Caça de 5a geração chinês

[Bolovo]

na verdade existiam alguma diferenças entre o Buran e os space shuttle

São parecidos, porque os russos não quiseram reinventar a roda. Mas a grande diferença é no conceito. Me lembro que a Koslova explicou para mim uma vez a diferença entre as duas. A Shuttle é uma nave, que tem seus motores e os auxiliares, decola e deixa uma carga lá no espaço. Já o Buran é a carga, a nave é o booster Energia, tanto que o Buran nem motor tem (para sair da Terra). Por conta disso (não ter motor), ele chega a ter o dobro do espaço, salvo engano. E claro, por ser alguns anos mais novo, tinha algumas novidades a época, como piloto automático e etc. Hoje em dia as Shuttle são todas modernizadas, bem diferentes de como eram nos anos 80.

[P44]

Exacto, não se vai inventar a roda de novo.

[tflash]

Mas os americanos é que criaram o conceito, e esse mérito ninguém lhes pode tirar. Depois de eles terem feito missões com ele, os russos pegaram no conceito que já estava desenvolvido e fizeram melhoramentos, tal como os chineses fazem a tudo, desde as sandálias croc falsificadas a caça-bombardeiros.

Num projecto, quando se chega a um conceito que funciona, tem que se parar e passar a produção para optimizar os custos do desenvolvimento. Para fazer melhor tem que se esperar por um upgrade e o seu financiamento. Tivesse o programa de space shuttle um financiamento continuo, já teríamos algo à la filme "Armageddon." Ora se nós vamos iniciar um projecto baseado em algo feito por outros, o custo final acaba por ser o custo de um upgrade sem as condicionantes de ter que ser compatível com o modelo original. Neste caso é um cenário win-win para os chineses que é o assunto do tópico.

Agora, pode ter-se passado duas coisas. Os russos terem fornecido soluções que funcionavam mal, de propósito ou os chineses usarem componentes mais baratos para embaratecer o custo final e o resultado não ser aceitável.

[soultrain]

Isso não é assim tão simples, pelo contrário!

O que os chineses fizeram não foi copiar o conceito, foi fazer engenharia reversa que é algo completamente diferente.

[[]]'s

[joao fernando]

E o Buran só tem um desenho parecido, porque era um avião no retorno.

Tudo era diferente, mas para melhor, muito melhor.

[suntsé]

Esses chineses hein, ficar fazendo esta sacanagem com os maiores parceiros deles na esfera militar.

[P44]

Russia downplays Chinese J-15 fighter capabilities



Chinese J-10 fighter

19:25 04/06/2010

China's J-15 carrier-based fighter will not be able to compete with Russia's Su-33 fighter on global markets because it is inferior to the Russian aircraft, a Russian military analyst said on Friday.

China since 2001 has been developing the J-15 naval fighter, which is believed to be a clone of Russia's Su-33 Falcon-D. China bought an Su-33 prototype earlier from Ukraine, and used it to develop the new aircraft.

The J-15 is expected to be stationed initially onboard the Chinese Varyag aircraft carrier currently being fitted in the port of Dalian. China bought the unfinished Admiral Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier from Ukraine in 1998.

"The Chinese J-15 clone is unlikely to achieve the same performance characteristics of the Russian Su-33 carrier-based fighter, and I do not rule out the possibility that China could return to negotiations with Russia on the purchase of a substantial batch of Su-33s," said Col. (Ret.) Igor Korotchenko, a member of the Defense Ministry's Public Council.


The Su-33 is a carrier-based multi-role fighter, which can perform a variety of air superiority, fleet defense, air support and reconnaissance missions. The aircraft entered service with the Russian Navy in 1995 and are currently deployed on board the Admiral Kuznetsov aircraft carrier.

Korotchenko said China was unlikely to solve technical problems related to the design of the folding wings and to develop a reliable engine for the aircraft, although the first J-15 prototype reportedly made its maiden flight on August 31, 2009, powered by Chinese WS-10 turbofan engines.

China and Russia had been in negotiations on the sale of the Su-33 Flanker-D fighters to be used on future Chinese aircraft carriers since 2006, but the talks collapsed over China's request for an initial delivery of two aircraft for a "trial."

Russian Defense Ministry sources confirmed that the refusal was due to findings that China had produced its own copycat version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements.

In 1995, China secured a $2.5-billion production license from Russia to build 200 Su-27SKs, dubbed J-11A, at the Shenyang Aircraft Corp.

The deal required the aircraft to be outfitted with Russian avionics, radars and engines. Russia cancelled the arrangement in 2006 after it discovered that China was developing an indigenous version, J-11B, with Chinese avionics and systems. The decision came after China had already produced at least 95 aircraft.

Last year, Russia refused again to sell the Su-33 to China even after Beijing had offered to buy 14 of them, saying that at least 24 jets should be sold to recoup production costs.

MOSCOW, June 4 (RIA Novosti)

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100604/159306694.html

[hancelo]

alguem ai tem um binolulo? que ver em qual decada do século 21 os chineses irão ter um caça de 5º geração.

[Alitson]

Será que vc vai precisar? Muito antes do que todos imaginam e muito antes de um país europeu.

[Penguin]

Buemba!

Ares
A Defense Technology Blog

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... d=blogDest

One Foggy Day In China - Updated
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 12/25/2010 1:30 AM CST
Is China about to give airpower hawks their best Christmas present ever?

The internetz are buzzing (start here and here) with a picture that allegedly shows China's next-generation Chengdu J-20 fighter - the first known Chinese stealth aircraft - undergoing high-speed taxi trials, with rumors of a first flight within weeks.



The picture appeared today on the very popular Chinese military fan web site Top81, apparently taken by a cell phone from a car. The bad news is that it makes 1950s shots of new MiGs and Sukhois look like Katsu Tokunaga material. Rumor has it that better shots have put in transient appearances on Chinese websites before being zapped by the censor.

China military specialist and DTI contributor Rick Fisher notes that "in China's military fan web culture, the rapid intervention of the censors is always a boost for the credibility of the poster" and adds that his sources are also predicting an early first flight.

"Such drip-by-drip revelations are apparently condoned or even encouraged by the PLA," Fisher adds. "One rarely hears any more of web posters going to 'drink tea', the Chinese euphemism for having your life upended by the military or party police."

Overall, Fisher notes, "the web leaks will continue, as this feeds directly into the Communist Party's massive and well-stoked program to promote militaristic nationalism."

Some people are speculating intensively about details such as diverterless inlets and all-moving tails, but as Fisher cautions, "like so much of the PLA, you just can't say for sure what it is until it's falling on your head."

Update: The intel team is on high alert (via Pinko at Key Forums):



Update 2: When what to my wondering eye should appear...



Some observers on the boards are buying it, others say that it looks like a product of the Adobe OKB, involving digital miscegenation between an F-22 and the Sukhoi S-47 Berkut and some inspiration from the T-50. More to follow, I'm sure.

[Penguin]

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 3#p1000003

[Penguin]

[Bolovo]

É vero?

[Penguin]

É vero?

Essa última foto não sei.
As demais são vero sim.

[]s

[Francoorp]

Então estão quase la... e nois aqui na paìsch...