PAK FA - VOOU!!!

[Alitson]

Tô zoando!!! Perco o amigo, mas nunca a piada!!!

[Carlos Mathias]

Graças a Deus!
Perder um bom forista, mais um, para o lado negro da força inguinoranti, não!

[P44]

Russia's fifth-generation fighter to be cheaper than foreign analogues
Topic: Farnborough-2010 Air Show



Russia's fifth-generation fighters for export will be cheaper than their foreign analogues, the general director of the aviation companies Sukhoi and MiG said on Tuesday.

"The price of the fifth-generation export variant is an issue for discussion and negotiation. But I can say that we believe its main advantage will be a competitive price margin," Mikhail Pogosyan said, adding that the aircraft would be significantly more expensive than Russia's fourth-generation fighter model.

He said that the new-generation fighter will be presented at the 2011 MAKS air show outside Moscow.

"Next year you will be able to see how the fifth-generation fighter takes off," Pogosyan said.

Russia's only known fifth-generation project is Sukhoi's PAK FA and the current prototype is the T-50. It is designed to compete with the U.S. F-22 Raptor, so far the world's only fifth-generation fighter, and the F-35 Lightning II.

In mid-June, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin observed the 16th test flight of a prototype model of the new fighter.

Russia has been developing the model since the 1990s. The country's top military officials have said the stealth fighter jet, with a range of up to 5,500 km, should enter service with the Air Force in 2015.

The PAK FA is to be armed with next-generation air-to-air, air-to-surface, and air-to-ship missiles, and has two 30-mm cannons.

FARNBOROUGH, July 20 (RIA Novosti)

http://www.en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/2010 ... 82742.html

Russian Air Force to get 10 fifth-generation fighters by 2015 (update 1)
Topic: Russian 5th-generation fighter



The Russian Defense Ministry will buy the first 10 fifth-generation fighters between 2013 and 2015 and then another 60 after 2016, a senior military official said on Monday.

Deputy Defense Minister for Arms Procurements Vladimir Popovkin said the first fighters will be purchased in 2013, while in 2015 the Air Force will start test flying them.

He did not explain what will happen between 2013 and 2015.

"We will start purchasing this fighter in series in 2016 and a total of 60 fighters will be bought under the state [arms procurement] program," Popovkin said.

Air Force chief Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin said last week the first batch of new fighters would be provided with older, "non-fifth" generation engines.

In mid-June, Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin observed the 16th test flight of a prototype fighter.

The prime minister said 30 billion rubles (around $1 billion) had already been spent on the project and another 30 billion would be required to complete it, after which the engine, weaponry and other components would be upgraded.

He said the fighter would have a service life of 30-35 years if modernization and upgrades are factored in, and would be around three times cheaper than its foreign analogs.

Russia's only known fifth-generation project is Sukhoi's PAK FA and the current prototype is the T-50. It is designed to compete with the U.S. F-22 Raptor, so far the world's only fifth-generation fighter, and the F-35 Lightning II.

Russia has been developing its newest fighter since the 1990s. The country's top military officials have said the stealth fighter jet with a range of up to 5,500 km should enter service with the Air Force in 2015.

The PAK FA is to be armed with next-generation air-to-air, air-to-surface, and air-to-ship missiles, and has two 30-mm cannons.

FARNBOROUGH, July 19 (RIA Novosti)

http://www.en.rian.ru/russia/20100719/159867784.html

[Largomoco]

Russia's only known fifth-generation project is Sukhoi's PAK FA and the current prototype is the T-50. It is designed to compete with the U.S. F-22 Raptor, so far the world's only fifth-generation fighter, and the F-35 Lightning II.

when the russian will stop to make 70's SU27 ersatz ?

FSB is good comunication center for the raptorski, problems are that it doesn't fit even 4th generation items!

[marcelo l.]

Não é o PAK, mas...

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 00729.aspx

The Mighty Su-35 Has No Friends

July 29, 2010: Russia is hustling to find export customers for its latest Su-30 model, the Su-35. The Russian Air Force will receive the first of these later this year, and export customers have been promised early delivery. There are few takers so far. There's just too much competition out there, from late model F-15s and F-16s, plus Rafale, Eurofighter and Gipen. The U.S. F-35 is on the way as well.
That said, the Su-35 is an impressive piece of work. It’s pitched as more reliable and durable than past Russian fighters, good for 6,000 flight hours (compared to 2,500-4,000 hours for earlier models). The big selling points are the sensors. There is a phased array radar that can spot large targets (like B-52s or AWACS) at up to 400 kilometers, and an infrared (heat sensing) passive radar with a range of 80 kilometers. The active radar can also track targets on the ground and use smart bombs. The Su-35 is more maneuverable than earlier Su-30 types

At one point, the Su-35 was touted as competition for the F-22. It isn't, that competition would be the PAK-FA, which had its first flight earlier this year. There are only three prototypes of the Su-35, and one of those crashed last year. The cause was a problem with one of the two engines. Russia had hoped to have the destroyed prototype fly over the May Day parade in Moscow on May 1st. The crash was really bad PR, since one of the consistent shortcomings of Russian warplanes has been the unreliable engines.

Two years ago, the Su-35 had its first flight. Progress has been slow. The Su-35 has been in development since the 1990s. At one point, it was called the Su-37, but the name was changed back to Su-35. Since the 1990s, two different Su-35 prototypes were built. There were many disagreements over what direction the development should take, and by the late 1990s, the project was basically suspended for lack of funding.

The Su-35 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the original, 33 ton, Su-27, and has much better electronics. It can cruise at above the speed of sound. It also costs at least fifty percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a barebones model), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the F-15, which is larger than the single engine F-16. The larger size of the Su-27/35, allows designers to do a lot more with it in terms of modifications and enhancements. The Su-35 will carry a 30mm autocannon (with 150 rounds) and up to eight tons of munitions, hanging from 12 hard points.

Russia's effort to develop an F-22 class fighter (the PAK FA) is going to require a lot of work. The prototype, that took its first flight recently, was clearly the basic Su-27 airframe modified to be stealthier. This included changing the shape of the aircraft to be less radar reflective, and providing internal bays for bombs and missiles. But there's much more to do in order to achieve anything close to the stealthiness of the F-22. It took fifteen years for the F-22 to go from initial flight, to entering service. The PAK FA could proceed faster, learning from the F-22 experience (especially if some of the Internet based espionage carried out in the last decade was Russian). But such development speed has not been a Russian characteristic.

Another problem is the engines, which were not ready for the first flight. Older model engines were used, because initial flights are mainly to confirm the basic airworthiness of the airframe. The new engines, also being used in the Su-35, are suffering development problems. The Russians have always had difficulties with their high end military engines, and that tradition continues. Currently, the Russians say it will take several years to perfect the new engine.

Russia will also need a new family of air-to-air missiles, as the current ones are too large for the internal bays on the PAK FA prototype. These are already in the works, along with more compact versions of air-to-surface missiles. There are also problems with the electronics and, well, you get the picture.

[cabeça de martelo]

Não é o PAK, mas...

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairf ... 00729.aspx

The Mighty Su-35 Has No Friends

July 29, 2010: Russia is hustling to find export customers for its latest Su-30 model, the Su-35. The Russian Air Force will receive the first of these later this year, and export customers have been promised early delivery. There are few takers so far. There's just too much competition out there, from late model F-15s and F-16s, plus Rafale, Eurofighter and Gipen. The U.S. F-35 is on the way as well.
That said, the Su-35 is an impressive piece of work. It’s pitched as more reliable and durable than past Russian fighters, good for 6,000 flight hours (compared to 2,500-4,000 hours for earlier models). The big selling points are the sensors. There is a phased array radar that can spot large targets (like B-52s or AWACS) at up to 400 kilometers, and an infrared (heat sensing) passive radar with a range of 80 kilometers. The active radar can also track targets on the ground and use smart bombs. The Su-35 is more maneuverable than earlier Su-30 types

At one point, the Su-35 was touted as competition for the F-22. It isn't, that competition would be the PAK-FA, which had its first flight earlier this year. There are only three prototypes of the Su-35, and one of those crashed last year. The cause was a problem with one of the two engines. Russia had hoped to have the destroyed prototype fly over the May Day parade in Moscow on May 1st. The crash was really bad PR, since one of the consistent shortcomings of Russian warplanes has been the unreliable engines.

Two years ago, the Su-35 had its first flight. Progress has been slow. The Su-35 has been in development since the 1990s. At one point, it was called the Su-37, but the name was changed back to Su-35. Since the 1990s, two different Su-35 prototypes were built. There were many disagreements over what direction the development should take, and by the late 1990s, the project was basically suspended for lack of funding.

The Su-35 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the original, 33 ton, Su-27, and has much better electronics. It can cruise at above the speed of sound. It also costs at least fifty percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a barebones model), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the F-15, which is larger than the single engine F-16. The larger size of the Su-27/35, allows designers to do a lot more with it in terms of modifications and enhancements. The Su-35 will carry a 30mm autocannon (with 150 rounds) and up to eight tons of munitions, hanging from 12 hard points.

Russia's effort to develop an F-22 class fighter (the PAK FA) is going to require a lot of work. The prototype, that took its first flight recently, was clearly the basic Su-27 airframe modified to be stealthier. This included changing the shape of the aircraft to be less radar reflective, and providing internal bays for bombs and missiles. But there's much more to do in order to achieve anything close to the stealthiness of the F-22. It took fifteen years for the F-22 to go from initial flight, to entering service. The PAK FA could proceed faster, learning from the F-22 experience (especially if some of the Internet based espionage carried out in the last decade was Russian). But such development speed has not been a Russian characteristic.

Another problem is the engines, which were not ready for the first flight. Older model engines were used, because initial flights are mainly to confirm the basic airworthiness of the airframe. The new engines, also being used in the Su-35, are suffering development problems. The Russians have always had difficulties with their high end military engines, and that tradition continues. Currently, the Russians say it will take several years to perfect the new engine.

Russia will also need a new family of air-to-air missiles, as the current ones are too large for the internal bays on the PAK FA prototype. These are already in the works, along with more compact versions of air-to-surface missiles. There are also problems with the electronics and, well, you get the picture.

Eu não sabiaque o PT escrevia na Strategy Page...

[Jacobs]

Toma esse balde de água fria!

[Brasileiro]

Russia's effort to develop an F-22 class fighter (the PAK FA) is going to require a lot of work. The prototype, that took its first flight recently, was clearly the basic Su-27 airframe modified to be stealthier.

Isso aí não tem nada a ver. O que todo mundo viu foi apenas um protótipo inicial, não uma versão operacional.

Tudo nele é diferente, desde os materiais, parafusamento, etc. Do resto nada é o mesmo, a não ser o motor (já que o definitivo não está pronto) e as rodas.

Mas o importante é que nada ali é definitivo. Há ainda uma meia década até o caça se operacionalizar, e nesse tempo tudo pode acontecer.


abraços]

[Jacobs]

Russia's effort to develop an F-22 class fighter (the PAK FA) is going to require a lot of work. The prototype, that took its first flight recently, was clearly the basic Su-27 airframe modified to be stealthier.

Isso aí não tem nada a ver. O que todo mundo viu foi apenas um protótipo inicial, não uma versão operacional.

Tudo nele é diferente, desde os materiais, parafusamento, etc. Do resto nada é o mesmo, a não ser o motor (já que o definitivo não está pronto) e as rodas.

Mas o importante é que nada ali é definitivo. Há ainda uma meia década até o caça se operacionalizar, e nesse tempo tudo pode acontecer.


abraços]

Verdade, o Pak-fa operacional deve ser bem diferente do protótipo. Assim como o Raptor é bem diferente do YF-22.

Porém o artigo acerta em afirmar que isso vai demandar um tempo. Se o Su-35 que é um Su-27 modernizado já demorou bastante pra voar, imagino que o Pak-fa ainda vai demorar uns bons anos até chegar no modelo operacional.

[Pablo Maica]

A principio a versão operacional do PAK deve ficar pronta em 2015, sendo bem diferente dos atuais prototipos, visto que estes são mais bancadas de testes do que aeronaves de combate em si.

Porem a versão final mesmo acho que so em 2018 quando é prevista a instalação dos novos motores com caracteristicas furtivas.


Um abraço e t+

[Carlos Mathias]

Impressionante como se corre agarrar a primeira besteira que aparece quando a vontade é ser do contra.
Eu, que sou um leigo burro, posso contestar muita coisa nesse texto.

July 29, 2010: Russia is hustling to find export customers for its latest Su-30 model, the Su-35.

Junto com Suécia, França e USA e seu F-18E, com apenas uma única exportação para um satélite regional.
Se isso é sinal de qualidade (nº de vendas), então MIG-21 e F-16 são os parâmetros a serem seguidos.

There is a phased array radar that can spot large targets (like B-52s or AWACS) at up to 400 kilometers, and an infrared (heat sensing) passive radar with a range of 80 kilometers. The active radar can also track targets on the ground and use smart bombs. The Su-35 is more maneuverable than earlier Su-30 types

Ou é má vontade, ou é burrice.
O alvo detectado a 400Km é de 3m2. Só se um caça como o MIG-21 (usado nos testes) for o novo AWACS dos EUA.

E pode usar bombas inteligentes? MAs isso já se faz nos caças russas a mais de vinte anos!

At one point, the Su-35 was touted as competition for the F-22. It isn't, that competition would be the PAK-FA, which had its first flight earlier this year. There are only three prototypes of the Su-35, and one of those crashed last year. The cause was a problem with one of the two engines. Russia had hoped to have the destroyed prototype fly over the May Day parade in Moscow on May 1st. The crash was really bad PR, since one of the consistent shortcomings of Russian warplanes has been the unreliable engines.

-Nunca foi feito pensando em ser semelhante ao F-22, quem afirma isso é desinformado, no mínimo.
-Existem 3 protótipos agora, de pois que 1 acidentou-se.
-O protótipo que existe hoje voando pode ir a qualquer desfile no mundo, isso é a mais pura besteira de quem escreveu.
-Motores sem confiabilidade? puta merda, a fonte de esgoto é infinita mesmo . Se ele estivesse falando de durabilidade dos motores antigos, até ia, mas confiabilidade? Então ele não soube dos motores do Gripen na Red Flag, né? O que também não quer dizer porra nenhuma.

Alguém puxe a descarga, please!

Two years ago, the Su-35 had its first flight. Progress has been slow. The Su-35 has been in development since the 1990s. At one point, it was called the Su-37, but the name was changed back to Su-35. Since the 1990s, two different Su-35 prototypes were built. There were many disagreements over what direction the development should take, and by the late 1990s, the project was basically suspended for lack of funding.

-Porra, se vôou a dois anos, como é que está em desenvolvimento desde 1990. Isso é típico de quem é iginorante no assunto, confunde o SU-35 com o atual SU-35BM.
-Dois protótipos? Puta merda, alguém recomenda a Wikipedia prá ele, deve ser mai que suficiente.

The Su-35 is a 34 ton fighter that is more maneuverable than the original, 33 ton, Su-27, and has much better electronics. It can cruise at above the speed of sound. It also costs at least fifty percent more than the Su-27. That would be some $60 million (for a barebones model), about what a top-of-the-line F-16 costs. The Su-27 was originally developed to match the F-15, which is larger than the single engine F-16. The larger size of the Su-27/35, allows designers to do a lot more with it in terms of modifications and enhancements. The Su-35 will carry a 30mm autocannon (with 150 rounds) and up to eight tons of munitions, hanging from 12 hard points.

Aleluia!

Russia's effort to develop an F-22 class fighter (the PAK FA) is going to require a lot of work. The prototype, that took its first flight recently, was clearly the basic Su-27 airframe modified to be stealthier. This included changing the shape of the aircraft to be less radar reflective, and providing internal bays for bombs and missiles. But there's much more to do in order to achieve anything close to the stealthiness of the F-22. It took fifteen years for the F-22 to go from initial flight, to entering service. The PAK FA could proceed faster, learning from the F-22 experience (especially if some of the Internet based espionage carried out in the last decade was Russian). But such development speed has not been a Russian characteristic.

O PAK está sendo desenvolvido desde 1990. Se as pessoas não viram ou ouviram falar, é um mérito dos russos esconderem tão bem seus programas militares. Se esconderam a construção de um novo submarino nuclear...
Lembremo-nos que até o dia do vôo do primeiro protótipo do PAK-FA, muita gente boa (e principalmente ruim) mundo afora apostava que só se veria o primeiro vôo em no mínimo dez anos mais, se voasse.
Inclusive, muitos espertos e fontados daqui disseram o mesmo, que era mentira, assim como disseram o mesmo do SU-35BM, que contrariando a inteligência destes "analistas"vai ser entregue pronto e operacional ainda este ano para a FAEr russa.

Outra descarga e joga um balde d'água prá ajudar.

Another problem is the engines, which were not ready for the first flight. Older model engines were used, because initial flights are mainly to confirm the basic airworthiness of the airframe. The new engines, also being used in the Su-35, are suffering development problems. The Russians have always had difficulties with their high end military engines, and that tradition continues. Currently, the Russians say it will take several years to perfect the new engine.

Ai meu Deus...
Os motores atuais, que esse "especialista" diz serem velhos e blá, blá, blá, já levou o avião, do jeito que são hoje, a completar supercruise e chegar próximo de mach 2.
Os motores novos não estão "sofrendo de problemas de desenvolvimento", estão sendo desenvolvidos, como qualquer outro novo motor.
Quem aposta uma bananada que estarão prontos logo, contrariando mais um vez os "especialistas de plantão"?
Não existe mais conflito entre os fabricantes russos de motores, agora é tudo uma empresa só.

Russia will also need a new family of air-to-air missiles, as the current ones are too large for the internal bays on the PAK FA prototype. These are already in the works, along with more compact versions of air-to-surface missiles. There are also problems with the electronics and, well, you get the picture.

Já existem, pode-se ver na MAKS, inclusive versões ar-terra de alguns deles, sendo oferecidos para exportação.
Que arma ar-terra o F-22 carrega mesmo?
Quantas?
Na pior das hipóteses, o R-77 e suas aletas dobráveis cabem nas baias do PAK-FA como é hoje.

Olha, somente sendo mesmo leigo, ou um torcedor fanático para escrever esse festival de... De... Enfim, me admira ver que há quem se agarre a esta corda cegamente, a primeira e podre que surge.

Abraços!

[Alitson]

Só uma pergunta, a AL-41 está sendo usada no Su-34, correto? Porém não gera a potência necessaria para o T-50, é isso?


[]s

[prp]

Su35?

[Brasileiro]

Sim, é o painel do Su-35. É também o painel atual do PAK-FA.




abraços]

[Carlos Mathias]

Alitson, em ambos são versões, desenvolvimentos das AL-31, como acontece em qualquer lugar.
É muito raro (e caro) desenvolver-se um motor do zero especificamente para um avião.

A AL-41, que era usada no MIG-1.44 eram cavalas demais, coice de mula. Acho que batiam umas 20 ton de empuxo cada, sei lá.
Foram para o congelador junto com o MIG-1.44 e agora estão recomeçando, obviamente que com as novas tecnologias desenvolvidas para outros motores modernos.

A 117-S, que é usada no SU-35BM, já chegou em testes a mais de 15,5 ton de empuxo, e tem espaço para mais potência ainda.

Depois, se quiser, podemos pesquisar isso melhor, mas é o que me lembro de cabeça.