Dúvida

[Super Flanker]

Pessoal, procurei algum tópico ideal que eu pudesse pergunta isso, mas não encontrei.
Qual a diferença de Fragata, Destroyer, Corveta, Contra-torpedeiro?
E já que um submarino eh considerado uma arma tão letal, não é preferível ter uma marinha apenas com submarinos ou então com a maioria sendo subs?

Abraço.

[brisa]

corveta é pititinha....fragata é um pouquinho maior....destroyer é grandão e contra torpedeiro é velhinho.....

[alexmabastos]

Super Flanker,
Vá ao tópico Estratégia Naval. Lá nosso colega sr. Marino nos informa com riquíssimo material, dentre outras coisas, o que é oquê e pra quê serve o que existe numa marinha de guerra abaixo, sobre ou bem mais acima da linha d`água.
Com relação ao tamanho dos navios, várias marinhas adotam seu meio de classificação que varia consideravelmente. Umas querem que seus navios pareçam menores, outras, maiores. E por aí vai.
Boa leitura.

Alex

[P44]

Não existe regra concreta, especialmente no caso da distinção Fragata/Destroyer=contratorpedeiro em Português, embora geralmente se associe Destroyer a um navio mais pesado e de maior tonelagem que uma Fragata...

p. ex. as Fragatas F-100 Espanholas são designadas Destroyers pela Marinha Australiana, que encomendou unidades semelhantes a Espanha

Corvetas são navios mais pequenos e de menor tonelagem, logo abaixo das fragatas

talvez isto tb ajude:

Pre Guided Missile Warship definitions:

Warship Types

Battleship (BB): Historically, the final arbiter of sea power. Descended from "battle ship of the line," which were the largest and most heavily gunned sailing warships (ex: H.M.S. Victory). After the end of the age of sail, the most heavily armed and protected warships were just called "battleships."

After the advent of H.M.S. Dreadnought, battleships were also called, generically, "dreadnoughts." (See below under Miscellaneous Terms for more about the Dreadnought.) This term basically just means a battleship armed with one size of big gun.

Battleships also carry the heaviest armor of all warships, generally intended to protect them from guns of the approximate size they themselves carried.

It was expected that in war, battleships would endeavor to meet their enemy in the sort of battle where one battle line would steam parallel to the enemy battle line and they would shoot it out until one battle line was sunk. This practically never happened (Tsushima and Jutland being the two times I can think of when it did, except that the Germans fled at Jutland and the battle was indecisive).

In WW II, BB's seldom fought each other, and in much smaller engagements when they did, usually just one or two battleships at a time. By then what is now called the 3rd generation of battleships were known as "fast battleships." (Dreadnought, and battleships like her armed with all 11" or 12" guns represented the first generation. The 2nd generation were the super Dreadnoughts with 13.5" to 16" guns, but speed still limited to the range of 20-24 knots.)

With the fast battleship, the battlecruiser and battleship types had merged. Battle line speeds were now 27 to 30 knots, about as fast as destroyers and cruisers could travel in a seaway. The battlecruiser H.M.S. Hood was really the precursor to all the fast battleships that followed. Improvement in power plants and the increase in size made high speed and heavy armor possible in the same ship. By treaty, the 3rd generation battleships built just before WW II were about 35,000 tons displacement. Read the introduction to my essay about the Treaty Battleships for more on this subject.

Battlecruiser (CC):

The rather rigid sort of battle as envisioned for the battle line led to the development of the battlecruiser. Battlecruisers, along with battleships, are classed as "capital ships." The battlecruiser was a ship about as large as a battleship and with battleship size guns, but protected againstcruiser (6" or 8") gunfire, not against battleship gunfire. In the first and second generation ships, the weight that would have been devoted to additional armor was instead devoted to additional propulsion machinery. This allowedcruiser speeds (26 to 30 knots).

Since the battlecruiser could outshoot cruisers, it could sink enemy scout cruisers, and brush aside enemy cruiser screens to scout the enemy fleet's disposition. Of course, this only applied as long as the enemy did not also have battlecruisers. Since both sides built the type, they evolved toward the fast battleship. Protection against the enemy battlecruiser's big guns became important. This was driven home to the British in WW I at the Battle of Jutland, where they lost 3 CC's to enemy gunfire, which hastened the development of H.M.S. Hood. Hood was the first CC to carry the same thickness of armor as contemporary battleships. In order to combine heavy armor with high speed (given the efficiency of steam turbines at the time she was designed--during WW I), she was about 10,000 tons bigger than contemporary battleships (31,000t vs. 41,000 tons).

Only Russia operates modern, guided missile equipped battlecruisers today. Read the introduction to my essay about battlecruisers for more information about these fascinating ships.

Large cruiser (CB), super cruiser, pocket battleship:



All terms used for ships that were basically battlecruisers, built at a time when it was politically incorrect to build battlecruisers. After the loss of three lightly armored battlecruisers at Jutland, the type came into serious question. Yet the need for the type still existed. So navies found other names for the type, names for which politicians would appropriate money. The smallest were the German "pocket battleships" (more properly "pocket battlecruisers") at about 13,000 tons (11 in. guns), and the biggest about 30,000 tons (12 " to 14" guns). Again, read my essay "Battlecruisers, Large Cruisers . . . ."

Cruiser (C):

The next biggest surface combatant after the capital ships. During the interwar years cruisers were limited by treaty to a maximum size of 10,000 tons standard displacement. Two types were defined by treaty: heavy cruisers (CA)--cruisers with 8 inch guns, and light cruisers (CL)--cruisers with 6 inch guns.

Cruisers had many roles. One was literally cruising the world; showing the flag, and representing overwhelming force that could be brought to bear far from home in colonial times. In wartime cruisers were to operate alone on the high seas to interdict enemy commerce; also to protect the battle line against enemy scout (light) cruisers. These were mostly heavy cruiser roles. Heavy cruisers are the smallest warships to which the term "heavy ships" is applied.

Light cruisers were primarily scout cruisers, intended to operate far in front of the battle line to find the enemy battle line and report its position. Also to drive off enemy destroyers that might attempt to torpedo friendly capital ships. Also to patrol lines of commerce against raiders. As they grew larger, their role tended to merge with that of the heavy cruisers.

Both wound up about 10,000 ton ships; the heavy cruisers carried 8 to 10 8" guns, the light cruisers carried 12 to 15 6" guns, and both carried a heavy battery of secondary and AA guns. Some cruisers also carried torpedo tubes. Both types usually had top speeds in excess of 30 knots. For more information, read the introduction to my essay "Heavy Cruisers of WW II."

Today, cruisers are primarily guided missile warships, ranging in size from around 7,000 to 10,000 tons. Only the world’s largest navies can afford to build and operate modern cruisers, principally the United States and Russia.

Destroyer (DD):

Historically called torpedo boat destroyers. Destroyers came about after the invention of the whitehead (self-propelled) torpedo. Suddenly there was a weapon that could be carried on a small, fast, cheap motorboat type of craft that could strike a capital ship underwater, bypassing all its armor protection (which at that time was designed to protect against gunfire above the surface, not threats below), and sink it.

Small fleets that could not afford capital ships built torpedo boats to defend against them. Naturally, the major naval powers that did have battleships moved to build small, fast, vessels that were larger and much better armed (with guns) than torpedo boats, and which were blue water ships that could travel with the fleet to defend it against torpedo boats.

Thus the torpedo boat destroyer came about. Later the name was shortened to just "destroyer." Soon, the destroyer itself was armed with torpedoes as well as guns. This allowed it to torpedo bigger enemy warships beyond the range of the small coastal torpedo boats. Torpedo boats were revived by all combatants in WW II--we called ours "PT" (Patrol Torpedo) boats, and John F. Kennedy commanded one. As it turned out, torpedo boats did little damage in any war, but destroyers became the jack of all trades among warships. Today, they are the largest surface combatants operated by most navies, ranging in size up to about 6,000 tons.

When submarines became practical, the destroyer was equipped with depth charges, SONAR, and other ASW weapons, and became their major enemy. Destroyers were used to protect convoys and larger warships against submarines. When aircraft became a major threat to ships, destroyers became AA ships as well. WW II destroyers ran around 2,000 tons, and were armed with a main battery of 4 to 6-4" to 5" guns, AA guns, torpedo tubes, and depth charges and other AS weapons. They were fast ships, generally capable of 30+ knots in calm seas.

Destroyer Escort (DE):

A small destroyer, typically designed more for antisubmarine warfare than general purpose fleet defense. Along with frigates, DE's were the smallest blue water surface combatants. They were mass produced in great numbers during the Second World War, primarily as convoy escorts, but served in many capacities and in every theater. WW II DE's ran around 1,200 tons or smaller. DE’s carried a lighter main battery than destroyers (3-3" or 2-5" guns would be typical), plus AA guns, and perhaps a small battery of torpedo tubes. Their AS weapons fit was usually their strength. They were generally slower than fleet destroyers, with top speeds of 20-24 knots.

Frigate (FF):

Another term for Destroyer Escort. Most European nations, including the British, called their DE's "frigates." Today, the U. S. Navy has abandoned the destroyer escort nomenclature, and also calls this class of warship frigates. Like all other classes of warships, frigates have grown in size. Today they are larger than WW II destroyers, often displacing up to 3,000 tons, and are usually capable of top speeds of 27 to 30 knots.

Submarine (SS):

Submersible Ship. Modern submarines, if not nuclear powered, are sub-classed as "coastal" (short range) or "fleet" (oceanic patrol) types.

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/navy- ... iser-3430/

[brisa]

Vixe..... la vem o P44 com os seus estudos na Escola de Sagres.....

[P44]

Vixe..... la vem o P44 com os seus estudos na Escola de Sagres.....

Sagres ou Super Bock

[brisa]

.... aqui no Brasil, a gente fala assim..... "voce me apertou sem me abraçar".....

...ooooooppppsssss.... eu não sou o Bourne

[P44]

um abraço por trazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Bourne]

.... aqui no Brasil, a gente fala assim..... "voce me apertou sem me abraçar".....

...ooooooppppsssss.... eu não sou o Bourne

Pelo menos, belas senhoritas como está sempre me abraçam com força.

As vezes dá até claustrofobia

[Túlio]

Eu estava pensando: existe a EEAer para formar Sargentos de carreira para a FAB; a EsSA para formar Sargentos de carreira para o EB. E para a MB/CFN, existe algo parecido ou o índio só faz o curso de Soldado ou Marinheiro e vai subindo?

[Marino]

A MB não possui concurso direto da vida civil para uma Escola de Sargentos.
Nela, a Praça entra como Marinheiro, faz o curso de especialização sendo promovido a Cabo, e faz um concurso para a Escola de Sargentos, que funciona no CIAA (Centro de Instrução Almirante Alexandrino), no Rio.
https://www.ciaa.mar.mil.br/
Para os FN, as escolas são outras, mas a forma é igual.
http://br.video.yahoo.com/watch/72503/575641

[Túlio]

Valews aí, CMG véio, me bateu essa enquanto tomava café. Cada uma que a gente pensa, né?

[JL]

As classificações estão bagunçadas porque cada marinha adota a sua.
Mas em tese seria: do menor para o maior - 1 ) corveta 2 ) fragata 3 ) destróier 4 ) cruzador. Maior que o cruzador é o encouraçado em português o equivalente ao battleship ou navio de batalha. No Brasil destróier é contratorpedeiro.

Cada nome tem a sua origem:

Fragata é bem antigo, designava um navio rápido com três mastros e armado com canhões no convés, era menor que a nau, veloz e rápido com grande poder de fogo. Já o destróier é bem mais recente, em português contratorpedeiro que vem do francês contre-torpilleur e destróier do inglês torpedo-boat-destroyer. Designação para um navio que visava combater os barcos torpedeiros, na verdade também um torpedeiro maior e com artilharia mais forte. Hoje uma fragata e um destróier são praticamente a mesma coisa.
A principal característica da fragata é ser um navio oceânico com maior porte e autonomia que a corveta, que é um navio de guerra bem menor, para ações de menor autonomia, mais próximas da base e do litoral. Um nome que voltou com os ingleses na Segunda Guerra os norte americanos não adotavam esta designação usavam o termo caça-submarino.
O cruzador é o bicho papão dos navios de guerra, grande e bem armado. Hoje tem cruzadores apenas nos EUA e na Rússia.
O tema é bastante complexo:
Tem ainda a canhoneira - gun boat, a torpedeira - torpedo-boat, a FAC que são lanchas com mísseis, monitor que são navios de guerra fluviais.
Sugiro que faça uma pesquisa porque tem muita informação na net.

[LeandroGCard]

As classificações estão bagunçadas porque cada marinha adota a sua.
Mas em tese seria: do menor para o maior - 1 ) corveta 2 ) fragata 3 ) destróier 4 ) cruzador. Maior que o cruzador é o encouraçado em português o equivalente ao battleship ou navio de batalha. No Brasil destróier é contratorpedeiro.

Cada nome tem a sua origem:

Fragata é bem antigo, designava um navio rápido com três mastros e armado com canhões no convés, era menor que a nau, veloz e rápido com grande poder de fogo. Já o destróier é bem mais recente, em português contratorpedeiro que vem do francês contre-torpilleur e destróier do inglês torpedo-boat-destroyer. Designação para um navio que visava combater os barcos torpedeiros, na verdade também um torpedeiro maior e com artilharia mais forte. Hoje uma fragata e um destróier são praticamente a mesma coisa.
A principal característica da fragata é ser um navio oceânico com maior porte e autonomia que a corveta, que é um navio de guerra bem menor, para ações de menor autonomia, mais próximas da base e do litoral. Um nome que voltou com os ingleses na Segunda Guerra os norte americanos não adotavam esta designação usavam o termo caça-submarino.
O cruzador é o bicho papão dos navios de guerra, grande e bem armado. Hoje tem cruzadores apenas nos EUA e na Rússia.
O tema é bastante complexo:
Tem ainda a canhoneira - gun boat, a torpedeira - torpedo-boat, a FAC que são lanchas com mísseis, monitor que são navios de guerra fluviais.
Sugiro que faça uma pesquisa porque tem muita informação na net.

Ou compre os volumes 8 e 9 da séria " Coleção Armas de Guerra" , já nas bancas por R$20,00 cada. Os livrinhos são cheios de erros de montagem e impressão, mas tem muita informação e ilustrações interessantes também.


Leandro G. Card

[gaitero]

Pessoal, procurei algum tópico ideal que eu pudesse pergunta isso, mas não encontrei.
Qual a diferença de Fragata, Destroyer, Corveta, Contra-torpedeiro?
E já que um submarino eh considerado uma arma tão letal, não é preferível ter uma marinha apenas com submarinos ou então com a maioria sendo subs?

Abraço.

Cara..

Fragata, Corveta e Destroyer, no fundo são tudo escoltas...

Então, na dúvida fala escolta e pronto...


Tem país que chama navios de pequeno porte de Fragata.. E outros navios de médio porte de Destroyer, assim como tem lugares que chamam navios de grande porte de Fragata...

Normalmente os Destroyer são os navios mais bem armados da esquadra.. Então a comparação tem de ser feita com os navios da esquadra em si... Ja as Fragatas normalmente são navios multiuso.. e as Corvetas, os menos armados e de menor porte.

Em marinhas mais bem armadas, um navio pode ser chamado de Fragata, e este mesmo navio, ser chamado de Destroyer em uma Marinha de menor porte.

E assim vai...

O importante é saber que os três, tem finalidades semelhantes, dependendo do armamento incorporado.

E que o papel é monitorar, patrulhar, escoltar e proteger navios estratégicos, como porta aviões, NT, navios de desembarque, etc...