Página 2 de 7

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 6:55 pm
por Luiz Padilha
MCD-SM escreveu:A única opção interessante para a MB é fragata nova. Precisamos pelo menos 4 sendo duas AAW e duas ASW. Depois se 2010 poderíamos complemetar com 4 Breemem substituindo as Inhaúma. A partir 2015 mais uma 4-6 novas para substituir as Niteróis.
Na minha opnião, MEKO A200, as AAW se tiver dinheiro SMART/APAR-L e ASTER 30, se não tiver para isso, fico contente com ESSM mais um bom sistema deradar, tipo o das FREEM.


O mais interessante é que todos na MB acham muito inteligente o sistema de modularidade que as MEKO possuem.
Agora é aguardar e ver se nossa MB se aproxima dos Alemães.
[]'s
Padilha

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 7:02 pm
por Luiz Padilha
gral escreveu:
talharim escreveu:Mas parece que a MB não tá nem um pouco interessada nas Spruance.


A história que eu ouvi foi que seria caro demais operar as Spruance. Principalmente porque turbinas a gás consomem combustível pra cacete.


1 dia de mar das Spruances = 75% de óleo de um dia do São Paulo

Essa foi a razão. Elas bebem horrores e a MB tem problema com óleo(Quantidade). 4 beberronas dessas aqui , elas não iam sair da Base.:(

As OHP por terem 2 turbinas, seriam um bom tapa buracos, mas, como os americanos tiraram o principal armamento delas.....

Deixaram de ser atraentes. Um Almte uma vez me disse:
"Melhor manter os nossos navios operativos, do que comprar navio velho e DESARMADO".

É isso.

[]'s

Padilha

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 7:06 pm
por FinkenHeinle
Luiz Padilha escreveu:Um Almte uma vez me disse:
"Melhor manter os nossos navios operativos, do que comprar navio velho e DESARMADO".

O Alte. disse tudo...


Uma pena que nem o primeiro eles conseguem...

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 7:07 pm
por Luís Henrique
Se não fosse o preconceito com 350 mi poderiamos ter uma talwar.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 7:10 pm
por FinkenHeinle
Luís Henrique escreveu:Se não fosse o preconceito com 350 mi poderiamos ter uma talwar.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Se não fosse o dogmatismo, o A-12 já tinha virado ferro velho...

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 7:40 pm
por talharim
Notícias sobre as Knox Taiwanesas :

Sonar aboard Knox-Class frigates helps Navy keep a close watch
While China's Navy with its large number of surface ships and submarines can be an intimidating force, the Taiwan Navy sees its own Knox-Class frigates of the 168 Fleet as an ace in the hole.

The Knox-Class frigates were specially designed to U.S. Navy requirements to counter the threat of the huge Russian submarine fleet during the Cold War, but after the 46 ships were decommissioned, the Taiwanese Navy acquired eight of them between 1992 and 1998.

The Knox-class frigate was designed with anti-submarine warfare in mind, the key technology being its sonar equipment. The ship carries an SQS-26 sonar at the front and an SQS-35 (V) variable depth sonar at the rear, as well as an SQR-18A (V) towed sonar.

"The sonar equipment on our ships is what any submarine fears the most," said Captain Maio Yen-hsin of the Feng Yang 934, one of the eight Knox-class frigates leased from the U.S.

The sonar equipment on the ships has the ability to issue an underwater ping that could seem deafening to a submarine crew. According to the crews serving on another class of submarine in the Taiwan navy, the underwater ping from the Knox-class vessel sounds like a big bell over one's head being hit by a huge hammer.

"If we encounter any unknown submarines in our waters, we can chase them away, at all costs," said Captain Maio.

According to former crew members of the 168 Fleet, when the Knox-class ships were first acquired by the Taiwan Navy, they were based at Kaohsiung's Tsoying military harbor on Taiwan's west coast where the sonar equipment was tested, but after the first test it became evident that the area was unsuitable as the pings were detected as far away as Okinawa on Japan's coastline. The frigates were moved to the deeper waters on the east coast and were later stationed at the Su Ao military harbor.

It is believed that Chinese submarines have been on the receiving end of the sonar equipment, as their Song-class and Ming-class vessels reportedly often try to sneak up on Taiwan's eastern coast.

A military officer disclosed that during a drill a few years ago in which two other types of Taiwan Navy submarines, the SS-793 Hai Lung and SS-794 Hai Hu played the role of an imaginary enemy, the Knox-class frigate detected a number of other vessels in Taiwan's waters. They were identified as Chinese, American, Japanese and Russian submarines. The Knox-Class frigates tracked them for a while, then "pinged" them, after which they fled. It was never quite clear why the foreign vessels were in that particular location at the time.

In another incident the Feng Yang 934 had a three-day encounter with a submarine of unknown nationality in 2000, just before the presidential elections. The unidentified vessel was located in waters off Hualien and Ilan. The crew of the Feng Yang 934 requested that the submarine identify itself but the request was ignored.

Following standard procedure, the Feng Yang 934 closely tracked the vessel. The crew of the submarine, in a surprising reaction, did not maintain the expected silence but rather could be heard giving loud orders in Chinese. It was deduced that it was a People's Liberation Army vessel, possibly of the Ming class.

On that occasion, the Feng Yang did not ping the submarine, choosing instead to protect the frequency of its sonar.

The Taiwan Navy headquarters, noting that the encounter was a rare one, sent other frigates such as the Cheng Kung 1101 and other Gearing-Class destroyers to monitor the situation that lasted three days.

The Knox-Class frigate is 134 meters long and 14.33 meters wide with a displacement of 4260 tons.


Sobre as Knox Egípcias (notícia 2001) :

Knox Class Frigates: In 1997-1998, Egypt’s two Knox class frigates, Damyat and Rasheed, conducted Extended Ship Restricted Availabilities (ESRAs) at Alexandria that included boiler repairs. The Knox transfer program involved extensive shipyard upgrades to make Alexandria self-sufficient in Knox class maintenance. The Knox class is powered by two 1200-psi boilers that require regular maintenance to ensure a safe-to-steam capability. As of mid-2001, the Egyptian Navy (EN) is planning for additional upgrades to include:

· Procurement of a system to allow for local creation and editing of the Raytheon AN/SLQ-32 V (2) electronic support measures (ESM) threat library.

· Upgrade of the current Boeing Harpoon SSMs to the UGM-84 Block II standard.

· Raytheon Systems Mk 15 20mm close-in-weapons system (CIWS) overhaul/refurbishment (will be complete by December 2001).

Funding for the upgrades will be through a US Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program


Tirado do site Wikipedia sobre as capacidades de combate desse navio :

These ships were designed primarily as antisubmarine (ASW) platforms. They each had AN/SQS-26 hull-mounted sonar manufactured by General Electric and capable of active echo ranging in the 3.2Khz range. The active modes of operation included omni-directional, phased directional, bottom bounce, and convergence zone. The battle displays included A and B scans. There was also a "Unit 31" chart readout display capable of long-distance passive detection, often well beyond the ranges capable of the surface search radar. The frigates were also equiped with an AN/AQS-35V Independent Variable Depth Sonar (IVDS) manufactured by EDO Corportaion of College Point, NY, operating actively in the 13Khz range with dual Planned Position Indicator (PPI) battle displays. The IVDS' sonar transducers were packaged within a 2 ton fiberglass-enclosed "fish" containing the sonar array and a gyro-compass/sensor package launched by the massive 13V Hoist from a stern compartment, located just beneath the main deck, to depths of up to 600 feet. The IVDS could take advantage of water layer temperature conditions in close-range (less than 20,000 yard) submarine detection, tracking and fire-control.

At 4200 tonnes, with a length of 438 feet and a beam of 47 feet, they are driven by a single screw geared turbine developing 35,000 shaft horsepower (26 MW), giving them a speed of 27 knots. The steam plant for these ships consists of two boilers, each equipped with a high-pressure (supercharger) forced draught air supply system, allowing a plant working pressure of 1,200 PSI and superheat. This design allows fast acceleration, crucial while prosecuting a submarine attack. They are equipped with one 5 in (127 mm) 54 calibre Mark 42 gun forward, an ASROC abaft the gun and forward of the bridge, and a 20 millimetre Phalanx close-in weapons system. Since they are single purpose platforms their surface defense capability is nominal; however they do mount Harpoon missiles and Mk-46 torpedoes. They are equipped with a helicopter hangar aft.

These ships were retired with the end of the Cold War and the removal of the need for an advanced ASW capability. By 1994 all ships of this class had been retired from the US Navy, although some remain in service with foreign nations such as Egypt, Taiwan, Thailand and Mexico.

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 7:48 pm
por talharim
Sobre as Knox Turcas :

Comments:
MUAVENET was given as a grant. She replaced a Robert H. Smith Class destroyer (DM-357 MUAVENET, ex- USS Gwin DD-772) with the same name. The destroyer was hit by a Sea Sparrow missile fired from US aircraft carrier Saratoga during NATO Exercise Display Determination 92. 5 sailors including the commander were killed in this incident.
The rest were leased. W.S. SIMS (FF 1059) and PAUL (FF 1080) have been given for cannibalization.
With their strong sonar and signal analyzing systems, these ships enhanced the ASW capabilities of the Turkish Navy. The hulls of these ships are old, the steam-based machinery is expensive to operate, difficult to maintain and the C3I systems are almost obsolete. Therefore 4 ships have been decommissioned after 10 years of service in Turkish Navy.
F-251 ADATEPE was decommissioned in 2001; F-252 KOCATEPE and F-278 AKDENİZ in 2002, F-245 TRAKYA in 2003. F-256 TCG EGE was decommssioned in 21 March 2005.
The combat management systems of the remaining have been modernized with Sigma K-5 command control and Link 11 systems.
Former names:
MUAVENET: Capodanno FFG-1093
ADATEPE: Fanning FFG-1076
KOCATEPE: Reasoner FFG-1062
ZAFER: Thomas C Hart FFG- 1092
TRAKYA: McCandless FFG- 1084
KARADENİZ: D. B. Beary FFG-1085
EGE: Ainsworth FFG- 1090
AKDENİZ: Bowen FFG-1079


Todos os operadores de Knox elogiam muito a capacidade anti-submarino do navio mas ao mesmo tempo criticam a custosa e complexa manutenção de seu sistema propulsor.

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 8:06 pm
por gral
talharim escreveu:Todos os operadores de Knox elogiam muito a capacidade anti-submarino do navio mas ao mesmo tempo criticam a custosa e complexa manutenção de seu sistema propulsor.


Exatamente o mesmo problema das FF Garcia(CT classe Pará). Quando elas vieram, tinham o melhor sonar da MB. O problema é que as caldeiras a vapor americanas dessa época são notórias por darem problema e serem de manutenção complicada(aparentemente eram chamadas de "Ensign Killers" na USN).

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 8:07 pm
por talharim
Sobre a saga da aquisição das Knox gregas :

CF Adams/Knox-class destroyers
The transfer of the CF Adams-class destroyers to the Greek navy almost 10 years ago was a textbook example of Greek American community involvement in Greek arms purchases – and of its limits.

During the late 80s, the Turkish government pushed to acquire Brooke- and Garcia-class ships that had been withdrawn from the US navy. The Greek naval staff tried to acquire a proportionate number as well, in order to maintain the 7:10 balance (of US arms assistance to Greece and Turkey, respectively), as well as an equilibrium of forces. In this case, with the Soviet threat diminishing fast, influential members of the Greek American community suggested to the Greek navy that it not press too vigorously, as other classes of more capable ships were to become available soon.

The advice was followed and – despite some unfortunate resignations of key Greek naval officials who were linked (not necessarily for good reason) to the failure to secure Brooke- and Garcia-class ships – the Greek navy found itself in position to acquire vessels of the DDG2 CF Adams class. Although old and crew-intensive, these vessels offered the Greek navy the ability for the first time for area anti-air warfare (AAW) due to the existence of the Standard-Missile-1 Medium Range (RIM-66/SM-1MR) missile system. With all their limitations, these ships enhanced Greek capabilities in an unprecedented way. Thus, the cooperation of the Greek American community, officials of the Greek navy, and the Greek government allowed Greece to reject a dubious offer for a far better opportunity.


Unfortunately, from this point on things went less well, pointing to the Greek American community’s limited abilities to act positively. On the one hand, the Turkish government was somehow notified or simply became suspicious of the Greek navy’s rather low profile regarding the proposed Brooke- and Garcia-class vessels. Turkey consequently canceled the deal, and instead acquired vessels of the newer and more capable Knox class. On the other hand, the Greek navy purchased ships with unprecedented abilities, but not in the best possible condition. Indeed, it became clear quickly that not only was it out of the question to keep all of them operational, but that maintaining just some of them was going to be a challenge. Moreover, their weapons suite was typically poor for American warships, especially at the close-in layer, where there was practically no missile-defense system.

The worst aspect of the arrangement, however, was that although the US navy had decommissioned the entire class, it somehow became impossible for Greece to acquire vessels with the New Threat Upgrade kit. This kit augmented the ship’s ability to contain and repel saturation air attacks, which is the most probable situation when operating relatively close to an enemy’s mainland and the enemy air force is mostly (or, as in the Turkish case, exclusively) composed of fighters. The older capabilities had been designed to counter the isolated or limited raids of the Soviet long-range naval bombers of the early 60s, which were slow, bulky, non-agile targets that attacked from medium to high altitudes in small groups or by units. This meant that although the Greek navy was elated by the capabilities of the new ships, they were, practically speaking, of limited utility for its war-fighting scenarios.

The insistence of the Greek navy to proceed with the acquisition of its three Knox-class frigates cannot be held against the Greek American community, of course. These awkward ships should have never entered Greek service. The Greek navy’s worst decision, however, was to turn its lease agreement into clear-cut ownership (after all the shortfalls were obvious), which permitted the upgrade of the weapons, armor, and equipment suite, but also meant a long-term commitment to ships that were clearly inadequate and cost-ineffective. A few years later, in fact, the Greek navy decided against steam propulsion, and the Knox-class vessels were decommissioned after less than 10 years of service in the Greek fleet.

The saga of the Kidd-class destroyers
In the second half of the 90s, the Greek navy understood the need for a class to replace the CF Adams-class ships in area air defense with ships that had enhanced capabilities and reduced operating costs. At that point, the US navy was to decommission its Kidd-class destroyers for budgetary reasons. The Greek American community promptly passed this information on to Greek officials, and the Greek naval staff seriously considered the opportunity, as there were a number of obvious advantages.


First and foremost, the weapons system of this class was much more capable than that of the CF Adams class. Practically, it was probably the most advanced system of non-phased-array radar on American warships. It could make use of the improved Standard Missile-2, which allowed much-enlarged salvoes to be launched at increased ranges, resulting in an outstanding ability to repel even saturation attacks. The large number of antiaircraft missiles aboard each vessel (around 100) meant substantial combat endurance.
Second, the weapons array was complete. In composition, it resembled the suites onboard European destroyers (generally more heavily armed than their US counterparts of the same displacement class), but in quantity it was rather cruiser-like. Most of this secondary weaponry was already in use in the Greek navy and thus the requisite experience and infrastructure were already in place.
Third, its power plant consisted of four LM-2500 gas turbines, doing away with steam turbines, a fact of great appeal to the Greek navy at a time when it wanted to discard steam propulsion altogether. The LM series of turbines was already in service in Greek ships, although in smaller vessels (i.e., Hydra-class frigates).
Fourth, its design for the imperial Iranian navy meant an excellent air-conditioning system, a must for Greek waters during summer, and the ship was judged efficient and sail-worthy in general.
Fifth, the ships were readily available. This meant that the Greek navy could have a much improved capability within two to three years, instead of the seven years that a new shipbuilding program would entail. This in turn meant that the Greek navy could significantly increase its capabilities in the short term, permitting itself enough time during the next 10 years to organize a well-structured replacement program, while the emerging AAW technologies would also be mature enough and less risky to invest in. Moreover, with the funds released by such a stopgap measure in the AAW sector, the building of a series of multi-purpose anti-submarine warfare corvettes would stay on track, in order to keep the vital sea lines of the Aegean clean of Turkish submarines while increasing Greek naval presence on the sensitive eastern borders.
Finally, the fact that the ships were surplus meant reasonable costs in acquiring them, which was important for making the purchase worthwhile.
Of course, there were substantial disadvantages as well. The vessels were extremely maintenance-intensive, and required very large crews, which was problematic for the Greek navy since it always has a manpower shortage, especially for fleet duties. In addition, these ships possessed systems incompatible with those of the Greek navy, which meant an exceptional investment in infrastructure and logistics, in some cases for subsystems that were already dated and occasionally even out of US service or due to be retired soon. The sheer size of the ships (a staggering 10,000 tons of displacement, reminiscent of Second World War German “pocket-battleships” such as the Graf Spee) required extensive works at the Greek docks from which they were to operate. Finally, the ships were almost 25 years old, as was their weapon-system technology. It was not only designed in the 70s, but, even worse, the US had discarded this type of area AAW system for Aegis-equipped ships, bearing vertical launchers for their impressive missile batteries. Nevertheless, after careful analysis, the Greek naval staff decided in favor of the purchase, assuming a reasonable price.

At first, the US preferred to see the ships not going to Greece, but rather to a more “dependable” ally. As the Cold War was over, however, this “dependability issue” clearly had no justification. In truth, the US was concerned that the ships were to be used by one ally against another, more favored ally. The opposite, of course, was not true. US administrations continually supplied weaponry to Turkey, which openly admitted the potential use of such weaponry against Greece.

US budgetary problems were urgent, however, and the ships had to go. Australia firmly declined the bargain price of $30 million per ship, but the Greek navy indicated serious interest in two ships. The cost of operation for all four ships was prohibitive, while the greater combat potential and reliability of the class compared to the CF Adams theoretically permitted most Greek operational scenarios to be satisfied with half the ships. The US had to swallow the bitter pill of the ships going to Greece, but decided to make the most of it.

The US government presented the sale to certain individuals of the Greek American community as a major concession to Greece (which it was not, since there were no other potential customers and the US navy was eager to get rid of the ships, preferably with reimbursement of some kind). A similar line was adopted with the Greek government by the US embassy in Athens. However, when the details of the purchase were made public, it just did not seem right.

First, the US was not giving the vessels to Greece for free, although they were surplus ships. They were being sold. Second, they were being sold as “all four or nothing,” whereas the Greek navy clearly needed – and could only afford to acquire and operate – two of them. Third, the matter of price arose. Not only were the ships for sale, and not giveaways, but the price suddenly skyrocketed. The-$30-million-per-ship deal for Australia became $100 million for Greece! Moreover, when the Greek staff made its calculations – i.e., 4 x 100 million = 400 million – it did not account for American bookkeeping. Simply put, the US was charging $750 million for the four ships to cover the added infrastructure in Greece that had to be built to maintain them, with other costs (such as dockyard expansion and improvement) not included!

This package of three quarters of a billion dollars included spare parts and an array of ammunition for the ships’ weapon systems, most of which already existed in rather adequate quantities in the Greek arsenal and were thus redundant. What was not included in the bill was the primary missile of the ships, the standard surface-to-air missile. At a price of $400,000 apiece, with 100 carried by each vessel, a full missile load – making no provisions for test firings and reloads – was a respectable $160 million. And this was not all. In 1998, when the package was proposed (proposed meant “take it or leave it,” with no choice to reject some aspects of it), the US refused to permit the acquisition of the SM-2, in which the main merit of these vessels lies. Greeks had to contend themselves with the older SM-1 used on their CF Adams destroyers and in the Turkish OH Perry frigates. With the SM-2 not available, the ships’ value to the Greek navy decreased. (The SM-1 is the first-generation Standard Missile, which, as indicated above, is the primary missile of this class of vessels. The SM-2 is a newer model of the same missile, but much improved. It has longer range, improved sensor and warhead assembly, and can be “ripple-fired,” in order to repel saturation attacks.)

The enormous price tag for a mere 10-year difference in age, and some improvements in the weapon systems compared to the Adams class, was just not worth it. The US consented to rethink the Greek request for the SM-2 in two years’ time. This was not a significant compromise, however, as the US government could easily revert to its previous decision when it reexamined the Greek request. Even if this were not the case, the Greek navy would have had to spend another $160 million for just one shipload of the improved missiles (on top of an immediate $160 million for a shipload of the older missiles as a stopgap measure).

Moreover, as negotiations continued, the US navy did not suspend its decommissioning process, which meant that the ships were being mothballed despite Greece’s expressed desire to acquire them “hot.” Consequently, Greece would have had to expend additional monies, not included in the original bill – and going to American shipbuilders – to make the vessels seaworthy. Such behavior was rightly considered by many to be a kind of extortion, and turned many influential people in Greece against the deal.

The deal still had its supporters, however, including Greek Americans, who exerted tremendous pressure on Greece. Some of them simply had financial interests in the deal. The rest were dragged along by ignorance, believing that the sale was a good gesture to Greece on the part of the US, whereas Greece was just acting wildly “again,” irreparably compromising the Greek American community, its good services, and its reputation in the eyes of US officials.

Nothing could have been farther from the truth. The Greek prime minister himself had decided in favor of the deal in October 1998, at least in principle. Only the details were left to be worked out – which, however, were of tremendous importance. Moreover, the US demanded that the Greek government guarantee that these ships (paid for by the Greek taxpayer) not be used to enforce the common defense doctrine with Cyprus. Such a direct imposition of restrictions on what would be Greek property was generally considered to be a bit much.

The turning-point was US insistence that, as a tradeoff for the Kidds (which were to be bought at premium prices), the Greek government give its corvette contract to a US shipbuilder! This was an almost incredibly shameless demand – and an outrage to all the other governments whose shipbuilders were bidding for the Greek contract. The proposed US corvette, based on the Israeli Sa’ar 5, was expensive, but nothing exceptional. True, when first presented in the early 90s, it was a revolutionary design, much more advanced than anything available at the time, but, by 1998, the competition had more than caught up, and many of the other designs were superior, and backed with better financial and industrial offers.

Despite the furious support for the sale in Greece, especially in the press, by various special interests, it was clear that such an array of unbelievable restrictions, limitations, and demands had simply poisoned the deal. The US tried to extort Greece even further with the threat that if the agreement were not signed soon, the US government would restart negotiations with other interested parties. This was perceived as blackmail, however, by the Greek government and did nothing to advance the deal.

Two years later, late in 2000, the bluff was made ludicrously obvious when the US contacted the Greek defense minister offering to “re-examine the issues that had hindered the deal.” This move clearly showed how desperate the US was to get rid of the ships in question, and further exposed the hollowness of previous arguments by partisans of the sale in both Greece and the US. Although everyone with a direct interest in it tried anew to persuade the Greek government that the time was ripe, it was clearly too late. The Greek navy had taken considerable pains to specify a new AAW major surface combatant, to be built partially in Greece and wholly to Greek needs and specifications.

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 8:31 pm
por REGATEANO
Não adianta Talharim, você vai ser sempre voto vencido!!!

Chega de Navio Americano velho!

Se for pra ser americano, e velho, só serve um Tico.

Eu quero meu TICO!!! :P :P :P :P

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 8:35 pm
por FinkenHeinle
Francisco Daniel escreveu:Eu quero meu TICO!!! :P :P :P :P

Faça bom proveito do seu Tico, porque eu não quero, hehehe...


PS: Desculpem esse infame trocadilho, mas sabem como é, deixou a bola picando na pequena área, é gol...

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 9:01 pm
por Degan
Mas a MB não tem condições financeiras de adquirir 20 escoltas novas.


El problema no es solo comprarlas, sino que operarlas y mantenerlas actualizadas.
Siempre es mejor tener poco pero bueno que mucho pero mediocre...

Discordo totalmente de que esses navios seriam alvos flutuantes.São navios dedicados para guerra anti-submarino e da reserva de 1° nível da USNAVY.


Sus sistemas están obsoletos....para ser de primera línea habría que invertír mucho y lo peor es que son vaporeras.... :?

Poderíamos adquirir algumas unidades que já tenham lançadores Sea Sparrow e modernizá-los para lançarem mísseis Standard.


Es que uno mide 3 metros y pesa 250 kg y el otro mide 6 metros y pesa 600 kg....

Ou então trocarmos por 2 lançadores óctulpos Albatros.


Dirás ASPIDE 2000, para lo cual hay que cambiar toda la electrónica.

Enfim,existem uma série de possibilidades,é uma plataforma de 4.200 Toneladas....................teriam uma vida útil de uns 15 anos pela frente..............


Cambiando todas sus calderas (linda familia con el A-12).... :roll:

A história que eu ouvi foi que seria caro demais operar as Spruance. Principalmente porque turbinas a gás consomem combustível pra cacete.


Así y todo, deben ser más económicas de operar que las Knox a vapor.....

Vale mais a pena esperar algumas Type 42 Batch 3 da RN serem descomissionadas do que pegar uma fragata como a Knox ou a OHP.


Puede ser, pero las Type 42 son ya bastante viejas, el 2010 estarán muy usadas y el Sea Dart solo lo usarían ustedes.... :?

É preferivel construir mais 4 Barroso, sem misseis AAW do que comprar um lixo desses.


Pero la idea es tener una armada balanceada, no conseguir números.....

Quando as Type 42 e/ou Type 22/23 ficarem disponíveis o papai Lula compra.


Entiendo que las Type 22-3 estarán en servicio en la RN hasta el 2013....las Type 23 lo estarían hasta el 2017...

1 dia de mar das Spruances = 75% de óleo de um dia do São Paulo


Lo dudo mucho...tienes alguna fuente???. :?:

Se não fosse o dogmatismo, o A-12 já tinha virado ferro velho...


Finken....una verdad del porte de una catedral, si le sumas lo del SMN....pues.... :idea:

Saludos cordiales,

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 9:47 pm
por faterra
talharim escreveu:Mas a MB não tem condições financeiras de adquirir 20 escoltas novas.


De uma tacada, talvez não.
Mas se fosse adquirindo aos poucos, 1/2/3 por ano ou a cada 2 anos, ela teria sempre meios novos e atualizados na frota. O problema é que foram empurrando com a barriga e agora a necessidade ficou acumulada.
O lamentável desta situação é que a MB vai paralisar a construção de fragratas, submarinos e outros meios no País e vai acabar perdendo sua capacidade tecnológica, adquirida com tantos sacrifícios ao longo destes anos. E isto para adquirir meios usados. Uma aberração que passa somente pelas cabeças de nossas autoridades.

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 9:59 pm
por talharim
faterra escreveu :
O lamentável desta situação é que a MB vai paralisar a construção de fragratas, submarinos e outros meios no País e vai acabar perdendo sua capacidade tecnológica, adquirida com tantos sacrifícios ao longo destes anos. E isto para adquirir meios usados. Uma aberração que passa somente pelas cabeças de nossas autoridades.


Quem a sabe a MB não inicie a construção de + 1 Barroso ou + 1 Tikuna até o ano que vem ? Ou pelo menos o Navio de Patrulha Oceânico ?

O importante é não deixar parado o AMRJ,senão vai acabar acontecendo o que vc disse.

Enviado: Dom Mar 19, 2006 10:01 pm
por Bolovo
talharim escreveu:faterra escreveu :
O lamentável desta situação é que a MB vai paralisar a construção de fragratas, submarinos e outros meios no País e vai acabar perdendo sua capacidade tecnológica, adquirida com tantos sacrifícios ao longo destes anos. E isto para adquirir meios usados. Uma aberração que passa somente pelas cabeças de nossas autoridades.


Quem a sabe a MB não inicie a construção de + 1 Barroso ou + 1 Tikuna até o ano que vem ? Ou pelo menos o Navio de Patrulha Oceânico ?

O importante é não deixar parado o AMRJ,senão vai acabar acontecendo o que vc disse.

Prefiro que tudo, tudo, tudo seja revertido para a construção do SMB-10.

Ou para umas duas NaPaOc (é isso né?).