EDIT - Caso Boeing-EMBRAER: sua posição?

[Tutankhamon]

UNITED AIRLINES COMPRA 25 JATOS E-175 DA EMBRAER

Como se vê os jatos são preço de tabela e seguem as encomendas.

Descontos como da Airbus , como disse, podem ser indicação de desespero mesmo sendo ou não, é insustentável.

Abraços

https://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/e ... ines.ghtml

[knigh7]

Airbus desesperada? Como vocês sobrevalorizam o poder da Embraer....

Está havendo muito nacionalismo e pouca lei de mercado nas discussões...

[Tutankhamon]

Airbus desesperada? Como vocês sobrevalorizam o poder da Embraer....

Está havendo muito nacionalismo e pouca lei de mercado nas discussões...

Saudações Knigh7,

De minha parte não sobrevalorizo, nem diminuo a influência dos produtos e da Embraer, até pelo contrário, depois da " compra" do programa dos C-Series da Bombardier temos Airbus e Boeing, e, bem lá atrás em poder de barganha, a Embraer.
Acho que a lei de mercado não determina dar 76% de desconto num produto como no caso da JetBlue.
Apenas reforço o que já disse antes, uma tacada de marketing muito forte para posicionar o "novo" produto da Airbus.

Abração.

[arcanjo]

Publicado Em 15/07/2018
DEFENSE NEWS - Boeing and Embraer have a new deal. What it means for defense is unclear.

Valerie Insinna

RAF FAIRFORD, England — Earlier this month, Boeing and Embraer struck a deal on a joint venture that would give Boeing control of the Brazilian company’s commercial jet business. But what the agreement will mean for their associated defense units is still being hammered out, a Boeing defense exec said Friday.

During a briefing to reporters on the sidelines of the Royal International Air Tattoo, Gene Cunningham, who leads Boeing’s international defense business, called the Embraer-Boeing deal a work in progress, “particularly on the defense side.”

“So to talk about what we’re going to do marketwise or how we’re going to approach [our partnership], that’s probably a little premature right at this point in time,” he said. “I think what’s important is to see the strength of association of the companies and the product lines that are out there, as well as the great services/install base we have and how that really blends and matches for the products and services across the board. And that’s one that we’ve got to work our way through at this point.”

In its initial statement released after the commercial joint venture was announced, Boeing stated that both companies would seek to create another defense-specific joint venture “to promote and develop new markets and applications […] based on jointly identified opportunities.”

Embraer’s KC-390 multi-mission plane was specifically mentioned as an area for potential cooperation. Both companies had already agreed in 2012 to jointly market the KC-390, with a deal signed in 2016 that laid out that Boeing would take responsibility for logistical support of the aircraft as it was sold to customers around the world.

Greg Smith, Boeing’s executive vice president for enterprise performance and strategy and chief financial officer, told reporters Sunday that the KC-390 has a special focus inside the Embraer tie-up.

Asked specifically if Boeing would have a financial percntage in each KC-390 sold, Smith said “we’re still working through final details of that,” but did note that the two companies are going partner together to “sell that aircraft globally,” another sign the KC-390 agreement will cover more than just the services aspect.

It’s possible that Boeing could even begin marketing KC-390 within the United States if an expanded partnership is agreed upon, Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst with the Teal Group, told Defense News.

“Maybe Boeing can convince SOCOM [U.S. Special Operations Command] or somebody to take a few of these. It’s not inconceivable,” he said.

There may be a chance for Boeing to partner in some way with Embraer on the A-29 Super Tucano, which is sold in the United States through prime contractor Sierra Nevada Corp. It could also find a role in Saab’s Gripen E program, where Embraer is doing final assembly of Brazilian jets.

“The potential is great. If you apply Boeing’s’ cost control methods and supply management methods to the Gripen, you get the Gripen product at a lower price point,” he said. “That’s always been the Gripen’s problem. Great plane. Way too expensive for what it is.”

Another potential opportunity lies inside Embraer’s portfolio of business jets, a lucrative business for the Brazilian company that could plug a hole in Boeing’s aviation portfolio.

Boeing’s super-profitable commercial side makes large airliners like the Boeing 777 or the 787 Dreamliner, but doesn’t produce small business jets — which has been a hindrance in international special mission aircraft competitions where foreign nations may prefer a smaller plane, Aboulafia said.

“Not everyone needs a full up Wedgetail,” he said, referencing Boeing’s 737-based airborne early warning aircraft. “They’ve been trying to sell the 737 for everything for so long. It’s a Rivet Joint replacement. […] It’s a Compass Call replacement. But people are pushing back and saying it’s not 737 for all occasions.”

Fonte: Defense News, via NOTIMP http://www.fab.mil.br/notimp#n136186

abs.

arcanjo

[arcanjo]

16 JULY, 2018
FARNBOROUGH: Proposed Boeing/Embraer JV could work on 'next-generation' KC-390

SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM BY: STEPHEN TRIMBLE FARNBOROUGH

The scope of a proposed joint venture between Embraer and Boeing includes collaborating on potential upgrades and modifications of the Brazilian manufacturer’s KC-390 airlifter.

Embraer and Boeing announced plans on 5 July to form a joint venture to develop new markets and applications for defence products and services, with a particular emphasis on the twin-engined airlifter.

Details of the final agreement remain under negotiations, but the potential remit appears to be broader than first realised.

The focus remains on collaborating on sales and marketing of the KC-390, but it also could include re-engineering the airlifter as new requirements from potential customers emerge, says Greg Smith, Boeing’s chief financial officer.

“Most of it [will be] sales and marketing of the programme,” Smith says. “But we will collaborate on next generations and modifications that will be required to open that marketplace for the KC-390.”

Attention has focused on Boeing’s potential new role in the KC-390 programme, but the deal encompasses other defence products and services.

The two companies have collaborated closely for several years in the commercial sector, and the ties between them have also been strong in the defence market. In previous years, Boeing has agreed to collaborate with Embraer on sales and marketing and engineering for the KC-390 and the A-29 Super Tucano.

But the main purpose of the new joint venture, if finalised, would be to support sales for the KC-390, Smith says.

“We’re going to partner and sell that aircraft globally,” he adds. “That is the foremost objective here.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -o-450322/

abs.

arcanjo

[Carlos Lima]

Publicado Em 15/07/2018
DEFENSE NEWS - Boeing and Embraer have a new deal. What it means for defense is unclear.

Valerie Insinna

RAF FAIRFORD, England — Earlier this month, Boeing and Embraer struck a deal on a joint venture that would give Boeing control of the Brazilian company’s commercial jet business. But what the agreement will mean for their associated defense units is still being hammered out, a Boeing defense exec said Friday.

During a briefing to reporters on the sidelines of the Royal International Air Tattoo, Gene Cunningham, who leads Boeing’s international defense business, called the Embraer-Boeing deal a work in progress, “particularly on the defense side.”

“So to talk about what we’re going to do marketwise or how we’re going to approach [our partnership], that’s probably a little premature right at this point in time,” he said. “I think what’s important is to see the strength of association of the companies and the product lines that are out there, as well as the great services/install base we have and how that really blends and matches for the products and services across the board. And that’s one that we’ve got to work our way through at this point.”

In its initial statement released after the commercial joint venture was announced, Boeing stated that both companies would seek to create another defense-specific joint venture “to promote and develop new markets and applications […] based on jointly identified opportunities.”

Embraer’s KC-390 multi-mission plane was specifically mentioned as an area for potential cooperation. Both companies had already agreed in 2012 to jointly market the KC-390, with a deal signed in 2016 that laid out that Boeing would take responsibility for logistical support of the aircraft as it was sold to customers around the world.

Greg Smith, Boeing’s executive vice president for enterprise performance and strategy and chief financial officer, told reporters Sunday that the KC-390 has a special focus inside the Embraer tie-up.

Asked specifically if Boeing would have a financial percntage in each KC-390 sold, Smith said “we’re still working through final details of that,” but did note that the two companies are going partner together to “sell that aircraft globally,” another sign the KC-390 agreement will cover more than just the services aspect.

It’s possible that Boeing could even begin marketing KC-390 within the United States if an expanded partnership is agreed upon, Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst with the Teal Group, told Defense News.

“Maybe Boeing can convince SOCOM [U.S. Special Operations Command] or somebody to take a few of these. It’s not inconceivable,” he said.

There may be a chance for Boeing to partner in some way with Embraer on the A-29 Super Tucano, which is sold in the United States through prime contractor Sierra Nevada Corp. It could also find a role in Saab’s Gripen E program, where Embraer is doing final assembly of Brazilian jets.

“The potential is great. If you apply Boeing’s’ cost control methods and supply management methods to the Gripen, you get the Gripen product at a lower price point,” he said. “That’s always been the Gripen’s problem. Great plane. Way too expensive for what it is.”

Another potential opportunity lies inside Embraer’s portfolio of business jets, a lucrative business for the Brazilian company that could plug a hole in Boeing’s aviation portfolio.

Boeing’s super-profitable commercial side makes large airliners like the Boeing 777 or the 787 Dreamliner, but doesn’t produce small business jets — which has been a hindrance in international special mission aircraft competitions where foreign nations may prefer a smaller plane, Aboulafia said.

“Not everyone needs a full up Wedgetail,” he said, referencing Boeing’s 737-based airborne early warning aircraft. “They’ve been trying to sell the 737 for everything for so long. It’s a Rivet Joint replacement. […] It’s a Compass Call replacement. But people are pushing back and saying it’s not 737 for all occasions.”

Fonte: Defense News, via NOTIMP http://www.fab.mil.br/notimp#n136186

abs.

arcanjo

Repetindo...

“The potential is great. If you apply Boeing’s’ cost control methods and supply management methods to the Gripen, you get the Gripen product at a lower price point,” he said. “That’s always been the Gripen’s problem. Great plane. Way too expensive for what it is.”

É assim que somos vistos...

[]s
CB

[FCarvalho]

Estamos f... e mal pagos. E ainda com um leve sorriso no rosto.

Abs

[gabriel219]

Pois é, mas fiquem relaxados, que a titia Boeing vai trazer linhas de produção por país sim, abiguinhos, pode confiar.

Eles não vão querer incorporar a Defesa e Executiva não...

[FCarvalho]

Acreditar na Boeing nesse negócio é como deixar a porta de casa aberta e sair, ou acreditar em promessas de políticos.

Só no Brasil mesmo.

Abs

[gabriel219]

https://g1.globo.com/sp/vale-do-paraiba ... 2dfe4667dc

Pra quem estava dizendo que: "ain, só com a boeing que o E2 faz sucesso".

Mas é claro, 20% da JV e ter a área de Defesa e Executiva sendo incorporada aos poucos é um "EXCELENTE NEGÓCIO". Isso depois de tomar um chá de cogumelo - de procedência duvidosa - e acreditar que a Boeing vai construir qualquer coisa do Brasil.

[Carlos Lima]

Estamos f... e mal pagos. E ainda com um leve sorriso no rosto.

Abs

Indios e os seus espelhinhos.

Venho dizendo isso a muito tempo!

Nao fico feliz em ter razao.

[]s
CB

[gabriel219]

Engraçado é alguém que fabrica o SH - depois de ter vendido por USD 185 mi pra Austrália - vim falar que o Gripen é caro demais pra o que oferece...

Na moral, eu mandava esse cara tomar no c# com responsabilidade.

Ainda arristo a dizer que o Gripen + Meteor é mais letal que o SH + AIM-120, muito devido ao RCS e a conciência situacional/HMI do Gripen em relação ao SH.

[Túlio]

Repetindo...

“The potential is great. If you apply Boeing’s’ cost control methods and supply management methods to the Gripen, you get the Gripen product at a lower price point,” he said. “That’s always been the Gripen’s problem. Great plane. Way too expensive for what it is.”

É assim que somos vistos...

[]s
CB

Pura verdade, sim sinhô, baita isenção da parte de um cara que tem seu próprio caça - que PERDEU, aliás, para o Gripen no FX - vir dizer "é, té que é bunitim u cacim mas a gente faz melhor e mais balatim..."

Caça, aliás, que foi desenvolvido pela Northrop nos anos 60 (Família Cobra); como YF-17 perdeu pro YF-16 (que como F-16 está aí até hoje e vai seguir por décadas) nos 70 e finalmente, após ser comprado pela McDonnell-Douglas e esta pela Boeing, achou seu nicho na Navy & USMC nos 80, onde o "rival" era o ainda mais obsoleto Phantom. Aliás, uma historinha pouco difundida é a da proibição dos EUA em permitir que retrofitassem F-4 com turbina F-404 e radar APG-65; Israel bem que tentou (incluindo um FBW para resolver o problema do efeito diedral) mas ia ser um baita problema, pois com isso o Phantom - que ainda existia aos balaios - fazia tudo o que o F/A-18 podia fazer e com maior alcance. Mas isso não convém, claro...

Sei lá, se é para dizer mal do caça sueco e usar isso para (nunca vou entender como conseguem) mostrar que a Boeing é simultaneamente o Pai da Verdade e a Mãe da Mentira (e dê-le DUPLIPENSAR), conforme o caso, levo mais fé no Françuá e no Fritz, estes ao menos têm caças modernos para mostrar. Nunca vi Operadores chamarem Rafale e/ou Typhoon de "super bug"...

[Carlos Lima]

Bom... o que ele est'a dizendo nao 'e algo impensavel e nem longe de se compreender.

Mas fica a'i mais uma opiniao sobre o assunto. So 'e interessante a origem.

[]s
CB

[Túlio]

Bom... o que ele est'a dizendo nao 'e algo impensavel e nem longe de se compreender.

Mas fica a'i mais uma opiniao sobre o assunto. So 'e interessante a origem.

[]s
CB

Charla! Nem é o caso de comparar F-18 com Gripen ou qualquer outro Eurocanard mas com o F-16! Quantos F/A-18A/B MLU tem voando por aí mesmo? E F-16?

Novamente, nem precisamos falar em Eurocanard, basta dizer que botar um IRST num F-16 é apenas questão de o cliente solicitar (EAU, p ex), já no F-18 atual (e nos anteriores idem) ou é pod ou tem que tirar o Vulcan (canhão acima do radar é herança antiga da Northrop, aliás, só ver o F-5).

Mas vamos esperar a finalização do desenvolvimento do substituto de um verdadeiro ícone dos EUA, o T-38 Talon, em cuja concorrência tem o team Boeing-SAAB e ver o que sai e quem ganha. Daí veremos se o bonzim bonzim, balatim balatim é verdade...