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Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Qua Mai 27, 2015 12:06 pm
por Penguin
Luís Henrique escreveu:
juarez castro escreveu: La envidea és una mierda.............

Grande abraço
Juarez, inveja desse projeto eu não tenho.
Do navio sim, mas do projeto não.

A bem da verdade foi um projeto de PÉSSIMO custo/benefício.

A Espanha encomendou 4 F-100 por €1,68 bi e no final acabou pagando €1,81 bi, o que convertendo da U$ 1,96 bi
A 5ª Fragata, a F-105 Alvaro de Bazan custou U$ 1,1 bi.

Veja o exemplo da Itália, 10 FREMM (4 ASW e 6 de Emprego Geral) por cerca de U$ 6,3 bi

Agora os australianos possuem 3 navios excelentes. Isto não há dúvida. Mas pelo custo de U$ 7,08 bi
Ou U$ 2,36 bi CADA destroyer.
Já que é para gastar tanto poderiam substituir esses 3 destroyers por 2 Zumwalt.
Lembrar que os navios estão sendo construídos na Austrália e há as tais de ToTs no processo, o que encarece tudo.
Além do mais, são navios AAW especializados, ao contrário das FREMM.

[]s

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Qua Mai 27, 2015 12:44 pm
por Luís Henrique
Penguin escreveu:
Luís Henrique escreveu: Juarez, inveja desse projeto eu não tenho.
Do navio sim, mas do projeto não.

A bem da verdade foi um projeto de PÉSSIMO custo/benefício.

A Espanha encomendou 4 F-100 por €1,68 bi e no final acabou pagando €1,81 bi, o que convertendo da U$ 1,96 bi
A 5ª Fragata, a F-105 Alvaro de Bazan custou U$ 1,1 bi.

Veja o exemplo da Itália, 10 FREMM (4 ASW e 6 de Emprego Geral) por cerca de U$ 6,3 bi

Agora os australianos possuem 3 navios excelentes. Isto não há dúvida. Mas pelo custo de U$ 7,08 bi
Ou U$ 2,36 bi CADA destroyer.
Já que é para gastar tanto poderiam substituir esses 3 destroyers por 2 Zumwalt.
Lembrar que os navios estão sendo construídos na Austrália e há as tais de ToTs no processo, o que encarece tudo.
Além do mais, são navios AAW especializados, ao contrário das FREMM.

[]s
Sim, mas é um aumento de custo MUITO alto. Haja TOT para chegar neste valor.

Sobre navios especializados AAW, as F-100 espanholas também são e custaram MUITO MENOS. Possuem o mesmo radar Spy-1D e o sistema AEGIS e os mesmos 48 silos para lançamento de mísseis.
As FREMM italianas, apesar de serem 4 ASW e 6 GP, TODAS possuem capacidades AAW Estendidas com o uso do Aster 30.
Ainda que o número de mísseis fique abaixo da Hobart e da F-100, mas são 16 mísseis Aster-30, 2 CIWS em canhões de 76mm Super Rapid e mais 2 canhões de 25mm.
A 9ª e a 10ª FREMM italiana possuirão capacidade AAW ainda mais ampliada e capacidade FULL ATBM, com o uso de um radar com o TRIPLO de alcance. E terão também o VLS A70 para mísseis de cruzeiro.

Quer mais um exemplo, os alemães pagaram MENOS em suas 3 Fragatas da Classe Sachsen (cerca de U$ 2,28 bi) do que os australianos estão pagando em APENAS UM Hobart.

É ou não é um projeto de péssimo custo/benefício?

Talvez foi bom para a indústria australiana, mas para a marinha, poderiam ter 10 Fragatas com capacidades semelhantes em vez de 3. :?

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Qua Mai 27, 2015 9:54 pm
por Penguin
Imagem

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Dom Jun 21, 2015 3:13 pm
por P44
Old meets new, as the RAN LSH HMAS Tobruk sails next to the new LHD, HMAS Canberra, in Sydney Harbour, today.

Imagem

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Dom Out 04, 2015 2:14 pm
por P44
RAN AAW destroyer (AWD) HMAS Hobart berthed at the fitting out wharf at Techport Australia (Sep 28). Photo: sema4

Imagem

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Qui Nov 19, 2015 7:41 am
por akivrx78
Japan Guns for World's Biggest Defense Deal: Aussie Subs

Isabel Reynolds
Jason Scott
November 19, 2015 — 7:00 AM JST

Less than two years after lifting a decades-old ban on arms exports, Japan is navigating one of the most complex and sensitive areas of the defense market: submarines.

The country faces a Nov. 30 deadline to submit a final proposal to Australia for its next-generation submarine, the largest such tender in the world right now. A team of government officials, military officers and corporate executives with no experience in international arms marketing is facing off against global heavyweights ThyssenKrupp AG of Germany and DCNS of France for the A$50 billion ($36 billion) program.

More than commercial interests are at stake. Winning the race to design and build the submersibles would cement the "special" relationship Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has sought to build with a fellow U.S. ally against an assertive China. For Australia, cooperating with Japan -- whose Soryu is widely seen as the best submarine of its type -- risks angering China, its biggest trading partner.

"We are basically prepared to share all our technology," Masaki Ishikawa, a Ministry of Defense official working on Japan’s bid, said in an interview Friday. "Until now, we had never even shown our submarine technology to our ally, the U.S.”
Japanese Pacifism

The submarine competition comes as Japan agonizes over how far to loosen the constraints of the pacifist constitution imposed by the U.S. after World War II and revered by many Japanese. The passage of laws to expand the role of the military met with huge street protests over the summer.

“Make no mistake: a decision in favor of Japan would have tangible strategic implications," said Mark Thomson, a defense economics analyst at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute. "It would assist Japan down the path of military normalization, and it would also send an unambiguous message to both Beijing and Washington about the willingness of Australia and Japan to work together."

With Australia and the U.S. set to jointly develop a combat system to be installed in the new submarines, a Japanese deal could tighten ties between the three countries’ armed forces, Ishikawa said.
Sales Pitch

The A$50 billion contract would be to build the subs and service them over their decades-long lifetime. Defence Minister Marise Payne said at the Submarine Institute of Australia Tuesday the number of subs would be announced next year, though the country needs between eight and 12, analysts say.

Japan is set to ratchet up its sales pitch. Defense Minister Gen Nakatani leaves Thursday to meet South Australian premier Jay Weatherill and shipbuilder ASC, with that state a hub for naval manufacturing. He’ll join Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida for a meeting with Payne and Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop Nov. 22. Nakatani plans to raise the deal at the meeting, he told reporters in Tokyo on Tuesday.

New Design

Japan has deployed its conventionally powered, 4,000-ton Soryu class subs -- the largest of their type in the world -- since 2009. The latest models cost about 60 billion yen ($487 million). The Soryu, manufactured by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries, is a close match for the Australian Navy’s needs, though the new submarines would be a fresh design, Ishikawa said.

ThyssenKrupp, Germany’s largest steelmaker, has said its marine unit could build 12 submarines for Australia for about A$20 billion. Germany has experience exporting submarines, but it hasn’t constructed one to the size Australia requires.

“Our design will be customized according to Australia’s requirements and will be exclusively offered to Australia,” John White, chairman of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems in Australia, said Wednesday. The company targets about 70 percent Australian involvement, pledging to create thousands of jobs.

‘Zero Experience’

The German government “is confident that our company is able to offer good quality” and “interesting” possibilities to produce locally, Chancellor Angela Merkel said last week at a briefing with Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull in Berlin.

Japan has “zero experience bidding in an international competition of this size, complexity and political sensitivity, so it is flying blind," said James Hardy, Asia-Pacific editor of IHS Jane’s.

"It’s a fact we have no experience selling submarines overseas," Ishikawa said. "I have seen in the newspapers the view that our pitch has not been good enough. I think it’s necessary to explain in detail why this is the best choice for the Australian Navy’s needs and for Australian companies."

In response to criticism that Japan wasn’t providing enough information, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries has held meetings with more than 100 Australian firms, Ishikawa added.

Three Options

Australia has asked for three build options: Australia only, overseas only or a hybrid of the two. Japan’s teams is willing to build in Australia, Ishikawa said. The process would start with the establishment of design centers in Japan and Australia, and add an Australian training facility for local workers.

"The concept is similar to the way that Japanese motor manufacturers like Toyota and Honda work with overseas production," Ishikawa said.

Australia is likely to announce its decision next year, Ishikawa said, adding Australian officials have told him the ousting in September of Prime Minister Tony Abbott, known for his close relationship with Abe, in favor of Turnbull won’t affect the process. Abe and Turnbull met Nov. 14 on the sidelines of the G-20 summit in Turkey.

It’s not just Japan’s pride in its technical prowess that could be dented by a rejection, bilateral ties could also suffer, Thomson said.

"If it’s a purely commercial matter, a loss would merely be disappointing," said Thomson. "But my instinct is that the original deal had much more to do with strategy than money," he said. "If I’m right, a Japanese loss would amount to, or at least be perceived as, Australia rejecting a closer strategic relationship with Japan."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... -australia
Embora tenha muita propaganda, os japoneses em geral e militares da Msdf são contra a venda dos subs, os militares são contra por causa da possibilidade de dados sigilosos vazarem para a China.

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Sáb Nov 21, 2015 4:08 pm
por P44
https://www.facebook.com/RoyalAustralia ... 680678330/

Aerial vision of the two Landing Helicopter Docks in Sydney together

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Sáb Nov 28, 2015 2:24 pm
por P44
Defence Force Bungle: Tanks too heavy to be loaded and taken to sea.

https://www.facebook.com/7newssydney/vi ... 612464637/

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Ter Fev 16, 2016 12:35 pm
por cabeça de martelo
Beyond 2017
The Australian Defence Force and amphibious warfare


:arrow: https://www.aspi.org.au/publications/be ... bility.pdf

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Sex Mar 11, 2016 12:05 pm
por cabeça de martelo
Imagem

Navantia has been downselected to build the replenishment vessels, one of which will replace HMAS Syrius, seen
here on a replenishment exercise.

Australia selects Navantia for new replenishment ships

http://www.janes.com/article/58705/aust ... hment-ship
[/quote]

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Sex Mar 11, 2016 12:10 pm
por Wingate
cabeça de martelo escreveu:Imagem

Navantia has been downselected to build the replenishment vessels, one of which will replace HMAS Syrius, seen
here on a replenishment exercise.

Australia selects Navantia for new replenishment ships

http://www.janes.com/article/58705/aust ... hment-ship
[/quote]

Se inveja matasse...Bem que poderíamos estar produzindo navios como esse em nossos estaleiros civis...

E vida segue... :roll:

Wingate

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Seg Mar 14, 2016 9:36 pm
por ferrol
Siempre é curioso ver coma as construccions propias acaban na outra parte do mundo...e como, a pouco que pensemos, como é posible que a RAN se este a construir en Ferrol...

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Qua Abr 27, 2016 10:04 am
por P44
France's DCNS Wins $39 Billion Australian Submarine Contract

Australia snubbed a bid from Japan to award one of the world’s biggest defense deals to France’s DCNS Group, opting for a contract that will generate jobs in Australia and minimize a backlash from its major trading partner China.

The French offer for the A$50 billion ($39 billion) contract to build 12 submarines trumped those by Japan’s Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd., Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd., and Thyssenkrupp AG of Germany. DCNS will build the fleet in Adelaide and the project should create about 2,800 jobs, a point Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull made in announcing the winner Tuesday ahead of an election expected in July.


https://assets.bwbx.io/images/iOUmTIUJaHho/v1/-1x-1.jpg
The DCNS Shortfin Barracuda submarine.
Source: DCNS

The outcome is a double loss for Japan, which saw the contract as a step toward opening up its defense industry two years after the government lifted a decades-old ban on arms exports. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe has also sought to boost ties with Australia, a fellow U.S. ally, as China asserts its military ambitions in the region.

“The geopolitical advantages of strengthening the relationship with Japan were not sufficient to overcome whatever commercial and technical advantages the French bid had,” said Mark Thomson, a defense economics analyst at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute in Canberra. Australia must now “find some way of preserving a constructive, strategic relationship with Japan.”
Sea Tensions

As a military ally of the U.S. but an economic partner of China, Australia has walked a line between the two countries. Tensions in the western Pacific are increasing as China asserts its claim to more than 80 percent of the South China Sea, where it has built artificial islands and runways. China also has territorial tensions over islands in the East China Sea claimed by Japan.


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... submarines

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Qua Abr 27, 2016 11:24 am
por toncat
:shock:

U$ 39 bilhões por 12 Subs. :shock:

U$39/12un = U$ 3,25bi por unidade :shock:

:shock:
Austrália seleciona submarino da DCNS para o programa SEA 1000

Fonte:
http://www.naval.com.br/blog/2016/04/26 ... -sea-1000/
[002]

Re: Marinha da Austrália

Enviado: Qua Abr 27, 2016 11:37 am
por J.Ricardo
Com certeza a Austrália vai ter o submarino mais capaz por aquelas bandas...