NOTÍCIAS DO RAFALE

[Carlos Mathias]

Teu apartamento realmente não, mas o SU-35BM é melhor que cobertura na Vieira Souto.

Essa cobertura é sonho, delírio, como Gripen-NGBRi.
O SU-35BM é real, pronto e entregue operacional ano que vem.

[Skyway]

[sapao]

Prick,
estamos falando a mesma coisa, ou seja, que o radar doppler já pode rastrear varios tipos de alvos ao mesmo tempo.
A questão e que voce colocou se não seria muita informação para o piloto e eu concordei, porque já é muita informação nos radares atuais.
A capacidade em si de detecção não vai aumentar muito, vai mudar sim o tipo de processamento que é feito, por ser de abertura sintetica vai permitir uma maior gama de funçoes tanto de baixa probabilidade de interceptação como de jamming e por ai vai, porque o sinal será processado eletronicamente.
A quantidade de informações e tão grande que tem gente pedindo por favor para instalar um P.A. total no FX-2, porque o gerenciamento da cabine durante o BVR e fogo, muito mais de que se imaginava.
Sobre a capacidade do equipamento não quis dizer que o fabricante mente, mas omite muito!!!
Exemplo uma demonstração de um radar de abertura sintetica que o ganho por metro quadrado da antena era o dobro da concorrente, mas quando foram testar viram que a antena tinha meio metro quadrado, ou seja, dava quase na mesma. Omitir não e crime, faz parte do jogo, vai do comprador estudar e conhecer para saber comprar.
Carlos está certo, muita gente minimiza as funçoes dos equipamentos na Red Flag, mas o que mostram já e melhor que nada, e tanto quanto os equipamentos eles analisam as doutrinas utilizadas, a logistica, a pronta resposta, o preparo.
Enfim, analisam tambem a peça mais importante da aeonave: seu tripulante.

[Largomoco]

[Largomoco]

GMTT simultâneo com modos AA e AG.

Pessoal, acordem GMTT e GMTI SIMULTÂNEOS com os modos AA e AG. O RBE2 já possuí GMTT e GMTI. Também tem modos simultâneos mas com esses aí parece que não.

[]'s

Cara, de "ingreis" eu manjo um pouquinho e o texto diz claramente isso:

- os EAU querem modos GMTT/GMTI;
- os EAU querem modos Ar-Ar e Ar-terra simultâneos;

São duas solicitações diferentes. Se o General de Brigada Aérea Alain Silvy estiver correto, o Rafale ainda não possui essas capacidades.

O rbe2 possui o modo ataque AtoG e atoa simultâneo desde é operacional, é o único com o F22 e o F16 block 60! em contrapartida o GMTT, para os alvos moventes ao solo será integrado ao padrão F4, a tradução do francês em inglês não é terrível, a tradução poderia fazer pensar que o radar AESA seria uma regressão em relação ao agp 80, então qu' fala do RBE2 pesa, que querem os árabes c' está um awacs sobre os seus fighters, foutent do principal, a sensibilidade dos captores, querem ver distante um ponto c' leste todo!

[Jacobs]

"Num tindi o que ele falou..."

[prp]

Nem eu, ele concordou ou discordou da bagaça do jacobs?
O GMTT é só no F4?

[joao fernando]

Mas até recebermos algo, estaremos no Rafale Next Generetion F98, de tanta demora. Logo, é inocuo essa falação toda aqui.

[Jacobs]

Isso eu concordo joão, até a gente começar a receber alguma coisa, já vai ter X-Wing voando por ai.

[AlbertoRJ]

Eu achava que o RBE2 já possuía o modo GMTT/I e inclusive postei fontes mas, depois de pesquisar, concluí que esse modo ainda será implementado ou que até já existe mas deverá ser melhorado.

Sobre isso e o futuro do Rafale em uma outra matéria da DSI:

DSI May 2010


In 2019 or 2020 should start deliveries for tranche 5 Rafale, to be ordered late 2015. Already, the various stakeholders of the program are working to trace the contours of the standard - F4 - of these weapons systems. The PEA for exploring paths for capacitive improvements have started last fall. The aim is to commission a review of all areas, to examine every major system or equipment and try to evaluate which technology advances are expected to be at the rendez vous and those which couldn't be. Or those for whom it will be be possible to justify and obtain budgetary credits and those for whom it will not be possible! This explains the contents of this future F4 standard is still no freezed. However, the operationals are almost already expressing the considerable importance to dispose of a viewfinder-HMD. In A2A, it would allow one rafale to launch its MICA on a hostile aircraft without having to roll up in a close dogfight, which requires to be rid of its load of bombs. So to be able to continue its A2G original mission.

Essential viewfinder-HMD.

Beyond, the airmen consider that the viewfinder-HMD would provide an added value in the field of air-ground support, allowing to design to the weapon system, with the cross of the HMD, a ground target which would be in lateral or rear area and not necessarily, as it is the case today, in the front line sector of the aircraft. Or to design, via the Link-16, the ground target to a team member taking over. Thales evoked the possibility of an efficient equipment for the Rafale coming from the current Tiger HMD . And it seems quite clear that such equipment is much anticipated by potential export customers of the Rafale.

In the A2G field , operationals intend to have a laser designation pods even more efficient than the Damocles just arrived today in the qualification phase. They want the capacity to determine from a 6000 m altitude if the individual located on the ground is armed or not. As for weapons, they evoke missille with double capacity air-ground and air-air. And for the AASM bombs, they emphasize the development, for the 250 kg bomb, of laser guidance in addition to the current route by GPS and inertial hybridized IR sensor, but also on the achievement for the 250 kg body , of modular charges adapted to various types of employment and target, for example to focus on the effects of detonation and reduce collateral damage. The operationals do not want the AASM 125 kg proposed by Sagem. However an AASM 1000 kg with the ability to penetrate bunkers and reinforced buildings is favorably mentioned.

The air-ground sensors of the weapon system should also provide very high definition modes to improve the tracking of ground target (GMTI GMTT modes for the radar) with more complex interweaving of air-ground and air- air modes (monitoring of aerial threats in various areas while providing a ground tracking function). In the A2A field, one will have to start thinking about the studies for a MICA successor and to improve a little more the capabilities for identification of non-cooperative target (NCTR). In the matter of data links, including the Link-16, one will have to make greater use of satellite links. And the sea serpent of steering nozzle for the M88 is discussed again. It is also question of developing a stealth kit. Work will be launched to reduce the RCS by modifying the coating of the cans under the Rafale.

INCAS [Insert New Additional Capacity for SPECTRA] for SPECTRA 5T.

Already, the authorities and industrials are preparing evolutions for SPECTRA , to allow it to remain very effective when will start coming the tranche 5 Rafale. The PEA INCAS (Insert New Additional Capacity for SPECTRA), notified last September by the DGA to Thales Airborne Systems and MBDA, is indeed preparing SPECTRA 5T. The real challenge, according to Thales engineers, is to think, not only about the original equipment on board the new tranche 5 Rafale, but also about the retrofit in the framework of a prospective site to put this future new standard for the rest of the fleet including the first Rafale delivered.

An ambition much more delicate than it seems at first glance, because it need to evolve SPECTRA within acceptable limits - volume, mass, energy, cable, Interactions - by the first Rafale series, although their architecture has been conceived in the late 1980s. This requires, according to Thales officials, treasures of cunning and ingenuity. We must keep reaching an extreme interchangeability. Because the great longevity planned for the Rafale actually complicates the task. One need to design systems, allowing them the opportunity to integrate with minimal impact new technologies able to cope with post-2020 or even 2030 threats, still not easily discernible. As now formulated, the fundamental objective of SPECTRA 5T is therefore to be able to detect, even further, more discreet and even furtive threats.
How? by integrating, at the air entrances more efficient EM broadband receptors. Unlike current SPECTRA, with receivers still mixing analog and digital, those of SPECTRA 5T will be entirely digital. Which, incidentally, will facilitate transport and data management. More, added to future new processing algorithms, this increased "digitization" of equipement should provide a significant improvement in terms of sensitivity and angular measurement, with the added advantage of greater receptor compactness . This will allow, with equal volume, to much more! It is certainly delicate, given the sensitivity of the topic,to enter further into the details of improvements in matter of performance and functionality. But it must be very clear: according to Thales engineers, it is a revolution for technology and capability at the same level as it is for the RBE2 Radar evolving from a passive PESA antenna to the active AESA.

The GaN revolution.

This "revolution" also relates to jamming equipment for the future SPECTRA 5T. These transmitters, integrated at the top of the drift and the forward fuselage, near the apices and before the canard, will benefit from the integration of a new technology the gallium nitride (GaN) to replace the arsenide gallium currently used. The use of this broadband semiconductor, still unique within the European Union, very hard and with a very high thermal capacity, is expected to reduce significantly the electrical consumer and heating for a given power. The solid state antennas will provide a much greater lens precision with a very narrow emission beam. Note that to avoid any risk of external pressure on eventual Rafale export sales, the GaN components, like the gallium arsenide modules already used for the new RBE2 active antenna ,will be produced in France by a factory of the Franco-German company ( EADS / Thales joint-venture) UMS. The Thales engineers are also working to modify the current distribution between reception and jamming functions in SPECTRA. With, for example, the idea to integrate, for SPECTRA 5T, a multisignal RF receiver within the jammers. Viewing similarities between jammers and receivers components, such an approach would be technologically feasible and, potentially, would provide interesting synergies. Nevertheless, the collocation of such equipment would introduce real technical difficulties - EM compatibility -, though perfectly manageable. This pass, to avoid to perturb the receiver with collocated jamming emission, by appealing different waveforms for each equipment, with a wider range of frequence than currently employed on Spectra and with the implementation of active filters. In contrast, the locations and volumes vested to such equipment would remain unchanged from today. No way to modify anything in the aerodynamics of the aircraft or to impact the structure of the cell. Similarly, these changes would occur at energy isoconsumption [same energy consumption]. Asked whether the integration of tracted active EM decoys - in use with F/A-18E/F, B-1 and Typhoon - could be an interesting track for SPECTRA 5T, Thales engineers , as also the operationals, replied by expressing doubts about the broad effectiveness of the formula. It is difficult to re-roll the lure in flight and it must be dropped before landing. Hooked from a certain distance behind the carrier, it could allow a foreign fire control to recognize it as a decoy and, paradoxically, to facilitate the detection of the real target. Certainly, the tracted active EM jammer provides good angular jamming. But the SPECTRA ability to use jamming in cooperative mode - mode still insufficiently cleared by the operationals - is expected to balance the absence of tracted decoys on the Rafale.What is almost certain, however, is that SPECTRA 5T will implement dropped active EM lures . They should be able to simulate the RCS of a Rafale and to track, thanks to the deployment of a small wing, a trajectory similar to the simulation of an airplane. This had already been the subject of studies and demonstration trials during the 1990s. It seems that the expected performance of these "dropped" lures are higher than those tracted. Nevertheless, studies will be launched to assess the interest of the latter. The carriage of additional IR cartridges on some external payload points is also expected. Although the PEA INCAS has been notified in November 2009, the study of the SPECTRA 5T architecture system have already made good progress. Suitable demonstrators for various equipment should begin to work next year. J.-L ®

Acho que o General comentou alguma coisa na entrevista.
Que cada um tire suas conclusões.

Abraços

[joao fernando]

É aquela coisa:

O F5 é velho
O AMX não tem integração com misseis e não tem radar
O Rafale é cego
O F18 pesa toneladas
O Gripen não existe

Ou seja, cada time sabe os defeitos do outro, e ficamos só nisso. Qualquer coisaatual na FAB seria maravilhoso. Mas ficamos nessa de sempre mostrar as fraquezas do outro, numa falação sem fim.

[Francoorp]

Eu achava que o RBE2 já possuía o modo GMTT/I e inclusive postei fontes mas, depois de pesquisar, concluí que esse modo ainda será implementado ou que até já existe mas deverá ser melhorado.

Sobre isso e o futuro do Rafale em uma outra matéria da DSI:

DSI May 2010


In 2019 or 2020 should start deliveries for tranche 5 Rafale, to be ordered late 2015. Already, the various stakeholders of the program are working to trace the contours of the standard - F4 - of these weapons systems. The PEA for exploring paths for capacitive improvements have started last fall. The aim is to commission a review of all areas, to examine every major system or equipment and try to evaluate which technology advances are expected to be at the rendez vous and those which couldn't be. Or those for whom it will be be possible to justify and obtain budgetary credits and those for whom it will not be possible! This explains the contents of this future F4 standard is still no freezed. However, the operationals are almost already expressing the considerable importance to dispose of a viewfinder-HMD. In A2A, it would allow one rafale to launch its MICA on a hostile aircraft without having to roll up in a close dogfight, which requires to be rid of its load of bombs. So to be able to continue its A2G original mission.

Essential viewfinder-HMD.

Beyond, the airmen consider that the viewfinder-HMD would provide an added value in the field of air-ground support, allowing to design to the weapon system, with the cross of the HMD, a ground target which would be in lateral or rear area and not necessarily, as it is the case today, in the front line sector of the aircraft. Or to design, via the Link-16, the ground target to a team member taking over. Thales evoked the possibility of an efficient equipment for the Rafale coming from the current Tiger HMD . And it seems quite clear that such equipment is much anticipated by potential export customers of the Rafale.

In the A2G field , operationals intend to have a laser designation pods even more efficient than the Damocles just arrived today in the qualification phase. They want the capacity to determine from a 6000 m altitude if the individual located on the ground is armed or not. As for weapons, they evoke missille with double capacity air-ground and air-air. And for the AASM bombs, they emphasize the development, for the 250 kg bomb, of laser guidance in addition to the current route by GPS and inertial hybridized IR sensor, but also on the achievement for the 250 kg body , of modular charges adapted to various types of employment and target, for example to focus on the effects of detonation and reduce collateral damage. The operationals do not want the AASM 125 kg proposed by Sagem. However an AASM 1000 kg with the ability to penetrate bunkers and reinforced buildings is favorably mentioned.

The air-ground sensors of the weapon system should also provide very high definition modes to improve the tracking of ground target (GMTI GMTT modes for the radar) with more complex interweaving of air-ground and air- air modes (monitoring of aerial threats in various areas while providing a ground tracking function). In the A2A field, one will have to start thinking about the studies for a MICA successor and to improve a little more the capabilities for identification of non-cooperative target (NCTR). In the matter of data links, including the Link-16, one will have to make greater use of satellite links. And the sea serpent of steering nozzle for the M88 is discussed again. It is also question of developing a stealth kit. Work will be launched to reduce the RCS by modifying the coating of the cans under the Rafale.

INCAS [Insert New Additional Capacity for SPECTRA] for SPECTRA 5T.

Already, the authorities and industrials are preparing evolutions for SPECTRA , to allow it to remain very effective when will start coming the tranche 5 Rafale. The PEA INCAS (Insert New Additional Capacity for SPECTRA), notified last September by the DGA to Thales Airborne Systems and MBDA, is indeed preparing SPECTRA 5T. The real challenge, according to Thales engineers, is to think, not only about the original equipment on board the new tranche 5 Rafale, but also about the retrofit in the framework of a prospective site to put this future new standard for the rest of the fleet including the first Rafale delivered.

An ambition much more delicate than it seems at first glance, because it need to evolve SPECTRA within acceptable limits - volume, mass, energy, cable, Interactions - by the first Rafale series, although their architecture has been conceived in the late 1980s. This requires, according to Thales officials, treasures of cunning and ingenuity. We must keep reaching an extreme interchangeability. Because the great longevity planned for the Rafale actually complicates the task. One need to design systems, allowing them the opportunity to integrate with minimal impact new technologies able to cope with post-2020 or even 2030 threats, still not easily discernible. As now formulated, the fundamental objective of SPECTRA 5T is therefore to be able to detect, even further, more discreet and even furtive threats.
How? by integrating, at the air entrances more efficient EM broadband receptors. Unlike current SPECTRA, with receivers still mixing analog and digital, those of SPECTRA 5T will be entirely digital. Which, incidentally, will facilitate transport and data management. More, added to future new processing algorithms, this increased "digitization" of equipement should provide a significant improvement in terms of sensitivity and angular measurement, with the added advantage of greater receptor compactness . This will allow, with equal volume, to much more! It is certainly delicate, given the sensitivity of the topic,to enter further into the details of improvements in matter of performance and functionality. But it must be very clear: according to Thales engineers, it is a revolution for technology and capability at the same level as it is for the RBE2 Radar evolving from a passive PESA antenna to the active AESA.

The GaN revolution.

This "revolution" also relates to jamming equipment for the future SPECTRA 5T. These transmitters, integrated at the top of the drift and the forward fuselage, near the apices and before the canard, will benefit from the integration of a new technology the gallium nitride (GaN) to replace the arsenide gallium currently used. The use of this broadband semiconductor, still unique within the European Union, very hard and with a very high thermal capacity, is expected to reduce significantly the electrical consumer and heating for a given power. The solid state antennas will provide a much greater lens precision with a very narrow emission beam. Note that to avoid any risk of external pressure on eventual Rafale export sales, the GaN components, like the gallium arsenide modules already used for the new RBE2 active antenna ,will be produced in France by a factory of the Franco-German company ( EADS / Thales joint-venture) UMS. The Thales engineers are also working to modify the current distribution between reception and jamming functions in SPECTRA. With, for example, the idea to integrate, for SPECTRA 5T, a multisignal RF receiver within the jammers. Viewing similarities between jammers and receivers components, such an approach would be technologically feasible and, potentially, would provide interesting synergies. Nevertheless, the collocation of such equipment would introduce real technical difficulties - EM compatibility -, though perfectly manageable. This pass, to avoid to perturb the receiver with collocated jamming emission, by appealing different waveforms for each equipment, with a wider range of frequence than currently employed on Spectra and with the implementation of active filters. In contrast, the locations and volumes vested to such equipment would remain unchanged from today. No way to modify anything in the aerodynamics of the aircraft or to impact the structure of the cell. Similarly, these changes would occur at energy isoconsumption [same energy consumption]. Asked whether the integration of tracted active EM decoys - in use with F/A-18E/F, B-1 and Typhoon - could be an interesting track for SPECTRA 5T, Thales engineers , as also the operationals, replied by expressing doubts about the broad effectiveness of the formula. It is difficult to re-roll the lure in flight and it must be dropped before landing. Hooked from a certain distance behind the carrier, it could allow a foreign fire control to recognize it as a decoy and, paradoxically, to facilitate the detection of the real target. Certainly, the tracted active EM jammer provides good angular jamming. But the SPECTRA ability to use jamming in cooperative mode - mode still insufficiently cleared by the operationals - is expected to balance the absence of tracted decoys on the Rafale.What is almost certain, however, is that SPECTRA 5T will implement dropped active EM lures . They should be able to simulate the RCS of a Rafale and to track, thanks to the deployment of a small wing, a trajectory similar to the simulation of an airplane. This had already been the subject of studies and demonstration trials during the 1990s. It seems that the expected performance of these "dropped" lures are higher than those tracted. Nevertheless, studies will be launched to assess the interest of the latter. The carriage of additional IR cartridges on some external payload points is also expected. Although the PEA INCAS has been notified in November 2009, the study of the SPECTRA 5T architecture system have already made good progress. Suitable demonstrators for various equipment should begin to work next year. J.-L ®

Acho que o General comentou alguma coisa na entrevista.
Que cada um tire suas conclusões.

Abraços

IhIhIhI la vamos nós de novo... me da o Link, vou começar a pesquisar desde já, assim pra dissolver os ataques preventivos dos "outros"...

[Penguin]

Isso em um Tranche 5?!

[AlbertoRJ]

Isso em um Tranche 5?!

Conforme eu entendi, alguma coisa no F5, outras poderão ser ou serão antecipadas no F4, no MLU e outras já estariam sendo oferecidas. Faltou mencionar aí as evoluções no M88.
O governo francês está comprometido com o Rafale, apesar da crise.
Agora me diga se não vale a pena o Brasil participar de pelo menos uma parte desse desenvolvimento.

[]'s

[Largomoco]

Isso em um Tranche 5?

no tranche here, its rafale, no eurofighter, that will not see the tranche 3b

Rafale is actually produced in F3+ version, F4 sooner in 2014 if uae deal come through!