Fórum Defesa Brasil

'Second nuclear submarine on track'

IANS
Published: August 19, 2009, 23:24

New Delhi: India's second indigenous nuclear-powered submarine will be ready soon and will take less time from launch to induction than the first one, says a retired Indian Navy officer who was associated with the top secret project since its inception.

"The second one will be ready and will take lesser time," Vice-Admiral (retd) Mihir K. Roy said.

Roy, who is now 84, was the first head of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) that was launched in 1984 and guided it during its first four years. He has been involved in all the back room negotiations with the then Soviet Union, which assisted in the project. He is now director of think tank Society for Indian Ocean Studies.

Roy said the disintegration of the Soviet Union in 1991 delayed the ATV project, under which India aimed to initially design and construct three nuclear-powered combat submarines within the country.

The first vessel, INS Arihant, was launched into the waters on July 26. When she is inducted into service after three-years of sea trials, India will become only the sixth country in the world after the United States, Russia, Britain, France and China to be capable of designing and constructing nuclear-powered nuclear submarines.

"We were going fast [on the project]. But there was a long delay. Then the USSR fell and there was tremendous social, political and technological changes in the country. All contracts [on the ATV project] were changed," Roy said.

"In 2004, Russia stabilised and we signed fresh contracts in dollars. Money was a problem for them because they [Russians] were short of dollars," he added.

The Soviet Union had in 1981 offered to help with the design and construction of a nuclear submarine. In 1988, it had also leased a nuclear submarine, INS Chakra, for five years to enable the Indian Navy, its first batch of officers and sailors, in operating such vessels.

The ATV project was made successful by the partnership of the Defence Research and Development Organisation, the Department of Atomic Energy and other public and private sector undertakings.

The project was conceptualised around the same time as those to produce an indigenous light combat aircraft and a main battle tank. Both these projects have suffered heavy cost and time overruns, making the launch of INS Arihant a "historic milestone" for the Indian Navy.

http://www.gulfnews.com/world/India/10341772.html

Roy, who is now 84, was the first head of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) that was launched in 1984 and guided it during its first four years. He has been involved in all the back room negotiations with the then Soviet Union, which assisted in the project. He is now director of think tank Society for Indian Ocean Studies.

Ou seja. Tanto na India como no brasil, só esclerosados emitem opinião.

PERAÍ, O SSN ESTÁ SEM O "N"?
É por isso que a MB não dá passos maiores que suas pernas. Quando lançar nosso SSN, o "N" funcionará, já tendo sido testado em aramar.

Indian Nuclear Sub Running On Empty

August 18, 2009: Last month, India launched its first nuclear
submarine, the INS Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies). This came after
over a decade of planning and construction. But now it's been revealed
that the Arihant was launched without its nuclear reactor, which will
not be ready for another year, or so. No one is saying for sure when
the reactor will be ready. At that point, Arihant will have to go back
into dry dock, be torn open, and have the reactor installed. Or parts
of it, or just the fuel cores. It's unclear exactly what state the
Arihants reactor is in. What is known is that the Arihant cannot move
under its own power (as it has none), and apparently is not equipped
with weapons. Other major systems may also be missing. So why was the
Arihant launched at all? Probably because work on the sub had been
going on for more than a decade, and it was becoming embarrassing to
have nothing to show for all that effort.


Once the Arihant has a working reactor and weapons systems, it will
undergo up to two years of testing and sea trials before being
accepted for service. The Arihant is based on the Russian Charlie II
sub, which it resembles. A leased Russian Akula II nuclear sub will
basically serve as a training boat for India's new nuclear submarine
force. Russia retired all its Charlie class subs in the early 1990s.
India leased one from 1988-91, and gained a great deal of familiarity
with it. The Charlie class had eight launch tubes, outside the
pressure hull, for anti-ship missiles. The Arihant has vertical launch
tubes, apparently large enough for the cruise missiles, but not any
SLBM (Sea Launched Ballistic Missile) India has (like the Sagarika,
which is too long to fit in a vertical silo on the Arihant.) Actually,
the exact purpose of vertical launch tubes on the Arihant is unclear.
The navy revealed very little detail on the new sub (which, until two
years ago, the government refused to say anything about.) Access by
photographers was restricted.


The new Indian SSN was long referred to as the ATV (Advanced
Technology Vessel) class. There are apparently to be five boats in the
class, assuming that the first one works well. The ATV is a 5,000 ton
boat, and comparisons have also been made to the new Chinese 093
(Shang) class, which is a 6,000 ton boat that entered service two
years ago, after more than a decade of construction. That was China's
second class of SSNs. The first, the Han class, was a disaster.


India is trying to learn from Chinas mistakes. That's one reason the
ATV project has been kept so secret. Another reason for the secrecy
was that so much of the ATV project involved developing a compact,
light water reactor technology that would fit in a submarine. This 85
MW reactor makes the Arihant underpowered by the standards of other
SSNs, and the Indians give the Arihant's top speed as 55 kilometers an
hour.


Once the Arihant class SSN is proven, a modified version can be built
as a SSBN (ballistic missile carrying sub). This was how everyone else
did it, including the Chinese. Get an SSN operational, then modify the
design to include some SLBM launch tubes. But the Arihant already
appears to have vertical launch tubes, but not of sufficient diameter
and length to hold any of the SLBM (sea launched ballistic missiles)
in service.

Where There Were None, Now There Is One

August 20, 2009: India's sole aircraft carrier, the 29,000 ton INS Viraat, has completed a 16 month visit to a shipyard, where it was refurbished and upgraded. The Viraat has been in service for half a century, beginning life in 1959 as the HMS Hermes. The ship served in the Royal Navy for 26 years. In 1986 the Hermes was purchased by India and recommissioned as INS Veraat. It underwent several upgrades until it got a major (21 month) refurbishment, that included electronics and engine improvements. The Veraat was to have been joined in 2010 by the refurbished Russian carrier, the 44,000 ton Gorshkov (as the INS Vikramaditya). Under this plan, the INS Viraat was to be retired in 2012, after 53 years service. But now the INS Viraat has had its engine and hull refurbished, and its electronics upgraded, so that it can serve for up to ten years more. That would mean sixty years in service.

Such long service is becoming more common for warships and combat aircraft (like the B-52, Tu-142 and P-3). This is all possible because of advances in engineering and equipment design over the past half century. There are now more reliable techniques and sensors for evaluating the condition of old ships and aircraft. There are new materials and equipment to replace the older stuff and keep the old warriors serving for decade after decade.

Meanwhile, India has agreed to pay more money, and wait longer, to complete the delayed refurbishment of the Russian aircraft carrier Gorshkov. The Russians not only demanded more money, but also admitted that a labor shortage would delay delivery until 2012. Once refurbished, the Gorshkov (INS Vikramaditya), should be good for about 30 years of service. That's because, after the refit, 70 percent of the ships equipment will be new, and the rest refurbished.

India has operated carriers for decades, having initially acquired INS Vikrant from Britain in 1961. Vikrant was decommissioned in 1997. India acquired a second carrier, also from Britain, the Viraat, in 1986. When it enters service in 2012, the Vikramaditya will operate sixteen navalized MiG-29 fighters, plus some helicopters.

India is also building a 42,000 ton carrier, or Air Defense Ship (ADS) and will begin construction of a second one once the first one is launched. The first ADS ship is expected to enter service in 2012, and the second one in 2017. Each ADS ship will have a similar aircraft complement to the Vikramaditya.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htnava ... 90820.aspx

Marino escreveu:PERAÍ, O SSN ESTÁ SEM O "N"?
É por isso que a MB não dá passos maiores que suas pernas. Quando lançar nosso SSN, o "N" funcionará, já tendo sido testado em aramar.

Indian Nuclear Sub Running On Empty

August 18, 2009: Last month, India launched its first nuclear
submarine, the INS Arihant (Destroyer of Enemies). This came after
over a decade of planning and construction. But now it's been revealed
that the Arihant was launched without its nuclear reactor, which will
not be ready for another year, or so. No one is saying for sure when
the reactor will be ready. At that point, Arihant will have to go back
into dry dock, be torn open, and have the reactor installed. Or parts
of it, or just the fuel cores. It's unclear exactly what state the
Arihants reactor is in. What is known is that the Arihant cannot move
under its own power (as it has none), and apparently is not equipped
with weapons. Other major systems may also be missing. So why was the
Arihant launched at all? Probably because work on the sub had been
going on for more than a decade, and it was becoming embarrassing to
have nothing to show for all that effort.


Once the Arihant has a working reactor and weapons systems, it will
undergo up to two years of testing and sea trials before being
accepted for service. The Arihant is based on the Russian Charlie II
sub, which it resembles. A leased Russian Akula II nuclear sub will
basically serve as a training boat for India's new nuclear submarine
force. Russia retired all its Charlie class subs in the early 1990s.
India leased one from 1988-91, and gained a great deal of familiarity
with it. The Charlie class had eight launch tubes, outside the
pressure hull, for anti-ship missiles. The Arihant has vertical launch
tubes, apparently large enough for the cruise missiles, but not any
SLBM (Sea Launched Ballistic Missile) India has (like the Sagarika,
which is too long to fit in a vertical silo on the Arihant.) Actually,
the exact purpose of vertical launch tubes on the Arihant is unclear.
The navy revealed very little detail on the new sub (which, until two
years ago, the government refused to say anything about.) Access by
photographers was restricted.


The new Indian SSN was long referred to as the ATV (Advanced
Technology Vessel) class. There are apparently to be five boats in the
class, assuming that the first one works well. The ATV is a 5,000 ton
boat, and comparisons have also been made to the new Chinese 093
(Shang) class, which is a 6,000 ton boat that entered service two
years ago, after more than a decade of construction. That was China's
second class of SSNs. The first, the Han class, was a disaster.


India is trying to learn from Chinas mistakes. That's one reason the
ATV project has been kept so secret. Another reason for the secrecy
was that so much of the ATV project involved developing a compact,
light water reactor technology that would fit in a submarine. This 85
MW reactor makes the Arihant underpowered by the standards of other
SSNs, and the Indians give the Arihant's top speed as 55 kilometers an
hour.


Once the Arihant class SSN is proven, a modified version can be built
as a SSBN (ballistic missile carrying sub). This was how everyone else
did it, including the Chinese. Get an SSN operational, then modify the
design to include some SLBM launch tubes. But the Arihant already
appears to have vertical launch tubes, but not of sufficient diameter
and length to hold any of the SLBM (sea launched ballistic missiles)
in service.

indaguei acerca desta noticia no forum keypublishings aqui está a resposta:

It is the jurno head which is empty here , he needs to visit the shrink

The reactor is inside the submarine and after land based checks on submarine system and subsystem the reactor will go critical which will happen in a month or two, presently the source of power is external as systems are being checked

Não postei a fonte.
Foi daqui:
http://groups.google.com/group/noticiar ... a323ab6d8f

Marino escreveu:Não postei a fonte.
Foi daqui:
http://groups.google.com/group/noticiar ... a323ab6d8f

Caro Marino
se quiseres rebater:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpo ... stcount=37

a resposta postada acima é do "Austin", pelo que leio dos posts dele parece ser alguém bem informado

P44 escreveu:

Marino escreveu:PERAÍ, O SSN ESTÁ SEM O "N"?
É por isso que a MB não dá passos maiores que suas pernas. Quando lançar nosso SSN, o "N" funcionará, já tendo sido testado em aramar.


indaguei acerca desta noticia no forum keypublishings aqui está a resposta:

Então foi a imprensa indiana que comeu poeira nessa reportagem. Se o reator do sub só irá atingir estado crítico após os testes de solo com o protótipo então ok.

Senão seria um mico maior do que o que está acontecendo com o Gorshkov/Vikramaditya

É, esse estória de SSN sem reator é realmente estranha demais, até para a imprensa indiana, prodigiosa em fantasias.

Carlos Mathias escreveu:É, esse estória de SSN sem reator é realmente estranha demais, até para a imprensa indiana, prodigiosa em fantasias.

O problema da Imprensa indiana, é que apesar de ter muita gente competente para escrecver sobre defesa eles sofrem de um nacionalismo exacerbado, os sistemas de armas indianos são sempre místicos.., já os do Brasil... parecem em certos momentos um bando de quinta-colunas.

Exatamente, aqui o povo bate até em M-4 Sherman de museu.

Viraat refit done, but where are the jets?

Rajat Pandit, TNN 23 August 2009, 02:50am IST


NEW DELHI: As it is, India solitary aircraft carrier, the 50-year-old
INS Viraat, is being flogged to ensure it can operate for another five
years. To make matters worse, Navy is fast running out of fighter jets
to operate from its deck.


This is just another example of how the utter lack of long-term
strategic planning and execution continues to be a bane for India,
which harbours notions of being a major player on the global stage.


The crash of another Sea Harrier jump-jet off Goa on Friday, which
killed its pilot, means Navy is left with barely eight single-seater
fighters and three twin-seater trainers.


Beginning 1983, Navy had inducted around 30 Sea Harriers, which take
off from the angled ski-jump on INS Viraat and land vertically on its
deck. But it has lost over half of them in accidents.


The remaining have undergone a "limited upgrade'' under a Rs 477-crore
project, which includes Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multi-mode fire control
radar and Derby beyond visual range air-to-air missiles.


The latest crash comes at a time when the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat is
finally getting ready to become operational again after an 18-month
extensive refit to boost its longevity as well as weapon and sensor
packages, as reported earlier.


"A carrier without fighters is like a tiger without teeth,'' said a
senior officer. Incidentally, as per earlier plans, both INS Viraat
and its Sea Harriers were to be junked by this time.


But the plans were revised since the Navy wanted two fully-operational
"carrier battle groups'' (CBGs), with their own complements of
fighters, by 2009 to project force as well as act as a "stabilising
influence'' in the entire Indian Ocean and beyond.


CBGs or "carrier strike groups'', with a complement of guided-missile
destroyers, multi-purpose frigates, attack submarines and tankers,
after all project power like nothing else. The US, for instance, has
12 CBGs deployed around the globe as a crucial ingredient of its power
projection policy.


But repeated failures of successive Indian governments to take timely
decisions has put paid to all such plans. For one, the refurbished
44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov, undergoing a refit at the Sevmash
Shipyard in North Russia, will be available to the Navy only by 2013
at the earliest now.


For another, the 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) being
built at Cochin Shipyard, will be ready only by 2015-2016 after
meandering through political and bureaucratic apathy for several
years.


Navy, of course, will soon start getting the 16 MiG-29Ks contracted in
the original $1.5-billion Gorshkov package deal signed with Russia in
January 2004, under which the carrier refit cost was pegged at $974
million.


India and Russia, however, are still enmeshed in renegotiating
Gorshkov's final refit cost, with Moscow demanding as much as $2.9
billion and India keen on shelling out around $2.2 billion.


The acquisition of another 29 MiG-29Ks for around Rs 5,380 crore is
also on the cards, especially since both Gorshkov and IAC will require
these fighters when they are ready to enter service.

Marino escreveu:Viraat refit done, but where are the jets?

Rajat Pandit, TNN 23 August 2009, 02:50am IST


NEW DELHI: As it is, India solitary aircraft carrier, the 50-year-old
INS Viraat, is being flogged to ensure it can operate for another five
years. To make matters worse, Navy is fast running out of fighter jets
to operate from its deck.


This is just another example of how the utter lack of long-term
strategic planning and execution continues to be a bane for India,
which harbours notions of being a major player on the global stage.


The crash of another Sea Harrier jump-jet off Goa on Friday, which
killed its pilot, means Navy is left with barely eight single-seater
fighters and three twin-seater trainers.


Beginning 1983, Navy had inducted around 30 Sea Harriers, which take
off from the angled ski-jump on INS Viraat and land vertically on its
deck. But it has lost over half of them in accidents.


The remaining have undergone a "limited upgrade'' under a Rs 477-crore
project, which includes Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multi-mode fire control
radar and Derby beyond visual range air-to-air missiles.


The latest crash comes at a time when the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat is
finally getting ready to become operational again after an 18-month
extensive refit to boost its longevity as well as weapon and sensor
packages, as reported earlier.


"A carrier without fighters is like a tiger without teeth,'' said a
senior officer. Incidentally, as per earlier plans, both INS Viraat
and its Sea Harriers were to be junked by this time.


But the plans were revised since the Navy wanted two fully-operational
"carrier battle groups'' (CBGs), with their own complements of
fighters, by 2009 to project force as well as act as a "stabilising
influence'' in the entire Indian Ocean and beyond.


CBGs or "carrier strike groups'', with a complement of guided-missile
destroyers, multi-purpose frigates, attack submarines and tankers,
after all project power like nothing else. The US, for instance, has
12 CBGs deployed around the globe as a crucial ingredient of its power
projection policy.


But repeated failures of successive Indian governments to take timely
decisions has put paid to all such plans. For one, the refurbished
44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov, undergoing a refit at the Sevmash
Shipyard in North Russia, will be available to the Navy only by 2013
at the earliest now.


For another, the 40,000-tonne indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC) being
built at Cochin Shipyard, will be ready only by 2015-2016 after
meandering through political and bureaucratic apathy for several
years.


Navy, of course, will soon start getting the 16 MiG-29Ks contracted in
the original $1.5-billion Gorshkov package deal signed with Russia in
January 2004, under which the carrier refit cost was pegged at $974
million.


India and Russia, however, are still enmeshed in renegotiating
Gorshkov's final refit cost, with Moscow demanding as much as $2.9
billion and India keen on shelling out around $2.2 billion.


The acquisition of another 29 MiG-29Ks for around Rs 5,380 crore is
also on the cards, especially since both Gorshkov and IAC will require
these fighters when they are ready to enter service.

Acontece nas melhores famílias, mas perder 50% da força operativa em tempos de paz é dose.

E depois aparece um monte dizendo que temos que ser como eles. Que eles estão na nossa frente, que a Mb deveria se mexer.......!

É soda!!!!!!