Arábia Saudita compra 150 Helis Russos ($2.2 Bil U$)!!!

Assuntos em discussão: Força Aérea Brasileira, forças aéreas estrangeiras e aviação militar.

Moderadores: Glauber Prestes, Conselho de Moderação

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#31 Mensagem por zela » Qua Out 31, 2007 10:30 am

PARIS --- In an abrupt policy shift, Saudi Arabia has signed an agreement to buy over 150 Russian-made Mi-35 Hind and Mi-17 Hip helicopters worth over $2.2 billion, ending French hopes of sealing a long-delayed sale of 148 helicopters and raising doubts about future French arms sales to the Saudi kingdom.

Sources say the Memorandum of Understanding with Russia was signed in Ryad in mid-September by members of the private cabinet of Saudi King Abdallah bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud, and follows extended visits to Russia by Saudi military delegations in February and March 2007 to appraise the capabilities of Russian helicopters and other weapons.

The sources also said that Saudi Arabia appears to have decided to buy T-90 main battle tanks and medium-range air-defense systems from Russia, replacing previous plans to buy French-made Leclerc tanks and Aster 30 SAMP/T air-defense systems. No agreement has yet been signed for these systems, however,

Eurocopter confirmed that Saudi Arabia has opted for Russian helicopters, but said the company’s future prospects in the country remained unclear. Nexter, manufacturer of the Leclerc tank, and missile maker MBDA had no comment on the status of their dealings with Saudi Arabia.

While conceding that the Saudis had signed an agreement to buy Russian utility helicopters, a senior French official told defense-aerospace.com that the Mi-17 and Mi-35 met only part of the Saudi requirement. Noting that the two Saudi customers – the Armed Forces and the National Guard - would not necessarily buy the same equipment, he said that France was still in the running to sell several other helicopter types. These include naval, Combat Search And Rescue and training helicopters, he implied, for which Russian helicopters are unsuited.

Saudi Arabia’s decision to retain Russia as a major arms supplier is the result of two recent policy decisions made by King Abdallah bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud. One was Abdallah’s decision to take direct control of major arms purchases, which were previously largely the domain of the defense and aviation ministry headed by Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz, the Saudi Crown Prince and deputy prime minister who is also Abdallah’s half-brother. Sultan is said to be out of favor.

Abdallah also is loosening arms ties with France because of its insistence on large, multiple-system packages, and its stubborn arm-twisting to include weapons that the Saudis do not want, like the Rafale combat aircraft, in these packages.

While the Saudis were willing as late as the fall of 2006 to sign two or three medium-sized helicopters deals, covering 42 Fennec light helicopters, 20 Cougar Combat Search and Rescue helicopters and 10 NFH-90 naval helicopters, sources say they indefinitely postponed these plans after French officials continued to insist that the package also include Rafales, several FREMM frigates and Gowind corvettes, and Leclerc tanks.

“The idea of selling comprehensive packages was pushed by the Elysée [the French President’s office-Ed.] as a final coup for [former President Jacques] Chirac,” one industry official told defense-aerospace.com. “Now, Chirac’s gone, we’ve signed nothing, and we’re shut out of the Saudi market for the foreseeable future. A real success for France,” the official said.

France has now conceded it will not sell Rafale to Saudi Arabia. “We haven’t discussed Rafale in Saudi Arabia. It’s not a current issue,” French Defense Minister Hervé Morin said Oct. 28 in Jeddah, after talks with Saudi leaders.

[France is hoping that Libya, which has contracted to upgrade its obsolete Dassault Mirage F-1 fighters, may also agree to buy the Rafale, and an agreement could be announced during Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi’s forthcoming visit to Paris, possibly in December.]

The Saudis are also said to be unhappy with what they perceive as French snubs. These include the French government’s failure to appoint an official of sufficiently high rank to head Sofresa, the arms export agency especially set up to handle contracts with Saudi Arabia. France’s use of local marketing networks that include individuals that are “persona non grata” at King Abdallah’s court is seen as another snub.

France’s insistence on stuffing as many weapons as possible into arms deals has also been cited as one of the reasons why Morocco finally opted to buy the U.S.-made F-16 fighter instead of the Rafale, which Paris wanted to supply in a single package together with helicopters and corvettes.

Another factor is that the election in May of Nicolas Sarkozy to succeed Chirac as French president has not gone down well with the Saudis, who take exception at his declarations that French diplomacy would in future distance itself from its traditional pro-Arab stance.

The loss of the Saudi contracts, whose total value was estimated at well over 7 billion euros, is a severe loss for French industry, which is encountering growing difficulties in exporting its weapons in the face of cut-throat competition from the United States and Russia.

Paris is now making a last-ditch attempt to salvage at least some Saudi deals, and President Sarkozy’s planned visit to Saudi Arabia, in January, might constitute such an opportunity. The sale of several Airbus tanker aircraft, and possibly of a reconnaissance satellite which Saudi Arabia would share with Qatar and the United Arab Emirates, are two possibilities.

The sale of Fennec light helicopters, which the Saudis need for pilot training, may finally go through simply because there is no direct Russian competitor, sources say, noting however that this sale is only worth about 300 million euros.


FONTE: defense-aerospace.com




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#32 Mensagem por P44 » Qua Out 31, 2007 10:33 am

France’s insistence on stuffing as many weapons as possible into arms deals has also been cited as one of the reasons why Morocco finally opted to buy the U.S.-made F-16 fighter instead of the Rafale, which Paris wanted to supply in a single package together with helicopters and corvettes.


:wink: parece que se descobriu a razão porque Marrocos escolheu os F-16




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#33 Mensagem por zela » Qua Out 31, 2007 10:34 am

Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas




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#34 Mensagem por Sniper » Qua Out 31, 2007 12:39 pm

zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:




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#35 Mensagem por Plinio Jr » Qua Out 31, 2007 12:42 pm

Sniper escreveu:
zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:


Estes ¨lixos¨eles não se interessam... :!: :!: :!:




¨Os políticos e as fraldas devem ser mudados frequentemente e pela mesma razão ¨- Eça de Queiroz
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#36 Mensagem por Sniper » Qua Out 31, 2007 12:43 pm

Plinio Jr escreveu:
Sniper escreveu:
zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:


Estes ¨lixos¨eles não se interessam... :!: :!: :!:


É lixo Francês... são caros e delicados... :lol: :wink:




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#37 Mensagem por Plinio Jr » Qua Out 31, 2007 12:45 pm

Sniper escreveu:
Plinio Jr escreveu:
Sniper escreveu:
zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:


Estes ¨lixos¨eles não se interessam... :!: :!: :!:


É lixo Francês... são caros e delicados... :lol: :wink:


Que nada...eles gostam é de porcarias mesmo.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:




¨Os políticos e as fraldas devem ser mudados frequentemente e pela mesma razão ¨- Eça de Queiroz
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#38 Mensagem por Alitson » Qua Out 31, 2007 1:03 pm

Sniper escreveu:
zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:


É verdade, pacotão é F-5Mike, Niterói ModFRag, IKL-209 com torpedos dos anos 70, Fennec com foguetes e .50 e Super Pumas... :roll: :lol: :cry:




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#39 Mensagem por WalterGaudério » Qua Out 31, 2007 1:31 pm

Sniper escreveu:
zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:


A Parte naval não é(de todo) ruim não POWs!




Só há 2 tipos de navios: os submarinos e os alvos...

Armam-se homens com as melhores armas.
Armam-se Submarinos com os melhores homens.


Os sábios PENSAM
Os Inteligentes COPIAM
Os Idiotas PLANTAM e os
Os Imbecis FINANCIAM...
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#40 Mensagem por zela » Qua Out 31, 2007 1:39 pm

O que eu quero dizer é que se os franceses quiserem vender o Rafale ao Brasil, mas somente na base do pacotão, duvido muito que ele ganhe por aqui...vai perder de novo




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#41 Mensagem por Sniper » Qua Out 31, 2007 1:50 pm

cicloneprojekt escreveu:
Sniper escreveu:
zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:


A Parte naval não é(de todo) ruim não POWs!


É que se for Francês, é sinônimo de lixo Walter... :roll: :lol:




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#42 Mensagem por Carlos Mathias » Qua Out 31, 2007 2:45 pm

Como se não soubessem... A questão é que eles fazem o pacotão com o preço diretamente proporcional ao tamanho do pacote. Daí, o comprador olha pro lado e vê que se comprar separadamente, pode ter tudo igual por muito menos.

Helis? Tiger fora, entra Cobre, MAngusta, Mi-28 e etc. Fragata? MEKO não-sei-das-quantas, F-100/300 e etc. E por aí vai.

Malandro demais se atrapalha. :wink:




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#43 Mensagem por AlbertoRJ » Qua Out 31, 2007 10:48 pm

Sniper escreveu:
cicloneprojekt escreveu:
Sniper escreveu:
zela escreveu:Tomara que não tentem enfiar esse "pacotão francês" por essas bandas


:shock: :?:

Rafale, FREMM, Scorpene, Tiger e EC-725 :?:

Tomara mesmo que não compremos esse pacote... :roll:


A Parte naval não é(de todo) ruim não POWs!


É que se for Francês, é sinônimo de lixo Walter... :roll: :lol:


Porcaria francesa não, por favor :roll: :?

[]'s




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#44 Mensagem por Penguin » Qua Out 31, 2007 10:57 pm

Algo me deixa intrigado....esta noticia nao saiu ate agora em nenhuma fonte russa ou francesa (e nenhuma outra).


Olha só o que este mesmo reporter escreveu ano passado (mesma fonte: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bi ... dele=jdc_1):

Saudi Arabia Launches Huge Arms Buying Spree; France to Net Most Orders

(Source: defense-aerospace.com; issued July 22, 2006) (Updated July 25, 2006)


By Giovanni de Briganti


Saudi Arabia will buy 142 helicopters from France, including 64 NH-90 helicopters such as the one shown here, as well as tanker aircraft and other weapons in the largest arms export deal ever signed by France. (Photo © Eurocopter)PARIS --- The Saudi government last week agreed to purchase a total of 142 helicopters from France, in a deal that will modernize its military helicopter fleet at a single stroke and that, together with additional contracts to follow, firmly establishes France as the kingdom’s main weapons supplier.

The helicopter contract, due to be signed with France’s Sofresa arms export agency, will cover 64 NH-90 battlefield helicopters; 20 Eurocopter Cougar utility helicopters in Combat Search and Rescue version; 42 Eurocopter Fennec light helicopters; four Panther naval Search and Rescue helicopters; and an initial batch of 12 Tiger attack helicopters. The NH-90s are made by NH Industries, a joint company in which France’s Eurocopter has a 62.5% share, while all other types are produced by Eurocopter.

The contract also includes the provision of weapons, spare parts, training services and support equipment, as well as the construction of several helicopter bases, boosting its total value to well over 7 billion euros, sources say. It is the largest single arms export deal ever signed by France.

The NH-90 order includes 10 naval NFH-90s for the Saudi navy; 42 TTH-90 battlefield helicopters for the Saudi Army and 12 more for the Saudi Arabian National Guard, while the Fennec order comprises 30 helicopters for the Saudi air force and 12 for the national guard. The 12 Tigers will be operated by the Saudi Arabian National Guard, which is to eventually procure a total of 36 or 48.

A separate contract will cover an unspecified number of Airbus A330 aerial tankers, similar to the KC-30 that EADS, the corporate parent of both Airbus and Eurocopter, has offered to the US Air Force.


Main Saudi Arms Procurement Projects
(Source: defense-aerospace.com research, press reports; E= euros)
(Table corrected July 25, 2006)
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The new Saudi arms purchases from France are the result of an expanded defense alliance set out in two political framework agreements signed here late on July 21 by the Saudi Crown Prince and Defense Minister, Sultan Ben Abdelaziz Al Saoud. The agreements cover closer defense cooperation between the two countries as well as the supply of a wide range of military hardware. “These agreements, signed at the highest level of the two states, define the scope of our cooperation in the field of military equipment,” French presidential spokesman Jérôme Bonnafont told reporters July 21 adding that “new cooperation projects for military equipment will be implemented.”

In addition to the helicopters and tankers, contracts for which should be signed in the coming weeks, Saudi Arabia also plans to purchase Leclerc main battle tanks, French-Italian FREMM frigates and submarines in 2007 and 2008, while the possible purchase of Dassault Aviation Rafale combat aircraft is still being discussed.

The French orders come as Saudi Arabia last week unexpectedly embarked on a huge weapon buying spree to substantially upgrade its armed forces.

The first contract, announced July 21, covers the supply of 76 Caesar truck-mounted 155mm artillery pieces manufactured by France’s state-owned GIAT Industries, for a value estimated at several hundred million euros. The manufacturer, for whom this is both the largest Caesar contract to date and the largest export contract of the past decade, will confirm neither the customer nor the value.

The previous day, the Pentagon formally notified Congress of its intention to sell 724 Light Armored Vehicles made by General Dynamics Land Systems, London, Ontario and related equipment (worth $5.8 billion) for the Saudi Arabian National Guard. A separate contract was also notified covering the sale of 24 Sikorsky UH-60L Black Hawk armed utility helicopters, worth $350 million, to the Royal Saudi Land Forces. These two contracts will be automatically approved unless Congress opposes them within 30 days.

According to French spokesman Bonnafont, the additional contracts “will be finalized later, depending on the progress of bilateral discussions.” He confirmed that these talks will center on the acquisition by Saudi Arabia of Dassault Aviation Rafale combat aircraft and of Leclerc main battle tanks, made by GIAT Industries. The latter are intended to replace the obsolete AMX-30 tanks operated by the Saudi army’s so-called “French brigade,” and which were originally procured in the 1970s.

A possible Rafale sale to Saudi Arabia has been the subject of much speculation in recent years, but had appeared to fade after Saudi Arabia on December 21, 2005 signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the British government which called for “Typhoon aircraft [to] replace Tornado Air Defence Variant aircraft and others currently in service with the Royal Saudi Air Force.”

At the time, British media reported that the related contract, initially covering 24 Typhoons with at least 48 more to follow, would be signed by June, but none has so far been announced.

The French spokesman’s confirmation that a Rafale sale is being negotiated is a major advance for the French fighter, which formally entered French air force service in late June but which is still looking for its first export customer. It is not clear, however, whether Rafale would be procured instead of, or in addition to, the Typhoon.

No indication has been given of the number of Rafales that Saudi Arabia would buy, but sources say an initial purchase would likely cover 48 aircraft. If confirmed, this would set the deal’s value at around 6 billion euros, including weapons, spares and support equipment.

Saudi Arabia also has a relatively urgent requirement to replace her older coastal defense vessels (four Badr-class corvettes and nine Al Siddiq-class patrol boats) with much larger missile corvettes displacing around 2,000 tonnes. France’s DCN has offered its Gowind design for this requirement.

A second naval requirement is for four to six French-Italian FREMM new-generation multi-purpose frigates to replace the older French-supplied Medina-class (Sawari I project) frigates. These frigates alone are valued at 3 billion euros. In the longer term, the Royal Saudi Navy would like to introduce a submarine flotilla comprising about six conventionally-powered attack submarines, for which DCN is offering its Marlin design, derived from the Scorpene submarine it developed jointly with Spain’s Navantia shipyards group. No value has been quoted for this project.

French companies, along with contractors from China, Russia, the UK and the US, will compete for Saudi Arabia’s Miksa program, an ambitious border control network comprising up to 225 radar stations to monitor the kingdom’s ground borders, coasts and airspace. While this was negotiated directly with France’s Thales Group for several years, Saudi Arabia earlier this year decided to launch a competition; responses to its Request for Information are due in late August, to be followed by a Request for Proposals with a deadline of late December. The project’s value is estimated at 7 billion euros.

-ends-




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#45 Mensagem por talharim » Qui Nov 01, 2007 11:16 am

Esse pacote Mi-17/Mi-35 está fazendo um enorme sucesso de vendas.

Ou os helis são bons demais,ou os off-sets são bons demais,ou o preço é baixo de mais para depois ganharem na manutenção,ou sei lá o que justifica o grande interesse mundial nesses helis.




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