PAK FA - VOOU!!!
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Não, Skyway, nada parecido com esse desenho vai voar a velocidades supersônicas, ainda mais transportando 200 toneladas como cita o artigo, e não seriam mudanças pequenas e nem esse desenho com grandes mudanças, o Leandro citou o Mig 9 e Mig 19, eu diria que a diferença está mais para Mig 9 e Mig 25.
O desenho é bonito porque foi feito por um artista com o único compromisso de ser bonito, se fosse feito por um engenheiro com o compromisso de funcionar seria bem diferente.
Os russos tem alguns projetos de transportes supersônicos, nenhum deles chega perto disso ai:
O desenho é bonito porque foi feito por um artista com o único compromisso de ser bonito, se fosse feito por um engenheiro com o compromisso de funcionar seria bem diferente.
Os russos tem alguns projetos de transportes supersônicos, nenhum deles chega perto disso ai:
"Quando um rico rouba, vira ministro" (Lula, 1988)
- Skyway
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Sim Marechal do Ar, aeronaves como esse desenho do Pak-Ta podem sim voar a velocidades supersônicas.
E afirmo isso com a mesma propriedade e certeza que você afirma que não. A diferença reside na tua opinião e nos teus conhecimentos, e na minha opinião e nos meus conhecimentos. Poderíamos debater por páginas aqui todo o embasamento técnico de nossas opiniões, mas sinceramente, gastar todo esse tempo e paciência só porque eu disse ser um bom desenho e que pode servir para o que se destina, é um pouco de exagero, não?
Eu acho que exceto de posse do projeto executivo e técnico de uma aeronave que, quiçá, levaria em conta esse desenho, afirmando que não só tecnicamente mas financeiramente não seria possível construí-lo, aí sim alguém poderia chegar aqui e falar com tanta certeza que não, esse avião não voa supersônico. Não existe impedimento técnico para que um avião com essa solução de design chegue a altas velocidades, e afirmar que ele não voaria supersônico é apenas querer ter razão sem fundamento, na minha opinião.
Mas tudo bem, quer afirmar aqui que ele não voaria supersônico, fique a vontade.
Um abraço.
E afirmo isso com a mesma propriedade e certeza que você afirma que não. A diferença reside na tua opinião e nos teus conhecimentos, e na minha opinião e nos meus conhecimentos. Poderíamos debater por páginas aqui todo o embasamento técnico de nossas opiniões, mas sinceramente, gastar todo esse tempo e paciência só porque eu disse ser um bom desenho e que pode servir para o que se destina, é um pouco de exagero, não?
Eu acho que exceto de posse do projeto executivo e técnico de uma aeronave que, quiçá, levaria em conta esse desenho, afirmando que não só tecnicamente mas financeiramente não seria possível construí-lo, aí sim alguém poderia chegar aqui e falar com tanta certeza que não, esse avião não voa supersônico. Não existe impedimento técnico para que um avião com essa solução de design chegue a altas velocidades, e afirmar que ele não voaria supersônico é apenas querer ter razão sem fundamento, na minha opinião.
Mas tudo bem, quer afirmar aqui que ele não voaria supersônico, fique a vontade.
Um abraço.
AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Ta certo Skyway... Com uma relação potência / peso de 2 para 1 uma aeronave com esse desenho chegaria a velocidades supersônicas, e precisaria de tanta potência pelas razões já citadas por mim e pelo Leandro, e essa é a razão para que esse voo nunca ocorra.
Melhor agora?
Melhor agora?
"Quando um rico rouba, vira ministro" (Lula, 1988)
- Skyway
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Marechal-do-ar escreveu:Ta certo Skyway... Com uma relação potência / peso de 2 para 1 uma aeronave com esse desenho chegaria a velocidades supersônicas, e precisaria de tanta potência pelas razões já citadas por mim e pelo Leandro, e essa é a razão para que esse voo nunca ocorra.
Melhor agora?
Não Marechal, não está melhor agora. Mas eu já falei, quer decretar, é opção sua.
Agora por favor, falar de T/W comigo como se eu não tivesse chegado nem a pensar nisso é subestimar não só minha inteligência como minha formação profissional.
Sério, acho que já deu, não?
Um abraço.
AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
- Carlos Lima
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- mmatuso
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Provavelmente as FA russas vão chegar a conclusão que esse caça não ta com nada e vão encomendar uns 5000 Gripen NG.
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Pois é, tem algo estranho, iam encomendar 50, e ficou em doze. Provavelmente a realidade bateu na porta do Kremlin.
Grande abraço
Grande abraço
- Penguin
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Grounded? Russia's answer to US next-gen fighter hits the skids.
The Kremlin is cutting its initial production of the Sukhoi T-50 fighter by 75 percent amid cost overruns and rumored technical concerns – the same kind of issues that have plagued US development of the F-35.
By Fred Weir, Correspondent MARCH 27, 2015
Alexei Druzhinin/RIA-Novosti/Pool/AP/FileView Caption
MOSCOW — Russia's ambitious T-50 fighter plane project was meant to develop a rival to two futuristic US jetfighters, the F-22 Raptor and the planned F-35 Lightning-II.
But now, the T-50 appears to be rivaling the F-35 another way: in development troubles. The Kremlin is slamming the brakes on its "fifth generation" fighter program and cutting its initial rollout to a quarter of those originally planned.
The decision seems a setback for Vladimir Putin's sweeping $800 billion rearmament program, a vital component of the wider effort to restore Russia to its Soviet-era status as a major global superpower. However, the sharp slowdown in plans to procure the sophisticated new jet may represent an outbreak of wisdom on the part of Russian military chiefs, who will remember how the USSR was driven into bankruptcy by engaging in an all-out arms race with the US.
Financial constraints are the key reason cited for cutting the military order from 52 to 12 of the planes over the next few years, according to the Moscow daily Kommersant.
"Given the new economic conditions, the original plans may have to be adjusted," the paper quotes Deputy Defense Minister Yuriy Borisov as saying. The project to build a cutting-edge fighter plane, which is partly financed by India, will not be canceled, but held in abeyance while the Russian Air Force makes the most of its existing "fourth generation" MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft, he added.
No one knows whether technical problems may also have played a role in the decision to shelve the fighter.
"We may suppose there are problems, but hard information is lacking," says Alexander Golts, an independent military expert. "For instance, the prototypes of this plane have been using an old engine, pending the development of the engine it needs. Has that been developed yet? We have no idea."
The only operational "fifth generation" fighter in the world is the US F-22. Its production was canceled in 2009, after fewer than 200 of the hyper-expensive planes had been built. American military services are now awaiting the arrival of the newer and also hugely overpriced F-35, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter, but that program has been dogged with serious delays and technical failures.
The T-50, an advanced stealth plane with many capabilities lacking in previous fighters, has prompted some alarm in the West. The Russians have presented the project as an example of how they are able to leapfrog over the lost years, after Russia's military-industrial complex collapsed along with the Soviet Union, and field 21st century weapons that can rival the best the US has to offer.
Most of the weaponry that's currently in Russia's military inventory are Soviet-era designs that have evolved to incorporate new technology. Only three projects currently in the testing phase have been entirely developed by post-Soviet Russia. They are the T-50, the recently unveiled T-14 Armata tank, and the Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile.
Recent reports suggest that Russian military brass have also decided to slash orders for the new Armata tank, and instead continue using older, Soviet-designed models for a few more years.
There is no word on the fate of other grand projects that Russian military leaders have claimed to have on the drawing boards. These include plans for a super-sized aircraft carrier that would dwarf the US Nimitz class, and a fleet of enormous supersonic transport planes that could deliver up to 400 tanks anywhere in the world. [Editor's note: The original version mischaracterized the carrying capacity of the transport planes.]
"Despite all these soaring plans, I think we see a bit of reason taking hold in the Russian military establishment," says Mr. Golts. "Even if there were no economic crisis, and no sanctions, this massively expensive rearmament program would not be what Russia needs right now. Scaling it back is a wise move."
The Kremlin is cutting its initial production of the Sukhoi T-50 fighter by 75 percent amid cost overruns and rumored technical concerns – the same kind of issues that have plagued US development of the F-35.
By Fred Weir, Correspondent MARCH 27, 2015
Alexei Druzhinin/RIA-Novosti/Pool/AP/FileView Caption
MOSCOW — Russia's ambitious T-50 fighter plane project was meant to develop a rival to two futuristic US jetfighters, the F-22 Raptor and the planned F-35 Lightning-II.
But now, the T-50 appears to be rivaling the F-35 another way: in development troubles. The Kremlin is slamming the brakes on its "fifth generation" fighter program and cutting its initial rollout to a quarter of those originally planned.
The decision seems a setback for Vladimir Putin's sweeping $800 billion rearmament program, a vital component of the wider effort to restore Russia to its Soviet-era status as a major global superpower. However, the sharp slowdown in plans to procure the sophisticated new jet may represent an outbreak of wisdom on the part of Russian military chiefs, who will remember how the USSR was driven into bankruptcy by engaging in an all-out arms race with the US.
Financial constraints are the key reason cited for cutting the military order from 52 to 12 of the planes over the next few years, according to the Moscow daily Kommersant.
"Given the new economic conditions, the original plans may have to be adjusted," the paper quotes Deputy Defense Minister Yuriy Borisov as saying. The project to build a cutting-edge fighter plane, which is partly financed by India, will not be canceled, but held in abeyance while the Russian Air Force makes the most of its existing "fourth generation" MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft, he added.
No one knows whether technical problems may also have played a role in the decision to shelve the fighter.
"We may suppose there are problems, but hard information is lacking," says Alexander Golts, an independent military expert. "For instance, the prototypes of this plane have been using an old engine, pending the development of the engine it needs. Has that been developed yet? We have no idea."
The only operational "fifth generation" fighter in the world is the US F-22. Its production was canceled in 2009, after fewer than 200 of the hyper-expensive planes had been built. American military services are now awaiting the arrival of the newer and also hugely overpriced F-35, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter, but that program has been dogged with serious delays and technical failures.
The T-50, an advanced stealth plane with many capabilities lacking in previous fighters, has prompted some alarm in the West. The Russians have presented the project as an example of how they are able to leapfrog over the lost years, after Russia's military-industrial complex collapsed along with the Soviet Union, and field 21st century weapons that can rival the best the US has to offer.
Most of the weaponry that's currently in Russia's military inventory are Soviet-era designs that have evolved to incorporate new technology. Only three projects currently in the testing phase have been entirely developed by post-Soviet Russia. They are the T-50, the recently unveiled T-14 Armata tank, and the Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile.
Recent reports suggest that Russian military brass have also decided to slash orders for the new Armata tank, and instead continue using older, Soviet-designed models for a few more years.
There is no word on the fate of other grand projects that Russian military leaders have claimed to have on the drawing boards. These include plans for a super-sized aircraft carrier that would dwarf the US Nimitz class, and a fleet of enormous supersonic transport planes that could deliver up to 400 tanks anywhere in the world. [Editor's note: The original version mischaracterized the carrying capacity of the transport planes.]
"Despite all these soaring plans, I think we see a bit of reason taking hold in the Russian military establishment," says Mr. Golts. "Even if there were no economic crisis, and no sanctions, this massively expensive rearmament program would not be what Russia needs right now. Scaling it back is a wise move."
Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Carlo M. Cipolla
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Como tu és maldoso Santiago......Penguin escreveu:Grounded? Russia's answer to US next-gen fighter hits the skids.
The Kremlin is cutting its initial production of the Sukhoi T-50 fighter by 75 percent amid cost overruns and rumored technical concerns – the same kind of issues that have plagued US development of the F-35.
By Fred Weir, Correspondent MARCH 27, 2015
Alexei Druzhinin/RIA-Novosti/Pool/AP/FileView Caption
MOSCOW — Russia's ambitious T-50 fighter plane project was meant to develop a rival to two futuristic US jetfighters, the F-22 Raptor and the planned F-35 Lightning-II.
But now, the T-50 appears to be rivaling the F-35 another way: in development troubles. The Kremlin is slamming the brakes on its "fifth generation" fighter program and cutting its initial rollout to a quarter of those originally planned.
The decision seems a setback for Vladimir Putin's sweeping $800 billion rearmament program, a vital component of the wider effort to restore Russia to its Soviet-era status as a major global superpower. However, the sharp slowdown in plans to procure the sophisticated new jet may represent an outbreak of wisdom on the part of Russian military chiefs, who will remember how the USSR was driven into bankruptcy by engaging in an all-out arms race with the US.
Financial constraints are the key reason cited for cutting the military order from 52 to 12 of the planes over the next few years, according to the Moscow daily Kommersant.
"Given the new economic conditions, the original plans may have to be adjusted," the paper quotes Deputy Defense Minister Yuriy Borisov as saying. The project to build a cutting-edge fighter plane, which is partly financed by India, will not be canceled, but held in abeyance while the Russian Air Force makes the most of its existing "fourth generation" MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft, he added.
No one knows whether technical problems may also have played a role in the decision to shelve the fighter.
"We may suppose there are problems, but hard information is lacking," says Alexander Golts, an independent military expert. "For instance, the prototypes of this plane have been using an old engine, pending the development of the engine it needs. Has that been developed yet? We have no idea."
The only operational "fifth generation" fighter in the world is the US F-22. Its production was canceled in 2009, after fewer than 200 of the hyper-expensive planes had been built. American military services are now awaiting the arrival of the newer and also hugely overpriced F-35, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter, but that program has been dogged with serious delays and technical failures.
The T-50, an advanced stealth plane with many capabilities lacking in previous fighters, has prompted some alarm in the West. The Russians have presented the project as an example of how they are able to leapfrog over the lost years, after Russia's military-industrial complex collapsed along with the Soviet Union, and field 21st century weapons that can rival the best the US has to offer.
Most of the weaponry that's currently in Russia's military inventory are Soviet-era designs that have evolved to incorporate new technology. Only three projects currently in the testing phase have been entirely developed by post-Soviet Russia. They are the T-50, the recently unveiled T-14 Armata tank, and the Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile.
Recent reports suggest that Russian military brass have also decided to slash orders for the new Armata tank, and instead continue using older, Soviet-designed models for a few more years.
There is no word on the fate of other grand projects that Russian military leaders have claimed to have on the drawing boards. These include plans for a super-sized aircraft carrier that would dwarf the US Nimitz class, and a fleet of enormous supersonic transport planes that could deliver up to 400 tanks anywhere in the world. [Editor's note: The original version mischaracterized the carrying capacity of the transport planes.]
"Despite all these soaring plans, I think we see a bit of reason taking hold in the Russian military establishment," says Mr. Golts. "Even if there were no economic crisis, and no sanctions, this massively expensive rearmament program would not be what Russia needs right now. Scaling it back is a wise move."
Grande abraço
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Veja como a questão econômica é capaz de provocar um "chá de bom senso" até nos russos ... tá óbvio que o T-50 de stealth tem o nome e olhe lá ... claro que levaria muito mais tempo para se desenvolver um avião que rivalize com F-22 ... ora, não basta pegar a plataforma e motores do SU-27 e "meter um design diferente de avião com radome em formato de losango e pronto ...Penguin escreveu:Grounded? Russia's answer to US next-gen fighter hits the skids.
The Kremlin is cutting its initial production of the Sukhoi T-50 fighter by 75 percent amid cost overruns and rumored technical concerns – the same kind of issues that have plagued US development of the F-35.
By Fred Weir, Correspondent MARCH 27, 2015
Alexei Druzhinin/RIA-Novosti/Pool/AP/FileView Caption
MOSCOW — Russia's ambitious T-50 fighter plane project was meant to develop a rival to two futuristic US jetfighters, the F-22 Raptor and the planned F-35 Lightning-II.
But now, the T-50 appears to be rivaling the F-35 another way: in development troubles. The Kremlin is slamming the brakes on its "fifth generation" fighter program and cutting its initial rollout to a quarter of those originally planned.
The decision seems a setback for Vladimir Putin's sweeping $800 billion rearmament program, a vital component of the wider effort to restore Russia to its Soviet-era status as a major global superpower. However, the sharp slowdown in plans to procure the sophisticated new jet may represent an outbreak of wisdom on the part of Russian military chiefs, who will remember how the USSR was driven into bankruptcy by engaging in an all-out arms race with the US.
Financial constraints are the key reason cited for cutting the military order from 52 to 12 of the planes over the next few years, according to the Moscow daily Kommersant.
"Given the new economic conditions, the original plans may have to be adjusted," the paper quotes Deputy Defense Minister Yuriy Borisov as saying. The project to build a cutting-edge fighter plane, which is partly financed by India, will not be canceled, but held in abeyance while the Russian Air Force makes the most of its existing "fourth generation" MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft, he added.
No one knows whether technical problems may also have played a role in the decision to shelve the fighter.
"We may suppose there are problems, but hard information is lacking," says Alexander Golts, an independent military expert. "For instance, the prototypes of this plane have been using an old engine, pending the development of the engine it needs. Has that been developed yet? We have no idea."
The only operational "fifth generation" fighter in the world is the US F-22. Its production was canceled in 2009, after fewer than 200 of the hyper-expensive planes had been built. American military services are now awaiting the arrival of the newer and also hugely overpriced F-35, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter, but that program has been dogged with serious delays and technical failures.
The T-50, an advanced stealth plane with many capabilities lacking in previous fighters, has prompted some alarm in the West. The Russians have presented the project as an example of how they are able to leapfrog over the lost years, after Russia's military-industrial complex collapsed along with the Soviet Union, and field 21st century weapons that can rival the best the US has to offer.
Most of the weaponry that's currently in Russia's military inventory are Soviet-era designs that have evolved to incorporate new technology. Only three projects currently in the testing phase have been entirely developed by post-Soviet Russia. They are the T-50, the recently unveiled T-14 Armata tank, and the Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile.
Recent reports suggest that Russian military brass have also decided to slash orders for the new Armata tank, and instead continue using older, Soviet-designed models for a few more years.
There is no word on the fate of other grand projects that Russian military leaders have claimed to have on the drawing boards. These include plans for a super-sized aircraft carrier that would dwarf the US Nimitz class, and a fleet of enormous supersonic transport planes that could deliver up to 400 tanks anywhere in the world. [Editor's note: The original version mischaracterized the carrying capacity of the transport planes.]
"Despite all these soaring plans, I think we see a bit of reason taking hold in the Russian military establishment," says Mr. Golts. "Even if there were no economic crisis, and no sanctions, this massively expensive rearmament program would not be what Russia needs right now. Scaling it back is a wise move."
Mas é isso aí, preço do petróleo lá em baixo ... bom senso lá em cima !
PS: Favor deletar o parágrafo sobre os supercargueiros supersônicos russos para transportar 400 tanques ... daqui uns dias vira verdade indiscutível ...
Editado pela última vez por kirk em Qui Abr 02, 2015 12:16 am, em um total de 2 vezes.
[] kirk
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Tem um amigo meu que chama "Jizuiz" ... ele vive falando ... "o tempo é o Senhor de todas as verdades" ... pois é !juarez castro escreveu:Como tu és maldoso Santiago......Penguin escreveu:Grounded? Russia's answer to US next-gen fighter hits the skids.
The Kremlin is cutting its initial production of the Sukhoi T-50 fighter by 75 percent amid cost overruns and rumored technical concerns – the same kind of issues that have plagued US development of the F-35.
By Fred Weir, Correspondent MARCH 27, 2015
Alexei Druzhinin/RIA-Novosti/Pool/AP/FileView Caption
MOSCOW — Russia's ambitious T-50 fighter plane project was meant to develop a rival to two futuristic US jetfighters, the F-22 Raptor and the planned F-35 Lightning-II.
But now, the T-50 appears to be rivaling the F-35 another way: in development troubles. The Kremlin is slamming the brakes on its "fifth generation" fighter program and cutting its initial rollout to a quarter of those originally planned.
The decision seems a setback for Vladimir Putin's sweeping $800 billion rearmament program, a vital component of the wider effort to restore Russia to its Soviet-era status as a major global superpower. However, the sharp slowdown in plans to procure the sophisticated new jet may represent an outbreak of wisdom on the part of Russian military chiefs, who will remember how the USSR was driven into bankruptcy by engaging in an all-out arms race with the US.
Financial constraints are the key reason cited for cutting the military order from 52 to 12 of the planes over the next few years, according to the Moscow daily Kommersant.
"Given the new economic conditions, the original plans may have to be adjusted," the paper quotes Deputy Defense Minister Yuriy Borisov as saying. The project to build a cutting-edge fighter plane, which is partly financed by India, will not be canceled, but held in abeyance while the Russian Air Force makes the most of its existing "fourth generation" MiG and Sukhoi combat aircraft, he added.
No one knows whether technical problems may also have played a role in the decision to shelve the fighter.
"We may suppose there are problems, but hard information is lacking," says Alexander Golts, an independent military expert. "For instance, the prototypes of this plane have been using an old engine, pending the development of the engine it needs. Has that been developed yet? We have no idea."
The only operational "fifth generation" fighter in the world is the US F-22. Its production was canceled in 2009, after fewer than 200 of the hyper-expensive planes had been built. American military services are now awaiting the arrival of the newer and also hugely overpriced F-35, also known as the Joint Strike Fighter, but that program has been dogged with serious delays and technical failures.
The T-50, an advanced stealth plane with many capabilities lacking in previous fighters, has prompted some alarm in the West. The Russians have presented the project as an example of how they are able to leapfrog over the lost years, after Russia's military-industrial complex collapsed along with the Soviet Union, and field 21st century weapons that can rival the best the US has to offer.
Most of the weaponry that's currently in Russia's military inventory are Soviet-era designs that have evolved to incorporate new technology. Only three projects currently in the testing phase have been entirely developed by post-Soviet Russia. They are the T-50, the recently unveiled T-14 Armata tank, and the Bulava submarine-launched ballistic missile.
Recent reports suggest that Russian military brass have also decided to slash orders for the new Armata tank, and instead continue using older, Soviet-designed models for a few more years.
There is no word on the fate of other grand projects that Russian military leaders have claimed to have on the drawing boards. These include plans for a super-sized aircraft carrier that would dwarf the US Nimitz class, and a fleet of enormous supersonic transport planes that could deliver up to 400 tanks anywhere in the world. [Editor's note: The original version mischaracterized the carrying capacity of the transport planes.]
"Despite all these soaring plans, I think we see a bit of reason taking hold in the Russian military establishment," says Mr. Golts. "Even if there were no economic crisis, and no sanctions, this massively expensive rearmament program would not be what Russia needs right now. Scaling it back is a wise move."
Grande abraço
PS: Jizuiz É UM HOMEM BOM !!!
[] kirk
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
- mmatuso
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Todos esses últimos posts só provam que russos estão enganado e que vão trocar o cargueiro supersonico por caças da Saab.
- Bolovo
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- cabeça de martelo
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Re: PAK FA - VOOU!!!
Como não? As turbinas, o tamanho XXL, o facto de ser biturbina, etc, tudo coisas tipicamente Russas.