Se chama Cherniy Tulipan
Conta a triste experiencia que os russos tiveram no afeganistão....
...
A tradução do Russo pro Inglês... mto interessante e triste:
...
" In Afganistan, in the "Black Tulip,
With Vodka in the glass,
We are flying in silence.
Over the Border,
Back to Russian sunrise,
This morbid bird is carrying the boys home.
In the "Black Tulip"
Are those, who from the missions,
Coming to motherland to lay in the ground.
Ripped to pieces,
They are leaving to endless vacation.
They will never be able to hug the sholders of loved ones.
Ret:
When our "Tulip" is diving to the oasis' of Djelalabad,
We were cursing our work.
Once again some boy has let down the company by dying.
In Shindand, Kandagar and Bagram,
We'll take a heavy load to our hearts,
Once again taking home the twenty year old heroes,
Who is going home to lay in graves.
We must make it back,
We must have it together,
If we brake down,
We will get hit.
Mountains are giving fire,
Stingers are flying,
If we get hit,
The guys will die second time.
We are flying not the same as home,
Where there is no war, and everything is familiar.
Where pilots see corpses once a year,
Where the helicopters are not dropped from the skyes.
We're going clinching our teeth in anger,
Dry lips are moistened by vodka,
The caravans are still coming from Pakistan,
That means there is more work for the "Tulip"
In Afganistan, in the "Black Tulip,
With Vodka in the glass,
We are flying in silence.
Over the Border,
Back to Russian sunrise,
This morbid bird is carrying our brothers home.
Ret:
When our "Tulip" is diving to the oasis' of Djelalabad,
We were cursing our work.
Once again some boy has let down the company by dying.
In Shindand, Kandagar and Bagram,
We'll take a heavy load to our hearts,
Once again taking home the twenty year old heroes,
Who is going home to lay in graves."
A Experiencia Russa no Afeganistão 1979-1989
Moderador: Conselho de Moderação
A Experiencia Russa no Afeganistão 1979-1989
Editado pela última vez por Spetsnaz em Ter Set 07, 2004 3:32 pm, em um total de 1 vez.
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César
- Sênior
- Mensagens: 4297
- Registrado em: Qua Fev 19, 2003 7:14 pm
- Localização: Florianópolis
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Belas fotos Spetnaz; 
Os soviéticos realmente tiveram uma resistência tremenda no Afeganistão. Ainda tiveram que ficar aguentando ataques de guerrilha constantes, e ver os seus helicópteros(praticamente a única arma eficiente contra os mujahhedeens escondidos nas montanhas) sendo derrubados às centenas pelos Stingers vendidos pelos EUA.
Interessante ver que os EUA apoiaram esse grupo guerrilheiro TERRORISTA e que cultivava largamente a papoula, e alguns anos depois fazerem uma guerra contra o mesmo grupo falando isso.
Os americanos não aguentariam tanto quanto os russos por um motivo simples. Equipamento russo apesar de ser menos sofisticado que o americano, é mais robusto. Os equipamentos americanos operando naquele inferno quebrariam o tempo todo, e os problemas logísticos e de manutenção chegariam a níveis intoleráveis para eles continuarem lá sob ataques constantes de guerrilheiros.
Abraço!
César
Os soviéticos realmente tiveram uma resistência tremenda no Afeganistão. Ainda tiveram que ficar aguentando ataques de guerrilha constantes, e ver os seus helicópteros(praticamente a única arma eficiente contra os mujahhedeens escondidos nas montanhas) sendo derrubados às centenas pelos Stingers vendidos pelos EUA.
Interessante ver que os EUA apoiaram esse grupo guerrilheiro TERRORISTA e que cultivava largamente a papoula, e alguns anos depois fazerem uma guerra contra o mesmo grupo falando isso.
Os americanos não aguentariam tanto quanto os russos por um motivo simples. Equipamento russo apesar de ser menos sofisticado que o americano, é mais robusto. Os equipamentos americanos operando naquele inferno quebrariam o tempo todo, e os problemas logísticos e de manutenção chegariam a níveis intoleráveis para eles continuarem lá sob ataques constantes de guerrilheiros.
Abraço!
César
"- Tú julgarás a ti mesmo- respondeu-lhe o rei - É o mais difícil. É bem mais difícil julgar a si mesmo que julgar os outros. Se consegues fazer um bom julgamento de ti, és um verdadeiro sábio."
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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LEO
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- Registrado em: Sáb Fev 22, 2003 6:07 pm
- Localização: Campinas/SP
- Agradeceu: 1 vez
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Stingers vendidos pelos EUA.
Os Stingers foram cedidos pelos EUA, ou então, por um preço simbolico ou abaixo de seu real valor.
No total, se acredita que foram parar as mãos de afegão, cerca de 1100 lançadores Stingers, mas, cerca de 350 foram usados em combate, o resto foi parar nas mãos de diferentes milicias e depois identificados na Coreia do Norte, Iran e Qatar.
O governo americano tentou comprar de volta os Stingers usados no Afeganistão, mas não conseguiram e, os Stingers continuaram nas mãos de afegãos.
Interessante ver que os EUA apoiaram esse grupo guerrilheiro TERRORISTA e que cultivava largamente a papoula, e alguns anos depois fazerem uma guerra contra o mesmo grupo falando isso.
Os EUA apoiam quem é de proveito pra eles, como foi o caso do grupo guerrilheiro que combateu os russos no Afeganistão. Depois, esse mesmo grupo foi o alvo do EUA, já que não era de mais proveito, mas pra fazer isso, os americanos também apoiaram diferentes grupos rivais para derruba-lo do poder e, com isso, também cedeu equipamentos para esses grupos. O mesmo com o Iraque.
Mais umas fotos....
Spetsnaz descançando... 1987
Oficiais Spetsnaz... 1987
Spetsnaz se preparando para atacar uma caravana de suprimento afegã...
Após o ataque a caravana..
Após o ataque a caravana..
Spetsnaz 1987...
Visitando uma vila afegã... 1987..
1980 afegãos escondidos na montanha, fazem uma emboscada contra os Sovieticos....
Um mujahedin afegão com uma metralhadora pesada...
1980, guerrilha afegã relaxando nas montanhas..
1988, um bando de rebeldes, descançam fora de Jalalabad.. (reparem nos 2 Stingers...)
Tropas carregando munição...
Rebeldes afegãos com uma obsoleta arma AAA...
Ahmad Shah Masud, com rebeldes no Vale do Pandjshir.. Masud que era conhecido como o Leão do Vale do Pandjshir, após a guerra lederou a aliança do norte contra o taliban, um pouco antes de 11 de setembro , o mesmo foi assassinado pelos talibans, fingiram que eram uma equipe de televisão porém a camera continha uma bomba..... Ahmad Masud foi uma das maiores dores de cabeça para os Soviéticos...
Rebeldes em cima de um Mi-8 capturado...
Soldado soviético capturado...
Rebeldes afegãos capturam soldado soviético a Leste de Kabul, ...
.... e o matam.... 1980...
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rodrigo
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Esse conflito, assim como o Vietnã para os americanos, foi um pesadelo porque os sistemas de detecção infravermelho ainda estavam engatinhando. Achar o inimigo era muito difícil. E, nos dois conflitos, havia uma superpotência ajudando o outro lado. É claro que no Afeganistão, a ajuda e a presença americana era muito menor do que a soviética no Vietnã, e a derrota tem como um dos elementos a incapacidade dos soviéticos de combater em ofensiva.
"O correr da vida embrulha tudo,
a vida é assim: esquenta e esfria,
aperta e daí afrouxa,
sossega e depois desinquieta.
O que ela quer da gente é coragem."
João Guimarães Rosa
a vida é assim: esquenta e esfria,
aperta e daí afrouxa,
sossega e depois desinquieta.
O que ela quer da gente é coragem."
João Guimarães Rosa
Postados por: 16 OBr SpN
"During Afghan war, the Afghan commanders, Rabbani and Hekmatiyar, set up a reward of 2 million dolllars for the heads of three spetsnaz commanders: Major Vitaly Bykov; Captain Sergey Breslavsky; and Major Yuriy Sapalov. That was 2 million dollars for each.
Units under their command were the most feared ones. I had an honor to serve in the same unit with one of them.
There was a famous operation which was executed by Breslavsky's unit. They were on a routine fly-over mission on a helicopter. Breslavsky ordered the pilot to land, and they went on foot towards what he thought was a possbile caravan path. But given the geographic features of Afghanistan, they soon realized they were 20km. deep in the Pakistani territory! Soon they spotted a base which was used as a training, and R&R facility for mujahedin. They decided to raid that base at night.
When time came, they stormed the territory, literally slaughtering everyone inside. End result: 58 enemy soldiers dead, among them - 8 Pakistani, and 2 American instructors. Plus large amount of weapons (including "Stingers"), and ammo was destroyed.
On our side: 2 slightly wounded. Overall there were 17 people in the unit.
Afghanis called Breslavsky's unit (334th OO SpN) - Safed Shaitonon (White Devils).
As for Kurbashi, you are talking about Major Hamid Halbaev from 154th OO SpN. He's of Uzbek nationality. His group was operating in Jelalabad region. He had this dangerous habit: at night, he alone quitely goes out on a "walk" dressed like a regular Afghan. He had only APSB and a knife. I know that he neutralized 24 mujahedin as a result of his regular "night walks". He mostly used his knife. Then the guy comes back after his "mission" falls asleep for only 2 hours, and then goes on a mission during daytime. Like a f*** machine! Smile
Regards,
16 OBr SpN"
"Afgans had a hard time using "Stingers" efficiently.
Once "Stingers" got introduced in the war, we quickly changed our tactics. Some technical precautions were intruduced as well.
The problem was mostly, Afghans didn't follow the correct procedure of using the "Stinger". That's why in many cases "Stingers" were used just like a regular RPG. Most of the choppers that were hit were shot down near the bases, i.e. with no security measures. During battle missions, trouble mostly came from large caliber machineguns rather than from "Stingers".
One of the captured mujahedin told us that their American instructors gave them strict instructions of how to destroy the weapon, but again when you are under surprise attack, the last thing you think about is instructions on destroying the weapon.
The whole "Stinger" issue was more political than practical.
Regards,
16 OBr SpN"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Um Artigo:
Despite our continuous emphasis on security, on the need to prevent any Stingers or missiles reaching the enemy, the inevitable eventually happened. Twice, in early 1987, we lost Stingers, firstly to the Soviets, and then to the Iranian.
We had trained a team destined to operate in the Kandahar area under the infamous Mulla Malang (‘the Butcher’). On his way back to his base of operations with three Stingers he was successfully ambushed by a Spetsnaz unit. Despite my personal briefing on how to move tactically and remain alerl, he managed to break all the rules of security. He put two grip-stocks and four missiles in his advance party, while he, with the remaining Stinger, followed some way behind with his main body. The advance party had halted and were caught napping by the Spetsnaz, who suddenly descended on the Mujahideen in helicopters. Far from being shot down, the gunships landed and disgorged the commandos who proceeded to kill or capture the entire group, with the exception of one man who escaped. The Soviets must have been well rewarded when they returned with such valuable booty.
For months I hesitated to deploy Stingers in the provinces bordering Iran. There was a real risk of its being sold or given to the Iranians. However, after we knew the Soviets had captured some I decided to take the chance. I introduced the weapon to sensitive areas near Herat, Shindand and other suitable areas near the Iranian border. Tooran ismail of Jierat was the first Commander of this region to get Stingers through his deputy, former Colonel Alauddin, who came to Pakistan for training, and later escorted the missiles himself, Thereafter we selected a less important Commander from Khalis’ Party. After training, he was given two new vehicles and escorted up to the border, where he was briefed at length on the route he should take through Helinand Province. On no account was he to go into Iran. Inexcusably this Commander returned to Quetta after a short ourney into Afghanistan, on the pretext of collecting more weapons, leaving his party to continue without him. They had difficulty crossing the Helmand River and deviated from their intended route. Whether by accident or design they ended up being arrested in Iranian territory by the Passadars (Iranian Border Scouts). They had with them four Stinger launchers and sixteen missiles. Repeated efforts by Khalis and Rabbani, who had excellent contacts in Iran, failed to get them returned. The Iranian authorities never actually refused to give them back, they just kept delaying their release with one excuse or another. To this day we have never seen these missiles again. I do not know if it is generally known that Iran has had access to these weapons since 1987. I can only pray they never end up with a terrorist organization. Needless to say, it was the last time KhaIis got any Stingers while I remained in office."[/img]
"During Afghan war, the Afghan commanders, Rabbani and Hekmatiyar, set up a reward of 2 million dolllars for the heads of three spetsnaz commanders: Major Vitaly Bykov; Captain Sergey Breslavsky; and Major Yuriy Sapalov. That was 2 million dollars for each.
Units under their command were the most feared ones. I had an honor to serve in the same unit with one of them.
There was a famous operation which was executed by Breslavsky's unit. They were on a routine fly-over mission on a helicopter. Breslavsky ordered the pilot to land, and they went on foot towards what he thought was a possbile caravan path. But given the geographic features of Afghanistan, they soon realized they were 20km. deep in the Pakistani territory! Soon they spotted a base which was used as a training, and R&R facility for mujahedin. They decided to raid that base at night.
When time came, they stormed the territory, literally slaughtering everyone inside. End result: 58 enemy soldiers dead, among them - 8 Pakistani, and 2 American instructors. Plus large amount of weapons (including "Stingers"), and ammo was destroyed.
On our side: 2 slightly wounded. Overall there were 17 people in the unit.
Afghanis called Breslavsky's unit (334th OO SpN) - Safed Shaitonon (White Devils).
As for Kurbashi, you are talking about Major Hamid Halbaev from 154th OO SpN. He's of Uzbek nationality. His group was operating in Jelalabad region. He had this dangerous habit: at night, he alone quitely goes out on a "walk" dressed like a regular Afghan. He had only APSB and a knife. I know that he neutralized 24 mujahedin as a result of his regular "night walks". He mostly used his knife. Then the guy comes back after his "mission" falls asleep for only 2 hours, and then goes on a mission during daytime. Like a f*** machine! Smile
Regards,
16 OBr SpN"
"Afgans had a hard time using "Stingers" efficiently.
Once "Stingers" got introduced in the war, we quickly changed our tactics. Some technical precautions were intruduced as well.
The problem was mostly, Afghans didn't follow the correct procedure of using the "Stinger". That's why in many cases "Stingers" were used just like a regular RPG. Most of the choppers that were hit were shot down near the bases, i.e. with no security measures. During battle missions, trouble mostly came from large caliber machineguns rather than from "Stingers".
One of the captured mujahedin told us that their American instructors gave them strict instructions of how to destroy the weapon, but again when you are under surprise attack, the last thing you think about is instructions on destroying the weapon.
The whole "Stinger" issue was more political than practical.
Regards,
16 OBr SpN"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Um Artigo:
Despite our continuous emphasis on security, on the need to prevent any Stingers or missiles reaching the enemy, the inevitable eventually happened. Twice, in early 1987, we lost Stingers, firstly to the Soviets, and then to the Iranian.
We had trained a team destined to operate in the Kandahar area under the infamous Mulla Malang (‘the Butcher’). On his way back to his base of operations with three Stingers he was successfully ambushed by a Spetsnaz unit. Despite my personal briefing on how to move tactically and remain alerl, he managed to break all the rules of security. He put two grip-stocks and four missiles in his advance party, while he, with the remaining Stinger, followed some way behind with his main body. The advance party had halted and were caught napping by the Spetsnaz, who suddenly descended on the Mujahideen in helicopters. Far from being shot down, the gunships landed and disgorged the commandos who proceeded to kill or capture the entire group, with the exception of one man who escaped. The Soviets must have been well rewarded when they returned with such valuable booty.
For months I hesitated to deploy Stingers in the provinces bordering Iran. There was a real risk of its being sold or given to the Iranians. However, after we knew the Soviets had captured some I decided to take the chance. I introduced the weapon to sensitive areas near Herat, Shindand and other suitable areas near the Iranian border. Tooran ismail of Jierat was the first Commander of this region to get Stingers through his deputy, former Colonel Alauddin, who came to Pakistan for training, and later escorted the missiles himself, Thereafter we selected a less important Commander from Khalis’ Party. After training, he was given two new vehicles and escorted up to the border, where he was briefed at length on the route he should take through Helinand Province. On no account was he to go into Iran. Inexcusably this Commander returned to Quetta after a short ourney into Afghanistan, on the pretext of collecting more weapons, leaving his party to continue without him. They had difficulty crossing the Helmand River and deviated from their intended route. Whether by accident or design they ended up being arrested in Iranian territory by the Passadars (Iranian Border Scouts). They had with them four Stinger launchers and sixteen missiles. Repeated efforts by Khalis and Rabbani, who had excellent contacts in Iran, failed to get them returned. The Iranian authorities never actually refused to give them back, they just kept delaying their release with one excuse or another. To this day we have never seen these missiles again. I do not know if it is generally known that Iran has had access to these weapons since 1987. I can only pray they never end up with a terrorist organization. Needless to say, it was the last time KhaIis got any Stingers while I remained in office."[/img]