Mectron
Moderadores: Glauber Prestes, Conselho de Moderação
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Re: Mectron
China Copia o A-Darter
A Mectron tem de abrir o olho com essa venda do MAR-1.
China eyes South African weaponry
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Hong Kong, China — China has had a number of dealings with South African weapons manufacturers over the past decade, most of which have not resulted in actual weapons purchases. However, several recent China-made military technologies bear suspicious resemblances to their South African counterparts.
In 2008, China acquired a fourth-generation air-to-air missile equipped with a thrust-vector control engine. The PL-10, or PL-ASR, is comparable to the U.S.-made AIM-9X air-to-air missile, or AAM.
According to a representative from the South African Denel Group, the PL-ASR is almost a replica of its A-Darter AAM. The Denel representative told the author during an interview in Cape Town that the Chinese had contacted the company in 2001 to explore the possibility of importing fifth-generation A-Darter infrared-guided AAMs, which included a TVC propulsion system and pilot helmet-mounted displays.
In the end, Denel did not sell the technologies to China, which it regards as its key competitor in selling air-to-air missiles on the African market. Company engineers were therefore surprised to find that the Chinese PL-ASR is nearly identical to the A-Darter in exterior structure, tail engine and even the diameter of the missile body.
The company strongly suspects that China reverse-engineered its A-Darter AAM after acquiring its technological materials.
This fits a pattern that China has followed in acquiring military technologies from many sources. When seeking a new technology, China contacts a foreign manufacturer and requests substantial technical information about its product, supposedly with the intent to buy. Instead, Chinese engineers study the materials and imitate the relevant concepts and designs.
Something similar occurred in the course of China’s development of a combat helicopter. In 1996 China and South Africa signed a memorandum to jointly develop a combat helicopter, when China was in the process of building its ZW-10 helicopter.
After being given a focused inspection of the Rooivalk combat helicopter’s subsystems, China wanted to purchase one helicopter from Denel, but the South African company considered the purchase of a single aircraft the equivalent of giving away its technologies. As a result, Denel decided not to sell China the helicopter and the cooperation came to an end.
Another item that appears to have been copied from South Africa is the optical-electronic pod on China’s ZW-9 combat helicopter, which bears a strong resemblance to the Leo-II serial O/E pods produced by the Zeiss Company.
Technical experts from the Zeiss Company told the author that about seven to eight years ago Zeiss exported two sets of an earlier variant of the Leo-II O/E pods to China, intended for use on helicopters. According to the source, the Chinese side explained that they needed a large number of this type of O/E pods for civilian helicopters, and therefore would like to purchase two sets initially for testing purposes. The source said the Chinese took no further action after receiving the test pods.
Currently, both the ZW-10 and the night version, the ZW-9, are equipped with O/E detectors very similar to those on the Leo-II.
China’s interest is not only in the O/E pod technologies used for helicopters. Chinese manufacturers have also engaged in active discussions with South Africa in hopes of acquiring TV video cameras and second-generation thermal imaging cameras used in Denel’s Seeker II unmanned air vehicle surveillance system.
The top military technology that China aspires to acquire from South Africa is without doubt the unmanned air vehicle. China’s New Era Group Corporation had several rounds of negotiations with Denel on the possibility of producing in China two types of Denel UAVs, which were on display at the 2006 Zhuhai Air Show, called the Golden Eagle and the Seeker II.
China hopes to obtain the technologies to assemble these two UAVs domestically. However, according to a source from the Denel Group, negotiations on the UAV deals have come to a halt and the company has decided that unless substantial progress is made on these negotiations, the company no longer wants to spend time dealing with the Chinese.
Denel had a similar experience in trying to negotiate a deal with Chinese company Norinco for its Mokopa anti-tank missiles. The Chinese company expressed an interest in importing Denel’s technologies, but once again the negotiations ended with no result.
Since 2007, Norinco has attempted to contact the Denel Group again, saying that it wants to import the company’s G5 155-mm howitzer ammunition handling system. But Denel is not eager to enter into an agreement with China on this project; Chinese-made 155-mm howitzers have already appeared in quite a number of countries in Northern Africa, including Algeria, Sudan and Egypt.
The source from Denel did disclose that the company has successfully completed a deal with China for its 35-mm multirole machine gun. This technology in fact was exported to China 10 years ago. China seems to have upgraded this 35-mm gun to an air-defense machine gun.
China’s New Era Group Corporation has also been negotiating with Denel for the transfer of African Eagle UAV technologies. The Chinese introductory brochure of the cooperation program claims that the African Eagle UAV is capable of taking a payload of 500 kilograms, which could be six Mokopa anti-tank missiles or two Umbani MK 81 precision-guided bombs. The theoretical combat radius of the African Eagle is 750 kilometers.
China also hopes to obtain the South African Angel high-altitude and high-speed UAV attacker system. This attacker UAV is capable of carrying precision-guided weapons and attacking targets 1,400 kilometers away. The UAV is also capable of carrying A-Darter AAMs to launch unmanned aerial attacks.
The Angel attacker and reconnaissance UAV is equipped with aperture radar and is capable of conducting tactical reconnaissance missions. It can also be fitted with Mokopa active laser-guided anti-tank missiles to attack armored combat groups.
Nonetheless, the source from Denel disclosed that no substantial progress has been made on this project, indicating it may end up as one more failed deal. It remains to be seen whether China’s latest explorations with the company will yield technological information it can convert to its own purposes, however.
--
(Andrei Chang is editor-in-chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto, Canada.)
A Mectron tem de abrir o olho com essa venda do MAR-1.
China eyes South African weaponry
Font size:
Hong Kong, China — China has had a number of dealings with South African weapons manufacturers over the past decade, most of which have not resulted in actual weapons purchases. However, several recent China-made military technologies bear suspicious resemblances to their South African counterparts.
In 2008, China acquired a fourth-generation air-to-air missile equipped with a thrust-vector control engine. The PL-10, or PL-ASR, is comparable to the U.S.-made AIM-9X air-to-air missile, or AAM.
According to a representative from the South African Denel Group, the PL-ASR is almost a replica of its A-Darter AAM. The Denel representative told the author during an interview in Cape Town that the Chinese had contacted the company in 2001 to explore the possibility of importing fifth-generation A-Darter infrared-guided AAMs, which included a TVC propulsion system and pilot helmet-mounted displays.
In the end, Denel did not sell the technologies to China, which it regards as its key competitor in selling air-to-air missiles on the African market. Company engineers were therefore surprised to find that the Chinese PL-ASR is nearly identical to the A-Darter in exterior structure, tail engine and even the diameter of the missile body.
The company strongly suspects that China reverse-engineered its A-Darter AAM after acquiring its technological materials.
This fits a pattern that China has followed in acquiring military technologies from many sources. When seeking a new technology, China contacts a foreign manufacturer and requests substantial technical information about its product, supposedly with the intent to buy. Instead, Chinese engineers study the materials and imitate the relevant concepts and designs.
Something similar occurred in the course of China’s development of a combat helicopter. In 1996 China and South Africa signed a memorandum to jointly develop a combat helicopter, when China was in the process of building its ZW-10 helicopter.
After being given a focused inspection of the Rooivalk combat helicopter’s subsystems, China wanted to purchase one helicopter from Denel, but the South African company considered the purchase of a single aircraft the equivalent of giving away its technologies. As a result, Denel decided not to sell China the helicopter and the cooperation came to an end.
Another item that appears to have been copied from South Africa is the optical-electronic pod on China’s ZW-9 combat helicopter, which bears a strong resemblance to the Leo-II serial O/E pods produced by the Zeiss Company.
Technical experts from the Zeiss Company told the author that about seven to eight years ago Zeiss exported two sets of an earlier variant of the Leo-II O/E pods to China, intended for use on helicopters. According to the source, the Chinese side explained that they needed a large number of this type of O/E pods for civilian helicopters, and therefore would like to purchase two sets initially for testing purposes. The source said the Chinese took no further action after receiving the test pods.
Currently, both the ZW-10 and the night version, the ZW-9, are equipped with O/E detectors very similar to those on the Leo-II.
China’s interest is not only in the O/E pod technologies used for helicopters. Chinese manufacturers have also engaged in active discussions with South Africa in hopes of acquiring TV video cameras and second-generation thermal imaging cameras used in Denel’s Seeker II unmanned air vehicle surveillance system.
The top military technology that China aspires to acquire from South Africa is without doubt the unmanned air vehicle. China’s New Era Group Corporation had several rounds of negotiations with Denel on the possibility of producing in China two types of Denel UAVs, which were on display at the 2006 Zhuhai Air Show, called the Golden Eagle and the Seeker II.
China hopes to obtain the technologies to assemble these two UAVs domestically. However, according to a source from the Denel Group, negotiations on the UAV deals have come to a halt and the company has decided that unless substantial progress is made on these negotiations, the company no longer wants to spend time dealing with the Chinese.
Denel had a similar experience in trying to negotiate a deal with Chinese company Norinco for its Mokopa anti-tank missiles. The Chinese company expressed an interest in importing Denel’s technologies, but once again the negotiations ended with no result.
Since 2007, Norinco has attempted to contact the Denel Group again, saying that it wants to import the company’s G5 155-mm howitzer ammunition handling system. But Denel is not eager to enter into an agreement with China on this project; Chinese-made 155-mm howitzers have already appeared in quite a number of countries in Northern Africa, including Algeria, Sudan and Egypt.
The source from Denel did disclose that the company has successfully completed a deal with China for its 35-mm multirole machine gun. This technology in fact was exported to China 10 years ago. China seems to have upgraded this 35-mm gun to an air-defense machine gun.
China’s New Era Group Corporation has also been negotiating with Denel for the transfer of African Eagle UAV technologies. The Chinese introductory brochure of the cooperation program claims that the African Eagle UAV is capable of taking a payload of 500 kilograms, which could be six Mokopa anti-tank missiles or two Umbani MK 81 precision-guided bombs. The theoretical combat radius of the African Eagle is 750 kilometers.
China also hopes to obtain the South African Angel high-altitude and high-speed UAV attacker system. This attacker UAV is capable of carrying precision-guided weapons and attacking targets 1,400 kilometers away. The UAV is also capable of carrying A-Darter AAMs to launch unmanned aerial attacks.
The Angel attacker and reconnaissance UAV is equipped with aperture radar and is capable of conducting tactical reconnaissance missions. It can also be fitted with Mokopa active laser-guided anti-tank missiles to attack armored combat groups.
Nonetheless, the source from Denel disclosed that no substantial progress has been made on this project, indicating it may end up as one more failed deal. It remains to be seen whether China’s latest explorations with the company will yield technological information it can convert to its own purposes, however.
--
(Andrei Chang is editor-in-chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto, Canada.)
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"There's More Than One of Everything"
"There's More Than One of Everything"
- Brasileiro
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Re: Mectron
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O nosso vai ser melhor
![Cool 8-]](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
Vide os carros, vide os brinquedos, vide os relógios!
abraços]
----------------
amor fati
amor fati
- tykuna
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Re: Mectron
O míssil não estava em produção? O fato de o giroscópio ainda estar sendo desenvolvido não é contraditório ao fato de a FAB já estar recebendo o mesmo? ou seria uma peço modular que poderia receber evoluções e apenas precisaria ser trocada?
Desculpa a várias perguntas, é porque fiquei confuso com a notícia.
Sds,
http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/capa/index.php?mostra=2152
Desculpa a várias perguntas, é porque fiquei confuso com a notícia.
Sds,
http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/capa/index.php?mostra=2152

-
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Re: Mectron
Tudo certo tykuna. O míssil está em regime de produção LRIP_Low Rate Initial Production, Produção Inicial em Ritmo Lento.tykuna escreveu:O míssil não estava em produção? O fato de o giroscópio ainda estar sendo desenvolvido não é contraditório ao fato de a FAB já estar recebendo o mesmo? ou seria uma peço modular que poderia receber evoluções e apenas precisaria ser trocada?
Desculpa a várias perguntas, é porque fiquei confuso com a notícia.
Sds,
http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/capa/index.php?mostra=2152
Os mísseis que a FAB está recebendo(aprox 10 unidades até out/2008) estão na verdade sendo testados em desenvolvimento final.
Os sistemas do MAR-1 são sim modulares, o sistema Inercial usado é um similar importado. O nacional estava enfrentando alguns problemas financeiros(não técnicos) que foram equacionados com a venda para o Paquistão.
O sistema BGT deve ter sua homologação nos próximos 70 dias.
Só há 2 tipos de navios: os submarinos e os alvos...
Armam-se homens com as melhores armas.
Armam-se Submarinos com os melhores homens.
Os sábios PENSAM
Os Inteligentes COPIAM
Os Idiotas PLANTAM e os
Os Imbecis FINANCIAM...
Armam-se homens com as melhores armas.
Armam-se Submarinos com os melhores homens.
Os sábios PENSAM
Os Inteligentes COPIAM
Os Idiotas PLANTAM e os
Os Imbecis FINANCIAM...
-
- Sênior
- Mensagens: 1537
- Registrado em: Sex Mai 20, 2005 6:25 pm
- Localização: Vitória - ES - Brasil
Re: Mectron
Olá Walter,cicloneprojekt escreveu:Tudo certo tykuna. O míssil está em regime de produção LRIP_Low Rate Initial Production, Produção Inicial em Ritmo Lento.tykuna escreveu:O míssil não estava em produção? O fato de o giroscópio ainda estar sendo desenvolvido não é contraditório ao fato de a FAB já estar recebendo o mesmo? ou seria uma peço modular que poderia receber evoluções e apenas precisaria ser trocada?
Desculpa a várias perguntas, é porque fiquei confuso com a notícia.
Sds,
http://www.fab.mil.br/portal/capa/index.php?mostra=2152
Os mísseis que a FAB está recebendo(aprox 10 unidades até out/2008) estão na verdade sendo testados em desenvolvimento final.
Os sistemas do MAR-1 são sim modulares, o sistema Inercial usado é um similar importado. O nacional estava enfrentando alguns problemas financeiros(não técnicos) que foram equacionados com a venda para o Paquistão.
O sistema BGT deve ter sua homologação nos próximos 70 dias.
Valeu pelas informações.
Só para ressaltar, é normal ter todas as fases para produtos militares :
- pesquisa;
- desenvolvimento;
- protótipos;
- lotes de pré-produção (a maioria dos testes são feitos até essa fase, congelando a parte de hardware e boa parte de software);
- produção em ritmo lento (com uso inicial operacional pela força armada cliente);
- produção em escala.
Totalizando alguns anos e muitos milhões. No Brasil não é diferente.
Farei de tudo para ir à LAAD 2009 e ver o MAR-1, MAA-1B, etc.
Abraços,
Roberto
- caixeiro
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Re: Mectron
Andando Atoa na Internet achei essas artes do Set de armas nacional
para aqueles que gostam
site : http://forum.combatace.com/lofiversion/ ... 24566.html
MAA-1A Piranha – Míssil de curto alcance guiado por calor .
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MAA-2 Piranha 2 – Míssil de médio alcance guiado por radar (equivalente ao AIM-120 AMRAAM)
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MAR-1 – Míssil anti-radar (equivalente ao AGM-88 HARM)
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MAM-1 – Míssil anti-navio ( equivalente ao AGM-84 Harpoon)
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MAS-1 – Míssil anti-tanque (equivalente ao AGM-114 Hellfire)
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MAT-1 – Míssil ar-superfície (equivalente ao AGM-65 Maverick)
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BAS-1 – Bomba laser (equivalente a AGM-62 Walleye)
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para aqueles que gostam
site : http://forum.combatace.com/lofiversion/ ... 24566.html
MAA-1A Piranha – Míssil de curto alcance guiado por calor .

MAA-2 Piranha 2 – Míssil de médio alcance guiado por radar (equivalente ao AIM-120 AMRAAM)

MAR-1 – Míssil anti-radar (equivalente ao AGM-88 HARM)

MAM-1 – Míssil anti-navio ( equivalente ao AGM-84 Harpoon)

MAS-1 – Míssil anti-tanque (equivalente ao AGM-114 Hellfire)
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MAT-1 – Míssil ar-superfície (equivalente ao AGM-65 Maverick)

BAS-1 – Bomba laser (equivalente a AGM-62 Walleye)

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"There's More Than One of Everything"
"There's More Than One of Everything"
- Luiz Bastos
- Sênior
- Mensagens: 1842
- Registrado em: Qui Out 06, 2005 12:40 pm
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- Contato:
- Immortal Horgh
- Sênior
- Mensagens: 7038
- Registrado em: Qui Nov 22, 2007 1:59 am
Re: Mectron
Essa do MAA-1B ser equivalente ao AMRAAM, já comprometeu tudo
[ ]s





[ ]s
Slavsya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye,
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot,
Znamya sovetskoye, znamya narodnoye
Pust' ot pobedy k pobede vedyot!
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot,
Znamya sovetskoye, znamya narodnoye
Pust' ot pobedy k pobede vedyot!
- Glauber Prestes
- Moderador
- Mensagens: 8408
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Re: Mectron
Mano, é o MAA-2!!!! Nosso projeto ultrassecreto (!!!) de míssil BVR. É um híbrido de piranha A, piranha B, Derby, R-530, Sidewinder B, Sidewinder L, e Magic II.Immortal Horgh escreveu:Essa do MAA-1B ser equivalente ao AMRAAM, já comprometeu tudo![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
[ ]s
http://www.tireoide.org.br/tireoidite-de-hashimoto/
Cuidado com os sintomas.
Você é responsável pelo ambiente e a qualidade do fórum que participa. Faça sua parte.
Cuidado com os sintomas.
Você é responsável pelo ambiente e a qualidade do fórum que participa. Faça sua parte.
- Immortal Horgh
- Sênior
- Mensagens: 7038
- Registrado em: Qui Nov 22, 2007 1:59 am
Re: Mectron
Míssil frankenstein
[ ]s








[ ]s
Slavsya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye,
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot,
Znamya sovetskoye, znamya narodnoye
Pust' ot pobedy k pobede vedyot!
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot,
Znamya sovetskoye, znamya narodnoye
Pust' ot pobedy k pobede vedyot!
-
- Sênior
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- Registrado em: Sáb Jun 18, 2005 10:26 pm
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Re: Mectron
Senhores esse "MAA-2 equivalente so AIM 120 C5" existiu/existe apenas em esboço desde 2003 no IEAv/CTA. Não passou de testes conceituais. A ùnica coisa que era certa por todo este tempo é que ele só se transformaria em projeto para valer DEPOIS que o básico do Básico pudesse se materializar. Que foi o MAA-1A e B. Esse esboço aí em cima curiosamente se aproxima dos esboços (esboço e não desenho)feitos pelo CTA(repito, tudo quase informal), por que não havia um projeto numerado do tipo IPD "número tal".
esse ante-projeto conceitual, provavelmente irá morrer qdo. da adesão brasileira ao projeto T/S-Darter.
Quanto ao Míssil apresentado como Ar-superfície, se trata de licensa poética e gráfica do mantenedor do site, já que a configur~ção aerodinâmica não corresponde a conceitualizada para esta classe de mísseis.
esse ante-projeto conceitual, provavelmente irá morrer qdo. da adesão brasileira ao projeto T/S-Darter.
Quanto ao Míssil apresentado como Ar-superfície, se trata de licensa poética e gráfica do mantenedor do site, já que a configur~ção aerodinâmica não corresponde a conceitualizada para esta classe de mísseis.
Só há 2 tipos de navios: os submarinos e os alvos...
Armam-se homens com as melhores armas.
Armam-se Submarinos com os melhores homens.
Os sábios PENSAM
Os Inteligentes COPIAM
Os Idiotas PLANTAM e os
Os Imbecis FINANCIAM...
Armam-se homens com as melhores armas.
Armam-se Submarinos com os melhores homens.
Os sábios PENSAM
Os Inteligentes COPIAM
Os Idiotas PLANTAM e os
Os Imbecis FINANCIAM...
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Re: Mectron
Pessoal, essas armas aí foram criadas por um brasileiro para o Wings Over Europe.
Não tem nada de real aí, seus loucos.

Não tem nada de real aí, seus loucos.


"Eu detestaria estar no lugar de quem me venceu."
Darcy Ribeiro (1922 - 1997)
Darcy Ribeiro (1922 - 1997)