Russia warns Georgia against force
Sunday, March 14, 2004 Posted: 7:15 AM EST (1215 GMT)
MOSCOW, Russia (CNN) -- Moscow has warned the former Soviet republic of Georgia not to use force against the autonomous Adzharia region, Interfax news agency reports.
Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Alexander Yakovenko said there were indications Tbilisi planned to force the region's unification with Georgia.
The statement follows a meeting between Adzharia's President Aslan Abashidze and Russian officials on Saturday.
"In case of a crisis," Yakovenko warned, "responsibility will lie with the Georgian leadership."
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, who is reported to have been denied entry into the region on Sunday, said he would give the Adzharian leadership time to "make the right choice and avoid confrontation.
"Georgia will make a maximum effort to resolve the situation peacefully," he told journalists from the Georgian Black Sea town of Poti, according to Interfax.
"On the other hand, we have no surrender plans this time."
Saakashvili has warned he does not want to see the Republic of Georgia broken up into feudal fiefdoms. He will meet his cabinet in Poti to determine how his government will deal with the autonomous region.
Abashidze fears Saakashvili is trying to remove him from office, four months after he led a successful coup to replace longtime president Eduard Shevardnadze
A Coisa está pegando fogo na Georgia..
Moderadores: J.Ricardo, Conselho de Moderação
By Olegious
most people want our boys out of chechnya, we are tired of bringing them home in boxes, however there is precedent for the fact that chechen independence doesnt guarantee security for Russia or its citizens. all you have to do is look back to the end of the first war. Russian forces were pulled out, chechens were given control of the government. what were the results? Mashadov (i think thats was the name of the chechen president) couldnt bring the different warlords together, a power struggle insued. the republic was broken up into pieces each controlled by a different warlord. islamic extremists came to the country from the middle east as well as afghanistan (there are documented meetings that took place between Maschadov's government and the Taliban), and chechnya basically decended into chaos. using chechnya as a base, gangs kidnapped Russian, as well as British, Israili and other foreigners, held them in chechnya for ransom, according to reports the republic became a hotbed for narco and arms trafficking into Europe. then in 1999 armed chechen bands invaded the neighboring Russian republic of Dagestan, seeking to establish an islamic state. this is when the latest round of hostilities started.
the only way that i (as well as most Russians and the Russian govt) would approve of a pullout out of chechnya is if Russia's security could be guaranteed. the only way to guarantee this security (other than nuking it and killing everyone there, which obviously no one will do) is for chechnya to become a stable country, to do this it needs a strong government and a healthy economy. this is when it becomes difficult, i dont know if i'd want a UN like force in the region, or if this force would solve the problem. so i would take other's opinions on this matter.
another factor that most people seem to ignore is oil from the Caspian Sea. this factor partially explains Russia's involvment in chechnya and the US's involvement in Georgia as well as (possibly) Afghanistan and Iraq (and possibly Iran in the future if the impeding war against Iraq is successful).
just look at this map:
the pipeline running from Baku to Novorossisk goes directly through Grozny (capital of chechnya), this is the Russian pipeline, so obviously if you lose Grozny you lose the pipeline, ofcourse you can rebuild it and take it around chechnya, but that will take time and money, thereby giving American companies an edge, allowing them to capture a bigger share of the region's oil market. also, if you notice, instability in chechnya, can cut off Baku from Russia = no oil, so obviously you need chechnya to be stable.
now turning attention to the US, as you can see the oil pipeline "under construction" is a pipeline financed mainly by British and American companies, it runs through Tbilisi (capital of Georgia). If you recall, during the US invasion of Afghanistan $60+ mil (according to the Economist) in military aid (along with military "advisors") were sent to Georgia to "combat terror," basically what this means is that the aid was sent there to secure the pipeline project. if you lose Tbilisi, you lose the oil.
this also leads to other theories, for example, an unstable chechnya is beneficial to American oil companies, and is thus benificial to the US government, this is where the fact that most funding for the chechen terrorists comes from arab charities situated in the USA comes in. also an unstable Georgia is beneficial to Russia's oil companies and the Russian govt, this is where Russia's support for Abkhazia's rebells comes in.
so as you can see there are many factors involved, i cant discuss them all in detail as ive got a philosophy paper due tommorow, maybe next time.
the only way that i (as well as most Russians and the Russian govt) would approve of a pullout out of chechnya is if Russia's security could be guaranteed. the only way to guarantee this security (other than nuking it and killing everyone there, which obviously no one will do) is for chechnya to become a stable country, to do this it needs a strong government and a healthy economy. this is when it becomes difficult, i dont know if i'd want a UN like force in the region, or if this force would solve the problem. so i would take other's opinions on this matter.
another factor that most people seem to ignore is oil from the Caspian Sea. this factor partially explains Russia's involvment in chechnya and the US's involvement in Georgia as well as (possibly) Afghanistan and Iraq (and possibly Iran in the future if the impeding war against Iraq is successful).
just look at this map:
the pipeline running from Baku to Novorossisk goes directly through Grozny (capital of chechnya), this is the Russian pipeline, so obviously if you lose Grozny you lose the pipeline, ofcourse you can rebuild it and take it around chechnya, but that will take time and money, thereby giving American companies an edge, allowing them to capture a bigger share of the region's oil market. also, if you notice, instability in chechnya, can cut off Baku from Russia = no oil, so obviously you need chechnya to be stable.
now turning attention to the US, as you can see the oil pipeline "under construction" is a pipeline financed mainly by British and American companies, it runs through Tbilisi (capital of Georgia). If you recall, during the US invasion of Afghanistan $60+ mil (according to the Economist) in military aid (along with military "advisors") were sent to Georgia to "combat terror," basically what this means is that the aid was sent there to secure the pipeline project. if you lose Tbilisi, you lose the oil.
this also leads to other theories, for example, an unstable chechnya is beneficial to American oil companies, and is thus benificial to the US government, this is where the fact that most funding for the chechen terrorists comes from arab charities situated in the USA comes in. also an unstable Georgia is beneficial to Russia's oil companies and the Russian govt, this is where Russia's support for Abkhazia's rebells comes in.
so as you can see there are many factors involved, i cant discuss them all in detail as ive got a philosophy paper due tommorow, maybe next time.
***Russian Defense Ministry Refutes Georgian Report On Violation Of Its Airspace
The Russian helicopter did not violate Georgian airspace, reported the press service of the Russian defense ministry.
"The flights of the army aviation were not made at a time mentioned by the Georgian side as a time of the Russian helicopter's violation of the Georgian airspace," said the agency's interlocutor.
Earlier, the Georgian side declared that the Russian military helicopter Mi-24 violated the airspace of Georgia at 11.05, Moscow time on March 26 near the Kodori Gorge on the border with Abkhazia, the rebellious autonomy of Georgia.
/RIA NOVOSTI/
The Russian helicopter did not violate Georgian airspace, reported the press service of the Russian defense ministry.
"The flights of the army aviation were not made at a time mentioned by the Georgian side as a time of the Russian helicopter's violation of the Georgian airspace," said the agency's interlocutor.
Earlier, the Georgian side declared that the Russian military helicopter Mi-24 violated the airspace of Georgia at 11.05, Moscow time on March 26 near the Kodori Gorge on the border with Abkhazia, the rebellious autonomy of Georgia.
/RIA NOVOSTI/
14:33 2004-05-03
ADZHARIA: NÃO HAVERÁ CONFLITO
Na sequência da afirmação do MRE da Federação Russa ontem que Tblissi e Batumi devem resolver a questão por meios pacíficos, vem a confirmação da Geórgia, que nega “toda a informação acerca do uso de força” contra Adzharia, que proclama o estatuto de estado separado.
No entanto, Tblissi acusa o líder da Adzharia, Aslan Abashidze, da violação de direitos humanos contra a população na República separatista e afirma que o acto de destruir as pontes, que davam acesso a Adzharia, é uma provocação.
Tblissi afirma que Abashidze dispersa manifestações pacíficas com violência, bloqueia cargas humanitárias e prende cidadãos sem causa.
Konstantin KODENETS
PRAVDA.Ru
ADZHARIA: NÃO HAVERÁ CONFLITO
Na sequência da afirmação do MRE da Federação Russa ontem que Tblissi e Batumi devem resolver a questão por meios pacíficos, vem a confirmação da Geórgia, que nega “toda a informação acerca do uso de força” contra Adzharia, que proclama o estatuto de estado separado.
No entanto, Tblissi acusa o líder da Adzharia, Aslan Abashidze, da violação de direitos humanos contra a população na República separatista e afirma que o acto de destruir as pontes, que davam acesso a Adzharia, é uma provocação.
Tblissi afirma que Abashidze dispersa manifestações pacíficas com violência, bloqueia cargas humanitárias e prende cidadãos sem causa.
Konstantin KODENETS
PRAVDA.Ru
17:56 2004-05-08
GEÓRGIA: ADZHARIA SERÁ AUTÓNOMA
Depois da demissão de Aslan Abashidze, o líder da região autónoma de Adzharia, o representante do Presidente da Geórgia, Mikhail Saakashvili, declarou hoje que Tblissi quer manter o estatuto de autonomia na República.
Levan Vashalomidze disse que “O Presidente da Geórgia repetiu muitas vezes que a liderança deste país não tenciona abolir a autonomia em Adzharia”, em declarações à estação de TV Imedi.
Estabeleceu um Conselho Provisório, que irá desenvolver uma nova estratégia económica para a Adzharia, admitindo que “Adzharia é uma das regiões mais ricas e suas riquezas pertencem à sua população”. No dia 6 de Maio, Saakashvili assinou um decreto presidencial, estabelecendo a autoridade directa de Tblissi em Adzharia, que será exercida através do porta-voz.
Levan Vashalomidze criticou a administração de Aslan Abashidze, que liderou a região autónoma desde 1991, afirmando que “Governo autónomo não quer dizer governo por um homem só”.
Mais afirmou que o futuro da Adzharia passará sempre pela Lei Fundamental da Geórgia.
Visto que esta lei foi baseada nas intenções dos Estados Unidos da América em Geórgia, visto que Saakashvili foi colocado por Washington, com que direito é que Washington agora começa a interferir nas outras regiões da CEI?
Konstantin KODENETS
PRAVDA.Ru
GEÓRGIA: ADZHARIA SERÁ AUTÓNOMA
Depois da demissão de Aslan Abashidze, o líder da região autónoma de Adzharia, o representante do Presidente da Geórgia, Mikhail Saakashvili, declarou hoje que Tblissi quer manter o estatuto de autonomia na República.
Levan Vashalomidze disse que “O Presidente da Geórgia repetiu muitas vezes que a liderança deste país não tenciona abolir a autonomia em Adzharia”, em declarações à estação de TV Imedi.
Estabeleceu um Conselho Provisório, que irá desenvolver uma nova estratégia económica para a Adzharia, admitindo que “Adzharia é uma das regiões mais ricas e suas riquezas pertencem à sua população”. No dia 6 de Maio, Saakashvili assinou um decreto presidencial, estabelecendo a autoridade directa de Tblissi em Adzharia, que será exercida através do porta-voz.
Levan Vashalomidze criticou a administração de Aslan Abashidze, que liderou a região autónoma desde 1991, afirmando que “Governo autónomo não quer dizer governo por um homem só”.
Mais afirmou que o futuro da Adzharia passará sempre pela Lei Fundamental da Geórgia.
Visto que esta lei foi baseada nas intenções dos Estados Unidos da América em Geórgia, visto que Saakashvili foi colocado por Washington, com que direito é que Washington agora começa a interferir nas outras regiões da CEI?
Konstantin KODENETS
PRAVDA.Ru
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Spetsnaz escreveu:A Rússia está ficando cada vez mais cercada... UE de um lado, e EUA do outro ... e o EUA ca "democracia" deles estão impondo a vontade deles nos governos fracos e instaveis de alguns paises da CEI ...
Cercada em que sentido? Econômico?
Por que militarmente, acho que nenhum país no mundo é louco em tentar alguma coisa contra a Russia. Principalmente agora que ela está cada vez mais integrada com o ocidente.
Abraço a todos
César
"- Tú julgarás a ti mesmo- respondeu-lhe o rei - É o mais difícil. É bem mais difícil julgar a si mesmo que julgar os outros. Se consegues fazer um bom julgamento de ti, és um verdadeiro sábio."
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
César escreveu:Spetsnaz escreveu:A Rússia está ficando cada vez mais cercada... UE de um lado, e EUA do outro ... e o EUA ca "democracia" deles estão impondo a vontade deles nos governos fracos e instaveis de alguns paises da CEI ...
Cercada em que sentido? Econômico?
Por que militarmente, acho que nenhum país no mundo é louco em tentar alguma coisa contra a Russia. Principalmente agora que ela está cada vez mais integrada com o ocidente.
Abraço a todos
César
humm Militarmente é incontestavel que os EUA estão posicionando uma grande quantidade de tropas em volta da Rússia ... mas eu queria dizer no sentido dos Russos estarem perdendo Influencia em paises que históricamente possuem laços com a russia ... alguns forçados mesmo assim possuem .. influencia .. e a Rússia está perdendo isso .. e perdendo a Hegemonia na região .. uma região que históricamente "pertence" a Rússia .. caraca to morrendo d sono..
