Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

Assuntos em discussão: Marinha do Brasil e marinhas estrangeiras, forças de superfície e submarinas, aviação naval e tecnologia naval.

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Skyway
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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#61 Mensagem por Skyway » Qua Nov 12, 2008 1:09 pm

Tava pensando...será que um submarinista russo, acostumado com o sistema manual, acendeu um cigarro pensando que não teria problema já que se uma luz de aviso disparasse na central, alguem iria ver o que era e seria só um cigarro.

Sei lá, mas caí nessa questão conhecendo bem aquela velha história de que sempre se dá um jeitinho, e se o jeitinho for algo comum e difundido... :?

Sei que no Brasil isso não é comum, esse jeitinho quanto a normas de segurança, mas lá eu não tenho idéia.




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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#62 Mensagem por P44 » Qua Nov 12, 2008 1:12 pm

é uma boa possibilidade, ou membro da marinha ou do ESTALEIRO, que provavelmente não estaria a par da situação(?)...e o que já consegui saber em vários sites é que esse sistema é MANUAL em todos os subs russos.

A hipótese de alguém ter acendido um cigarro já foi bastante mencionada.




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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#63 Mensagem por Rui Elias Maltez » Qui Nov 13, 2008 9:36 am

Morte de 20 pessoas
Membro da tripulação esteve na origem do acidente com o submarino russo “Nerpa”

13.11.2008 - 10h44 AFP / http://ultimahora.publico.clix.pt/noticia.asp

Um membro da tripulação accionou o sistema de extinção de incêndios a bordo do submarino nuclear russo “Nerpa”, provocando no sábado a morte de 20 pessoas, anunciou hoje a comissão de inquérito da Procuradoria-Geral russa, citada por agências russas.

“O inquérito concluiu que um membro da tripulação, um marinheiro, accionou o sistema de extinção de incêndios no submarino, sem autorização e sem nenhuma razão”, declarou Vladimir Markin, porta-voz da comissão de inquérito, citado pela agência Ria-Novosti. Segundo as autoridades, não houve nenhum incêndio a bordo.

“Esse marinheiro já assumiu a sua culpa”, acrescentou.

As mortes, quando o “Nerpa” estava em exercícios ao largo do mar do Japão, deveram-se à inalação de gás fréon, substância usada para neutralizar focos de fogo e libertado automaticamente quando accionado o sistema anti-incêndio do submarino.

Foi aberta uma investigação criminal por “violação das regras de navegação originando por imprudência a morte de uma pessoa ou outras consequências graves”. Esta investigação ainda decorre.

Mas hoje, um oficial do submarino pôs em causa esta versão oficial. "Não acreditamos que ele tenha accionado, intencionalmente ou acidentalmente, o sistema anti-incêndios. Trabalho com ele há muito tempo, desde 2003. Ele não é um novato, é um especialista competente", declarou um oficial à agência Interfax em anonimato. "Não acreditamos que ele seja culpado e consideramos que ele possa ter cedido sob pressão (...). Levaram-no ontem à noite para um interrogatório e ele ainda não voltou".

Segundo o diário popular russo “Tvoi Den”, o número de mortos também se explica com o facto de várias das máscaras respiratórias a bordo estarem “defeituosas”. “Vi homens, a sufocar, mesmo com as suas máscaras respiratórias. Eu também tinha uma máscara mas só funcionou 7 a 15 minutos. Depois perdi a consciência”, conta um dos sobreviventes, Evgueni Ovsiannikov, citado hoje pelo jornal.

Apesar do drama, o submarino “Nerpa” será colocado ao serviço da Marinha russa, anunciou ontem o Chefe de Estado-Maior do Exército russo, o general Nikolai Makarov.




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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#64 Mensagem por luis F. Silva » Qui Nov 13, 2008 12:43 pm

O que interessa é que os soviét... perdão os russos já fabricaram um culpado!.... 8-]




cumprimentos.

Luis Filipe Silva

-------------------
CAMPANHA ANTI-FLOOD: OU POSTA KÔZA QUE PRESTE, QUE VÁ SOMAR, OU FICA SÓ LENDO. CHAT É NO MSN & QUETALES!!! by Túlio
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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#65 Mensagem por P44 » Qui Nov 13, 2008 1:04 pm

luis F. Silva escreveu:O que interessa é que os soviét... perdão os russos já fabricaram um culpado!.... 8-]
pt? is that you...? 8-]




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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#66 Mensagem por Paisano » Qui Nov 13, 2008 1:26 pm

P44 escreveu:
luis F. Silva escreveu:O que interessa é que os soviét... perdão os russos já fabricaram um culpado!.... 8-]
pt? is that you...? 8-]
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#67 Mensagem por Carlos Mathias » Qui Nov 13, 2008 4:21 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:




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Re: Acidente com Sub Nuclear Russo !!!!!!!!

#68 Mensagem por P44 » Ter Nov 18, 2008 7:36 am

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Lessons from the Nerpa sub accident

http://mnweekly.rian.ru/news/20081114/55356908.html

14/11/2008
An accident on the Nerpa nuclear-powered submarine claimed 20 lives, the largest number of casualties since the sinking of the Kursk submarine in 2000. The Russian and international press are highlighting the tragedy because it happened on a nuclear submarine, engendering many rumors.

We will know the details only when a government commission completes its investigation, but we can discuss the essence of the tragedy. First, to be clear, the submarine was not on combat duty but was still undergoing trials.

What happened on the Nerpa was a catastrophe, an accident that claimed human life. Officially, the tragedy was provoked by the unauthorized operation of the fire extinguishing system.

Next, Russian submarines are equipped with two fire extinguishing systems, an air-foam system designed to extinguish local fires, and a smothering line system for extinguishing three-dimensional fires (with the exception of powder and ammunition fires), which releases Freon or its derivatives into the endangered compartment, replacing oxygen to extinguish the fire.

Freon is very effective for extinguishing 3D fires but is highly toxic and is therefore a risk to any people who come in contact with it. This justified risk in a submarine is partly compensated by portable breathing apparatuses for the crew.

Manual initiation is required to activate the Freon system in a third-generation submarine, such as the Akula II class Nerpa nuclear attack submarine. There is one previous case recording a Freon release into the wrong compartment. It happened on a K-77 submarine in 1976 and was due to an assembly mistake made during repairs. The wrong number was painted on the wrong system at the shipyard.

All Russian submarines use this system, and we must assume that the Nerpa uses it as it has not been reported otherwise.

The crewmembers have access to portable breathing apparatuses, which ensure between 10 and 30 minutes of survival depending on the intensity of breathing. The oxygen is used faster under hard work.

The command post can order a Freon release only if the fire alarm sounds or if they receive the necessary alert verbally via the audio system. It is true that fire alarm systems sometimes malfunction, which puts special emphasis on communication between the command post and the affected compartment. Freon activation is not automatic when the fire alarm goes off. The Nerpa was completed only recently and was undergoing sea trials, which is why it had 81 sailors and over a hundred civilian specialists - workers and engineers from the shipyard, 208 in all. Most civilians lack military survival skills, but they work with sailors during trials to evaluate the systems.

What happened in the submarine's nose, where torpedoes are stocked?

The authorities say the 21 injured have no burns, which means there was no fire. There could be minor sources of fire and hence smoke in the compartment, which would have activated the fire alarm. As a result, the command post or somebody in the compartment may have decided to release Freon into the first and second compartments.

This made the atmosphere in the first (and possibly second) compartment unbreathable, and therefore lethal. Of the total number of victims (41), 36 were civilian specialists, who were most likely affected because they had not been trained or, less likely, because of a limited number of breathing apparatuses.

Workers and engineers taking part in building and testing submarines should be trained in survival procedures, including fire and the possible release of Freon.

And lastly, why were nearly three times more people on board during the sea trial? Overcrowding can only lead to commotion and disorder.

We can only hope that the proper conclusions will be drawn from the tragedy, and that it will not be repeated on the Nerpa or any other submarine.

Ilya Kramnik
Crew member 'tampered with temperature sensor on Nerpa sub'

MOSCOW, November 17 (RIA Novosti) - The deaths of 20 people on board the Russian nuclear submarine the Nerpa were caused by a crew member entering the wrong data into a temperature sensor, the Kommersant paper said on Monday. (INFOgraphics)

The business daily said, quoting a source close to the investigation, that sailor Dmitry Grobov is suspected of having entered the wrong temperature data for the submarine's living quarters, which caused the fire safety system to release Freon gas.

The source said that according to information obtained from the sub's Rotor data block, similar to an aircraft's black-box, "the temperature...increased sharply all of sudden and the fire safety system reacted as programmed."

The daily said that at the time of the incident Grobov was on a scheduled watch and the access code to the fire safety system was written in pencil on the surface of the equipment.

The tragedy occurred late on November 8 while the Nerpa was undergoing sea trials in the Sea of Japan. Three submariners and 17 shipyard workers died in the accident. There were 208 people, 81 of them submariners, on board the vessel at the time.

However, former Navy officers have told the paper they doubt that Grobov was solely to blame as it is impossible for one person to activate the system, which is protected from unauthorized activation by multiple levels of confirmation.

The submarine's reactor was not affected by the accident, which took place in the nose of the submarine, and radiation levels on board remained normal.

Investigators earlier announced that they had brought criminal charges against the crew member, and that he faced up to seven years in jail.

"Military investigators have determined the person who activated, without permission or any particular reason, a fire safety system on board the submarine. He is a sailor from the crew, and he has already confessed," Vladimir Markin, a spokesman for the Investigation Committee of the Prosecutor General's Office, said on November 13.

The incident is the worst for the Russian Navy since the sinking of the Kursk nuclear submarine in 2000 when all 118 sailors died.

The construction of the Akula II class Nerpa nuclear attack submarine started in 1991, but was suspended for over a decade due to a lack of funding. Akula II class vessels are considered the quietest and deadliest of all Russian nuclear-powered attack submarines.

Based in the Russian Far Eastern city of Komsomolsk-on-Amur, the Amur Shipbuilding Plant has built 270 vessels, including the Nerpa and another 55 nuclear submarines since it was established in 1936.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20081117/118352822.html




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