PAK FA - VOOU!!!

[prp]

Não

[malmeida]

Senhores, uma dúvida...
Tivemos recentemente duas concorrências para aeronaves de 5ª geração nos EUA:
YF-22 x YF-23
X-32 x X-35
No caso dos perdedores (YF-23 e X-32), os conceitos/dados/blue prints/protótipos... etc... poderiam ser vendidos pelas empresas que os produziram para outros países, pagando o referido valor pela transferência do projeto, ou parte dele?

Eu acho difícil, hein! É melhor eles ficarem no prejuízo e usarem parte da "experiência" adquirida para desenvolverem outros projetos do que repassar a um possível competidor em um outro projeto futuro.

MAlmeida

[soultrain]

Não,

Esses projectos foram pagos pelo Estado, a sua propriedade, não é das empresas que os desenvolveram.

[[]]'s

[Luís Henrique]

Não,

Esses projectos foram pagos pelo Estado, a sua propriedade, não é das empresas que os desenvolveram.

[[]]'s

Exatamente. Mesmo que quisessem são PROIBIDOS de faze-lo.

[P44]

do nosso conhecido planeman



com análise á Rússia actual/ comparação com URSS
http://planeman-bluffersguide.blogspot. ... ussia.html

[Luís Henrique]

http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/fightersSF04.htm

para os que criticam o painel azul-bebé

The teal blue colour was found to be the least psychologically tiring colour for the pilot a long time ago. That is why all Soviet/Russian cockpits have that colour.

do mp.net

‘India, Russia to ink pact on fifth generation fighter aircraft’

India and Russia are expected to sign the first of a series of agreements for the development of fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) to meet futuristic requirements of the Indian Air Force during Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s visit to New Delhi later this week.
“We expect to ink the agreement for the development of FGFA design and its technical parameters after March 10,” sources in the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) said.
The comments come ahead of Mr. Putin’s two-day visit to New Delhi beginning on Thursday.
The twin-stick two seater version of the futuristic multi-role fighter jet for the IAF would be developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and ‘Sukhoi’ Corporation, which is part of the Russian integrated aircraft manufacturer UAC on the parity basis.
“India would be the only partner in the FGFA project and the two sides have agreed to share the proceeds from the sale of the fighters to third countries keeping in view their intellectual property rights,” the sources said.
The design of the FGFA for IAF would be based on Sukhoi’s T-50 PAK FA technology demonstrator, which after making its maiden flight on January 29 is beginning a series of trials.
According to local media reports, the cost of the project would be around USD 8-10 billion and would be shared by India and Russia on parity basis.
The aircraft would carry a price tag of USD 85-100 million and would be available in the global market after India and Russia meet their initial requirements.

PAK FA with 'Brahmos'

The PAK FA chief designer Alexander Davydenko said, that during development work, the fight between T-50 and F-22 was modeled with good outcome for T-50. He also informed that the new avionics, weapon systems are already exist but will appeared latter since the 1st prototype is not ready for actually weapon carrying. The 2015 as the end term for starting serial supply was confirmed too.
Most important he said, T-50 will be built together with India 'in principle 50 and 50%', and can be equipped with 'Brahmos' missiles. It's first official confirmation about possibility of 'Brahmos' installation on PAK FA/FGFA fighter. However, it's not clear whether these missiles would be installed on the internal or external bays. Anyway, it can be 1-2 missiles only due to heavy weight of 'Brahmos' supersonic missile.

Levar o Brahmos ja era esperado.
Sobre internamente ou externamente, ainda não se sabe.
Porém.

O Brahmos versão maritima possui 8,4m de comprimento.
Segundo a última edição Revista Asas, o Pak possui 2 baias internas medindo 4,60 - 4,70 de comprimento CADA uma e com largura de 1,00 a 1,10 m.

A versão aérea do Brahmos será mais leve e MENOR, mais curta com um estágio a menos. resta saber QUANTO menor.
não creio que seja metade do tamanho. Portanto, só seria possível levar um Brahmos internamente se as duas baias não possuirem uma divisão. Assim, o míssil seria acomodado ocupando o espaço das DUAS baias.

Acho muito difícil isto ocorrer. Creio que seria mais sensato o emprego de mísseis de menor porte nas baias internas como o Kh-35 ANTINAVIO e o Brahmos carregado EXTERNAMENTE.
Creio que o Pak-Fa por possuir as baias justamente no centro da fuselagem, carregaria os Brahmos na junção das asas. Desta forma seria possível levar 2 mísseis Brahmos em um Pak Fa.

Assim, uma possivel configuração antinavio poderia contar com 2 Brahmos carregados externamente que seriam lançados bem de LONGE. Em seguida o Pak ficaria totalmente furtivo, carregando INTERNAMENTE mais 4 misseis antinavio KH-35 e 2 misseis WVR para autodefesa.

[P44]

em relação ao tamanho do Brahmos




T-50 PAK-FA Brahmos comparision.



It doesn't appear that the BRAHMOS will fit in the weapons bay in the current configuration.How big is the 400Km Novator ALCM?So again we come back to that same old story. India needs to have a suitable ALCM version of the Nirbhay or the Brahmos to equip this beauty. These missiles can't be constrained by MTCR ranges if developed inhouse.




http://thietre-blogdothietre.blogspot.c ... ision.html

[P44]

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20100311/158159986.html

India, Russia agree details of joint 5G-fighter project

India and Russia have agreed in general on shared responsibility for the joint development of the fifth-generation fighter, the chairman of the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) said. Moscow and New Delhi are expected to sign a contract on the joint development of the new fighter in the near future, focusing on the design concept and technical requirements put forward by India.

"Currently, broad areas of work sharing have been identified. Composite materials, avionics, etc. could be some of the focus areas of HAL," Ashok Nayak said in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.
Nayak did not specify the cost of the project but said it would be split evenly between India and Russia.
The sides agreed to develop both a single-seat and a two-seat versions of the aircraft by 2016, focusing on the single-seat version in the initial stages of development.
"Both versions will be put in service with the Indian Air Force," Nayak said.
The HAL chairman said the Indian side had already specified technical requirements for the single-seat version and passed them on to Russian manufacturers.
"The general agreement is that we work on both sides - the Russians and the Indians will cooperate on both versions of the aircraft," he said.
The new aircraft will be most likely based on Russia's T-50 prototype fifth-generation fighter, which has already made two test flights and is expected to join the Russian Air Force in 2015.
Russia has been developing its fifth-generation fighter since the 1990s. The current prototype, known as the T-50, was designed by the Sukhoi design bureau and built at a plant in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, in Russia's Far East.
Russian officials have already hailed the fighter as "a unique warplane" that combines the capabilities of an air superiority fighter and attack aircraft.
NEW DELHI, March 11 (RIA Novosti)

[Luís Henrique]

Pelos vistos este novo caça é um pouco mais pequeno que o SU-27.

Segundo a revista asas, a projeção é que o Pak Fa possua 19,80 m de comprimento e 14,00 m de envergadura.
Vazio + tanque pela METADE deve pesar cerca de 21 - 22T e o peso máximo deve ser de cerca de 33-34T.
Levando em conta que deve possuir cerca de 10T de combusstivel interno, podemos supor que o peso vazio do caça deve ser de 16 a 17T.

Apenas como comparativo o F-22 possui 18,90m de comprimento. Portanto o Pak Fa é cerca de 90 cm maior.
O Raptor possui 13,56 de envergadura. O Pak fica 44 cm maior nesse quesito.
O Raptor leva 8.200 kg de combustivel interno.
O Raptor pesa vazio 19.700 kg.
Possui empuxo máximo de 32.000 kg/F

O Pak devido ao tamanho deve levar um pouco mais de combustivel.
Parece ser um pouco mais leve.
E, por enquanto, possui cerca de 30.000 kg/F de empuxo.
Poderiam instalar a AL-31F-M3 com 15.500 kg/F de empuxo, o que deixaria o Pak com 31.000 kg/F.
Preferiram optar pelo motor da Saturn, a AL-41F1 conhecida como 117 que possui 15.000 kg/F de empuxo cada. Sendo que é uma versão mais avançada que a AL-41F1S usada no Su-35BM, conhecida como 117S e que possui 14.480 kg/F de empuxo.
Este motor esta previsto para ser usado nos protótipos e na primeira série de produção. Nas próximas séries, deverá ser desenvolvido um motor totalmente novo, mais leve, com menor número de componentes, e de operação mais barata que deverá possuir potência SUPERIOR a 16.000 kg/f.

Também podemos prever que nestas duas baias internas o Pak-Fa poderia levar os seguintes armamentos:

8 - 10 RVV-AE-PD (R-77M ramjet) - possui cerca de 20cm de diâmetro e 3,6 a 3,7 m de comprimento.
4 - 6 R-37 (atualmente o R-33M possui cerca de 38cm de diâmetro e 4,15m de comprimento)
4 KH-35 antinavio

Além duas baias menores que devem acomodar no mínimo 1 missil ar-ar WVR cada.

[P44]

Russia to make 1,000 stealth jets, eyes India deal
Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:41pm GMT

By Gleb Bryanski

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - Russia will build more than 1,000 stealth fighter jets within four decades, including at least 200 for its traditional weapons buyer India, the head of plane maker Sukhoi said on Friday.

Sukhoi test-flew its long-delayed fifth-generation fighter at the end of January, and Moscow said it would be able to compete with its U.S. F-22 Raptor rival built more than a decade ago.

Sukhoi said last week it hoped the fighter, codenamed T-50, would be ready for use in 2015.

"If you talk about warplanes of this type, there is definitely a market for it if we produce more than 1,000 jets," Sukhoi director Mikhail Pogosyan told reporters on the sidelines of Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's visit to India.

"We have all grounds to believe that there will not be tough competition on the world market," he said.

He said Russia would produce more than 1,000 of the planes within 35 to 40 years.

After the test flight, Putin said Russia had plenty of work to do on the plane.

Analysts say Russia's plans for a joint venture with India to produce the stealth fighters will likely be watched with unease by India's uneasy neighbour Pakistan and regional rival China.

Pogosyan said an agreement on joint output of the jet with India was still in the works and did not say when a deal might be signed.

"I believe that more than 200 planes will be delivered (to India)," Pogosyan said.

"I think (Russia's) defence ministry will buy no less than this amount," he said. About 600 of the planes would be sold elsewhere, he said.

Analysts say several nations, including Libya and Vietnam, have already expressed interest in the fifth-generation fighter.

"Apart from America, the only other fifth-generation project is Russia's, while the Europeans have given up such plans," Pogosyan said.

"Probably the Chinese will try and promote such a product, but I think they face an immense amount of work to make their product competitive," he said.

(Reporting by Gleb Bryanski; Writing by Dmitry Solovyov; Editing by Paul Tait)

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE62 ... nnel=11700

[soultrain]

By Alexey Komarov
Moscow

Sukhoi intends to add three more T-50 development aircraft to the test program within the next 12 months, with further details of Russia’s next-generation fighter leaking out from a high-level gathering here.

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin held a cabinet meeting last week on developing the aerospace and defense industry at Sukhoi’s Moscow headquarters. Putin was also shown the T-50-0 static test rig airframe along with a cockpit simulator for Russia’s fifth-generation fighter.

Putin and Sukhoi’s chief, Mikhail Pogosyan, maintain that the T-50 should be ready to enter service with the Russian air force during 2015, to meet its PAK FA fighter requirement. Putin says, however, that “before the jet goes into serial production, it should complete more than 2,000 test flights.”

Given what is already an highly demanding schedule, Pogosyan is quoted in the Russian press as saying: “By the end of 2010 or in early 2011, we must add three more prototypes to the test-flight program.”

Sukhoi executives suggest the second prototype will likely enter testing this year, while the third and fourth prototypes will appear in 2011. The first two will not be fitted with radar or weapon control systems, and will be used primarily for flight performances and major systems evaluations.

Sukhoi designers are trying to compress the T-50 development through the extensive use of specialized system-integration test benches. The development of previous aircraft types was supported with the use of “iron bird” rigs for complex flight control system checks and an “electronic bird” for the avionics package testing, coupled with stationary engineering simulators used for “man-machine” interface development.

For the T-50, in addition to these tools, Sukhoi seems to have built an additional prototype not intended for flights—the so-called T-50-KNS. This airframe is fitted with operational systems, equipment and engines.

Sukhoi’s production facility in Komsomolsk has used the T-50-KNS for checking the use of new manufacturing technologies, while designers were able to examine all wiring, ducting, equipment and engine installation within the actual dimensions of the aircraft. The T-50-KNS and other test-bench checks ensured the initial flights of the T-50-1 prototype. Pogosyan says a 24-deg. angle of attack was reached on the T-50-1 after only three flights.

The company’s T-50 chief designer, Alexander Davidenko, says almost 70% of the outer surface— 25% of the aircraft’s empty weight—consists of composites . Introduction of the materials allowed the number of structural parts to be cut four-fold compared with the Su-27 Flanker.

As for the cockpit, Davidenko notes that the aircraft’s avionics use smart digital systems to reduce pilot workload in terms of flying and combat operations.

The T-50’s digital flight control system is around 30% lighter than the Su-27’s and can reconfigure in case of failure or combat damage, says Pogosyan.

The T-50 will be tested and enter air force service, with the engine being used for the “first phase of development.” The engine is already installed in the prototype, says Pogosyan. “This is a completely new engine,” he contends, “developed especially for this aircraft. It has a modern design, which is able to ensure the T-50’s long-term operation.” A completely new powerplant could be developed in the next 10-12 years, he adds.

In April, the T-50 flight-test program likely will shift to the Gromov Flight Test Research Institute in Zhukovsky, near Moscow, according to company executives.

The T-50 development is being viewed by the government as a confirmation of the industry’s ability to meet the military’s future equipment needs and to revamp its present inventory.

In 2008, Moscow began to increase procurement of combat aircraft and systems, in an attempt to roll back more than a decade of neglect and stagnation. Contracts to supply the air force with 130 combat aircraft were signed in 2008 and 2009. In 2010, 27 aircraft, more than 50 helicopters and five S-400 missile system divisions will be purchased for the army.

The nation’s armament program calls for the delivery of more than 1,500 aircraft and helicopters and about 200 air defense systems through 2020. At least 80% of the air force procurement and 75% of the air defense systems will be new hardware.

Discussing industry priorities, Putin stresses that the sector had received substantial support from the government and should now concentrate on efficiency. It must fulfill its obligations in terms of deliveries and weapon-cost parameters.

Putin also reinforced Russian ambitions to develop a next-generation strategic strike aircraft—the PAK DA—as well as a next-generation surface-to-air missile system.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... 2%20Months

[Skyway]

Me tirem uma dúvida...a "capacidade de carga" do Pak é essa?

[Carlos Mathias]

Sim, é o que parece.

[zela]

Citando um usuário artjomh,do MP NET:

So, I guess it's official: there will be 8 internal missiles, 6 in the centerline weapons bays and 2 in the side bays.

Information according to the head of aerodynamic testing of TsAGI (Central Aero-Hydrodynamical Institute), where PAK-FA static model is currently undergoing wind turbine tests.

Só não consegui achar a fonte que ele citou.

[P44]