Marinha da República Popular da China (PLAN)

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WTF

[FCarvalho]

Não entendi. Qual é a ideia?

[P44]

Não entendi. Qual é a ideia?

Não percebo se é a sério se é fake, mas é o novo PA chinês ter lançadores de misseis nucleares...

[P44]

Click to Enlarge. The new submarine, part of the Yuan family of designs, features a distinctive stealthy sail. A chine runs along the upper part creating sloping surfaces which may be intended to reduce the radar cross-section when surfaced.

The New Mystery Submarine Seen In China: What We Know

At the height of the Cold War defense analysts often tried to piece together information about a new types of submarine seen outside shipyards. Today this is playing out again, only in China. A new submarine, with an unusual sail, has recently emerged.
H I Sutton 25 Jun 2021

The ability to keep your submarine designs secret may confer a tactical or strategic advantage in the future. Yet they are also massive projects which most countries cannot keep completely secret. The US Navy’s submarine building plans for example, are known years in advance. Not in China. On May 12 2021 we got our first view of a new submarine which was ready to be launched at a shipyard in Wuhan. This creates a lot of analysis, and some wild speculation.

Since May a brief segment of video and another candid photograph have come to light, enabling a deeper analysis. The submarine is currently on the Huangpu River in Shanghai, in the vicinity of 31°15’22.49″N, 121°32’38.71″E.

Before dealing with what we know, we should highlight something which we do not. We don’t know it’s name or designation.

Western observers have taken to referring to it as the Type-039C or –D. The last letter refers to it being either the third or forth (depending on who you ask) major variant of the existing Type-039A Yuan Class. These letters, including for the previous -B model, have been given by Western observers. Although they are widely used in defense circles, and I myself have been guilty of this, the Chinese Navy hasn’t shared their actual designations. So all of these might be wrong.

By far the most distinctive feature of the new submarine is the sail. This has an angled upper section with an angled chine running along it. The angles created resemble the fuselages of stealth fighter planes and may reduce its radar cross-section when it is on the surface. This would make it more stealthy when entering or leaving port. We can speculate that it may have hydrodynamic advantages, such as reducing the wake while at periscope depth.


The mystery submarine is currently in a river in Shanghai. Despite masses of people nearby photos are still extremely rare. Includes material © CNES 2021, Distribution Airbus DS all rights reserved / PLEIADES satellite imagery. Acquired through ShadowBreak Intl

The reshaped sail also creates significant volume near its top which may be used to house new systems. However, overall the sail is not larger than the previous Yuan class boats. So unless there is a significant reduction in the size of the masts, it seems unlikely that houses anything substantial.

Swedish Influence? The A-26 Class
Because of the angled sail there is a natural comparison with the Swedish A-26 Blekinge Class submarine. Superficially it look similar. And it is possible that the Swedish design, which has been public for many years, was an inspiration. But on closer examination there is only a general resemblance and they are actually quite different.

The Swedish submarine features much more blended lines with a curved leading edge of the sail merging seamlessly into the casing. The Chinese boat has a much straighter leading edge and less blended lower section. The hydroplanes are also positioned differently with the Swedish ones being along the line of the chine. The Chinese boat has them in the same position as previous Yuan class boats, which places them lower and further forward.

Unlike many countries building non-nuclear submarines, including the Swedes, Chinese designers have not adopted X-form rudders. Instead the traditional cruciform arrangement is retained. The upper rudder now has a towed array sonar (TAS) cable running through it. This may hint at a significant sensor upgrade for the class as previous Yuans had not been reported with towed arrays.

While comparisons with the Swedish A-26 are natural, it is worth noting that Chinese designers have come up with similar ideas in the past. Angled faces where added to the upper section of aType-035 Ming class submarine in around 2010. Only a small part was modified so it wouldn’t have had much effect when the boat was fully surfaced. But it may have been beneficial when only this section was above the waves.

It’s also too long ago to suggest that it was directly related to the new submarine, but it shows that the thinking was already there. So with this in mind observers should not rush to brand the new boat a copy of the A-26.

Overall the Swedish A-26 is a less compromised design, while the Chinese one is constrained by the pre-existing structure of the Yuan class. In essence it is a radical reshaping of the sail and, to an extent the casing, but still on the same frame.


The Swedish A-26 Blekinge Class also features an angled sail. The similarities are only superficial however and while it may have been an influence, it is hardly a copy. Photo Saab.

Potent Submarine

This does not take away from the potential potency of the new submarine. But it does cast it as an iterative improvement of the Yuan Class rather than an all-new submarine.

Overall the new boat is approximately the same length as the earlier Yuans. This suggests that it hasn’t had an extra compartment added to accommodate vertical launch tubes for missiles. Or some radically new power plant.

These submarines are also equipped with Air independent Power (AIP). This likely uses a closed-cycle Stirling engine, similar to that on the A-26 class, to power the submarine when submerged. This means that it doesn’t have to snorkel to run its diesel generators, to recharge the batteries. Being able to run submerged for much longer greatly increases stealth. The trade-off is that the AIP generates less power so the submarine has to move slowly.

Note that the AIP powers the electric motor directly. It is a common misunderstanding that it recharges the batteries in lieu of the diesel generator. For this reason the diesels are retained.

There is speculation that China may have fitted lithium-ion batteries. These offer a much greater power density and may even make AIP unnecessary. However experts cannot agree and it is a cae of wait and see,

Like previous Yuan Class boats it is likely to be armed with a range of weapons including wire guided torpedoes, anti-ship missiles and mines. And there is the possibly that it can carry land-attack cruise missiles, shot out through the torpedo tubes.

The new submarine may be experimental, or possibly for export, so there is lots more that we do not know. The element of mystique is partly what will keep observers watching it more closely than other types.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... t-we-know/

[FCarvalho]

Não entendi. Qual é a ideia?

Não percebo se é a sério se é fake, mas é o novo PA chinês ter lançadores de misseis nucleares...

Deve ser fake. A ideia em si é ridícula quando se tem uma frota de SSBN em operação e novos projetos dos mesmos em gestação.

[P44]

[P44]

PA 003 tomando forma

Foto da página Military Armed Forces no Facebook

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Click to Enlarge. The Chinese Navy's Type-003 aircraft carrier is approximately the same size as the US Navy's latest Ford Class.
China’s New Super Carrier: How It Compares To The US Navy’s Ford Class
A new aircraft carrier, currently under construction in Shanghai, is the most visible sign of China's rapidly expanding navy. It is larger than China's current two carriers and differs in key aspects. But the natural comparison is to the U.S. Navy's latest carriers, the Ford Class.
H I Sutton 02 Jul 2021

Aircraft carriers are a strategic priority for the world’s leading navies. Experienced players such as the Royal Navy, French Navy (Marine Nationale) and Indian Navy are all in the process of bringing in new carriers. And Japan, South Korea and likely other countries are all taking steps to join the club. But nowhere is the capability gathering steam as much as in China. The Chinese Navy (PLAN) has already commissioned two carriers based on the Russian Admiral Kutzenov class. But their third carrier, known as Type-003, promises to take the PLAN to the next level.

Meanwhile the U.S. Navy, for decades the world leader in this technology, is also modernizing with a new class of super carrier. The first Ford Class ship, USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-76) was commissioned in 2017. While it has suffered some teething problems it remains the largest and most modern carrier afloat.

The Type-003 is very close in size to the U.S. Navy’s carriers. And although the definition is vague, it seems fair to also describe it as a “super carrier”.

Fresh commercial satellite imagery from Kompsat, via Shadowbreak Inti., allows us to finally measure the size and layout of the Type-003. This permits a general high-level comparison to the Ford Class.

The imagery shows that it is approximately 320 meters (1,050 feet) long. This is about 13 meters (43 feet) shorter than the Ford Class. And it seems less than it sounds if you placed the two ships side by side.

The Chinese ship does have a narrower flight deck however, It’s width of about 73 meters (240 feet) is very similar to preceding Type-001 and Type-002 carriers. There may be logistical reasons for this, such as dry dock sizes. Or it may simply be that the Chinese planners were happy with the width of the current carriers.

Going Electromagnetic
The major step change over the current carriers however is in how aircraft will be launched. The new ship is CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery) while the first two are STOBAR (Short Take-Off But Arrested Recovery). Like the Ford Class, the Type-003 is believed to use an Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) instead of a steam catapult. This should promise a faster launch rate. This is a cutting edge technology which has reportedly been less reliable so far on the Ford Class, although things are improving. Yet despite its challenges it is still seen as the way forward and we should not assume that the Chinese will have the same problems. For China it is pragmatic to go straight to EMALS and miss the steam catapult step.

The Type-003 has three catapults with two on the bow and one in a waist position. This is one fewer than the Ford Class which, like earlier American carriers with steam catapults, also has four.

Catapults, which are lacking on the current Chinese carriers, will allow new aircraft types to be carried. A new fixed-wing airborne early warning & control aircraft (AEW&C), the KJ-600, is expected to be aboard. This is, both in role and overall form, very similar to the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye. Other new aircraft are expected to include a carrier version of the FC-31 stealth fighter. A full-size mock-up of this has recently appeared at a test site in Wuhan. This will be generally equivalent of the Ford Classes’ F-35C Lightning-II. It has twin engines however, and possibly a larger internal weapons bay.

It is likely that this new plane will take some time to enter service so the Type-003 may start operations with a catapult capable version of the J-15 Flanker.

Finally here a clear image of the full carrier including its installed island.

(Image via Tieba) and thanks a lot to @raz_liu pic.twitter.com/orewwGVuz3

— @Rupprecht_A (@RupprechtDeino) June 30, 2021
Fewer Aircraft Elevators
The Ford Class has three aircraft elevators (lifts), one less than the preceding Nimitz Class. Despite this the combination of these and the ELAMS should provide a greater sortie rate than the Nimitz Class. The Chinese ship however has only two. These are both rectangular and on the starboard side of the flight deck. Possibly because of the larger island sits between them (unlike on the Ford Class where it is at the stern), the forward lift is very close to the catapults. The blast deflector is right next to it, not forward of it. This may limit its use while aircraft are taking off.

However, on paper the Chinese carrier should have a larger usable deck area thanks to fewer lifts. This may not be seen as a wise trade-off as it will take the Chinese longer to move aircraft up from the hangar. Actually the answer may lie in the Soviet legacy. The Type-003 appears to have inherited its twin lift arrangement directly from the Russian Admiral Kutzenov class.

The island of the Type-003 has only just been placed on the deck in the past few days. It appears shorter than the earlier Chinese carriers but retains their single-level control tower. Above it however will be large phased array radars. This is like the Ford Class.


To summarize, the Type-003 is slightly smaller in overall dimensions. It has fewer catapults and fewer aircraft elevators, which may reduce sortie rates. In general the American ship is a bold evolutionary leap based on decades of operational experience. The Chinese ship on the other hand is a much more conservative step forward from the less experienced carrier operator. There’s no denying that in overall terms the Type-003 is going to be a very large carrier which should be extremely potent. But it may be held back slightly by some design choices which are routed in Soviet thinking.

There are of course many details which we still cannot know about the Type-003. Or the Fords Class in some cases. But ultimately their combat effectiveness, if it ever comes to that, will partly be in the crew and doctrine. The PLAN lacks the vast experience of the U.S. Navy, but it is all the same rapidly gaining experience. it has been operating carriers for nearly 10 years and is clearly heavily invested in making them a success.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/20 ... ord-class/

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[vplemes]

Jennifer Zeng 曾錚 (@jenniferatntd) tweetou: Seems the flight deck of the #CCP's much boasted #Shandong (CV-17) aircraft carrier is broken. Another #tofu project? 近日卫星照片显示，泊港中的中共“山东号”（CV-17）航母，甲板上出现严重毁损. https://t.co/UmRCqMQmIe


Soltou pecinha?

[P44]

Já li que apenas estavam a lavar o convés

[vplemes]

Já li que apenas estavam a lavar o convés

Então devem ter usado muito solupan e derreteu o convés.

[vplemes]

Já li que apenas estavam a lavar o convés

Então devem ter exagerado no solupan e derreteu o convés.

[saullo]

Tomara que quando eles precisarem desses navios, eles falhem clamorosamente. Como tudo que vem de lá.

Abraços