Fórum Defesa Brasil

I have read alot on this discussion board reference the choice for the new SAAF fighter aircraft. I accept that cost effectiveness and many other considerations are always important, however, the most important issue is deciding what actually you intend using the aircraft for. The RAF bought and developed the Typhoon as an Air Dominance fighter although following its near 30 yr development they have discovered that a more multi role aircraft is required. They are now attempting to retro design the aircraft for OCA and CAS roles. This is proving highly expensive. The Americans have gone the same route with the F-15E and the F-16CJ.

Having worked very recently with Tornado F3 and Typhoons Vs Indian Air Force SU-30s it must not be ignored that the newer Russian designed aircraft are frequently superior to western airframes. Having also fought against the MiG 29 in kosovo they cannot be discounted even when operating F-15's. It was amazing to watch the US run in all directions when a pair of Serb MiG-29s took off. They would raid match at least 4 to 1. The difference there compared to many of the SAAFs opponents is of course pilot ability and currency with many African nations pilots struggling to meet minimum flying requirement and serviceability states for airframes.

The other issue to consider is the support assets available for all of these types of aircraft. The RAF and the USAF as well as many European Air Forces heavily utilise GCI and also AWACS aircraft as stated in an earlier post. By effectively utilising AWACS the actual range of the Gripen AI Radar isn't an issue. The Typhoon is comfortably painting tgts at 120NM although when the E-3 is spotting them at over 400 and missile ranges are only 80NM (Meteor) the combination of a layered Air Defence system and effective C4I will defeat the majority of less sophiscated Air Forces.

The Swedish effectively operate the Gripen in conjuntion with the Erieye AEW & C aircraft. This is far smaller that the E-3 however it has an efficient Radar and higly trained crews. It should be considered that the SAAF should also be buying into the C4I world as well as Network Centric Warfare and Tactical Data Links. It is with these Force Multipliers that ehance the basic capabilities of any Fast Jet.

With regards to Stealth, this really isnt going to be too much of an issue for South Africa. Stealth merely defeats certain Radars, usually in the D or E/F frequency band. Newer Radars as well as Older ones can, with some degree of operator skill see "Stealthy" aircraft. Having worked with the F/A-22 out of Langley in the states, the AWACS can comfortably Paint it using the original Pulse Radar.

As mentioned misille technology has largely surpassed aircraft technology. So unless you have the money of the United States it is important that the 2 isuues are blended as efficiantly as possible. A Typhoon operating the CAPTOR Radar (c120NM) carrying the Meteor missile (80NM) with good AWACS/GCI support will be taking out F/A-22s all day until the AMRAAM (c30NM) is updated. Further it is amazing to watch everyday the F-15C/E based in the UK trying to "surprise" the Typhoons over the North Sea. The Typhoons are yet to be locked up.

I agree that the Gripen is comparible and even superior than most of the F-16 family. Having worked all over Europe the Swedes have held their own in all exercises. You have to question how long support for the F-16 will last though from the States as soon as the F-35 Lightning II arrives.

In conclusion I believe that South Africa has purchased a world class multi role aircraft in the Grippen. It must now however, equip it with modern weapons systems, develop effective modern tactics and hopefully purchase some sort of AEW platform. Whether that be the Erieye from Sweden or something a bit bigger like the Australians B-737 Wedgetail. It is intergrated Air Defence and Air Offence systems that complete the package.
_________________
D R Sharp
Flt Lt
8 Sqn, Surveillance
RAF Waddington
+447825184141

Sintra escreveu:

I have read alot on this discussion board reference the choice for the new SAAF fighter aircraft. I accept that cost effectiveness and many other considerations are always important, however, the most important issue is deciding what actually you intend using the aircraft for. The RAF bought and developed the Typhoon as an Air Dominance fighter although following its near 30 yr development they have discovered that a more multi role aircraft is required. They are now attempting to retro design the aircraft for OCA and CAS roles. This is proving highly expensive. The Americans have gone the same route with the F-15E and the F-16CJ.

Having worked very recently with Tornado F3 and Typhoons Vs Indian Air Force SU-30s it must not be ignored that the newer Russian designed aircraft are frequently superior to western airframes. Having also fought against the MiG 29 in kosovo they cannot be discounted even when operating F-15's. It was amazing to watch the US run in all directions when a pair of Serb MiG-29s took off. They would raid match at least 4 to 1. The difference there compared to many of the SAAFs opponents is of course pilot ability and currency with many African nations pilots struggling to meet minimum flying requirement and serviceability states for airframes.

The other issue to consider is the support assets available for all of these types of aircraft. The RAF and the USAF as well as many European Air Forces heavily utilise GCI and also AWACS aircraft as stated in an earlier post. By effectively utilising AWACS the actual range of the Gripen AI Radar isn't an issue. The Typhoon is comfortably painting tgts at 120NM although when the E-3 is spotting them at over 400 and missile ranges are only 80NM (Meteor) the combination of a layered Air Defence system and effective C4I will defeat the majority of less sophiscated Air Forces.

The Swedish effectively operate the Gripen in conjuntion with the Erieye AEW & C aircraft. This is far smaller that the E-3 however it has an efficient Radar and higly trained crews. It should be considered that the SAAF should also be buying into the C4I world as well as Network Centric Warfare and Tactical Data Links. It is with these Force Multipliers that ehance the basic capabilities of any Fast Jet.

With regards to Stealth, this really isnt going to be too much of an issue for South Africa. Stealth merely defeats certain Radars, usually in the D or E/F frequency band. Newer Radars as well as Older ones can, with some degree of operator skill see "Stealthy" aircraft. Having worked with the F/A-22 out of Langley in the states, the AWACS can comfortably Paint it using the original Pulse Radar.

As mentioned misille technology has largely surpassed aircraft technology. So unless you have the money of the United States it is important that the 2 isuues are blended as efficiantly as possible. A Typhoon operating the CAPTOR Radar (c120NM) carrying the Meteor missile (80NM) with good AWACS/GCI support will be taking out F/A-22s all day until the AMRAAM (c30NM) is updated. Further it is amazing to watch everyday the F-15C/E based in the UK trying to "surprise" the Typhoons over the North Sea. The Typhoons are yet to be locked up.

I agree that the Gripen is comparible and even superior than most of the F-16 family. Having worked all over Europe the Swedes have held their own in all exercises. You have to question how long support for the F-16 will last though from the States as soon as the F-35 Lightning II arrives.

In conclusion I believe that South Africa has purchased a world class multi role aircraft in the Grippen. It must now however, equip it with modern weapons systems, develop effective modern tactics and hopefully purchase some sort of AEW platform. Whether that be the Erieye from Sweden or something a bit bigger like the Australians B-737 Wedgetail. It is intergrated Air Defence and Air Offence systems that complete the package.
_________________
D R Sharp
Flt Lt
8 Sqn, Surveillance
RAF Waddington
+447825184141

http://saairforce.co.za/forum/viewtopic ... c&start=45

Having worked very recently with Tornado F3 and Typhoons Vs Indian Air Force SU-30s it must not be ignored that the newer Russian designed aircraft are frequently superior to western airframes. Having also fought against the MiG 29 in kosovo they cannot be discounted even when operating F-15's. It was amazing to watch the US run in all directions when a pair of Serb MiG-29s took off. They would raid match at least 4 to 1

Jacobs escreveu:Que engraçado, a SAAF ja tem um vetor poderoso, mas para torná-lo efetivo, precisa de um AEW.

Em comparação, a FAB tem um AEW muito eficiente, mas não possui uma plataforma que consiga tirar 100% de proveito disto. Isso é um paradoxo enfrentado pelas forças aéreas menos desenvolvidas.

The Swedish effectively operate the Gripen in conjuntion with the Erieye AEW & C aircraft. This is far smaller that the E-3 however it has an efficient Radar and higly trained crews. It should be considered that the SAAF should also be buying into the C4I world as well as Network Centric Warfare and Tactical Data Links. It is with these Force Multipliers that ehance the basic capabilities of any Fast Jet

P44 escreveu:

The Swedish effectively operate the Gripen in conjuntion with the Erieye AEW & C aircraft. This is far smaller that the E-3 however it has an efficient Radar and higly trained crews. It should be considered that the SAAF should also be buying into the C4I world as well as Network Centric Warfare and Tactical Data Links. It is with these Force Multipliers that ehance the basic capabilities of any Fast Jet

Tradução livre:

"Os Suecos operam o Grippen em conjunto com o aviaõ Erieye AEW&C. Este é bastante mais pequeno que o E-3, no entanto tem um radar eficiente e tripulações altamente treinadas. Deveria considerar-se que a SAAF deveria entrar no mundo C4I e adquirir Network Centric Warfare [não sei como traduzir isto...] e Links de Dados Tácticos. Este multiplicadores de força permitem expandir as capacidades´básicas de qualquer jacto"

Túlio escreveu:

Jacobs escreveu:Que engraçado, a SAAF ja tem um vetor poderoso, mas para torná-lo efetivo, precisa de um AEW.

Em comparação, a FAB tem um AEW muito eficiente, mas não possui uma plataforma que consiga tirar 100% de proveito disto. Isso é um paradoxo enfrentado pelas forças aéreas menos desenvolvidas.

Engraçado, no texto se menciona o AEW SUECO, que é um turbohélice SAAB, não entendo o paralelo com o turbofan (maior e mais potente) da EMBRAER. Ou falamos de CAÇAS? Para mim, amigo Jacobs, ficou pouco claro o quiseste dizer...

Jolly Roger escreveu:esse topico vai render !!!! aguardem


segundo o texto o F-22 pode ser detectado facilmente pelo AWAC se o mesmo operar em modo pulso radar.. o mesmo podeser feito se o operador deradar for bem treinado.


pelo texto eu tb devo supor que os MKI foram superiores aos Typhoon no ultimo exercicio com os indianos ... certo ???