MMRCA - FX Indiano

[Immortal Horgh]

Eu acho que o Rafale ganha na Índia.

Para mim, o caça que ganhar aqui, ganhará lá.



[ ]s

[gaitero]

Eu acho que o Rafale ganha na Índia.

Para mim, o caça que ganhar aqui, ganhará lá.



[ ]s

Eu apostaria nisso tambem.

[Luís Henrique]

Se ganhar na Índia, é o meu favorito aqui. Meus medos quanto ao Rafale são dois, um muito próximo do outro:
1. Custo alto de aquisição e operação;
2. Poucas unidades no mercado;

Wolf, o Mi-17 sairia BEM MAIS BARATO que o EC-725 francês.

Acho que não preciso dizer mais nada.

Em termos de capacidade militar o Rafale é brilhante. Para mim, a única proposta melhor neste quesito era a russa que oferecia o Su-35BM e o Pak-Fa.

[Penguin]

Detalhes do RFP/RFI MMRCA indiano (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/mir ... 9/#changes):

India’s defense procurement process is definitely a game for the patient, and this was no exception. The Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) RFP caps a process that began in 2001, when the IAF sent out its request for information (RFI) for 126 jets. After delays lasting almost 2 years beyond the planned December 2005 issue date, India’s Ministry of Defence finally announced a formal Request for Proposal on Aug 28/07.

The RFP announcement estimated the program at 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA), at a cost of Rs. 42,000 crores (about $10.24 billion as of the RFP date, or about $81.3 million per fighter). The 211-page document includes clauses for initial purchase, transfer of technology, licensed production, and life-time maintenance support for the aircraft. Under the terms of purchase, the first 18 aircraft will come in a ‘fly away’ condition, while the remaining 108 will be manufactured under Transfer of Technology. Some reports add an option for an additional 64 aircraft on the same terms, bringing the total to 190 aircraft; DID is attempting to confirm this.

The vendors now have 6 months to submit their proposals. Selection will involve an exhaustive evaluation process as detailed in the Defence Procurement Procedures (DPP) 2006. First, submitted proposals will be technically evaluated by a professional team to check for compliance with IAF’s operational requirements and other RFP conditions. Extensive field trials would be carried out to evaluate the performance. Finally, the commercial proposal of the vendors, short-listed after technical and field evaluations, would be examined and compared. The defence ministry’s Contract Negotiation Committee (CNC) would then hold discussions with the vendors before identifying the manufacturer whose bid is the best, and submit its report to the defence minister, who would forward it to the finance minister. After the file returns to the defence ministry, it goes for final approval to the cabinet committee on security (CCS).

The entire selection process is likely to take at least 2 1/2 years, followed by lengthy price negotiations, and probably including delays along the way. Most observers believe that delivery of any aircraft before 2013 is unlikely.

The vendor who finally wins the competition would also be required to undertake 50% offset obligations in India, a boost from the usual 30% under India’s recently revised procurement rules for purchases over $70 million. India is looking for a large boost to its aerospace and defense electronics industries from this effort, and the RFP release adds that “Foreign vendors would be provided great flexibility in effecting tie up with Indian partners for this purpose.” It also says that:

“The aircraft are likely to be in service for over 40 years. Great care has been taken to ensure that only determinable factors, which do not lend themselves to any subjectivity, are included in the commercial selection model. The selection would be transparent and fair….

It may be recalled that the Defence Minister Shri A K Antony while chairing the Defence Acquisition Council Meeting on June 29, 2007 had outlined three guiding principles for this procurement scheme.

First, the operational requirements of IAF should be fully met. Second, the selection process should be competitive, fair and transparent, so that best value for money is realized. Lastly, Indian defence industries should get an opportunity to grow to global scales.”

These days, even American competitions are increasingly finding themselves beset by quasi-legal challenges of evaluation methods, and even of their chosen criteria. Witness the hold-ups created for the CSAR-X helicopter competition, Joint Cargo Aircraft, ITES-2 I.T. contract, et. al. Indian competitions have featured these sorts of post-contract obstacles even more consistently, with the addition of bureaucratic delays and corruption charges thrown into the mix. Time will tell if the objectives of the MoD’s RFP are met, or if a process of waiting almost 6 years for an RFP, and then years more for a winner, is only the beginning of the process.

Even as India’s existing fighter fleet continues to wear out, and China and Pakistan’s fleets continue to grow.

------------------------------------

April 16/09: Indian media report that Dassault’s Rafale has been disqualified from India’s MMRCA competition. Exact reasons were not specified, beyond vague reports that “it did not meet the General Staff Quality Requirements.”

Dassault is measured in its public replies, stating only that Rafale International has not been formally made aware of any such decision. If these reports are true, however, Dassault’s move to strangle its Swedish competitor by denying it Thales’ radar may have ended up costing Thales any chance of an order from India.

Disqualification at this technical trials stage means that the Rafale would not proceed to the coming summer and winter trials, which will be followed by the creation of a shortlist, and then more negotiations. Indan sources still see at least 2 more years before an actual purchase contract is inked. Agence France Presse | Calcutta Telegraph | The Hindu | Times of India | Reuters | Thaindian News | StrategyPage, include order history for Rafales to date.

March 10/09: Aviation Week’s “AESA Radars Are A Highlight of Aero-India” offers a look at various contenders’ radar choices.

America has an AESA technology lead, so its offerings are the most stable and mature. The F-16IN had the most choices. Ratheon’s RACR and Northrop Grumman’s SABR are both designed as drop-in AESA radars for the F-16, but Lockheed Martin chose Northrop Grumman’s AN/APG-80, which is already installed in the UAE’s F-16E/F Block 60s and has a 100% in-service record over 4 years. The other American contender, Boeing’s F/A-18 E/F Block 2, will use its standard AN/APG-79 AESA radar.

Dassault’s Rafale will use Thales’ new RBE2, but its acquisition of a large shareholding in Thales means Saab’s JAS-39NG will not use an RBE2 front end as planned. Saab has a number of alternative AESA options, from Raytheon’s RACR to an enlarged version of Selex Galileo’s Vixen, but the uncertainty raises its risk profile in a number of ways.

Eurofighter reportedly had the most interesting but least mature proposals, involving AESA arrays built into other areas of the plane. Eurofighter GmbH is working on the CAESAR AESA radar, but hat is in early development. Accordingly, it touts its existing mechanically-scanned Selex Galileo ECR-90 Captor over in-service AESA radars. EADS Military Air Systems SVP of engineering Peter Gutsmiedl was reportedly talking about the option of adding small AESA side arrays, an azimuth gimbal, or even a canted AESA “swashplate” fitted to a rotating mount, inside a canted antenna. These embedded radar options would allow the benefits of AESA, but with a much wider scan radius that could radically change the engagement cone for radar-guided air-air missiles. If they are built, that is, and successfully tested.

[Sintra]

E o desmentido oficial... A imprensa Indiana é mesmo uma "magabilha"...

DATE:20/04/09
SOURCE:Flight International
Indian Air Force says Rafale still in fighter competition By Siva Govindasamy

The Indian Air Force has denied reports that the Dassault Rafale has been eliminated from the country’s medium multi-role combat aircraft competition.

“We have not ruled anyone out yet in the MMRCA competition,” says an IAF spokesman, who confirmed that the service is responsible for evaluating the contenders. “All of the tests have not been completed. The technical evaluations are only just over and we are scheduled to begin the flight tests next month. Everyone is still in the competition.”

Last week, several Indian newspapers reported that the Rafale was eliminated after failing the technical evaluation. When contacted, Dassault said that it is waiting for information from the French embassy in India as negotiations are conducted on a government-to-government basis. The embassy had no comment.

The aircraft was not brought to the Aero India 2009 show in Bangalore in February, leading to speculation that it was in danger of being eliminated from the competition. A senior French official, however, defended the no-show at the time saying that the country’s aircraft were required for NATO operations in Afghanistan.



Apart from the Rafale (above), the other five contenders for the $10-12 billion contract are the Boeing F/A-18E/F, Eurofighter Typhoon, Lockheed Martin F-16, RSK MiG-35, and Saab Gripen. India is scheduled to begin hot weather trials in May, and the aircraft will be tested in cold weather and humid conditions later in the year.

This is not the first time that the Indian media have reported that an aircraft has been eliminated from this closely watched competition. Early this year, it was reported that the Gripen had been knocked out but this was later proven untrue.

India is seeking 126 aircraft in the competition, of which 18 will be bought in fly-away condition and 108 license produced by Hindustan Aeronautics in the country. There is also an option for another 64 aircraft. The fighter chosen will replace the IAF’s RSK MiG-21s.

[AlbertoRJ]

Acho que os indianos não desclassificarão um avião por vez. Ou vão reduzir a lista (eliminando mais de um, é claro), como fez a FAB, ou vão anunciar apenas o vencedor.
Penso que é isso que aconteceria em uma concorrência séria.

[]'s

[tykuna]

Para mim, o caça que ganhar aqui, ganhará lá.



[ ]s

Eu apostaria nisso tambem.

Pode soar igual, mas eu diria o contrário. O que ganhar "lá", irá levar aqui.

[Vinicius Pimenta]

Eu já acho que não tem nada a ver. A decisão brasileira acontece no final do ano, a indiana só no ano que vem.

[Penguin]

Como anda o processo indiano:

National
All set for flight evaluation of multirole combat aircraft

Ravi Sharma
Defence Ministry sends letters to six aviation firms

It’s for IAF to speedily complete evaluation and indicate its choice

Aircraft to be tested in hot weather and at high altitude

BANGALORE: The Indian Air Force’s bid to acquire 126 medium multirole combat aircraft has got a much-needed push.

The Defence Ministry has issued “the letters of invitation for flight evaluation trials” to six companies that are vying for the $10-$12-billion contract.

They are the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company, which pitches in with Eurofighter Typhoon, America’s Lockheed Martin (F-16 Falcon) and Boeing Integrated Defence System (F/A-18F Super Hornet), Russia’s Mikoyan (MiG-35), Sweden’s Gripen (JAS-39) and France’s Dassault (Rafale).

The ball is now in the IAF’s court “to speedily complete the flight evaluation and indicate its choice,” say Ministry officials.

Between July and March next, the IAF will have to undertake the trials, initially in India to test the performance of the aircraft under local conditions and then in the countries of their origin. Armament trials will be conducted in the country of origin as bringing weapons to India could be problematic.

For the evaluation trials, the IAF is likely to form two teams composed of test pilots, flight test engineers and maintenance crew, drawn primarily from the Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment and, to a lesser extent, from fighter squadrons. The teams are also likely to include officials of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (to look into technology transfer and industrial partnership) and the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification.

Besides enabling the IAF test pilots to try out the aircraft, the trials will allow flight and ground test crew to know about the maintenance and overhaul facilities required.

Once the IAF makes its evaluation, some time in 2010, commercial negotiations could begin. The terms indicate that the first aircraft will have to be delayed 48 months after a contract is signed.
Time-consuming, expensive

The time-consuming and expensive process — it could cost each competitor $5 million — will test each aircraft whether it can measure up to the performance indicators set forth in flight manuals in Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh (under normal conditions, in hot weather and at a high altitude).

Each competitor is sending two aircraft. Informed sources have indicated that Rafale will be one of the first to be evaluated. It will fly into Bangalore in the first week of September.

Officials of the companies told The Hindu that they had initiated a survey of the locations, where their aircraft would be tested.

[caixeiro]

IAF upgrade: trials for multi-role combat aircraft in Aug
Huma Siddiqui
Posted: 2009-06-29 23:47:45+05:30 IST
Updated: Jun 29, 2009 at 2347 hrs IST



Lockheed for deals with India worth $15 bnFresh test of BrahMos within a month: AntonyNew year bonanza for armed forcesIndian Air Force lacks equipment, admits Antony

New Delhi: Summer trials for 126 medium-range, multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF) are set to kick off in August, with the government issuing the letter of invite to six contenders.

The process of inviting the suppliers will be completed in the first week of July. The trials will begin the following month and continue till April 2010.

The six companies in contention for the $10-billion deal are European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS), which has offered the Eurofighter Typhoon; American firms Lockheed Martin (F-16 Falcon/Block 52) and Boeing Integrated Defence System (F/A-18F Super Hornet); Russian Aircraft Corp's MiG-35; Swedish Saab's Gripen (JAS-39) and French major, Dassault's Rafale. The contenders have reportedly agreed to participate in the field trials on a no-cost, no-commitment basis. This means that contenders would bring their aircraft and crew, with no cost to the government.

Industry sources said the trials would take place in three phases. "The first phase is usually a familiarisation phase, where the contenders would be staying at a training base. The second phase would initially be conducted in the country under local conditions and subsequently in the country of origin for weapons," explained sources.

However, since they are starting late, only four of the six firms would be able to complete the summer trials by October and the rest would conduct their summer trials in March-April next year, said sources. The trials would be conducted in both summer and winter in varying climactic and altitude conditions in the cold Ladakh region of north India, the desert region of Rajasthan and hot and humid south India.

The evaluation trials would be conducted by various teams composed of test pilots, engineers and maintenance crew, which will be drawn primarily from the Aircraft Systems and Testing Establishment (ASTE).

State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) would also be involved to look at issues concerning technology transfer and industrial partnership, besides the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification.

While commercial negotiations are expected to begin once the IAF completes its evaluation sometime in 2010, sources hoped the trials would not be delayed further, as it would not only make the existing technology outdated, but also push up the cost of the machines.

Once the trials and commercial bids are over, two to three top contenders would be shortlisted. "The list is based on three criteria — technical and field trial requirements, cost of the aircraft and country's strategic requirement,"...

New Delhi: explained sources. Under the present terms and conditions, the first aircraft deliveries will commence only four years after a contract is signed.

The MMRCA deal is part of the modernisation plan in which India would be spending about $30 billion in the next five years to replace or upgrade obsolete weaponry and fleet....

[Strike7]

Eu já acho que não tem nada a ver. A decisão brasileira acontece no final do ano, a indiana só no ano que vem.

Isto considerando que a India tenha um vencedor....

[Junker]

Os cockpits do MMRCA, pelo Shiv Aroor:

Gripen


Rafale


F-18


F-16


MiG 35


Typhoon


http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/07/mm ... kpits.html

[soultrain]

France's Dassault targets Lockheed in combat aircraft deal
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi July 16, 2009, 0:30 IST

The gloves are off in the competition to sell India 126 Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated Rs 50,000 crore. Two days after Business Standard reported on the sudden replacement of Lockheed Martin India´s CEO, Lockheed´s French rival, Dassault Aviation - whose Rafale fighter is pitched against Lockheed Martin´s F-16 IN in the MMRCA tender - is contemplating asking the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) to disqualify Lockheed Martin from the tender. The reason: sources in Dassault allege that Lockheed Martin has illegally obtained access to classified documents relating to the competition.

Approached for details of Dassault´s decision, the company´s Indian representative, Pusina Rao, told Business Standard over the telephone from Paris, "Dassault executives are in discussions and will soon reach a final decision on what action it will initiate against Lockheed Martin. In any case, the French government will have the final word, since there are political repercussions involved."

Rao declined to comment on how long it would take for Paris to approach the Indian MoD for action against Lockheed Martin.

Sources close to the MMRCA contract point out that tension has been growing between Dassault and Lockheed Martin since the end of 2008, when the Indian media reported that Dassault had been eliminated from the MMRCA contract because it had not fulfilled some of the technical requirements spelt out in the Indian tender. Weeks after the report - and apparently after French President Nikolas Sarkozy spoke to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh over the phone - it was announced that Dassault was very much in contention.

[soultrain]

India's Ammo Storage Problem

India ammo.jpg
In 1999 the Indian government had not sanctioned money for sheds in one of the depots, so the ammunition was lying in the open, grassy fields. Instead of paying someone to cut the grass, the practice was that the grass was sold at an auctioned price. As is common, the local farmer/contractors form a cartel to keep the bid amounts low and work out among themselves how to share the money saved.

The local audit officer had placed an objection on the depot for selling the grass in the previous auction at a low contract price. So when the tender bids for the next sale of grass were opened, the bids were even lower. So the Commander of the depot ordered re-tendering to avoid further objections by the local audit officer who can get very petty. In the meantime the grass had grown quite high and was dried up by the sun. It subsequently caught fire and hundreds of crores worth of ammunition was lost. The Commander felt that this was acceptable to auditor rather than the loss of a few thousand rupees by way of contract negotiations with local farmers.

In a similar incident in 2007 , two Army personnel died and the Police had to evacuate villagers within a 30km radius when an ammunition dump caught fire.

Think the government would have learnt their lesson then? Apparently not. The Defense Minister admitted in front of the parliament today that about 85,000 MT of ammunition was still lying in the open or in temporary shelters.

(Photo - From Bob Fagelson's collection, the ammo dump at Kanchrapara, circa 1946)

-- Manu Sood, editor, 8ak - Indian Defence News

[gaitero]

A Sukhoi continua a trabalhar no primeiro protótipo do primeiro caça russo de 5ª geração, o “PAK-FA”. O secretismo quanto à data de realização do primeiro voo do aparelho – inicialmente anunciado para 2009 – parece indicar que existem atrasos significativos, retardando esse voo para, pelo menos, o início de 2010. A Sukhoi está também estrategicamente focada no marketing do seu avião comercial “Superjet 100“, um concorrente direto numa gama de mercado dominado pela brasileira Embraer e pela canadiana Bombardier, o que pode explicar o perfil muito discreto do desenvolvimento do “PAK-FA”, parcialmente…

O responsável da Sukhoi confirmou que a empresa russa continua a trabalhar no protótipo e os primeiros testes. Admitiu também que a Sukhoi iria manter um perfil mediático muito discreto até à realização dos primeiros testes com o protótipo acrescentando nada à (aparentemente) apressada declaração do ministro da energia russo Viktor Khristenko que disse recentemente que “os testes de voo do avião estão calendarizados para o começo de 2009“. Bem, as reservas agora expressas pelo Sukhoi indicam que se tratou de otimismo excessivo…

Pogosyan exprimiu confiança de que a MiG, sua concorrente russa, tem boas condições para vencer o atual concurso indiano com o seu MiG-35. O avião já terminou os testes na força aérea indiana e os russos estão otimistas num negócio que poderá ditar a morte ou a vida para a MiG Avia, cuja única venda a curto prazo é a de seis MiG-29K para a Malásia, que serão entregues em finais de 2009.

A força aérea indiana anunciou a sua intenção de duplicar a sua frota de aviões Sukhoi SU-30 para o impressionante número de 230 aparelhos. Esta duplicação deverá ocorrer até 2015 e tornará a União Indiana no maior operador mundial daquele que é considerado pelo melhor caça de 4,5ª geração do mundo.

Atualmente, a Índia tem em inventário 98 SU-30, entre 40 fabricados na Rússia em 1996 e o resto fabricado localmente, sob licença num contrato que ultrapassou os 1,46 biliões de dólares. Nem todos estão contudo no padrão SU-30MKI, mais avançado que o SU-30, e esse trabalho está a ser gradualmente conduzido pela empresa aeronáutica indiana HAL. Deverá ser também esta empresa a produzir os novos SU-30, contudo, a empresa indiana tem tido vários problemas com a produção licenciada de aparelhos britânicos (Hawk) e russos (MiG e Sukhoi) evidenciado uma clara falta de capacidade de produção para estas necessidades. Isso poderá levar o Governo indiano a encontrar alternativas à HAL, nomeadamente procurando que a Sukhoi instale localmente uma unidade de produção…

A duplicação dos SU-30 permitiria abandonar todo o obsoleto (e perigoso) inventário de origem russa ainda operacional na Força Aérea Indiana, o qual mesmo hoje é de ainda 250 MiG-21s. A maioria destes aparelhos deveriam ser substituídos pelo HAL Tejas mas este programa tem conhecido dificuldades e atrasos uns atrás dos outros… Aliás, as suspeitas de que a HAL não será capaz de duplicar a produção de SU-30 vêm em parte daqui.