Eurofighter Typhoon
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Olá pessoal
Já agora sobre o Super Étendard mais algumas considerações.
Inicialmente o Étendard era para ser um avião baseado em terra como um avião de ataque leve ao solo. Só que nem a FAF nem outras forças da NATO se interessaram pelo aparelho e este acabou por ser adoptado pela Marinha Francesa como avião de ataque embarcado como Étendard IVM.
Só que no início dos anos 70, a Marinha pensou em substitui-lo. Houve vários concorrentes a concurso, só que a Dassault convenceu o governo a escolher o Étendard numa versão mais avançada que foi o Super Étendard. Foi uma escolha política em detrimento da versão marítima do Jaguar. É óbvio que o Jaguar era melhor, mas a Dassault manobrou a coisa para que fosse escolhido um avião inteiramente nacional.
O Super Étendard nunca foi um grande avião de ataque, pois tinha um raio de acção limitado e uma carga de armas que não passava os 2,100 kg. A grande vantagem era mesmo a combinação Agave/Exocet.
Quando a Argentina encomendou o avião em 79, era uma novidade aquele tipo de combinação e mostrou-se fatal nas Guerra das Malvinas. Mas se repararem, além da Argentina, mais ninguém no exterior comprou o aparelho. O Iraque, por exemplo, preferiu o Mirage F1 com Agave/Exocet.
Um abraço
Zé
Já agora sobre o Super Étendard mais algumas considerações.
Inicialmente o Étendard era para ser um avião baseado em terra como um avião de ataque leve ao solo. Só que nem a FAF nem outras forças da NATO se interessaram pelo aparelho e este acabou por ser adoptado pela Marinha Francesa como avião de ataque embarcado como Étendard IVM.
Só que no início dos anos 70, a Marinha pensou em substitui-lo. Houve vários concorrentes a concurso, só que a Dassault convenceu o governo a escolher o Étendard numa versão mais avançada que foi o Super Étendard. Foi uma escolha política em detrimento da versão marítima do Jaguar. É óbvio que o Jaguar era melhor, mas a Dassault manobrou a coisa para que fosse escolhido um avião inteiramente nacional.
O Super Étendard nunca foi um grande avião de ataque, pois tinha um raio de acção limitado e uma carga de armas que não passava os 2,100 kg. A grande vantagem era mesmo a combinação Agave/Exocet.
Quando a Argentina encomendou o avião em 79, era uma novidade aquele tipo de combinação e mostrou-se fatal nas Guerra das Malvinas. Mas se repararem, além da Argentina, mais ninguém no exterior comprou o aparelho. O Iraque, por exemplo, preferiu o Mirage F1 com Agave/Exocet.
Um abraço
Zé
- Alitson
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Além da França e Argentina o Iraque chegou a rceber pelo menos 5 Super Étendart no inicio da decada de oitenta... Agora o por que e como eu não sei... Só sei que eles o tinham!!!!!!!!!!!
A&K M249 MK.I
G&P M4 CARBINE V5
G&P M4A1
G&P M16A3+M203
ARES SCAR-L
KING ARMS M4CQB
STARK ARMS G-18C GBB
CYMA G-18C AEP
G&P M4 CARBINE V5
G&P M4A1
G&P M16A3+M203
ARES SCAR-L
KING ARMS M4CQB
STARK ARMS G-18C GBB
CYMA G-18C AEP
- delmar
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Super Etendard
O Iraque recebeu um lote de 5 aviões, ao que parece alugados, que começaram a operar em 1984 contra petroleiros iranianos usando exocet. Não há informação confiavel sobre o desempenho. Em 1985, 04 deles foram devolvidos. Um teria sido abatido por caças iranianos.
saudações
O Iraque recebeu um lote de 5 aviões, ao que parece alugados, que começaram a operar em 1984 contra petroleiros iranianos usando exocet. Não há informação confiavel sobre o desempenho. Em 1985, 04 deles foram devolvidos. Um teria sido abatido por caças iranianos.
saudações
Todas coisas que nós ouvimos são uma opinião, não um fato. Todas coisas que nós vemos são uma perspectiva, não a verdade. by Marco Aurélio, imperador romano.
delmar escreveu:Super Etendard
O Iraque recebeu um lote de 5 aviões, ao que parece alugados, que começaram a operar em 1984 contra petroleiros iranianos usando exocet. Não há informação confiavel sobre o desempenho. Em 1985, 04 deles foram devolvidos. Um teria sido abatido por caças iranianos.
saudações
Pelo visto naum gostaram do desempenho desses cacas por que se naum, naum teriam devolvido, teriam ficado com os cacas
Apesar de todos os problemas, ainda confio no Brasil
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Olá pessoal
Como o Delmar disse foram alugados 5 Super Etendards ao Iraque, enquanto este não recebia os Mirages F.1 EQ-5 equipados com Agave. Dos 5 aviões alugados os iranianos reclamaram ter abatido 3. Dois por Tomcats e um por um F-4E. No entanto, a França diz que dos 5 aparelhos, 4 regressaram a França. Portanto, não há aqui uma concordância sobre o nº de aparelhos abatidos.
O Super Étendard foi, no entanto, uma solução provisória para o Iraque enquanto não chegavam os Mirages.
Um abraço
Zé
Como o Delmar disse foram alugados 5 Super Etendards ao Iraque, enquanto este não recebia os Mirages F.1 EQ-5 equipados com Agave. Dos 5 aviões alugados os iranianos reclamaram ter abatido 3. Dois por Tomcats e um por um F-4E. No entanto, a França diz que dos 5 aparelhos, 4 regressaram a França. Portanto, não há aqui uma concordância sobre o nº de aparelhos abatidos.
O Super Étendard foi, no entanto, uma solução provisória para o Iraque enquanto não chegavam os Mirages.
Um abraço
Zé
- Dinivan
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HALLBERGMOOS (GERMANY), 30 (RNewswire).- The number of aircraft delivered into service with the four Eurofighter partner air forces of Germany, UK, Italy and Spain soared through fifty this week.
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Europa Press
30/06/2005 (09:05h.)
The German Luftwaffe and the Spanish Air Force simultaneously accepted aircraft into service on Wednesday, 29th June 2005 taking the total number of Eurofighter deliveries so far to 51 since the very first production off-take in June 2003.
Whilst all 30 Eurofighter Batch 1 aircraft and five Instrumented Production Aircraft (IPA) are already in service, 16 Batch 2 are now delivered to the air forces of Germany, UK, Spain and Italy bringing the total number of series production aircraft delivered so far to 51.
By industry/customer deliveries to date: By industry/customer deliveries to date: BAE Systems 15 (plus 2 IPA) - Royal Air Force EADS Germany 13 (plus 1 IPA) - German Luftwaffe EADS CASA 9 (plus 1 IPA) - Spanish Air Force Alenia 9 (plus 1 IPA) - Italian Air Force
The Batch 2 aircraft have Production System Package (PSP2) Capability with initial Defensive Aids Subsystem (DASS), Multifunctional Information and Distribution System (MIDS), initial Direct Voice Input (DVI) and initial Sensor Fusion.
Aloysius Rauen, the CEO of Eurofighter GmbH, commented: "We are delighted with this latest milestone. Eurofighter Typhoon is the biggest and most successful military aerospace programme in Europe. With 638 aircraft under contract to five nations Eurofighter GmbH holds the largest order book of any next generation fighter aircraft worldwide, making Eurofighter Typhoon the undisputed Number One in the new generation global fighter business.
"Eurofighter Typhoon has unquestioned capabilities acknowledged by the customers and international aerospace experts. Its operational potential reaches far into the first half of this century, offering huge technological and industrial advantages to new potential customers based on a large order book, reducing customer risk. The Eurofighter Typhoon programme is characterized as a fully open partnership with unrivalled technological and industrial return to customers who wish to join the project. All of our stakeholders can be proud that Eurofighter aircraft deliveries have exceeded 50," he said.
Images
High Resolution images of the Eurofighter Typhoon can be downloaded from our web site. Hard Copy images are available on request.
http://www.eurofighter.com/medialibrary
Notes to Editors:
Eurofighter Typhoon is the world's most advanced swing-role combat aircraft, developed by the leading aerospace companies, Alenia Aeronautica, BAE SYSTEMS, EADS in Germany and EADS CASA, of the four partner countries, Italy, United Kingdom, Germany and Spain.
Agile and highly manoeuvrable, the twin-engine Eurofighter Typhoon is designed to operate from hastily prepared bases and small runways for worldwide operations. It is equipped with an advanced multi-mode radar and an extensive range of sensors and electronic countermeasures.
The aircraft's ability to gain air superiority beyond visual range (BVR) and in close combat, and at the same time deliver high sortie rates against air, naval and ground targets in all weathers with a variety of weapons, demands close attention to pilot workload. In Eurofighter the pilot flies through use of a computerised flight control system, which offers full carefree handling.
A strong emphasis has been placed on reducing cost of ownership in addition to outstanding performance and flight safety. Eurofighter Typhoon is less expensive to operate than the generation of aircraft it is designed to replace. In respect to the cost to performance relationship Eurofighter is second to none of its competitors.
The Eurofighter partner nations plan to take delivery of 620 aircraft: 180 for Germany, 121 for Italy, 87 for Spain and 232 for the United Kingdom. An additional export order of 18 Eurofighter Typhoon has been signed with the Government of Austria.
The Royal Norwegian Ministry of Defence has agreed an industrial participation programme with Eurofighter GmbH for the future enhancement of the weapon system. Eurofighter Typhoon has also been selected by Greece to meet its respective requirements for a future fighter.
Following Type Acceptance on 30 June, 2003, delivery of Series Production Aircraft commenced to each of the four national air forces with entry into service declared in Spring of 2004.
With the signature of the Tranche 2 Production Contract on 14 December 2004, Eurofighter received the production go-ahead for more than 400 aircraft. Eurofighter Typhoon has the largest confirmed production contract order book of any next generation fighter aircraft.
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Europa Press
30/06/2005 (09:05h.)
The German Luftwaffe and the Spanish Air Force simultaneously accepted aircraft into service on Wednesday, 29th June 2005 taking the total number of Eurofighter deliveries so far to 51 since the very first production off-take in June 2003.
Whilst all 30 Eurofighter Batch 1 aircraft and five Instrumented Production Aircraft (IPA) are already in service, 16 Batch 2 are now delivered to the air forces of Germany, UK, Spain and Italy bringing the total number of series production aircraft delivered so far to 51.
By industry/customer deliveries to date: By industry/customer deliveries to date: BAE Systems 15 (plus 2 IPA) - Royal Air Force EADS Germany 13 (plus 1 IPA) - German Luftwaffe EADS CASA 9 (plus 1 IPA) - Spanish Air Force Alenia 9 (plus 1 IPA) - Italian Air Force
The Batch 2 aircraft have Production System Package (PSP2) Capability with initial Defensive Aids Subsystem (DASS), Multifunctional Information and Distribution System (MIDS), initial Direct Voice Input (DVI) and initial Sensor Fusion.
Aloysius Rauen, the CEO of Eurofighter GmbH, commented: "We are delighted with this latest milestone. Eurofighter Typhoon is the biggest and most successful military aerospace programme in Europe. With 638 aircraft under contract to five nations Eurofighter GmbH holds the largest order book of any next generation fighter aircraft worldwide, making Eurofighter Typhoon the undisputed Number One in the new generation global fighter business.
"Eurofighter Typhoon has unquestioned capabilities acknowledged by the customers and international aerospace experts. Its operational potential reaches far into the first half of this century, offering huge technological and industrial advantages to new potential customers based on a large order book, reducing customer risk. The Eurofighter Typhoon programme is characterized as a fully open partnership with unrivalled technological and industrial return to customers who wish to join the project. All of our stakeholders can be proud that Eurofighter aircraft deliveries have exceeded 50," he said.
Images
High Resolution images of the Eurofighter Typhoon can be downloaded from our web site. Hard Copy images are available on request.
http://www.eurofighter.com/medialibrary
Notes to Editors:
Eurofighter Typhoon is the world's most advanced swing-role combat aircraft, developed by the leading aerospace companies, Alenia Aeronautica, BAE SYSTEMS, EADS in Germany and EADS CASA, of the four partner countries, Italy, United Kingdom, Germany and Spain.
Agile and highly manoeuvrable, the twin-engine Eurofighter Typhoon is designed to operate from hastily prepared bases and small runways for worldwide operations. It is equipped with an advanced multi-mode radar and an extensive range of sensors and electronic countermeasures.
The aircraft's ability to gain air superiority beyond visual range (BVR) and in close combat, and at the same time deliver high sortie rates against air, naval and ground targets in all weathers with a variety of weapons, demands close attention to pilot workload. In Eurofighter the pilot flies through use of a computerised flight control system, which offers full carefree handling.
A strong emphasis has been placed on reducing cost of ownership in addition to outstanding performance and flight safety. Eurofighter Typhoon is less expensive to operate than the generation of aircraft it is designed to replace. In respect to the cost to performance relationship Eurofighter is second to none of its competitors.
The Eurofighter partner nations plan to take delivery of 620 aircraft: 180 for Germany, 121 for Italy, 87 for Spain and 232 for the United Kingdom. An additional export order of 18 Eurofighter Typhoon has been signed with the Government of Austria.
The Royal Norwegian Ministry of Defence has agreed an industrial participation programme with Eurofighter GmbH for the future enhancement of the weapon system. Eurofighter Typhoon has also been selected by Greece to meet its respective requirements for a future fighter.
Following Type Acceptance on 30 June, 2003, delivery of Series Production Aircraft commenced to each of the four national air forces with entry into service declared in Spring of 2004.
With the signature of the Tranche 2 Production Contract on 14 December 2004, Eurofighter received the production go-ahead for more than 400 aircraft. Eurofighter Typhoon has the largest confirmed production contract order book of any next generation fighter aircraft.
O míssil BVR utilizado pelo EFA200 não é o AMRAAM? De que adiantaria a FAB adotá-lo se não poderia ter acesso ao AIM-120 devido ao embargo americano.
Amraam, Meteor , Taurus.
Por cierto el ministro de defensa español a anunciado la adquicision de los 16 Ef2000 opcionales (veremos si no se quedan en la mitad).
Un saludo a todos, y perdonen no saber su idioma.
http://www.xp-office.de/eurofighter/Bil ... 00_jpg.jpg
Foto muito grande. Para visualizá-la, clique no link.
Dinivan escreveu:Por cierto el ministro de defensa español a anunciado la adquicision de los 16 Ef2000 opcionales
¡No tenía ni idea! solo por tener más información al respecto, ¿puedes poner el link a esta buenísima notícia?
Es una noticia que aparecio en la edicion impresa del diario el mundo y comentada en diversos foros de defensa de España, recogiendo las declaraciones de Jose Bono que decia la intencion/necesidad de equiparse con las 16 opciones del typhoon, partida que seria aprobada en la proxima legislatura, pues los presupuestos de esta ya estan cerrados.
Una noticia para tomarla con cautela, pero que no deja de ser esperanzadora. De todas formas, aun con la mitad de las opciones yo me conformaba .
Un saludo
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EADS CASA Military Aircraft Starts Eurofighter Heat Test Campaign in Southern Spain
(Source: EADS Military Aircraft; issued July 7, 2005)
MUNICH / MADRID --- EADS CASA Military Aircraft has just started long-term tests under operational conditions on a Eurofighter at the Spanish Air Force base of Morón (near Seville).
Following the Cold Environmental Trials carried out last winter near the Arctic Circle in Sweden, the instrumented production aircraft IPA4 and the mobile telemetry station were transferred from the EADS Military Aircraft Spain site at Getafe near Madrid to Morón, where an equally ambitious test programme is to be conducted.
As Eurofighter gives the user air forces an integrated Network Enabled Capability (NEC), which is indispensable for future operations among several Air Forces, the Spanish Air Force will actively support the tests by locating its MIDS (Multiple Information Distribution System) ground station at Morón and flying one or two operational Eurofighters in joint missions with the IPA 4. Moreover EADS CASA Military Aircraft will place its MIDS station at Talavera Air Base (near Portugal) and operate it from there. These circumstances will create the necessary network to conduct most favourable Data Link tests.
Morón in the south of Spain provides optimum conditions for the successful execution of the campaign. These include among other things the unusually high temperatures this summer, which will provide the proof that Eurofighter meets all the operational requirements, also under such extreme environmental conditions.
Furthermore, the proximity of the Atlantic Ocean offers flight corridors that also allow low-level supersonic flights, another common requirement for most of the planned flight tests.
With regards to the heat trials, EADS Military Aircraft Spain is continuing the test programme begun in the summer of 2004 but in the new aircraft configuration in line with the Block 2B design, which comprises the FLIR (Forward Looking Infra Red) sensor and the DASS (Defensive Aids Subsystems) on-board electronic self-protection system. The tests are taking place at approx. 43°C.
Along with this test series in the scorching sun of Spain there are additional test steps to be gone through in connection with "carefree handling" characteristics, in other words features that lighten the pilot's workload, such as the new automatic Manoeuvre Limitation System. This prevents the pilot from exceeding the boundary values determined by the flight parameters. Further test items are aircraft handling in the transonic range and acquisition of data on the aircraft's aeroelastic behaviour at high speeds (up to 750 kt).
The test programme will be examined in the course of 41 flights and numerous ground tests. To make optimum use of the flight operations during the test campaign, EADS Military Aircraft Spain has also planned to carry out in-flight refuelling with support from a Spanish Air Force C-130 Hercules.
Upon successful completion of the programme, this ambitious number of flights will have made an important contribution to punctual type acceptance of Block 2B.
The campaign is set to last until September 2005. A core team of 25 has been entrusted with carrying out the tests. As in other comparable campaigns, EADS Military Aircraft Spain will be cooperating closely with the Eurofighter partners in Germany, Great Britain and Italy as well as with the flight test centres of these countries and the operational units that already fly the Eurofighter.
EADS Military Aircraft, which is an integrated part of the EADS Defence & Security Systems Division (DS), concentrates all the EADS capabilities in the areas of high-performance combat aircraft, unmanned mission air vehicles (MALE) and unmanned combat air vehicles (UCAVs), manned mission aircraft and training aircraft and the ground support equipment for these systems.
EADS Defence & Security Systems, with revenues of about EUR 5.4 billion in 2004 and roughly 24,000 employees across ten nations, forms the defence pole within EADS. It offers integrated systems solutions to the new challenges confronting armed forces and homeland security units. It is active in the areas of military aircraft, missile systems, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) systems with manned and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), battlefield management systems, defence electronics, sensors and avionics, and related services.
EADS is a global leader in aerospace, defence and related services. In 2004, EADS generated revenues of EUR 31.8 billion and employed a workforce of about 110,000.
-ends-
(Source: EADS Military Aircraft; issued July 7, 2005)
MUNICH / MADRID --- EADS CASA Military Aircraft has just started long-term tests under operational conditions on a Eurofighter at the Spanish Air Force base of Morón (near Seville).
Following the Cold Environmental Trials carried out last winter near the Arctic Circle in Sweden, the instrumented production aircraft IPA4 and the mobile telemetry station were transferred from the EADS Military Aircraft Spain site at Getafe near Madrid to Morón, where an equally ambitious test programme is to be conducted.
As Eurofighter gives the user air forces an integrated Network Enabled Capability (NEC), which is indispensable for future operations among several Air Forces, the Spanish Air Force will actively support the tests by locating its MIDS (Multiple Information Distribution System) ground station at Morón and flying one or two operational Eurofighters in joint missions with the IPA 4. Moreover EADS CASA Military Aircraft will place its MIDS station at Talavera Air Base (near Portugal) and operate it from there. These circumstances will create the necessary network to conduct most favourable Data Link tests.
Morón in the south of Spain provides optimum conditions for the successful execution of the campaign. These include among other things the unusually high temperatures this summer, which will provide the proof that Eurofighter meets all the operational requirements, also under such extreme environmental conditions.
Furthermore, the proximity of the Atlantic Ocean offers flight corridors that also allow low-level supersonic flights, another common requirement for most of the planned flight tests.
With regards to the heat trials, EADS Military Aircraft Spain is continuing the test programme begun in the summer of 2004 but in the new aircraft configuration in line with the Block 2B design, which comprises the FLIR (Forward Looking Infra Red) sensor and the DASS (Defensive Aids Subsystems) on-board electronic self-protection system. The tests are taking place at approx. 43°C.
Along with this test series in the scorching sun of Spain there are additional test steps to be gone through in connection with "carefree handling" characteristics, in other words features that lighten the pilot's workload, such as the new automatic Manoeuvre Limitation System. This prevents the pilot from exceeding the boundary values determined by the flight parameters. Further test items are aircraft handling in the transonic range and acquisition of data on the aircraft's aeroelastic behaviour at high speeds (up to 750 kt).
The test programme will be examined in the course of 41 flights and numerous ground tests. To make optimum use of the flight operations during the test campaign, EADS Military Aircraft Spain has also planned to carry out in-flight refuelling with support from a Spanish Air Force C-130 Hercules.
Upon successful completion of the programme, this ambitious number of flights will have made an important contribution to punctual type acceptance of Block 2B.
The campaign is set to last until September 2005. A core team of 25 has been entrusted with carrying out the tests. As in other comparable campaigns, EADS Military Aircraft Spain will be cooperating closely with the Eurofighter partners in Germany, Great Britain and Italy as well as with the flight test centres of these countries and the operational units that already fly the Eurofighter.
EADS Military Aircraft, which is an integrated part of the EADS Defence & Security Systems Division (DS), concentrates all the EADS capabilities in the areas of high-performance combat aircraft, unmanned mission air vehicles (MALE) and unmanned combat air vehicles (UCAVs), manned mission aircraft and training aircraft and the ground support equipment for these systems.
EADS Defence & Security Systems, with revenues of about EUR 5.4 billion in 2004 and roughly 24,000 employees across ten nations, forms the defence pole within EADS. It offers integrated systems solutions to the new challenges confronting armed forces and homeland security units. It is active in the areas of military aircraft, missile systems, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) systems with manned and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), battlefield management systems, defence electronics, sensors and avionics, and related services.
EADS is a global leader in aerospace, defence and related services. In 2004, EADS generated revenues of EUR 31.8 billion and employed a workforce of about 110,000.
-ends-
- Lauro Melo
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30 de junho de 2005
Já passa de 50 o número de Eurofighters entregues
Em cerimônia realizada na Espanha no dia 29 de junho, foi entregue à Força Aérea daquele país o Eurofighter monoposto SS003, o 50º Eurofighter a ser produzido. No mesmo dia, e quase simultaneamente, outra cerimônia (em Manching, Alemanha) marcou a entrega à Luftwaffe do 51º exemplar a deixar a linha de produção. Já estão sendo produzidos todos os Eurofighter restantes dos 148 que compõem o primeiro lote (o chamado Tranche 1), e a encomenda do Tranche 2 foi assinada em dezembro de 2004 pelas quatro nações participantes: Alemanha, Grã-Bretanha, Itália a Espanha. Até o presente, a produção total de Eurofighters está prevista para 638 aeronaves.
http://www.segurancaedefesa.com/EF2000_50.htm
Já passa de 50 o número de Eurofighters entregues
Em cerimônia realizada na Espanha no dia 29 de junho, foi entregue à Força Aérea daquele país o Eurofighter monoposto SS003, o 50º Eurofighter a ser produzido. No mesmo dia, e quase simultaneamente, outra cerimônia (em Manching, Alemanha) marcou a entrega à Luftwaffe do 51º exemplar a deixar a linha de produção. Já estão sendo produzidos todos os Eurofighter restantes dos 148 que compõem o primeiro lote (o chamado Tranche 1), e a encomenda do Tranche 2 foi assinada em dezembro de 2004 pelas quatro nações participantes: Alemanha, Grã-Bretanha, Itália a Espanha. Até o presente, a produção total de Eurofighters está prevista para 638 aeronaves.
http://www.segurancaedefesa.com/EF2000_50.htm
"Os guerreiros não caem se ajoelham e levantam ainda mais fortes."
TOG: 22 anos de garra, determinação e respeito.
TOG: 22 anos de garra, determinação e respeito.
- FinkenHeinle
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talharim escreveu:Se cair o embrago militar europeu eu acho que a China compra um Tranche só para ela ............no mínimo uns 200 Typhos.......
Olá Grande Talharim!!!
Primeiro, acho que difícilmente cai o embargo, e segundo, acho que a China não vai deixar de fabricar os Flanker (o que dá alguma independência tecnológica, em um grau variável) e ainda criar um problema logístico ainda maior do que já tem!!!
Atte.
André R. Finken Heinle
"If the battle for civilization comes down to the wimps versus the barbarians, the barbarians are going to win."
Thomas Sowell
André R. Finken Heinle
"If the battle for civilization comes down to the wimps versus the barbarians, the barbarians are going to win."
Thomas Sowell
- talharim
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Mas que caça espetacular !
Os Europeus se superaram dessa vez.
"TALVEZ" o F-22 consiga batê-lo,os outros ficam atrás........
FOTO: http://www.bmlv.gv.at/archiv/a2005/airp ... _05_wg.jpg
edit - mod - você de novo, talharim. Na próxima o post será deletado.
Os Europeus se superaram dessa vez.
"TALVEZ" o F-22 consiga batê-lo,os outros ficam atrás........
FOTO: http://www.bmlv.gv.at/archiv/a2005/airp ... _05_wg.jpg
edit - mod - você de novo, talharim. Na próxima o post será deletado.