Fórum Defesa Brasil

tentaram enganar?

epa, os detalhes estão para aí algures, já não me lembro o que era ao certo

É só pesquisar aqui no DB que encontrarás!

Greece to resell German submarine: minister

by Staff Writers
Athens (AFP) March 17, 2010

Greece hopes to earn some 350 million euros (480 million dollars) by reselling a German-built submarine whose delivery was dogged by technical concerns, the Greek defence minister said on Wednesday.
"The Germans are pricing the Papanikolis submarine at 300 million, let us calculate 350 million without being over-optimistic," Defence Minister Evangelos Venizelos told a news conference.

Athens in 2006 had refused to accept delivery of the submarine built by German contractors ThyssenKrupp after Greek Navy inspectors declared it defective during test runs off the port of Kiel.

But Venizelos on Wednesday insisted that "improvements" had been carried out at ThyssenKrupp's HDW shipyards and that the Greek Navy was now prepared to declare the vessel seaworthy.

"This is what (the Navy) have told us, this is what they will tell Greek parliament as well," he said

He added: "This discussion about a listing submarine which we are trying to sell... is harmful to the public interest."

Greece in 2000 had ordered four new 214-class submarines and an overhaul for three of its older 209-class submarines from HDW. Most of the order was to have been carried out at Hellenic Shipyards near Athens, which were acquired by HDW in 2002, three years before it merged with ThyssenKrupp.

Athens has already paid out 2.03 billion euros on the project out of a total estimated cost of 2.84 billion in current prices with nothing to show for it, the minister said.

Venizelos on Wednesday said plans to overhaul two of the older submarines would now be scrapped and that two new submarines would be ordered instead at a cost of 500 million euros apiece.

The Greek government, struggling with a debt crisis and facing a huge effort to restructure the economy, hopes that the submarine deal will smooth the way for ThyssenKrupp to shed 75 percent of its stake in the struggling Greek shipyards to the Abu Dhabi Mar group.

It has said the sale offers a chance to save the jobs of 1,300 workers.

Venizelos also said another "major" project to purchase French frigates would also be carried out.

"A difficult and long negotiation at state and commercial level is ongoing (on the issue)," he said.

------
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Greece_ ... r_999.html
------

Quiron escreveu:Greece to resell German submarine: minister

by Staff Writers
Athens (AFP) March 17, 2010

Greece hopes to earn some 350 million euros (480 million dollars) by reselling a German-built submarine whose delivery was dogged by technical concerns, the Greek defence minister said on Wednesday.
"The Germans are pricing the Papanikolis submarine at 300 million, let us calculate 350 million without being over-optimistic," Defence Minister Evangelos Venizelos told a news conference.

Athens in 2006 had refused to accept delivery of the submarine built by German contractors ThyssenKrupp after Greek Navy inspectors declared it defective during test runs off the port of Kiel.

But Venizelos on Wednesday insisted that "improvements" had been carried out at ThyssenKrupp's HDW shipyards and that the Greek Navy was now prepared to declare the vessel seaworthy.

"This is what (the Navy) have told us, this is what they will tell Greek parliament as well," he said

He added: "This discussion about a listing submarine which we are trying to sell... is harmful to the public interest."

Greece in 2000 had ordered four new 214-class submarines and an overhaul for three of its older 209-class submarines from HDW. Most of the order was to have been carried out at Hellenic Shipyards near Athens, which were acquired by HDW in 2002, three years before it merged with ThyssenKrupp.

Athens has already paid out 2.03 billion euros on the project out of a total estimated cost of 2.84 billion in current prices with nothing to show for it, the minister said.

Venizelos on Wednesday said plans to overhaul two of the older submarines would now be scrapped and that two new submarines would be ordered instead at a cost of 500 million euros apiece.

The Greek government, struggling with a debt crisis and facing a huge effort to restructure the economy, hopes that the submarine deal will smooth the way for ThyssenKrupp to shed 75 percent of its stake in the struggling Greek shipyards to the Abu Dhabi Mar group.

It has said the sale offers a chance to save the jobs of 1,300 workers.

Venizelos also said another "major" project to purchase French frigates would also be carried out.

"A difficult and long negotiation at state and commercial level is ongoing (on the issue)," he said.

------
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Greece_ ... r_999.html
------

Eu fico imaginando qual é o estado de espírito dos submarinistas gregos. ter 4 IKL 214 escapando dos dedos...

não há $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Existe aqui uma certa vingança grega, os alemonios se queixas dos gastos gregos e não querem ajudar, pois então, os gregos devolvem os submarinos alemães sem pagar nada, dizendo, precisamos controlar os gastos!!

[]´s

finalmente compreendi como é que nasceu na língua portuguesa, a expressão "eu vou-me ver grego..."

Calma que a coisa ainda não está 100% arrumada.

Tanta polémica, tanta polémica, e no fim vão "levar" com ele!!!!!

Friday, 8 October 2010

Papanikolis To Be Commissioned in 15th October 2010

If Greek internet news portals and blog are correct then, Greek Navy will commission its first Type 214 class submarine HS Papanikolis on 15th October 2010, after ten years of the signing of her contract. Her sisters will follow Papanikolis in 18, 28 and 38 months intervals.

On 30th September, TKMS the maker of the submarine, Abu Dhabi Mar the owner of the biggest naval yard in Greece and the Greek government ratified an agreement to settle all remaining disputes of Archimedes and Neptune 2 programs.

Archimedes program covered the construction of 4 Type 214 AIP submarines and Neptune 2 program covered the conversion of 3 existing Type 209 class submarines with AIP. The details of these and the problems experienced are well documented here and here.

With the new contract Greek government pledged to pay 1.321 million euros to the TKMS and Abu Dhabi Mar for the outstanding debts and ordered 2 more Type 214 class submarines.

Submarine
Scheduled commissioning date
Papanikolis
October 2010
Pipinos
March 2012
Matrozos
January 2013
Katsonis
November 2013
5th Submarine
June 2018
6th Submarine
June 2018

The unit cost of the 5th and 6th Type 214 class submarines is 500 million euro each. This is almost the double what Greek government paid for the first, four Type 214’s. The average unit cost of these submarines was 375 million euro.

1.321 million euro is quite a lot of money in a time when the Greek government is trying hard to sell its austerity reforms in country. It seems that the rumors about the strings attached to German and French economic aids to Greece were true.

Year

Amount to be Paid
(million €)
2010

300
2011

200
2012

171
2013

150
2014

150
2015

150
2016

150
2017

50
2018

50
Total
1.321

http://turkishnavy.blogspot.com/2010/10 ... -15th.html

Depois de o "irmão" entrar ao serviço em Portugal com um desempenho excelente, segundo o que transpirou cá para fora, fica dificil os gregos dizerem que ele tem defeitos de projecto.

Eu li, acho que foi no FD, que poucos dias após a cerimónia oficial de 8 de Setembro , o Tridente ia sair para o mar. Sabes de algo?

Nop, mas nada mais natural. Há algum Porta aviões nuclear americano a passar ao largo da costa?

Penso que devam testar a furtividade do navio na nossa ZEE. Tem aqueles ligeiros parâmetros de salinidade, profundidade e temperatura característicos de cada zona que um submarinista saberá explicar e que convém serem testadas.

Treinos conjuntos com os P3 Orion e que podem incluir também a formação/teste dos P3 brasileiros que estão a ser modernizados na Espanha. Eles tem andado por cá, pode ser uma hipótese também.

Um comentário interessante acerca da aceitação do Papanikolis, que me responderam no keypublishings...

"Naaah. Financial wheeling-dealing. Now the Greek have Chinese money to pay the Germans for the subs. And paying the Chinese with sub-secrets.
Not sure I'm funny here ..."