Fórum Defesa Brasil

PRick escreveu:

orestespf escreveu:

Você não entendeu, o autor da foto, apenas deixou claro o Rafale é a mais nova maravilha humana, a primeira foram as Pirâmides.

[ ]´s

brisa escreveu:Prick, pra mim colocaram cachaca na sua perrier

German F-4s were upgraded in the early 90s with APG-65 radar, AMRAAM capability, new RWR, new IFF and improved avionics. Despite their age, they remain capable and credible fighters.

Last month, German F-4s even downed a least one French Rafale in mock combat during exercice "Frisian Flag". Not bad for a 50 years old design... Pic of the "Rafale Eater" (look on the air intake).
Btw, there is a good article about Luftwaffe F-4Fs in this month's issue of Air Forces Monthly titled "German Phantoms - Still Going Strong".

brisa escreveu:

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Mas esse avião aí não é ruim de aerodinâmica não. Basta ver que mesmo com motores mais fracos que os atuais conseguia chegar a mach 2 fácil.

E quantos F-4 o Rafale abateu? Nenhum?

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Mas esse avião aí não é ruim de aerodinâmica não. Basta ver que mesmo com motores mais fracos que os atuais conseguia chegar a mach 2 fácil.

E quantos F-4 o Rafale abateu? Nenhum?

PRick escreveu:
Como ocorreu num exercício em que F-15, F-16 e Rafales tomaram parte, o resultado não foi revelado, mais as declarações dos pilotos deixaram as coisa bem entendidas.

knigh7 escreveu:

PRick escreveu:
Como ocorreu num exercício em que F-15, F-16 e Rafales tomaram parte, o resultado não foi revelado, mais as declarações dos pilotos deixaram as coisa bem entendidas.

PRick,

Estou curioso sobre as declarações dos piloos. Você pode dar um indicativo de onde estão, ou pelo menos alguns dados para eu procurar na net?

Atenciosamente

Obvious advantage

During their stay, each pilot flew several missions every
day and, for all Mirage 2000 and F-16 aircrews involved,
the exercise was their first encounter with the Rafale.
Needless to say, they were all impressed by the latest Dassault fighter. « In a dogfight, using only our guns and short range missiles, it is indeed very difficult for a
Mirage 2000 pilot to win the day against a Rafale, admits
Commandant Jean-Roch Piselli, t h e ‘ B o s s ’ o f E C 1 / 5
Detachment. Considering the imposed rules of engagement
during the first phase of the exercise, our only real opportunity was to fire first, just after the crossover. Even though the Mirage 2000 is equipped with
notoriously effective fly-bywire controls, it does not offer
the same level of performance in terms of manoeuvrability
a n d e n g i n e t h r u s t a n d response. We have to select full afterburner as soon as the fight begins while the Rafale pilot can throttle back and even remain in full dry, military power: we burn more fuel and our infrared signature is significantly higher whereas he can eaccelerate very rapidly if needed. » Flottille 12F was declared fully operational in June 2004, and the Rafale pilots now perfectly know how to handle their aircraft
to quickly win the fight: « we always devise a ‘game
plan’ to exploit both the Rafale’s fantastic acceleration and its outstanding agility, explains Lieutenant-Commander Pascal Cassan. Against a F-16, the
Rafale is more powerful in the whole flight envelope, and is
considerably more manoeuvrable below 300 knots.
Ideally, after the crossover, I will climb into the sun to force him to slow down. I will constantly threaten him by pointing the Rafale’s nose in his direction. That will force him to tighten his turn even more, and his speed
will wash out very rapidly. On the contrary, the F-16 pilots
will do what they can to keep their speed and energy up. »
Numerous ‘beyond visual range’ (BVR) engagements
were simulated during the week, and the Rafale proved
as deadly in the long-range arena as in a dogfight: « I think that our RBE2 electronic scanning radar is very good, indicates Lieutenant Le Bars. Against a F-15 or a F-16, two aircraft types that have enormous radar cross-sections because of their massive airintakes, our detection ranges are excellent. In a BVR scenario,
we always try to engage at high level and fire our lethal
Mica missiles at high altitude to give them the longest possible range. Ideally, we will ‘loft’ the radar-guided Micas
to boost their range before diving down to low level while
simultaneously opening left or right. In doing so, we deny the opponent any opportunity to fire back. When in the ‘merge’, we quickly gain the upper hand against a F-16: with our large delta wing and our canard foreplanes, we have considerably more authority in pitch and we can turn more tightly, the Rafale offering better sustained turn rates than the F-16 at low, medium and high levels.
Our Snecma M88-2 turbofans are so powerful that we often have to reduce power to avoid overtaking our prey.»
All participants agreed that this first edition of the Flottille
12F Air Defence Week was a total success. Flottille 12F specialists are already busy preparing the 2007 event
which should attract a larger foreign contingent. By July
2007, the first four Standard F2 omnirole Rafale fighters
will be in service with the unit, and they are likely to participate in the exercise too.

Plinio Jr escreveu:Os Rafales viraram os drones mais caros do mundo..... , mas não tem problema, afinal de contas os franceses são fregueses de carterinha nos embates aéreos contra os chucrutes....

Santiago escreveu:

Plinio Jr escreveu:Os Rafales viraram os drones mais caros do mundo..... , mas não tem problema, afinal de contas os franceses são fregueses de carterinha nos embates aéreos contra os chucrutes....

Como andam os problemas do Rafale? Que bomba...
Ainda bem que a FAB vai testar as aeronaves, ao inves de comprar diretamente como alguns aqui desejam.

Problems
Electronic Aviation
http://www.electronicaviation.com/aircr ... Rafale/819


The Rafale is an almost unparallelled achievement for a single nation, as equivalent fighter programmes have been undertaken by much larger companies or collaboratively by several nations. As an aircraft to meet French requirements (combining a robust carrier capability and good air-to-ground potential) Rafale could not be bettered, while the programme's unilateral nature afforded great focus, and protected it from many of the political factors which have so dogged the rival Eurofighter. Any problems (and those listed here are disputed) should be viewed in this light.

There have, however, been increasingly critical comments about Rafale from members of the National Assembly's Finance and Defence Commissions, and there have been reports of disagreements between Dassault and DGA about cost increases and obsolescence. According to Defence Analysis (p.17, Vol 8.No.12 December 2005) Dassault have called the RBE2 radar 'fatally flawed' alleging that its range was "inadequate" and averring that the Rafale therefore relied on AWACS support to overcome this. The DGA also described Rafale's OSF ("Optronique Secteur Frontal") as "obsolescent" and production has been cut back to just 48 units, rather than the planned number, which was to have been sufficient to equip all F1 and F2 versions.

While UK and German newspapers have been energetic in their criticism of Typhoon, Rafale has enjoyed a much gentler ride, and many of Rafale's problems (which have been similar in nature, scope and extent to those suffered by the rival Eurofighter) have seldom emerged until long after they were solved, or remain unsubstantiated rumour, though there have been exceptions. According to Defense News, Air Force Gen. Eric Rouzaud revealed that early deliveries of the Rafale were prone to a software glitch that cut out part of the flight system, requiring the pilot to hit the reset button. The fault has been fixed, Rouzaud said.

There were reports that problems with the "Central Processor" led to only three of five Rafales being delivered during 2004, and suggestions that the same problem led to a shortfall of deliveries (against the planned schedule) in 2005.

There was a two year delay in signing the production contract for the 59 F2 standard Rafales, and the order due to be placed in 2006 has dropped from 82 aircraft (65 AdlA, 17 Aéronavale) to just 66 (48 AdlA, 18 Aéronavale) (according to the Vincon Senate report). The Pintat report indicated that this reduced order has also been slipped to 2007.

Still subject to delays, the Rafale (once progressing well ahead of the rival Eurofighter) has still not entered full operational service with the Armée de l'Air, and less than a dozen are in use with the French Air Force for trials, evaluation and conversion training with EC330. Though the aircraft entered operational service with the Aéronavale in 2004 Flotille 12 still has only 9 Rafales (less than a full Flotille) and is currently limited to Air-to-Air combat (F1 software/hardware standard). There are concerns that operational loads (especially in the long range air to surface role) will be limited by the present engine's relatively modest thrust.

A "Post F3" configuration is now being discussed, this will be fitted with an active array radar, which is necessary to fully exploit the MBDA Meteor.

More controversially, some sources (including Francis Tusa's industry newsletter, Defence Analysis) maintain that the aircraft compares unfavourably with Eurofighter's Typhoon in the air to air role, though this is vigorously denied in other quarters. Though it uses a modern and extremely efficient canard Delta configuration, Rafale has been accused of being hampered by an old fashioned and 'cumbersome' Man Machine Interface, and it has been further suggested that this was the main reason behind the type's rejection by South Korea and Singapore.

According to Defence Analysis and Flight Daily News, the Singapore evaluation also reportedly revealed problems with Rafale's reliability and availability, and that the aircraft failed to demonstrate claimed radar performance or its claimed ability to supercruise. Singapore was also reportedly unimpressed by Rafale's much vaunted "Omni role" capability. "Show us, properly" was said to have been the reaction, according to Defence Analysis. The lack of official comment by Singapore leads many to dismiss such criticism as unreliable hearsay, however.

If criticism of under-powered engines and the passive electron-scan radar (which Defence Analysis say is viewed by many as a technological dead end) is to be overcome, Dassault badly need to fund the advanced F3 variant, but this is unlikely to happen quickly without an export customer (according to Aviation Week and Space Technology). A fully-developed F3 would, however, seem much more likely to gain export success. In January 2005 it was announced that eight aircraft would be cut from French orders specifically to free up funding for advanced radar development, while Meteor integration is also being accelerated.

Whatever Rafale's supposed "weaknesses" it must be acknowledged that the type has been quietly gathering real operational experience in the air-to-air role since the first Rafale Ms were delivered to the Aéronavale, and this alone is a significant advantage, giving the type great credibility. Moreover, while development of some competing aircraft has often been delayed because manufacturers have been unwilling to press ahead "at risk" the relationship between Dassault and the French government and military has allowed the development programme to press ahead at a ferocious pace.

brisa escreveu:Prick, favor colocar suas fuentes
Esse negocio de que ha relatos....os problemas sao pinto....etc etc
Sem querer ser o Degan.....pero quiero las fuentes jaaaa