Este novo sub nipônico é bem indicativo do que podemos fazer em relação a um terceiro lote da classe Riachuelo, tendo como ponto de partida o casco do projeto do subnuc. Seria uma ótima forma de testar todos os sistemas (convencionais, claro) antes de serem instalados no próprio Álvaro Alberto.
abs
Marinha do Japão
Moderador: Conselho de Moderação
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FCarvalho
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akivrx78
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Alguns pontos que foram alterados.
A retirada do sistema AIP
Introdução de baterias de Lítio
Um novo sistema de motores a diesel para recarregar as baterias em menor tempo.
Limite de velocidade máxima de 18 Knot antes era 20 Knot porem a velocidade máxima somente poderia ser utilizada por curto tempo, agora o tempo de utilização da velocidade máxima fica limitada a bateria/combustível.
Novo mastro com antenas mais discretos
Novo sistema de comunicação por satélite de banda X
Novo sonar
Novo sistema de combate
Novo sistema de tubos de torpedos
Novo dispositivo de monitoramento e controle de ar interno
Novo material reflexivo no casco
Banheiros e chuveiro com portas para tripulação feminina
O primeiro submarino desta classe, o Taigei, será convertido em um submarino de teste. O motivo da mudança se deve à necessidade de adquirir um submarino de teste dedicado em vez de retirar um submarino comum antigo de suas operações e modifica-lo para realizar os testes.
Ao fazer isso, o JMSDF pode aumentar os dias de operação e fortalecer as atividades de monitoramento com seus submarinos de ataque, enquanto o submarino de teste acelera a pesquisa e o desenvolvimento.
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cabeça de martelo
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Então os Japoneses acham que o AIP não é vantajoso o suficiente e preferem investir em novas baterias a lítio?
Interessante.
Interessante.
"Lá nos confins da Península Ibérica, existe um povo que não governa nem se deixa governar ”, Caio Júlio César, líder Militar Romano".
O insulto é a arma dos fracos...
O insulto é a arma dos fracos...
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cabeça de martelo
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Japan Just Launched Its First “Big Whale” Lithium-Ion Battery Powered Submarine
Japan is preparing to introduce an innovative new class of diesel-electric submarine, the largest it has built since World War II.
BY THOMAS NEW DICK
After around a decade of research and development, Japan is now close to putting into service the first of a new type of diesel-electric submarine, driven by an innovative propulsion system using lithium-ion batteries. While the two most recent examples of Japan’s Soryu class are fitted with a similar powerplant, the Taigei, which means Big Whale in Japanese, is the first of a class to feature it from the outset. Currently, only Japan is known to have operational submarines with lithium-ion batteries.
The Taigei was launched on October 14, 2020, at the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) shipyard in the city of Kobe, in the western prefecture of Hyogo. The event was attended by Japan’s Minister of Defense Nobuo Kishi and Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) chief Hiroshi Yamamura.
eports suggest that construction of the boat cost around $710 million. The new submarine is 275 feet 7 inches long and with a surfaced displacement of around 3,000 tons, it is also the largest post-World War II submarine Japan has built. The existing Soryu class design has a surfaced displacement of approximately 2,900 tons.
The Taigei can accommodate up to 70 crew. At the launch, the JMSDF also noted that the new sub will offer a “suitable environment for female submariners,” after the first woman entered the Japanese submariners’ academy earlier in 2020.
However, by far the most innovative part of Taigei’s design is its advanced diesel-electric powerplant, which as noted, makes use of lithium-ion batteries. The last two boats in the previous Soryu class were completed with a similar configuration, which is claimed to provide increased endurance at high speeds when submerged. Charging is also said to be quicker and battery life longer compared to lead-acid batteries, which have to be repeatedly recharged by running the diesel engines. Besides, the lithium-ion cells are less bulky and have reduced maintenance requirements.
On the other hand, lithium-ion batteries are more costly than the lead-acid alternative. In the past, the JMSDF provided a construction cost of $488 million for a standard Soryu-class boat, as opposed to $608 million for the first of the lithium-ion subvariants.
Back in early 2017, The War Zone’s Tyler Rogoway looked at the benefits of lithium-ion batteries, which not only offer advantages over traditional lead-acid cells but which may also start to challenge Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology for use in new-build submarines.
At that time, it already appeared that Japan was seeking to entirely replace AIP technology, presently a gold-standard of sorts for modern diesel-electric submarines, with a new propulsion arrangement centered around lithium-ion batteries that would still retain the same advantages. A key consideration was further reducing the submarine’s acoustic signature by eliminating the many moving parts typically found in AIP systems, which are already generally very quiet.
In principle, this would result in an exceptionally quiet boat, making it very hard for opponents to detect and track, but with the added advantage of being able to accelerate much more rapidly while submerged than existing AIP submarines. Those factors indicate that the JMSDF could be prioritizing dash speed and stealth as a means to counter the PLAN’s burgeoning nuclear-powered and AIP-driven submarines.
On the other hand, potential problems with lithium-ion batteries include the fact they can be prone to combusting, generating a lot of heat, plus toxic fumes and conductive dust, all of which raise the risk of potentially deadly fires and other accidents. As such, there is a need for an additional degree of safety to be built into the submarine’s basic design.
It certainly seems that the JMSDF has greater confidence that the new propulsion system will live up to its promise and that any safety concerns have been addressed. The later Soryu boats incorporate a specialized automated fire-extinguishing system and it can be assumed that something similar is used in the Taigei too.
Taigei will also be used to further prove this propulsion concept, in general. In December 2018, the Japanese government published a white paper entitled National Defense Program Guidelines for Fiscal Year 2019 and Beyond that said the submarine would be used primarily for testing of the new technology. This could help explain the dramatic acceleration of Taigei’s development and construction. MHI had announced plans to build a new type of diesel-electric submarine in June 2019, initially known as the 29SS class. At that point, construction was anticipated to begin between 2025 and 2028, followed by the launch of the first vessel around 2031. After completing its fitting out and at-sea trials, plans now call for the Taigei to deploy operationally with the JMSDF in March 2022 in its testing-focused role.
The Taigei and the other future submarines in its class are just one part of Japan’s broader efforts to bolster its defenses in response to growing regional security concerns. This includes the increasing threat posed by China’s military, especially its fast-growing navy, as well as by an ever-more capable North Korea, which recently unveiled a slew of new weapons, including new intercontinental and submarine-launched ballistic missiles.
With an eye on a spike in activity by the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) in both the East China Sea and the South China Sea, as well as further out into the Pacific, Tokyo’s defense plans include expansion of its submarine fleet to 22 vessels by the early 2020s.
Currently, the JMSDF operates nine 2,750-ton-displacement Oyashio-class submarines and 11 2,900-ton-displacement Soryu-class boats, the most recent — and the first with lithium-ion batteries — being commissioned into service in March 2020. A 12th member of the Soryu class, named Toryu, is undergoing tests before formally joining the fleet.
Beyond this 22-boat submarine fleet, Japan plans to add at least another two Taigei-class submarines, one of which was included in the defense ministry’s latest budget request.
It’s all part of a military spending program that encompasses big-ticket items ranging from the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to hypersonic missiles. Japan’s Ministry of Defense has requested an annual budget increase for the last eight years now, reaching $55 billion for the next fiscal year, starting in April 2021.
As well as spearheading a maritime force that should help secure critical sea lanes in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, there’s a possibility Japan’s new class of submarines might also attract foreign interest. An offer of the previous Soryu-class boats to Australia was unsuccessful, but Tokyo has reshaped its national defense policy to include major arms exports. With an established lead in lithium-ion battery technology, the Taigei class, or its subsystems, could prove attractive. In the meantime, the concept is gaining traction elsewhere, including in South Korea.
Whether this type of battery propulsion finds a place on other navies’ submarines remains to be seen, but it’s clear that they are here to stay, with the JMSDF undersea force, at least, now well on its way to a lithium-ion-powered future.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... -submarine
Japan is preparing to introduce an innovative new class of diesel-electric submarine, the largest it has built since World War II.
BY THOMAS NEW DICK
After around a decade of research and development, Japan is now close to putting into service the first of a new type of diesel-electric submarine, driven by an innovative propulsion system using lithium-ion batteries. While the two most recent examples of Japan’s Soryu class are fitted with a similar powerplant, the Taigei, which means Big Whale in Japanese, is the first of a class to feature it from the outset. Currently, only Japan is known to have operational submarines with lithium-ion batteries.
The Taigei was launched on October 14, 2020, at the Mitsubishi Heavy Industries (MHI) shipyard in the city of Kobe, in the western prefecture of Hyogo. The event was attended by Japan’s Minister of Defense Nobuo Kishi and Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force (JMSDF) chief Hiroshi Yamamura.
eports suggest that construction of the boat cost around $710 million. The new submarine is 275 feet 7 inches long and with a surfaced displacement of around 3,000 tons, it is also the largest post-World War II submarine Japan has built. The existing Soryu class design has a surfaced displacement of approximately 2,900 tons.
The Taigei can accommodate up to 70 crew. At the launch, the JMSDF also noted that the new sub will offer a “suitable environment for female submariners,” after the first woman entered the Japanese submariners’ academy earlier in 2020.
However, by far the most innovative part of Taigei’s design is its advanced diesel-electric powerplant, which as noted, makes use of lithium-ion batteries. The last two boats in the previous Soryu class were completed with a similar configuration, which is claimed to provide increased endurance at high speeds when submerged. Charging is also said to be quicker and battery life longer compared to lead-acid batteries, which have to be repeatedly recharged by running the diesel engines. Besides, the lithium-ion cells are less bulky and have reduced maintenance requirements.
On the other hand, lithium-ion batteries are more costly than the lead-acid alternative. In the past, the JMSDF provided a construction cost of $488 million for a standard Soryu-class boat, as opposed to $608 million for the first of the lithium-ion subvariants.
Back in early 2017, The War Zone’s Tyler Rogoway looked at the benefits of lithium-ion batteries, which not only offer advantages over traditional lead-acid cells but which may also start to challenge Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) technology for use in new-build submarines.
At that time, it already appeared that Japan was seeking to entirely replace AIP technology, presently a gold-standard of sorts for modern diesel-electric submarines, with a new propulsion arrangement centered around lithium-ion batteries that would still retain the same advantages. A key consideration was further reducing the submarine’s acoustic signature by eliminating the many moving parts typically found in AIP systems, which are already generally very quiet.
In principle, this would result in an exceptionally quiet boat, making it very hard for opponents to detect and track, but with the added advantage of being able to accelerate much more rapidly while submerged than existing AIP submarines. Those factors indicate that the JMSDF could be prioritizing dash speed and stealth as a means to counter the PLAN’s burgeoning nuclear-powered and AIP-driven submarines.
On the other hand, potential problems with lithium-ion batteries include the fact they can be prone to combusting, generating a lot of heat, plus toxic fumes and conductive dust, all of which raise the risk of potentially deadly fires and other accidents. As such, there is a need for an additional degree of safety to be built into the submarine’s basic design.
It certainly seems that the JMSDF has greater confidence that the new propulsion system will live up to its promise and that any safety concerns have been addressed. The later Soryu boats incorporate a specialized automated fire-extinguishing system and it can be assumed that something similar is used in the Taigei too.
Taigei will also be used to further prove this propulsion concept, in general. In December 2018, the Japanese government published a white paper entitled National Defense Program Guidelines for Fiscal Year 2019 and Beyond that said the submarine would be used primarily for testing of the new technology. This could help explain the dramatic acceleration of Taigei’s development and construction. MHI had announced plans to build a new type of diesel-electric submarine in June 2019, initially known as the 29SS class. At that point, construction was anticipated to begin between 2025 and 2028, followed by the launch of the first vessel around 2031. After completing its fitting out and at-sea trials, plans now call for the Taigei to deploy operationally with the JMSDF in March 2022 in its testing-focused role.
The Taigei and the other future submarines in its class are just one part of Japan’s broader efforts to bolster its defenses in response to growing regional security concerns. This includes the increasing threat posed by China’s military, especially its fast-growing navy, as well as by an ever-more capable North Korea, which recently unveiled a slew of new weapons, including new intercontinental and submarine-launched ballistic missiles.
With an eye on a spike in activity by the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) in both the East China Sea and the South China Sea, as well as further out into the Pacific, Tokyo’s defense plans include expansion of its submarine fleet to 22 vessels by the early 2020s.
Currently, the JMSDF operates nine 2,750-ton-displacement Oyashio-class submarines and 11 2,900-ton-displacement Soryu-class boats, the most recent — and the first with lithium-ion batteries — being commissioned into service in March 2020. A 12th member of the Soryu class, named Toryu, is undergoing tests before formally joining the fleet.
Beyond this 22-boat submarine fleet, Japan plans to add at least another two Taigei-class submarines, one of which was included in the defense ministry’s latest budget request.
It’s all part of a military spending program that encompasses big-ticket items ranging from the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to hypersonic missiles. Japan’s Ministry of Defense has requested an annual budget increase for the last eight years now, reaching $55 billion for the next fiscal year, starting in April 2021.
As well as spearheading a maritime force that should help secure critical sea lanes in the East China Sea and the South China Sea, there’s a possibility Japan’s new class of submarines might also attract foreign interest. An offer of the previous Soryu-class boats to Australia was unsuccessful, but Tokyo has reshaped its national defense policy to include major arms exports. With an established lead in lithium-ion battery technology, the Taigei class, or its subsystems, could prove attractive. In the meantime, the concept is gaining traction elsewhere, including in South Korea.
Whether this type of battery propulsion finds a place on other navies’ submarines remains to be seen, but it’s clear that they are here to stay, with the JMSDF undersea force, at least, now well on its way to a lithium-ion-powered future.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... -submarine
"Lá nos confins da Península Ibérica, existe um povo que não governa nem se deixa governar ”, Caio Júlio César, líder Militar Romano".
O insulto é a arma dos fracos...
O insulto é a arma dos fracos...
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akivrx78
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Re: Marinha do Japão
cabeça de martelo escreveu: ↑Qui Out 15, 2020 7:53 am Então os Japoneses acham que o AIP não é vantajoso o suficiente e preferem investir em novas baterias a lítio?
Interessante.
Soryu
Taigei este projeto era o que os japoneses queriam vender para a Austrália.
O AIP do Soryu ocupava um bloco inteiro do Sub, retirando o sistema e ampliando a quantidade de baterias o sub ampliou em 4 vezes a autonomia mesmo sem o AIP.
A proxima classe esta, previsto o retorno do sistema AIP de hidrogênio.
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akivrx78
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Re: Marinha do Japão
O segundo navio da nova classe FFM construído pela Mitsui vai ser lançado dia 19 de novembro o primeiro construído pela Mitsubishi ainda não informaram a data de lançamento.
A numeração desta nova classe vai se iniciar com o número 1...
O primeiro navio parece estar quase pronto.
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FCarvalho
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Por quê há dois estaleiros construindo esses navios? Não basta um só, ou existe pressa em mandar a maior quantidade possível deles à água por parte da marinha do Japão?
abs
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Carpe Diem
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akivrx78
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Re: Marinha do Japão
São 2 navios por ano e vence quem oferece o menor valor na licitação, o terceiro e quarto navio que vai ser lançado em 2021 a Mitsubishi ganhou o contrato, os 2 que serão construídos em 2022 o quinto a Mitsubishi ganhou, o sexto a Mitsui ganhou o contrato.
Além do preço eu acho que tem a ver a capacidade do estaleiro em atender aos pedidos a tempo já que eles continuam a construir navios para outros clientes.
Como uma tripulação de um navio que vai dar baixa mais ou menos 210 tripulantes serão remanejados para 2 novos navios com 100 tripulantes, os novos navios tem a necessidade de serem incorporados ao mesmo tempo para não deixar a tripulação a espera.
foto da segunda unidade.
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FCarvalho
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Muito interessante, e inteligente, essa forma de aquisição.
Valeu pela explicação.
abs
Valeu pela explicação.
abs
Carpe Diem
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FCarvalho
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Deveríamos aprender com quem sabe mais do que nós achamos que sabemos.
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akivrx78
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Não sabia que eles testavam o motor antes de lançar o navio ao mar.Sobre o motivo pelo qual a cerimônia de nomeação e lançamento do segundo navio precedeu esta vez, um porta-voz da Agência de Equipamentos de Defesa da Marinha disse: "Para o primeiro navio sob a responsabilidade da Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, no momento de testar o motor de turbina a gás, que é o motor principal, O motor da turbina a gás sugou as peças caídas e danificou-as, o que atrasou o andamento das obras ”. Em relação ao grau de dano ao motor da turbina a gás, ele disse: “Algumas peças foram danificadas e já foram restauradas”. Devido a este infeliz acidente, a cerimônia de nomeação e lançamento do primeiro navio foi adiada, e ele respondeu: "O tempo de implementação (da cerimônia de nomeação e lançamento) ainda está sendo ajustado e indeciso."
http://www.jwing.net/news/32001
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FCarvalho
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vplemes
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Re: Marinha do Japão
Questão de bom senso. Imagina o tamanho da vergonha se acontecer um chabu na hora do lançamento? Teria almirante procurando a wakizashi do avô no baú para cometer seppuku.akivrx78 escreveu: ↑Sáb Nov 14, 2020 8:54 amNão sabia que eles testavam o motor antes de lançar o navio ao mar.Sobre o motivo pelo qual a cerimônia de nomeação e lançamento do segundo navio precedeu esta vez, um porta-voz da Agência de Equipamentos de Defesa da Marinha disse: "Para o primeiro navio sob a responsabilidade da Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, no momento de testar o motor de turbina a gás, que é o motor principal, O motor da turbina a gás sugou as peças caídas e danificou-as, o que atrasou o andamento das obras ”. Em relação ao grau de dano ao motor da turbina a gás, ele disse: “Algumas peças foram danificadas e já foram restauradas”. Devido a este infeliz acidente, a cerimônia de nomeação e lançamento do primeiro navio foi adiada, e ele respondeu: "O tempo de implementação (da cerimônia de nomeação e lançamento) ainda está sendo ajustado e indeciso."
http://www.jwing.net/news/32001