Noticias do IKL-214 da Grécia.

[P44]

NB 361 (EX PAPANIKOLIS)


With new name at her turret (instead of PAPANIKOLIS) at Kiel TKMS Yard 2009/10/31

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/mya ... id=1013617

[P44]

Greece, German Firm Settle Long-Running Sub Clash
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 13 Mar 2010 13:10


ATHENS - Greece announced March 13 that it had reached an agreement with German defense group ThyssenKrupp in a long-running dispute over the supply of four submarines.

The row began when Athens rejected the first submarine supplied by ThyssenKrupp, the Papanikolis, on the grounds that it was defective.

Greek Defense Minister Evangelos Venizelos said a resolution had been found for the deal, which has been blocked since 2006.

"We have reached a solution, which should be signed [March 18] and which protects the interests of the Greek navy as it means it will finally receive modern, functional submarines," Venizelos said in a statement released by the ministry.

Media reports in Greece suggest that under the agreement, Athens will acknowledge receipt of the Papanikolis, which will be sold to a third party, and order two further submarines from Hellenic Shipyards.

In return, the defense company will drop a compensation claim for breach of contract, reports said.

ThyssenKrupp bought Hellenic Shipyards, near Athens, from the Greek government in 2005, and the submarine deal should smooth the way for the conglomerate to shed 75 percent of its stake to the Abu Dhabi Mar group.

The Greek government, struggling with a debt crisis and facing a huge effort to restructure the economy, said March 1 the sale of the shipyard offered a chance to save the jobs of 1,400 workers.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =EUR&s=SEA

[WalterGaudério]

Greece, German Firm Settle Long-Running Sub Clash
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
Published: 13 Mar 2010 13:10


ATHENS - Greece announced March 13 that it had reached an agreement with German defense group ThyssenKrupp in a long-running dispute over the supply of four submarines.

The row began when Athens rejected the first submarine supplied by ThyssenKrupp, the Papanikolis, on the grounds that it was defective.

Greek Defense Minister Evangelos Venizelos said a resolution had been found for the deal, which has been blocked since 2006.

"We have reached a solution, which should be signed [March 18] and which protects the interests of the Greek navy as it means it will finally receive modern, functional submarines," Venizelos said in a statement released by the ministry.

Media reports in Greece suggest that under the agreement, Athens will acknowledge receipt of the Papanikolis, which will be sold to a third party, and order two further submarines from Hellenic Shipyards.

In return, the defense company will drop a compensation claim for breach of contract, reports said.

ThyssenKrupp bought Hellenic Shipyards, near Athens, from the Greek government in 2005, and the submarine deal should smooth the way for the conglomerate to shed 75 percent of its stake to the Abu Dhabi Mar group.

The Greek government, struggling with a debt crisis and facing a huge effort to restructure the economy, said March 1 the sale of the shipyard offered a chance to save the jobs of 1,400 workers.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =EUR&s=SEA

E aí? Portugal não se anima não?, poderia ser outro com "P", o Peru que continua crescendo...

[P44]

Walter,o U214 e o U209PN são projectos diferentes concebidos para marinhas diferentes, com equipamentos diferentes.

Não existe nenhuma possibilidade do ex-Papanikolis vir para Portugal, aliás vamos a ver se os 2 U209PN não serão vendidos para reduzir o défice, várias "figuras proeminentes" do partido do governo já vieram defender isso.

[WalterGaudério]

Walter,o U214 e o U209PN são projectos diferentes concebidos para marinhas diferentes, com equipamentos diferentes.

Não existe nenhuma possibilidade do ex-Papanikolis vir para Portugal, aliás vamos a ver se os 2 U209PN não serão vendidos para reduzir o défice, várias "figuras proeminentes" do partido do governo já vieram defender isso.

Porque as figuras proeminentes não advogam a redução do próprio salário e do papel higiênico que eles usam...????

[Rui Elias Maltez]

E com esta crise grega, como é que teria ficado o projecto de compra de FREMM?

Walter: como bem referiu o P44, será bom, se Portugal não vender os 2 sub's que terá. Está neste momento fora de questão a assumpção de compromisso ou contractualização de compras de equipamentos para as FA's, que levaram o corte no orçamento de cerca de 40%.

[P44]

Walter,o U214 e o U209PN são projectos diferentes concebidos para marinhas diferentes, com equipamentos diferentes.

Não existe nenhuma possibilidade do ex-Papanikolis vir para Portugal, aliás vamos a ver se os 2 U209PN não serão vendidos para reduzir o défice, várias "figuras proeminentes" do partido do governo já vieram defender isso.

Porque as figuras proeminentes não advogam a redução do próprio salário e do papel higiênico que eles usam...????

porque as figuras proeminentes não abdicam nem de um centavo para o bolso deles, além do mais o PS, sendo uma filial do PSOE Espanhol, anseia pelo dia em que a nossa defesa seja assegurada pela casa-mãe

[P44]

E com esta crise grega, como é que teria ficado o projecto de compra de FREMM?

existem noticias contraditórias...

primeiro:

Greek debt crisis 'may hinder' DCNS FREMM deal

Date Posted: 25-Feb-2010

Jane's Defence Weekly

J A C Lewis JDW Correspondent
Paris

French warship manufacturer DCNS has conceded that Greece's debt problems have dashed its hopes of landing a contract to supply the Hellenic Navy with six FREMM frigates.

"The debt crisis obviously complicates the picture," a DCNS official told Jane's on 22 February. "Talks are still going on but we now see little chance of a positive outcome in the foreseeable future."

Earlier in 2010 a senior DCNS official said that Greece was the strongest prospect for a sale worth an estimated EUR2.2 billion (USD2.9 billion), while defence figures in Paris were predicting that a memorandum of understanding on the FREMM deal could be penned when Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou visits Paris, expected by mid-2010.

However, because of revelations concerning the true extent of Greece's debt, Athens has been downgraded to being just one prospect among others in DCNS' drive to find export customers for FREMM. France has so far sold only one of the 5,000-ton frigates to Morocco, while Paris is in talks concerning FREMM with Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Algeria. The French Navy has ordered 11 of the new frigates.

Greece stated on 22 January that it had begun negotiations with France on FREMM after excluding German, Dutch and Spanish yards from its competition to acquire six frigates. In April 2008 DCNS forged a partnership with Elefsis Shipyards that called for all six of the hulls to be built in Greece, while DCNS would essentially supply the rest, including propulsion and weapon systems functionality.

Segundo:

Date Posted: 04-Mar-2010

Jane's Defence Weekly

DCNS clarifies Greek FREMM position

Gerrard Cowan JDW Europe Editor
London

French warship manufacturer DCNS has insisted that it could still sell six FREMM multimission frigates to the Hellenic Navy in a deal estimated at EUR2.2 billion (USD2.9 billion), despite Greece's current debt problems.

" Greece is still a strong prospect for DCNS," a spokesperson for the company told Jane's . "DCNS has a co-operation agreement with the local partner Elefsis Shipyards and last year opened an office in Athens. Talks are still going on today."

The comments followed a report in Jane's on 25 February in which a DCNS official said that "the debt crisis obviously complicates the picture. Talks are still going on but we now see little chance of a positive outcome in the foreseeable future".

Greece stated on 22 January that it had begun negotiations with France on a FREMM deal after excluding Dutch, German and Spanish yards from its competition to acquire six frigates. In April 2008 DCNS forged a partnership with Elefsis Shipyards that called for all six of the hulls to be built in Greece, while DCNS would essentially supply the rest, including propulsion and weapon system functionality.

Greece announced an austerity package of tax increases and budget cuts of USD4 billion on 3 March to tackle its debt crisis.

voltando aos Subs:

Date Posted: 05-Mar-2010

Jane's Defence Weekly
No end in sight for TKMS Hellenic Shipyards sale

Matthew Bell Jane's Industry Reporter
London
Key Points

*

Thyssenkrupp's proposed sale of a stake in Hellenic Shipyards is unlikely to conclude soon, sources have told Jane's
*

The Greek government recently indicated that it supported the sale of a majority holding to an Abu Dhabi company

Thyssenkrupp's proposed sale of a majority holding in Hellenic Shipyards (HYS) to the Abu Dhabi MAR (ADM) Group looks unlikely to be completed in the near future, according to sources close to the talks, despite the deal apparently receiving the blessing of the Greek government.

Although Thyssenkrupp informed Greek authorities in December 2009 that it was in favour of ADM as preferred bidder for the sale, sources told Jane's that "the whole [sale] process has just started" and imminent conclusion is unlikely.

The Greek government said that a new joint ownership scheme for the shipyards "will be led by ADM, which will hold 75.1 per cent of the share capital of Skaramanga shipyard [Hellenic Shipyards] with Thyssenkrupp Marine Systems [the unit of ThyssenKrupp in which the German conglomerate's naval interests are housed] participating with 24.9 per cent", according to a Reuters news report of 1 March.

Reports of the Greek government's consent to such an arrangement with ADM come after it emerged in October 2009 that ThyssenKrupp intended to sell an 80 per cent stake in each of its core marine systems companies - Blohm + Voss Shipyards, Blohm + Voss Repair, and Blohm + Voss Industries - to ADM.

The proposed sale was preceded by the signing of a memorandum of understanding (MoU) between Thyssenkrupp and ADM to form a 50/50 joint venture company for the construction of naval ships. The MoU was a prelude to the sale of majority stakes by ADM, ThysennKrupp said at the time.

Thyssennkrupp's interest in divesting HYS was highlighted extensively in the final months of 2009. The future of the yard - the largest in the Eastern Mediterranean - was under discussion as TKMS conceded in October that there was "no work" and "no money" following the collapse of two submarine procurement and upgrade contracts with the Greek government.

It was reported in late September that TKMS had cancelled the contracts - the construction of four Papanikolis-class (Type 214) submarines (the Archimedes programme) and the modernisation of three Type 209 boats for the Hellenic Navy (the Neptune programme) - following two years of wrangles.

TKMS maintains that payments of EUR524 million (USD783.2 million) - including EUR300 million owed to Hellenic Shipyards - remained outstanding. The Greek Ministry of Defence (MoD) previously rejected claims that it had defaulted on the contracts.

TKMS subsidiary Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) built the first Type 214 submarine, Papanikolis, at its shipyard in Kiel, Germany, and offered the boat for acceptance in 2006. It was refused by the Greek MoD, which claimed the boat did not perform to requirements. Papanikolis, however, was subsequently certified as seaworthy by the German MoD during sea trials off the coast of Norway in 2008.

The next three Type 214s were built in Greece by Hellenic Shipyards at Skaramangas between April 2007 and the end of 2008. The spokeswoman said that no decision has been made regarding the possibility of the four vessels being exported.

HYS, which had been operating for 50 years by 2008, was fully privatised in 2002 when it was taken over by HDW in consortium with Ferrostaal AG. It came under the aegis of TKMS in its present form following the 2005 merger of HDW and Thyssen Werften.

It was reported at the end of 2009 that ThysennKrupp was in discussions with more than one organisation regarding the sale of HSY.

ADM, a holding company based in Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates, builds civilian ships as well as military and commercial vessels. It is jointly owned by Al Ain International Group (70 per cent) and Privinvest (30 per cent). The company's order book exceeds EUR1 billion.

fonte:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showth ... ost1547861

[Rui Elias Maltez]

crise a quanto obrigas... vender 4 unidades logo... a quem?

Paísses chamados de "emergentes"?

[P44]

Há uns tempos falou-se de Taiwan mas não estou a ver isso acontecer (leia-se RP China)

[Rui Elias Maltez]

Em qualquer caso e como a entrega das fragatas será para mais tarde, pode acontecer que em 2013 ou 2014 a Grécia já tenha ultrapassado o mau momento que atravessa, e se assim for, como a factura só vem no momento da entrega... quem sabe.

[WalterGaudério]

Há uns tempos falou-se de Taiwan mas não estou a ver isso acontecer (leia-se RP China)

Tem o Peru tb!, que tá crescendo...

[P44]

xiiiiiiiiiiiii...os chilenos iriam ter um enfarte

[Rui Elias Maltez]

O Perú?????

E porque não o Brasil, mau grado os contratos já assinados ou compromisso que possam haver?

quer dizer, a gente até já está a arranjar comprador por coisas que ainda nem estarão à venda...

[P44]

Rui,

o Brasil já tem acordo assinado com a França para um sub nuclear e 6 SSKs (salvo erro) baseados no Scorpene.

A Alemanha tentou enganar o Brasil e ficou muito mal vista, o Brasil tão cedo não quer nada deles