Fórum Defesa Brasil

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Eu lembro desta mesma cantilena quando anunciaram o BM. Que nunca ia voar, que era de papel, wishfull-thinking, e blá, blá, blá.
Quando o protótipo apareceu na MAKS disseram qu era um mock-up apenas, que levaria anos prá voar. Aí, logo em seguida vou o primeiro e depois o segundo.
Até hoje nunca vi uma palavra desse pessoal reconhecendo que falaram coisas sem saber, prá dizer o mínimo.

E nem vai, Carlos, até porque "reconhecimento" é uma palavra que existe apenas nos dicionários dos homens, mas não existe na prática (atitudes).


Abração,

Orestes

O ministro Sergey Ivanov acaba de anunciar que o primeiro PAk voa em 2009 e que um protótipo está quase pronto para os testes em terra.

Russia's next-generation warplane to make maiden flight in 2009
19:51 | 21/ 01/ 2009



ASTRAKHAN, January 21 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's first fifth-generation warplane will make its maiden flight before the end of this year, the deputy prime minister in charge of arms procurement said on Wednesday.

"We expect the plane to take to the skies no later than the end of this year," Sergei Ivanov told a news conference after a meeting of the Military-Industrial Commission.

Earlier plans set 2010 for the first tests of the new fighter, which will feature high maneuverability and stealth to ensure air superiority and precision in destroying ground and sea targets.

Russia's advanced multirole fighter is being developed by Sukhoi, which is part of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), along with India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), under a preliminary intergovernmental agreement signed in October 2007.

Russia and India will simultaneously develop two versions of the combat aircraft - a two-seat version to meet the requirements of India's air superiority doctrine, and a single-seat version for the Russian Air Force.

The Russian version will be built at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur aircraft-manufacturing plant in Russia's Far East.

Ivanov said the plant had almost completed the construction of a first prototype of the fifth-generation fighter, but it will undergo only durability tests on the ground at a research facility in Zhukovsky near Moscow.

However, a second prototype will be built and will take to the skies by the end of this year, he said.

Ivanov also said on Wednesday that the aircraft manufacturing industry should review and adjust some testing programs and methods due to advanced nature of the new aircraft.

E nós escolehndo Gripen-NGhost.

E quando é que sai a foto da criatura?

soultrain escreveu:Russia & CIS Observer / Archive / ?1 (20) February 2008 / Defense / Sukhoi Starts Construction of Next-generation T-50 Prototype

Russia's Sukhoi combat aircraft manufacturer is entering a new phase of development with the country's fifth generation fighter, known as T-50 or PAK FA. In late 2007, Sukhoi's manufacturing facility in Komsomolsk-on-Amur started cutting metal for the T-50 prototype airframes. According to Sukhoi's press statement, maiden flight of the initial prototype is now scheduled for 2009, which apparently is a one-year slip compared to the program's earlier planning.
The first T-50 prototypes reportedly will be equipped with NPO Saturn's Article 117 engines, a major upgrade of the existing Al-31FP that now powers Su-27/Su-30 fighters. In 2006, the Russian Defense Ministry announced an engine demonstrator tender to choose the powerplant designer for production PAK FAs, which are expected to appear in 2015. The tender is to be finalized in 2009, with the NPO Saturn and Salyut engine designers identified as major contenders.
A less-advanced variant of the engine, the Article 117S, already powers another Sukhoi product — the Su-35 single-seat multirole fighter, which will serve an interim Su-27 upgrade until the PAK FA eventually enters service. It has a thrust of 14.5 metric tons (about two tons more than basic Al-31F). First flight of the Su-35 scheduled for the beginning of 2008.
At the Moscow MAKS 2007 air show last August, a few elements for the T-50 were displayed. Radar developer NIIP Tikhomirov demonstrated active-array X-band technology destined for this new generation combat aircraft. The Tactical Missile Corporation showed its Kh-38M and the Kh-58UShK air-to-surface missiles designs, both of which have folding fins for internal carriage - an important element for a stealthy fighter.
But Sukhoi's future twin-engine Flanker-class fighter is not the only new-generation combat aircraft project in Russia. According to Alexey Fedorov, head of the United Aircraft Corporation, another aircraft designer -MiG Corp. - is developing a lightweight multi-role frontal aircraft (LMFS), which is said to be similar to the US Joint Strike Fighter. While the PAK FA will replace Russian Air Force's Su-27s, the service's MiG-29 Fulcrum is to be succeeded by the LMFS. Development of the LMFS would follow the PAK FA, with a first prototype flight planned for 2016-17. Fedorov declined to say if the Russian air force is providing financing for the project, saying only that "the Air Force has interest in the light advanced fighter."

Eu Publiquei no FX-2, mas ele nem foi notado entao resolvi publicar aqui tambem.

Aproveitando o documento do nosso amigo, o caça de 5 geração pleiteado pelo Brasil esta muito proximo deste produzido pela MIG, creio que teremos surpresas nos próximos anos e estou convicto de que ela será Russa e não se chamará PaK-Fa.

According to Alexey Fedorov, head of the United Aircraft Corporation, another aircraft designer — MiG Corp. — is developing a lightweight multi-role frontal aircraft (LMFS) , which is said to be similar to the US Joint Strike Fighter. While the PAK FA will replace Russian Air Force's Su-27s, the service's MiG-29 Fulcrum is to be succeeded by the LMFS. Development of the LMFS would follow the PAK FA, with a first prototype flight planned for 2016-17.

Abraço.

zela escreveu:E quando é que sai a foto da criatura?

Creio que a concepção ficará proximo a isto, muito provávelmente.

Essa aí é a foto do F-22, mas deve ficar bem semelhante mesmo.

Isto mesmo....



Esta concepção parece ser a mais aceita, claro, sempre pode existir uma surpresa.

Gaitero

Eu Publiquei no FX-2, mas ele nem foi notado entao resolvi publicar aqui tambem.

Aproveitando o documento do nosso amigo, o caça de 5 geração pleiteado pelo Brasil esta muito proximo deste produzido pela MIG, creio que teremos surpresas nos próximos anos e estou convicto de que ela será Russa e não se chamará PaK-Fa.

According to Alexey Fedorov, head of the United Aircraft Corporation, another aircraft designer — MiG Corp. — is developing a lightweight multi-role frontal aircraft (LMFS) , which is said to be similar to the US Joint Strike Fighter. While the PAK FA will replace Russian Air Force's Su-27s, the service's MiG-29 Fulcrum is to be succeeded by the LMFS. Development of the LMFS would follow the PAK FA, with a first prototype flight planned for 2016-17.

Abraço.

Caro Gaitero,ja que voce esta se informando sobre esse assunto,vou colocar um episódio,só para tentar mostrar ao pessoal que não se trata de ficção.
Eu nunca falei sobre isso aqui no DB,pois as vezes pode ficar parecendo conversinha e istórinha Quando da 1.a viajem do MD Jobim a Europa e Russia,em um domingo,eu estava em um almoço,aqui em São Paulo,e nesse almoço me foi apresentado um cidadão Russo de férias no Brasil com a esposa.Tratava-se de um Matemático,Fisico,Engenheiro Espacial,que naquele momento trabalhava no Projeto do Mig35. Com a ajuda de sua esposa que ja havia morado no Brasil,pude "ter" uma "conversa" com ele acompanhada de algumas caipirinhas de Vodka,e como todo curioso "primário" fiz aquelas indagações típicas de "amantes do tema" mas "amadores no conteúdo" e algumas delas foram:

Sobre a facilidade da Russia,em transferir tecnologia em uma parceria com o Brasil
Ele riu,e disse que achava dificil acontecer com o Brasil que nunca teve negocios nessa area com eles,mas podia acontecer mas ia custar caro,e que as tranferencias até então feitas a China e India,estavam sendo feitas em "camadas" e que quanto mais se avançava nas camadas, mais caras elas ficavam.E para mim não me iludir pois nem tudo era "desprotegido",mesmo com contratos rígidos,muitos cuidados eram tomados.

Sobre a parceria no Pakfa,ele foi reticente,inclusive (na época) se haveria parceria com a India.Eles haviam apresentado o MiG35,demonstrador na India e ele dava a disputa naquela concorrencia como dura,e sem prognósticos.Mas afirmou categoricamente que o Pakfa sairia com ou sem parceiros,pois era um projeto do estado Russo.
E ai ele citou que havia um outro projeto de 5.aG do Bureau da MIG,que deveria usar alguns desenvolvimentos em curso no MIG35,inclusive uma versão da turbina vetorada e radar,que já estava caminhando a algum tempo.
Eu falei que desconhecia isso,nunca tinha ouvido falar; ele simplesmente me respondeu,que a estrutura da industria aeronáutica Russa estava se modificando,tanto que ele e outros colegas cientistas trabalhavam em empresas do tipo "prestadora de serviços" para cada parte especifica do projeto MIG35,havendo outros grupos trabalhando assim também.Que era idéia do governo fortalecer os dois maiores centros desenvolvedores de projetos aeronáuticos,a MIG e a Sukoi,fazendo com que eles se desenvolvessem fortes,em paralelo,e que por isso da existencia de outro projeto de 5g,mais "leve" aguardando a chancela oficial,ou investidores.

Esse "projeto" existe,não é "papo" para a imprensa do Alexey Fedorov,confirmado por alguem que trabalha lá também.
Agora o Brasil participar dele,vai uma fila de caminhões lotados de otimismo e sonhos. Deus faça.

Sds

Um tempo depois ele me mandou isso por e-mail:

MiG Pushes Ahead With Light Fighter
Aviation Week & Space Technology
09/11/2006, page 34
Douglas Barrie
London

Russian air force recognizes Sukhoi T-50 design alone will not meet future fighter needs


Printed headline: Generation Gap


Russian combat aircraft manufacturer MiG could have a prototype of a lightweight fifth-generation fighter ready as soon as 2010, building on classified design work it has been carrying out for several years.

The MiG design, sometimes known within the company as the Light Multifunction Frontal Aircraft (LMFS),is to provide a successor aircraft in the class of the MiG-29 Fulcrum.

Russian air force chief Vladimir Mikhailov confirms the service now intends to pursue two designs, rather than a single, to meet next-generation fighter needs. Sukhoi was initially selected to develop the T-50 as the air force's future fighter. This aircraft, however, is a heavy fighter in the class of the Sukhoi Su-27 Flanker. Mikhailov is quoted in the Russian press as saying MiG will develop a light-fighter to complement the Sukhoi design.

THE SHIFT TO FAVOR a two-tier approach to future fighter procurement reflects a victory for senior management at MiG. Company executives have been lobbying the air force to promote this strategy for several years. "People are beginning to understand the need for a second type of fighter," one senior MiG executive told Aviation Week & Space Technology.

Russian air force "endorsement" will also help MiG in the export arena. Both MiG and Sukhoi have already briefed India on their respective fifth-generation fighter programs. New Delhi, however, is unlikely to opt for a Russian aircraft that is not--at least tacitly--supported by the military in Moscow.

MiG had originally been the incumbent designer to provide a successor to the Su-27, with the 1.42 Multi-role Frontal Fighter (MFI). Conceived in the latter years of the Cold War, one prototype of the 30-ton fighter was to be completed before cancellation in 1997.


MiG is working on a fifth-generation design in the same weight class as its MiG-29 Fulcrum, which the company is also continuing to upgrade. Credit: MiG

The collapse of the MFI program eventually turned MiG's attention to a direct Fulcrum replacement, though until comparatively recently the company's precarious finances were not able to support a full-scale development program. As far as LMFS is concerned, MiG has yet to receive any state support.

One company official says all work so far on the light fifth-generation fighter is being financed from its own funds.

Various configurations have been wind-tunnel tested. A company source suggests it is settling on a twin-engine design, with a dry weight of around 10 tons. The design includes thrust vector control, along with a "big wing" to increase maneuverability. Inward and outward canted fin variants of the basic design have also been examined, as has a tail-less configuration. A prototype, he suggests, could be completed within 30 months, with adequate funding. Engine manufacturer Klimov submitted a proposal for an engine for the LMFS earlier this year.

Many of the avionics and weapons systems in development for the T-50, or the PAK FA, as it is sometimes referred to, will also be applicable to MiG's light fighter.

In terms of air-to-air armament, Vympel, now part of Russia's Tactical Missile Corp., is working on upgrades of presently fielded weapons, as well as successor designs. Gennady Sokolovsky, Vympel's general director until recently, revealed some of its plans at a conference in Moscow earlier this year. Sokolovsky appears to have revealed more than either the Russian Defense Ministry or Vympel intended because company officials remain reticent to discuss several of the program designations Sokolovsky detailed.

THE COMPANY IS WORKING on a new short-range air-to-air missile, referred to as K-MD and Izdeliye (Item) 300. This program likely corresponds to the K-30 designation. This weapon is to enter service in the first half of the next decade. Further development of the R-73 design continues--likely as a stopgap, and also for export.

Vympel is working on a substantial upgrade of its R-77 (AA-12 Adder) radar-guided air-to-air missile, likely in line with the Izdeliye 180/K-77M designations. This may see the missile's signature lattice control fins replaced by conventional surfaces. Range will also be increased, and an upgraded radar seeker and improved electronic countermeasures will be included.

The Russian air force has only a limited stock of the basic R-77, likely drawn from production runs of the export version of the missile, known as RVV-AE.

While the Izdeliye 300 and the Izdeliye 180 will be applicable to the LMFS, the third class of AAM alluded to by Sokolovksy will be limited to the PAK FA, and possibly the MiG-31 Foxhound. Izdeliye 810 is a long-range AAM in the class of the R-33/K-37 (AA-9 Amos/AA-X-13).

É isto mesmo Bender, tenho um grande amigo de tempos e ainda hoje ele é bastante ligado àos assuntos estratégicos da FAB, volta e meia ele solta uma noticia. Foi ele que me disse que havia outra possibilidade Russa, então eu começei a frequentar sites Russos, Paquistaneses, Indianos, com o objetivo de vislumbrar qual seria a tal possibilidade. Foi assim que acabei por encontrar todos estes detalher por ti citados.

Eu tambem acho muito dificil o Brasil entrar no LMFS, mas acho que já foi mais dificil, hoje não creio que seja apenas um sonho, mas para isto é necessário que a END seja posta em pratica e que realmente tenhamos vontade e grana para bancar um projeto como este.

Abraço

Esse "caça leve de quinta geração russo" gostei, não sei nada sobre o bichinho, mas já conquistou o meu coração. Agora, só falta conquistar a minha mente. Acredito que a FAB e a MB podem pensar em uns 300-400 entre 2020 e 2050

E cadê maiores informações sobre esse caça misterioso, heim???

O primeiro protótiplo deverá voar em 2016-17..

O que você quer que eu te diga sobre o caça.........

Só saberemos daqui a alguns bons anos.

Algumas informacoes sobre o PAK-FA, o envolvimento indiano e a entrada em servico do seu derivado "Russo/Indiano".


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... er-by.html

India and Russia aim to fly joint fifth-generation fighter by 2017
By Siva Govindasamy

India and Russia hope to induct their joint fifth-generation stealth fighter by 2017, with officials from both countries hoping to iron out their differences in the coming months and sign a development contract by mid-2009.

"There have been differences between the two air forces, as both have specific requirements," says M Fakruddin, director for corporate planning and marketing at Hindustan Aeronautics. HAL will lead the Indian side of the programme. "These issues will be sorted out soon and by the middle of the year we expect to start work so that the aircraft is inducted by 2017."

The countries began talks in 2007 to develop a fifth-generation fighter based on the Sukhoi PAK-FA, which Russia hopes will have its first flight by the end of 2009 and is pegged as a challenger to the Lockheed Martin F-22 and Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Last year HAL and Russian arms export agency Rosoboronexport agreed to study the joint development of a fighter. Since then, however, there have been differences over the aircraft's design and New Delhi's level of involvement in the project.

"Two major issues must be resolved. India was asked to invest a lot of money, but is unhappy with the level of access to sensitive technology that the Russians plan to give in return. In addition, the Indian air force is keen on a two-seat fighter, while Russia prefers to focus on a single-seater," says a New Delhi-based observer.

Moscow, India's main arms supplier, accounts for around 70% of the country's weapons inventory. Over recent years it has allowed HAL to licence-produce the Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter, co-operated in the ongoing development of the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile, and plans to work on a joint multirole transport aircraft. However, defence ties have strained over the fifth-generation fighter programme and the rising cost of refurbishing the ex-Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian navy.

Trials of an air-launched version of the Brahmos cruise missile are expected to start this year using an Su-30MKI, with the Indian air force expecting to have its first squadron equipped with the long-range weapon by 2012. India's Defence Research and Development Organisation is investigating the failed test firing of a ground-launched version of the missile on 20 January, with initial reports suggesting that the weapon's on-board computing system failed to link with its US-sourced GPS navigation system.

India's increasingly warm ties with the USA and Europe have led to some domestic commentators calling on their government to rely less on Russia, and its RSK MiG-35 faces a tough fight against the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 and Saab Gripen in New Delhi's $10-12 billion medium multirole combat aircraft contest.

In-country evaluations of the bidding types are expected to begin in May. Indian air force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major believes it is going to be a long process. "Technical evaluation of six top-of-the-line fighter aircraft is a very complex job," he says. New Delhi hopes to conclude the tender by 2010 and to induct the selected aircraft from 2012, although several industry observers expect delays.

[]s
CB_Lima

De bobo os russos não tem nada...

cb_lima escreveu:Algumas informacoes sobre o PAK-FA, o envolvimento indiano e a entrada em servico do seu derivado "Russo/Indiano".


http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... er-by.html

India and Russia aim to fly joint fifth-generation fighter by 2017
By Siva Govindasamy

India and Russia hope to induct their joint fifth-generation stealth fighter by 2017, with officials from both countries hoping to iron out their differences in the coming months and sign a development contract by mid-2009.

"There have been differences between the two air forces, as both have specific requirements," says M Fakruddin, director for corporate planning and marketing at Hindustan Aeronautics. HAL will lead the Indian side of the programme. "These issues will be sorted out soon and by the middle of the year we expect to start work so that the aircraft is inducted by 2017."

The countries began talks in 2007 to develop a fifth-generation fighter based on the Sukhoi PAK-FA, which Russia hopes will have its first flight by the end of 2009 and is pegged as a challenger to the Lockheed Martin F-22 and Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Last year HAL and Russian arms export agency Rosoboronexport agreed to study the joint development of a fighter. Since then, however, there have been differences over the aircraft's design and New Delhi's level of involvement in the project.

"Two major issues must be resolved. India was asked to invest a lot of money, but is unhappy with the level of access to sensitive technology that the Russians plan to give in return. In addition, the Indian air force is keen on a two-seat fighter, while Russia prefers to focus on a single-seater," says a New Delhi-based observer.

Moscow, India's main arms supplier, accounts for around 70% of the country's weapons inventory. Over recent years it has allowed HAL to licence-produce the Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter, co-operated in the ongoing development of the Brahmos supersonic cruise missile, and plans to work on a joint multirole transport aircraft. However, defence ties have strained over the fifth-generation fighter programme and the rising cost of refurbishing the ex-Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian navy.

Trials of an air-launched version of the Brahmos cruise missile are expected to start this year using an Su-30MKI, with the Indian air force expecting to have its first squadron equipped with the long-range weapon by 2012. India's Defence Research and Development Organisation is investigating the failed test firing of a ground-launched version of the missile on 20 January, with initial reports suggesting that the weapon's on-board computing system failed to link with its US-sourced GPS navigation system.

India's increasingly warm ties with the USA and Europe have led to some domestic commentators calling on their government to rely less on Russia, and its RSK MiG-35 faces a tough fight against the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16 and Saab Gripen in New Delhi's $10-12 billion medium multirole combat aircraft contest.

In-country evaluations of the bidding types are expected to begin in May. Indian air force chief Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major believes it is going to be a long process. "Technical evaluation of six top-of-the-line fighter aircraft is a very complex job," he says. New Delhi hopes to conclude the tender by 2010 and to induct the selected aircraft from 2012, although several industry observers expect delays.

[]s
CB_Lima

Russian fifth generation fighter will gather in Brazil

Russia does not exclude the participation of Brazil in the production license of the fifth generation fighter aircraft of Russian development. The statement was made by RIA Novosti Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FS VTS) Alexander Fomin. According to him, negotiations on the exchange of technology and the establishment of a Brazilian site for the assembly and the licensed production of promising military aircraft are maintained to the largest aircraft manufacturing corporation that country's Embraer. While the process is at an early stage.

Develop forward-looking set of front-line aviation aircraft (PAK FA), which creates a new Russian fifth generation fighter, a number of domestic design bureau in the late 1980's, when he first made the requirements for this aircraft. In the long term it should replace the MiG-29 fighters and Su-27 fighter and the main Russian army in the present century. The first flight of the machine, tentatively to be held in 2009.

In parallel, the Russian side has entered into an agreement with India, according to which the specialists of the two countries will jointly develop a fifth generation fighter aircraft, based on the PAC FA. Russian Air Force plans to adopt a single version of the new aircraft, Air India and expect to double fighter, since according to military doctrine, he must fulfill a broader range of tasks.

Note that the Russian "Komsomolsk-on-Amur aviation production merger of Yuri Gagarin," which is scheduled to run in serial production of new Russian fighter planes, at the end of last year, there vnutrizavodskoy conflict.Workers need to raise their salaries, while the leadership intends to dismiss a large number of specialists.

Brazilian aircraft company Embraer is one of the most successful manufacturers of combat aircraft in its region.In particular, it became famous for the popular training martial Tucano aircraft and Super Tucano, the use of the army of many nations.About the intention to lease these cars recently announced leadership the United States Navy. The American military expects that the Super Tucano will be used to support special forces carrying out combat tasks in irregular conflict.

Source: news agency "Lenta.Ru"
Published: 07.04.2009, 12:04

RF allows the participation of Brazil in the production of fighter 5 th generation

10:55 07/04/2009

MOSCOW, April 7 - RIA Novosti, Sergey Safronov. Russia does not exclude the participation of Brazil in the production license of the fifth generation fighter aircraft, RIA Novosti said the first deputy director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FS VTS) Alexander Fomin.

At present, Russia is developing the fifth generation of aircraft - forward-looking set of front-line aviation aircraft (PAK FA, T-50, Item 701, Fighter 21).Russian fighter aircraft developed by a consortium comprising the Mikoyan design bureau, Yakovlev and Sukhoi.First flight PAK FA scheduled for this year, and its serial production - in 2012-2015. Fighter is also planned to supply for export.

"With the well-known Brazilian aircraft company Embraer" (Embraer - Empresa Brasileira de Aeron? Utica SA) we are discussing the exchange of technology transfer, creation-based corporate site for assembly and production license in the future of aviation. It is about a future direction, as Russian fifth generation fighter aircraft. This is in the initial stage, at the level of theory. But we'll admit, "- said Fomin.

According to him, the possible points of convergence and in other areas, for example, on a naval theme.

"Participation of (Brazilian) industry, and this is their claim, not only in the maintenance of helicopters Mi-35M, but the military-transport helicopters type MI-17 MI-8, which also have the perspective of Latin America, including also on the Brazilian market ", - said Fomin.

He noted that the civilian version of these helicopters have already experience in Brazil, other Latin American countries, including at high altitudes and even the South Pole. "From Argentine counterparts, in a joint research South Pole in the interest of the Ministry of Defense of Argentina in addition to our ice-breaking ship, involved helicopters. The helicopter flew to the expedition of 1.5 thousand kilometers and reached the pole. That no one had ever made, a measure of the reliability of our helicopters "- said Fomin.