Clemenceau

[zorrilho]

O que foi feito do Nae francês Clemenceau, irmão gêmeo do São Paulo?

[César]

Acho que ele virou sucata como o 25 de Mayo, ou então virou um museu flutuante como o Minas Gerais....

Que fim inglório

Abraços

César

[Alitson]

Foi colocado na reserva, por volta de 2012 o novo Nae francês devera passar por manutenção, assim neste periodo o Clemenceau voltara a ativa.

[Slip Junior]

(...) ou então virou um museu flutuante como o Minas Gerais....

Só se foi em outro mundo porque nesse aqui o Minas Gerais também virou sucata.

Abraços

[P44]

Acho que continua em Toulon,

mas o melhor é procurar em http://www.netmarine.net

[JLRC]

Foi colocado na reserva, por volta de 2012 o novo Nae francês devera passar por manutenção, assim neste periodo o Clemenceau voltara a ativa.

Desculpe Alitson, mas a sua afirmação não tem ponta de verdade. O R 98 Clemenceau, foi desarmado em 01-10-97 e posteriormente vendido para sucata, para ser desmantelado. Julgo que o contrato previa o seu desmantelamento na Ásia, mas ao constatar-se que ele estava a ser rebocado para a Turquia, a Marinha francesa retomou posse do navio. O problema dele não poder ser desmantelado na Turquia, tem a ver com as leis referentes ao desmantelamento de navios com amianto. Até há pouco tempo, o Clemenceau encontrava-se em Toulon, despido de sistemas e a enferrujar, à espera de saber onde vai ser desmantelado.
Cumpts

[César]

(...) ou então virou um museu flutuante como o Minas Gerais....

Só se foi em outro mundo porque nesse aqui o Minas Gerais também virou sucata.

Abraços

Sério?

Ele não tinha sido vendido pra aquela galerinha lá da China pra ser exibido como um museu flutuante? Eu lembro até que essa história deu em uma apelação desesperada por parte dos Britânicos, que o queriam. Acho que até tinham feito um site pra isso("save the veagence", acho que era esse o nome).

Explica melhor a história aí, Slip

Falou!

César

[Vinicius Pimenta]

Ô César, como assim você não sabe que o Minas virou sucata? Acho que já colocaram até fotos do Minas sendo desmontado aqui no fórum. Ele foi vendido para um sucateiro indiano que já o desmantelou.

[Alcantara]

Depois de muitas idas e vindas, o ex-NAeL Minas Gerais (A-11) foi vendido, como sucata, para um armador chinês pelo valor de 4 milhões de dólares. Depois de breves reparos no dique-seco, o navio deixou sua base pela última vez em 09 de fevereiro de 2004, rebocado pelo navio russo "Kapitan Martyshkin". Seu destino foi um desmanche em Alang, na Índia. Foi uma pena. Poderia ter sido aproveitado na ativa como porta helicópteros ou até mesmo como museu, aqui no Brasil mesmo, depois de retirado de serviço. Mas como orçamento, que é bom, nada...



Foto do ex-NAeL (Navio-Aeródromo Ligeiro) Minas Gerais (A-11), quando deixava pela última vez o Arsenal de Marinha do Rio de Janeiro.
(Fonte: http://www.infomarmb.hpg.ig.com.br/Boletim2004.1.htm)

[César]

Ô César, como assim você não sabe que o Minas virou sucata? Acho que já colocaram até fotos do Minas sendo desmontado aqui no fórum. Ele foi vendido para um sucateiro indiano que já o desmantelou.

Cara, eu acho que eu estou ficando velho. Eu tinha certeza que ele tinha sido vendido pra virar um museu flutuante!

Nossa Senhora, acho que eu preciso ir num médico

Falou!

César

[Spectral]

Vai uma grane confusão sobre o Clemanceau.

Notícias recentes:

he old aircraft carrier could leave for India with more asbestos than announced.

by Eliane PATRIARCA

Tuesday 15 March 2005 (Liberation - 06:00)

Asbestos are in all 60-year-old warships. Some still go to sea. Like the old aircraft carrier Clemenceau, launched in 1957, decommissioned in 1997, today retired and a legal star. The civil court in Paris must today decide on the request made last Friday by two groups to stop the exportation of the ship to India before her decontamination is complete.

Ban Asbestos France, the French branch of the international network for the stopping of abestos, and Andeva (Association for the Defese of Victims of Asbestos) say that sending her is illegal because it contravenes several different laws, notably the Bâle Convention on the control of cross-border movements of hazardous waste. But it is the particular "irresponsibility" and negligence of the French government which these associations deplore. "If we fight to stop the decontamination in India, it is because this is going to expose the uninformed and unprotected workers there to the dangers of asbestos. Our action is in solidarity with the associations and companies which refused the arrival of Clemenceau without decontamination," explains Annie Thebaud-Mony of Ban Asbestos. The association recalls that asbestos are not banned in India and says that "this day, laborers are moving this material without specialized equipment or legislative protection." Before the court, the lawyer for the associations has denounced the secrecy that surrounds this case. One secret was confirmed by revelations in Libération about Technopure, the company in charge of the decontamination of Clemenceau at Toulon.

The deal reached with the government last June with German company SDI planned for partial decontamination of the ship at Toulon, effected by the subcontractor Technopure. The subcontractor today is asking itself many questions - primarily about the tonnage of asbestos contained in the ship. According to SDI, Clemenceau should contain 220 metric tons of asbestos, of which 90% should be removed at Toulon, and 10%, about 22 metric tons, in India. But Technopure claims to have removed "75 to 80 metric tons of asbestos plus 180 metric tons of contaminated metal."

"We have to work without knowing exactly how much asbestos are in the ship," complains Technopure, "because there was never an asbestos evaluation made on the Clemenceau." The company says that it would have removed even more if SDI had wanted to do so...and had agreed to pay the price. "With these ships, all the decks are asbestos. For the Clemenceau and her 30,000 square meters of deck, this represents about 180 metric tons!" But the contract with SDI excluded all work on the decks, which haven't prevented the ship from being taken to sea.

Second question: the decontamination training of Indian personnel. To the Ministry of Defense, and likewise to SDI, you explain that the scrapping of Clemenceau represents a pilot project: work for the creation in India of proper procedures for decontamination and scrapping that conform to Western standards. According to their lawyers, "the Indian subcontractors chosen are certified ISO 9001 (management), 14001 (environmental), and 18001 (control, health and security.)" "It is the first time that you pay as much attention to all these standards," he was assured, engaging the "transfer of technologies" between France and India. According to SDI, representatives of the Indian company who had come to France to familiarize themselves with the decontamination yard in Toulon, Technopure and SDI were then assured control of the work in India. An ideal scenario for North-South cooperation, which the Ministry of Defense had vouched for to the plaintiffs last month by mail. But, last 15 February, as the end of the work approached, Technopure wished to denounce the clause in the contract binding themselves to SDI under which they were required to inform and familiarize the Indian representatives. "We had been required, in our contract, to pay the salaries of a group of five Indians during the month and a half for effective training. But we have never seen a single Indian representative in the yard," says Technopure.

The company is also required, by contract, to leave the decontamination equipment aboard destined for Indian personnel - masks, disposable overalls, first-aid kits... "No one has told us for how many workers," complain Technopure, who say they have not been able to obtain working plans for the decontamination in India. "We have urged SDI to stop this unseriousness. In these conditions, we weren't able to respect our engagements."

Technopure is about to complete its decontamination work, begun in November, and is going to return the ship to the government this week. But it cannot confirm how much asbestos remain aboard, leaving the understanding that it is much more than 22 metric tons.

http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=282552 (original em francês)

by Eliane PATRIARCA

Wednesday 16 March 2005 (Liberation - 06:00)

Are the judges of the civil court in Paris mind-readers? One believes that at the reading of their decision brief on the case of Clemenceau, the Navy's old aircraft carrier. The president of the court has in effect declared himself incompetent. On the strength of a contract which he has never seen, he must decide on the request stopping the sending of the ship to India, where her decontamination is to be completed. "The contract through which the French government has committed - within the framework of its prerogatives of public responsibility - to SDI the work of decontaminating the aircraft carrier Clemenceau is in consequence of a necessary objective under the public law," says the summary judgement.

"Disastrous." The groups which demanded the blocking of the ship's exportation, the French branch of Ban Asbestos and Andeva, are thus implicitly returned to an administrative court. These associations raised themselves against "the disastrous conditions in which the removal of asbestos have resulted in India" and the risks of "serious harm to the health of Indian laborers."

The mysterious contract, which the lawyers for SDI and the government refused to produce at the hearing, is that which has linked since 23 June 2004 the French government and the consortium SDI, subsidiary of the German steel giant Thyssen Krupp. According to the statements of this company and the government, SDI would be committed to effect, through its subcontractor Technopure, the main work of decontamination of Clemenceau at Toulon, the rest of the asbestos before her removal to India, where it is also to manage the scrapping of the ship and the sale of the steel.

Yesterday, Ban Asbestos France and Andeva decided to make an appeal. "We want to shed all the light we can," explains their lawyer, François Lafforgue. "Obviously someone is hiding something from us," he added, making allusion to the declarations of Technopure published yesterday in Liberation.

"No Indians." SDI and the government have always explained that Indian personnel would have been trained to carry out the decontamination according to French standards, at Toulon by Technopure, this undertaking before and after meant to assure management of the Indian yard with SDI. An exemplary approach...on paper. Because Technopure preferred to denounce, on 15 February, the clause in its contract by which it was charged with training Indian personnel, as it was unable to obtain the means by which to carry out this engagement. "We never saw a single Indian in the yard," says the management of Technopure. This enterprise, which is to keep the decontamination work on French soil, explains moreover that much more asbestos would have been removed, contrary to the statements of the government and SDI. According to Technopure, "only crumbly asbestos which was found in the machinery spaces and the two catapults" was removed. Remaining aboard is the rest of the large quantity of non-crumbly asbestos aboard which could have been removed without disturbing the structure of the ship.

François Lafforque reminds us that another procedure aimed at preventing the departure of Clemenceau is underway, submitted by the Jussieu Anti-Asbestos Committee before the administrative court.

http://www.liberation.fr/page.php?Article=282768 (original em francês)

[P44]

(...) ou então virou um museu flutuante como o Minas Gerais....

Só se foi em outro mundo porque nesse aqui o Minas Gerais também virou sucata.

Abraços

Sério?

Ele não tinha sido vendido pra aquela galerinha lá da China pra ser exibido como um museu flutuante? Eu lembro até que essa história deu em uma apelação desesperada por parte dos Britânicos, que o queriam. Acho que até tinham feito um site pra isso("save the veagence", acho que era esse o nome).

Explica melhor a história aí, Slip

Falou!

César

Vcs não estão confundido essa história da CHINA com o VARIAG, da ex-URSS, que foi vendido á China para servir de "casino flutuante", e está acostado numa Base Naval Chinesa

[César]

Não P44. Na verdade eu nem sabia da história desse Variag hehe

Eu tinha certeza de que a China(ou uma empresa chinesa) tinha comprado o velho Minas com esse fim, e que essa história havia dado em uma disputa enorme entre os Chineses e os britânicos(já que o A-11 Minas Gerais era o HMS "Veagence" da RN antes de vir para cá).

Mas pelo que estou vendo, eu estava errado. ÊÊÊ César, seu velho caduco.

Estou ficando que nem o Paisano, uhuahuahuha!!! Brincadeira ai cara

Abraços

César

[Paisano]

Mas pelo que estou vendo, eu estava errado. ÊÊÊ César, seu velho caduco.

Estou ficando que nem o Paisano, uhuahuahuha!!! Brincadeira ai cara

César... César...

[André Carvalho]

Já tinha colocado noutro tópico, mas aqui ficam os links para as derradeiras fotos do Minas ...

http://www.hms.vengeance.btinternet.co.uk/farewell.htm
http://www.hms.vengeance.btinternet.co.uk/farewell2.htm