Fórum Defesa Brasil

Túlio escreveu:Não sei, pelo que entendi os Rafales podem unir seus SPECTREs em data-link, deve dar trabalho, mesmo a um GROWLER...

De qualquer modo, Rafale ou SH para mim está más do que bueno, a vizinhança vai se borrar toda...

Penguin escreveu:

Túlio escreveu:Não sei, pelo que entendi os Rafales podem unir seus SPECTREs em data-link, deve dar trabalho, mesmo a um GROWLER...

De qualquer modo, Rafale ou SH para mim está más do que bueno, a vizinhança vai se borrar toda...

O que impede os demais de unir seus sensores via data link? Aliás, isso já ocorre.
O que impede diversos Growler de se "linkar"?!

O fato é que mesmo com boa vontade e malabarismos psuedo-ideológicos, não se pode compara 2t com 250kg.

Se pode sim, comparar Spectre com IDECM, com Preatorian e com EWS-39:









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AlbertoRJ escreveu:

Penguin escreveu: O que impede os demais de unir seus sensores via data link? Aliás, isso já ocorre.
O que impede diversos Growler de se "linkar"?!

O fato é que mesmo com boa vontade e malabarismos psuedo-ideológicos, não se pode compara 2t com 250kg.

Se pode sim, comparar Spectre com IDECM, com Preatorian e com EWS-39:









[]s

Aí é que está! Foi o que falei sobre filosofia de emprego. O Growler não é empregado em esquadrilhas de Growlers.

Agora, se todas essas suites são iguais eu não sei. Só sei que tem uns que só entram no TO depois da chuva de Tomahaws e na companhia de avião tipo Growler...

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Penguin escreveu:

AlbertoRJ escreveu: Aí é que está! Foi o que falei sobre filosofia de emprego. O Growler não é empregado em esquadrilhas de Growlers.

Agora, se todas essas suites são iguais eu não sei. Só sei que tem uns que só entram no TO depois da chuva de Tomahaws e na companhia de avião tipo Growler...

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Iguais não se pode dizer. Mas possuem pesos similares, logo não devem diferir muito, considerendo que os países citado possuem níveis tecnológicos similares. A menos que algum descobriu alguma mágica que iguale 250kg a 2t.

Que disse que mais mais de um Growler não podem ser empregados em uma missãu?! Que disse que Typhoon, F/A-18E, Gripen e A-29 não se comunicam via datalink?!

Relatos detalhados publicados na RFA não dizem isso.
Os Rafale atacaram primeiramente em Bengazi no litoral.
Atques em profundidade, só depois do terreno limpo pelos "especialistas".

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(...)
Back Off

Of course, the United States today is just about the only country that can afford scores of dedicated electronic- attack aircraft and the cast of thousands of highly trained experts who support them. "The US has specialized EW aircraft that cover an area and so take some of the burden off the strike aircraft in terms of self- protection." said Dov Granot, business development manager for the Elisra Group (Bene Beraq, Israel). The Israeli Air Force favors a system where select aircraft in a strike package are equipped with escort- jamming pods. "Israel's philosophy is that an aircraft needs to be able to protect itself from start to finish, from take-off through landing."

Jean-Philippe Gourion, deputy director of strategic planning for Thales Airborne Systems (Paris, France), said Thales is working on an escort-jamming concept in which dedicated platforms and crews would be replaced by a combination of integrated systems featuring a solid-state, phased-array jammer with very high transmitted power and real-time multi-beam steering. This would be fitted in an automatic pod carried by a multirole fighter for the stand-in/escort jamming mission. Since 1993, Thales has been developing its Carbone offensive jammer demonstrator under contract to the French military procurement agency. According to Gourion, the Carbone is significantly more powerful than existing or upgraded offensive-jamming pods. Carbone also draws on Thales' digital receivers and real-time geolocation algorithms, such as those implemented in the Spectra EW system for the Rafale aircraft.

A fighter aircraft carrying a pod-mounted phased-array jammer would have the ability to loiter at the periphery of the threat area, but not necessarily in line with the flight path of the strikers. Once the strike package is about to enter the threat area the electronic attack aircraft is alerted by datalink to commence jamming through the secondary or scattered lobes of the threat emitters. Thus, the enemy would remain unaware of the direction of the strike package's arrival. Gourion pointed out that there would be some burden during the mission-planning phase to ensure that timing, waypoints, and jamming duration are synchronized. "In fact, if your mission planning is excellent, then you are not obliged to use a datalink or otherwise transmit between the strikers and jammer aircraft," he said.

Another benefit of this approach to stand-in/escort jamming is that the electronic-attack aircraft does not have the same demands on its self-protection jammers, thus eliminating the potential for interference. In fact, Gourion questioned the wisdom of even attempting to operate electronic-attack and self- protection systems on the same aircraft at the same time. "Frankly speaking, I don't think that it would be a very good idea to use stand-in jamming tactics other than those that attack side or scattered lobes at some distance," he said. "If the electronic-attack aircraft is loitering at very low altitude somewhere in a relatively safe place quite close to the danger zone, then you can decide at a given instant to pop up and begin your jamming job."
(...)

AlbertoRJ escreveu:[ quote="Penguin"]

AlbertoRJ escreveu: Aí é que está! Foi o que falei sobre filosofia de emprego. O Growler não é empregado em esquadrilhas de Growlers.

Agora, se todas essas suites são iguais eu não sei. Só sei que tem uns que só entram no TO depois da chuva de Tomahaws e na companhia de avião tipo Growler...

[]'s

Iguais não se pode dizer. Mas possuem pesos similares, logo não devem diferir muito, considerendo que os países citado possuem níveis tecnológicos similares. A menos que algum descobriu alguma mágica que iguale 250kg a 2t.

Que disse que mais mais de um Growler não podem ser empregados em uma missãu?! Que disse que Typhoon, F/A-18E, Gripen e A-29 não se comunicam via datalink?!

Relatos detalhados publicados na RFA não dizem isso.
Os Rafale atacaram primeiramente em Bengazi no litoral.
Atques em profundidade, só depois do terreno limpo pelos "especialistas".

[]s

AlbertoRJ escreveu:Santiago, acredito que você já leu esse artigo mas não custa repetir um trecho:

(...)
Back Off

Of course, the United States today is just about the only country that can afford scores of dedicated electronic- attack aircraft and the cast of thousands of highly trained experts who support them. "The US has specialized EW aircraft that cover an area and so take some of the burden off the strike aircraft in terms of self- protection." said Dov Granot, business development manager for the Elisra Group (Bene Beraq, Israel). The Israeli Air Force favors a system where select aircraft in a strike package are equipped with escort- jamming pods. "Israel's philosophy is that an aircraft needs to be able to protect itself from start to finish, from take-off through landing."

Jean-Philippe Gourion, deputy director of strategic planning for Thales Airborne Systems (Paris, France), said Thales is working on an escort-jamming concept in which dedicated platforms and crews would be replaced by a combination of integrated systems featuring a solid-state, phased-array jammer with very high transmitted power and real-time multi-beam steering. This would be fitted in an automatic pod carried by a multirole fighter for the stand-in/escort jamming mission. Since 1993, Thales has been developing its Carbone offensive jammer demonstrator under contract to the French military procurement agency. According to Gourion, the Carbone is significantly more powerful than existing or upgraded offensive-jamming pods. Carbone also draws on Thales' digital receivers and real-time geolocation algorithms, such as those implemented in the Spectra EW system for the Rafale aircraft.

A fighter aircraft carrying a pod-mounted phased-array jammer would have the ability to loiter at the periphery of the threat area, but not necessarily in line with the flight path of the strikers. Once the strike package is about to enter the threat area the electronic attack aircraft is alerted by datalink to commence jamming through the secondary or scattered lobes of the threat emitters. Thus, the enemy would remain unaware of the direction of the strike package's arrival. Gourion pointed out that there would be some burden during the mission-planning phase to ensure that timing, waypoints, and jamming duration are synchronized. "In fact, if your mission planning is excellent, then you are not obliged to use a datalink or otherwise transmit between the strikers and jammer aircraft," he said.

Another benefit of this approach to stand-in/escort jamming is that the electronic-attack aircraft does not have the same demands on its self-protection jammers, thus eliminating the potential for interference. In fact, Gourion questioned the wisdom of even attempting to operate electronic-attack and self- protection systems on the same aircraft at the same time. "Frankly speaking, I don't think that it would be a very good idea to use stand-in jamming tactics other than those that attack side or scattered lobes at some distance," he said. "If the electronic-attack aircraft is loitering at very low altitude somewhere in a relatively safe place quite close to the danger zone, then you can decide at a given instant to pop up and begin your jamming job."
(...)

I Will Be Your Escort - The operational concept of escort and stand-in jamming is about to change.
http://www.mputtre.com/id16.html

Penguin escreveu:

AlbertoRJ escreveu:Santiago, acredito que você já leu esse artigo mas não custa repetir um trecho:
I Will Be Your Escort - The operational concept of escort and stand-in jamming is about to change.
http://www.mputtre.com/id16.html

E nem vc parece que leu sobre o que de fato aconteceu no 1o dia...



Fonte: RFA No 70, jun/jul 2011

Carlos Mathias escreveu:AN-225 é campeão, acabou!

cb_lima escreveu:

Carlos Mathias escreveu:AN-225 é campeão, acabou!

Sacanagem...

É o Growlãovisky.

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CB_Lima