tanques e blindados

[FCarvalho]

O Borsuk só não se cria por aqui pois não tem versão MMBT, que pelo jeito é o que o exército agora quer porque quer.

Mas é anfíbio e salvo erro o vosso Exército fica todo molhado só de pensar em blindados anfíbios.

Sim, como o K-21 sul coreano, mas os requisitos da VBC CC e VBC Fuz, como podes ver no tópico afim, praticamente eliminou a possibilidade de termos dois blindados diferentes para um e outro.
Então, vamos de MMBT e seja o que o EB quiser.
O Boruk seria um ótimo candidato para a VBC Fuz, mas não tem versão MMBT. Já o K-21 oferece versão com canhão de 105mm, o que não chega a atender o que foi proposto.
De qualquer forma, isso tudo foi jogado para daqui a 3 anos.
Acredito que até lá muita água ainda irá passar debaixo dessa ponte.
Veremos o que acontece.

[cabeça de martelo]

Italian Army to replace its Ariete tanks with up to 380 German KF51 Panthers.

According to Defence Industry Europe on January 16, 2025, the Italian Ministry of Defence announced plans to procure up to 380 new tanks based on the German KF51 Panther at the IAV 2025 conference. Additionally, over 1,000 infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) will be acquired as part of an extensive modernization program. To replace the aging C1 and C2 Ariete tanks, the KF-51 will be adapted to meet the specific operational requirements of the Italian Army. The program includes support vehicles built on the KF51 platform, and the overall budget for this initiative is expected to exceed €10 billion.

Italy’s development of a new main battle tank (MBT) is driven by the obsolescence of its C1 and C2 Ariete tanks, with a focus on enhanced lethality, mobility, survivability, and advanced networking capabilities. The Italian government has previously approved an €8.2 billion investment plan running from 2025 to 2038 for this purpose. These capabilities are being addressed through the adoption of the KF51 Panther, with additional customization, referred to as "Italianisation," to meet the unique operational needs of the Italian Army. The platform will be part of a broader fleet that includes recovery, rescue, and engineering variants.

To facilitate the achievement of this ambitious program, Leonardo and Rheinmetall established a 50:50 joint venture named Leonardo Rheinmetall Military Vehicles (LRMV) in October 2024. This partnership aims to develop and manufacture the KF51 Panther and KF41 Lynx platforms for the Italian Army. Approximately 60% of the production activities will take place in Italy, with facilities in La Spezia handling assembly, integration of mission systems, and testing. The collaboration seeks to position Italy as a hub for advanced armored vehicle production and to explore export opportunities.

The second program, named A2CS, involves the acquisition of approximately 1,050 IFVs based on the KF41 Lynx platform. These vehicles will be developed in 16 configurations to fulfill various roles, including command posts, self-propelled mortars, anti-tank operations, reconnaissance, and engineering support. The modular design of the Lynx platform ensures adaptability for diverse mission profiles. The program is valued at €16 billion, with deliveries expected to commence in 2027.

The KF51 Panther, developed by Rheinmetall, represents the latest generation of main battle tanks and was first unveiled at Eurosatory 2022. The design builds upon the Leopard 2A4 hull but incorporates significant advancements in firepower, mobility, and protection. Hungary has partnered with Rheinmetall to develop a variant tailored to its requirements, and Italy's adoption further demonstrates the platform's appeal. The Panther is also under consideration by other NATO and international operators, indicating its potential for broader deployment.


The latest variant of the KF51 Panther is the KF51-U, unveiled at Eurosatory 2024, featuring an unmanned turret, a three-crew hull configuration, an autoloader-fed 130 mm main gun with 25 rounds, and a coaxial 12.7 mm heavy machine gun. (Picture source: Army Recognition)

Key features of the KF51 Panther, one of the most modern tanks available to date, include a 130 mm L/52 smoothbore cannon, offering a 50% increase in firepower compared to existing 120 mm systems. The tank's autoloader supports rapid reloading, and its secondary armament comprises a 12.7 mm coaxial machine gun and a remote-controlled 7.62 mm NATTER RCWS. The Panther also has provisions for integrating HERO 120 loitering munitions, enabling extended engagement ranges and reconnaissance capabilities. Its modular design allows for adaptation to future mission requirements, including unmanned turret variants.

The Panther's protection suite consists of passive, reactive, and active systems, such as the StrikeShield active defense system and the Top Attack Protection System (TAPS). These features are designed to counter threats from kinetic projectiles, anti-tank guided missiles, and aerial attacks. Advanced sensors and 360-degree situational awareness systems enhance its survivability and operational effectiveness. Mobility is ensured by a V12 diesel engine producing 1,500 horsepower, providing a range of 500 kilometers and a top speed of 70 km/h. Collectively, these capabilities position the KF51 Panther as a versatile and future-ready main battle tank for modern militaries.

Since January 2024, Italy has initiated multiple modernization programs across its armed forces. In the land domain, the Italian Army began acquiring 21 U.S.-made M142 HIMARS rocket launchers to expand its long-range strike capabilities, complementing its existing M270A1 MLRS systems. Additionally, the Iveco Oto Melara Consortium delivered 76 VBM PLUS armored vehicles, including 60 combat and 16 anti-tank variants, as part of the Army’s medium brigade modernization. Testing has also started for the Lynx KF41 Infantry Fighting Vehicle under the Armoured Infantry Combat System (AICS) program, with plans to acquire 1,050 Lynx-based vehicles and 280 Panther KF51 main battle tanks. Italy also selected the Rheinmetall Skynex C-RAM air defense system, ordering an initial €73 million package including 35mm cannons, sensors, and command modules, with options for additional units.

In the air domain, Italy expanded its F-35 program to 115 aircraft with an investment of €7 billion, covering both F-35A and F-35B variants for the Air Force and Navy. In December 2024, a contract was signed for 24 new Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft to replace older Tranche 1 models, integrating systems such as the AESA Captor-E radar and upgraded defensive capabilities. Naval modernization efforts included the commissioning of a new Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD), the Trieste, which is the largest Italian naval vessel since World War II, designed for amphibious and air operations. Additionally, Italy has invested in directed energy weapons for counter-drone defense as part of its naval updates.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/ar ... on-program

[gabriel219]

O Exército Brasileiro é LITERALMENTE o único país do mundo a substituir MBTs por IFVs. Ninguém ainda conseguiu cometer tamanha atrocidade e olha que tem muito Exército comandando por imbecis por ai, como é a UK Army.

[FCarvalho]

Esse negócio dos italianos com o KF-51 e o KF-41 talvez possa mudar as regras do jogo em 2028 por aqui.
A ver o que acontece.

[cabeça de martelo]

[Viktor Reznov]

Italian Army to replace its Ariete tanks with up to 380 German KF51 Panthers.

According to Defence Industry Europe on January 16, 2025, the Italian Ministry of Defence announced plans to procure up to 380 new tanks based on the German KF51 Panther at the IAV 2025 conference. Additionally, over 1,000 infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) will be acquired as part of an extensive modernization program. To replace the aging C1 and C2 Ariete tanks, the KF-51 will be adapted to meet the specific operational requirements of the Italian Army. The program includes support vehicles built on the KF51 platform, and the overall budget for this initiative is expected to exceed €10 billion.

Italy’s development of a new main battle tank (MBT) is driven by the obsolescence of its C1 and C2 Ariete tanks, with a focus on enhanced lethality, mobility, survivability, and advanced networking capabilities. The Italian government has previously approved an €8.2 billion investment plan running from 2025 to 2038 for this purpose. These capabilities are being addressed through the adoption of the KF51 Panther, with additional customization, referred to as "Italianisation," to meet the unique operational needs of the Italian Army. The platform will be part of a broader fleet that includes recovery, rescue, and engineering variants.

To facilitate the achievement of this ambitious program, Leonardo and Rheinmetall established a 50:50 joint venture named Leonardo Rheinmetall Military Vehicles (LRMV) in October 2024. This partnership aims to develop and manufacture the KF51 Panther and KF41 Lynx platforms for the Italian Army. Approximately 60% of the production activities will take place in Italy, with facilities in La Spezia handling assembly, integration of mission systems, and testing. The collaboration seeks to position Italy as a hub for advanced armored vehicle production and to explore export opportunities.

The second program, named A2CS, involves the acquisition of approximately 1,050 IFVs based on the KF41 Lynx platform. These vehicles will be developed in 16 configurations to fulfill various roles, including command posts, self-propelled mortars, anti-tank operations, reconnaissance, and engineering support. The modular design of the Lynx platform ensures adaptability for diverse mission profiles. The program is valued at €16 billion, with deliveries expected to commence in 2027.

The KF51 Panther, developed by Rheinmetall, represents the latest generation of main battle tanks and was first unveiled at Eurosatory 2022. The design builds upon the Leopard 2A4 hull but incorporates significant advancements in firepower, mobility, and protection. Hungary has partnered with Rheinmetall to develop a variant tailored to its requirements, and Italy's adoption further demonstrates the platform's appeal. The Panther is also under consideration by other NATO and international operators, indicating its potential for broader deployment.


The latest variant of the KF51 Panther is the KF51-U, unveiled at Eurosatory 2024, featuring an unmanned turret, a three-crew hull configuration, an autoloader-fed 130 mm main gun with 25 rounds, and a coaxial 12.7 mm heavy machine gun. (Picture source: Army Recognition)

Key features of the KF51 Panther, one of the most modern tanks available to date, include a 130 mm L/52 smoothbore cannon, offering a 50% increase in firepower compared to existing 120 mm systems. The tank's autoloader supports rapid reloading, and its secondary armament comprises a 12.7 mm coaxial machine gun and a remote-controlled 7.62 mm NATTER RCWS. The Panther also has provisions for integrating HERO 120 loitering munitions, enabling extended engagement ranges and reconnaissance capabilities. Its modular design allows for adaptation to future mission requirements, including unmanned turret variants.

The Panther's protection suite consists of passive, reactive, and active systems, such as the StrikeShield active defense system and the Top Attack Protection System (TAPS). These features are designed to counter threats from kinetic projectiles, anti-tank guided missiles, and aerial attacks. Advanced sensors and 360-degree situational awareness systems enhance its survivability and operational effectiveness. Mobility is ensured by a V12 diesel engine producing 1,500 horsepower, providing a range of 500 kilometers and a top speed of 70 km/h. Collectively, these capabilities position the KF51 Panther as a versatile and future-ready main battle tank for modern militaries.

Since January 2024, Italy has initiated multiple modernization programs across its armed forces. In the land domain, the Italian Army began acquiring 21 U.S.-made M142 HIMARS rocket launchers to expand its long-range strike capabilities, complementing its existing M270A1 MLRS systems. Additionally, the Iveco Oto Melara Consortium delivered 76 VBM PLUS armored vehicles, including 60 combat and 16 anti-tank variants, as part of the Army’s medium brigade modernization. Testing has also started for the Lynx KF41 Infantry Fighting Vehicle under the Armoured Infantry Combat System (AICS) program, with plans to acquire 1,050 Lynx-based vehicles and 280 Panther KF51 main battle tanks. Italy also selected the Rheinmetall Skynex C-RAM air defense system, ordering an initial €73 million package including 35mm cannons, sensors, and command modules, with options for additional units.

In the air domain, Italy expanded its F-35 program to 115 aircraft with an investment of €7 billion, covering both F-35A and F-35B variants for the Air Force and Navy. In December 2024, a contract was signed for 24 new Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft to replace older Tranche 1 models, integrating systems such as the AESA Captor-E radar and upgraded defensive capabilities. Naval modernization efforts included the commissioning of a new Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD), the Trieste, which is the largest Italian naval vessel since World War II, designed for amphibious and air operations. Additionally, Italy has invested in directed energy weapons for counter-drone defense as part of its naval updates.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/ar ... on-program

A Itália está com uns gastos militares impressionantes ultimamente. Se continuarem nesse ritmo, vão se equiparar à França em termos de potência regional da OTAN e suplantar o Reino Unido.

[Viktor Reznov]

O preço desses sistemas é um roubo. Os engenheiros e técnicos que trabalham nesse sistema devem estar ganhando em ouro pra custar essa fortuna.

[knigh7]

Tamos fudidos.

Eu não sei como o EB vai se virar com menos de 10 baterias (com 4 UT cada) de canhões antiaéreos modernos autopropulsados.

[gabriel219]

Isso virá da SIATT, com o tempo.

[FCarvalho]

Quando as ffaa's por aqui se tocarem de que existe vida inteligente para além da Europa e USA em matéria de defesa, vamos parar de nos preocupar com preços e custos, e começar a focar em resultados e operacionalidade.
Daí eles que se virem para correr atrás de nós.
A quantidade de defesa AAe para as três forças é tão grande e massiva, em todos os níveis, que vamos levar pelo menos 10 a 20 anos só para (re)organizar tudo e comprar\produzir o que é necessário.
Tempo de sobra para nascer e morrer várias empresas, produtos e soluções para nós no mercado internacional, e até no doméstico.
A ver.

[knigh7]

Isso virá da SIATT, com o tempo.

E a SIATT vai fazer o que na torre para torná-la mais barata?
O sistema Skyknight usa a torre Skyranger da Rheinmmetall.
Nos até podemos pegar um canhão antiaéreo e desenvolver uma torre aqui. Mas de quantas estamos falando para o EB? 40? 50? Qual é o ganho de escala para justificar o desenvolvimento?

[FCarvalho]

Fazendo as contas, há de se considerar 8 Bia AAe Mec, 2 GAAe AP SL e mais 7 GAAe, que supostamente irão também receber artilharia de tubo para complementar os SAM média\grande altura.
Além destes, no papel, temos 3 AD que demandam seus GAAe\Bia\Seç AAe, além das DE existentes, e a serem criadas, conforme nota do exército, todas com GAAe e\ou Bia AAe orgânicas, que podem ser auto propulsadas ou não.
Enfim, se for por questão de quantidade, a demanda que temos só no EB mais que justifica pagar o desenvolvimento de uma torre e canhão por aqui mesmo. O sistema se paga sozinho produzindo apenas para mobiliar o exército. Se colocar as demandas de FAB e MB no meio, melhor ainda. Só não fazem porque não querem, e porque não tem dinheiro mesmo.
E ainda sairia mais barato do que comprar algo pronto e acabado lá fora.
Há pelo menos uma dúzia de fornecedores de canhões AAe de tiro rápido no mundo. É só escolher o que oferecer as melhores condições.

[knigh7]

Fazendo as contas, há de se considerar 8 Bia AAe Mec, 2 GAAe AP SL e mais 7 GAAe, que supostamente irão também receber artilharia de tubo para complementar os SAM média\grande altura.
Além destes, no papel, temos 3 AD que demandam seus GAAe\Bia\Seç AAe, além das DE existentes, e a serem criadas, conforme nota do exército, todas com GAAe e\ou Bia AAe orgânicas, que podem ser auto propulsadas ou não.
Enfim, se for por questão de quantidade, a demanda que temos só no EB mais que justifica pagar o desenvolvimento de uma torre e canhão por aqui mesmo. O sistema se paga sozinho produzindo apenas para mobiliar o exército. Se colocar as demandas de FAB e MB no meio, melhor ainda. Só não fazem porque não querem, e porque não tem dinheiro mesmo.
E ainda sairia mais barato do que comprar algo pronto e acabado lá fora.
Há pelo menos uma dúzia de fornecedores de canhões AAe de tiro rápido no mundo. É só escolher o que oferecer as melhores condições.

De quantas baterias vc está escrevendo para receber canhões antiaéreos?

[FCarvalho]

Fazendo as contas, há de se considerar 8 Bia AAe Mec, 2 GAAe AP SL e mais 7 GAAe, que supostamente irão também receber artilharia de tubo para complementar os SAM média\grande altura.
Além destes, no papel, temos 3 AD que demandam seus GAAe\Bia\Seç AAe, além das DE existentes, e a serem criadas, conforme nota do exército, todas com GAAe e\ou Bia AAe orgânicas, que podem ser auto propulsadas ou não.
Enfim, se for por questão de quantidade, a demanda que temos só no EB mais que justifica pagar o desenvolvimento de uma torre e canhão por aqui mesmo. O sistema se paga sozinho produzindo apenas para mobiliar o exército. Se colocar as demandas de FAB e MB no meio, melhor ainda. Só não fazem porque não querem, e porque não tem dinheiro mesmo.
E ainda sairia mais barato do que comprar algo pronto e acabado lá fora.
Há pelo menos uma dúzia de fornecedores de canhões AAe de tiro rápido no mundo. É só escolher o que oferecer as melhores condições.

De quantas baterias vc está escrevendo para receber canhões antiaéreos?

8 Bia AAe Mec para as brigadas cav\inf mecanizadas;

2 Bia AAe SL nas duas bdas bldas;

6 GAAe\GAAe Sl com 1 Bia AAe Can a fim e substituir os Bofors e Oerlinkon;

3 Bia AAe ou Seç AAe para auto defesa nas 3 AD ativas hoje;

9 GAAe ou Bia AAe para as DE, caso todas a serem criadas e\ou existentes venham a receber este tipo de material.

2 Bia AAe para os GMF.

A decisão pelo tipo de vetor a ser utilizado para o transporte das torres será de acordo com as OM nas quais serão empregados. Mas, grosso modo, a maioria irá operar sobre plataformas SR ou SL, com os GAAe recebendo plataformas operadas a partir de módulos onde tais torres sejam operadas a partir do solo, e controladas desde os PC das Bia ou Grupo.

Mesmo que sejam apenas 4 UT por Bia ou GAAe, temos números mais que robustos para concretizar a produção no país. Se o EB for além do minimalismo de sempre, bom, podemos ir mais longe do que pensamos.

obs: não considerei as SU AAe em nível Btl ou Regimento, ou abaixo deles, e que também devem contar, segundo os manuais do exército, com seus próprios elementos de defesa AAe de curto alcance.

[delmar]

O preço desses sistemas é um roubo. Os engenheiros e técnicos que trabalham nesse sistema devem estar ganhando em ouro pra custar essa fortuna.

É mais ou menos como o caso da IA. Colocam o valor do produto num patamar altissimo, bilhões de dólares, de repente aparece alguém com o mesmo produto por uma fração do custo. Os governos estão sendo extorquidos por uma máfia de poucos fabricantes.