deployment of its kind in the Caribbean since the Cold War. The naval squadron, including a nuclear-powered cruiser, sailed into view at the port of La Guaira.

The exercises will coincide with a two-day visit by Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev, which starts on Wednesday. He is on a tour of Latin America, pushing Russia's ties to a region of deep strategic interest to the US.

The Russian vessels, including the flagship missile cruiser Peter the Great and two support vessels, appeared off La Guaira, near Caracas, early on Tuesday.
The destroyer Admiral Chabanenko docked while Venezuelan forces fired a 21-gun salute.

Timing

The Russian vessels are set to begin manoeuvres in port on Wednesday, the day Mr Medvedev is due to arrive in Caracas, and from 1 December exercises will be out out at sea. President Medvedev is expected to visit the ships with his Venezuelan counterpart, Hugo Chavez, before he continues on to Cuba.

The timing of Mr Medvedev's tour is significant, coming during the transition period between the Bush and Obama administrations in the US, says BBC diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus. The Russian president's aim is to show Washington that if the US does things in Europe near Russia's borders which Moscow does not like, then Russia can pursue its own policies in a region long seen by Washington as its backyard, our correspondent says.

Boosting bilateral trade between Russia and Latin America, which could reach $15bn (£9.9bn) this year, is another priority for the Russian president during his talks. Mr Medvedev's tour began in Peru where he signed a series of economic and political co-operation accords. He then travelled on to Brazil, the region's key economic powerhouse.

Russia is keen to press the benefits of Russian technology in the areas of oil exploration, aerospace and defence. Brazil is currently overhauling its armed forces and is planning to spend billions of dollars in the next few years to refurbish equipment, a prospect that has excited defence contractors from several countries, Reuters reports.

New partners

Russia is already a major arms supplier to Venezuela, with contracts worth some $4.4bn (£2.39bn). During his visit to Caracas, Mr Medvedev could sign an accord under which Russia would help Venezuela build a nuclear energy plant in the state of Zulia. The two countries already co-operate closely on energy matters, with their state-owned energy companies embarking on joint enterprises.

Mr Medvedev's visit takes place just a few days after the Chinese president, Hu Jintao, toured several Latin American nations with a view to strengthening ties. Bilateral trade between Latin America and China is around $100bn a year. It is still far less than trade with the US ($560bn) or the EU ($250bn), but the trend is significant. China is buying more and more Latin American commodities like oil, minerals and soya.

Latin American governments of all political colours have themselves in recent years been seeking new commercial and diplomatic allies in what they see as a changing, multi-polar world.