Marinha Indiana

[luis F. Silva]

P 44 escreveu:

mas tu és comuna a tua opinião não conta, queremos ouvir tal afirmação de alguém imparcial

Não há...Ou estão de um lado ou de outro

[Bolovo]

É mesmo? Ma fala mais, se quiser, por MP então.

EDITADO

EU LI! EU LI!!!

[Carlos Mathias]

Fica quieto cabeça!!!!!

[felipexion]

Eu gosto dessas histórias do Walter.
Tem mais para contar não????

[P44]

Russian Navy to commission Nerpa submarine in fall



MOSCOW, June 2 (RIA Novosti) - A nuclear attack submarine involved in a fatal accident during sea trials last year will be commissioned by the Russian Navy in the fall and then leased to the Indian Navy, a source said on Tuesday.

The Nerpa nuclear-powered submarine was undergoing sea trials in the Sea of Japan on November 8 last year when its on-board fire safety system went off, releasing deadly gas into the sleeping quarters. Three submariners and 17 shipyard workers were killed. There were 208 people, 81 of them submariners, on board the vessel at the time.

"Following new official state sea trials in the summer, the sub will be put in service with the Navy in the fall of this year," the Russian naval source said.

He added that the Nerpa would be leased to the Indian Navy shortly after the commissioning, and said India had paid over $500 million for a 10-year lease of the 12,000-ton nuclear attack submarine.

Indian media have reported that the construction of the vessel was partially financed by the country's government.

The construction of the Akula II class Nerpa nuclear attack submarine started in 1991, but was suspended for over a decade due to a lack of funding.

Akula II class vessels are considered the quietest and deadliest of all Russian nuclear-powered attack submarines.

India is one of the main buyers of Russian weaponry, with contracts including the delivery of Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier with at least 16 MiG-29K Fulcrum-D carrier fighters, the Smerch MLRS, and licensed production of T-90 tanks in India.

Russia signed in March last year a contract with the Indian Defense Ministry to upgrade around 70 MiG-29 fighters, in service since the 1980s, and agreed to develop a fifth-generation fighter together with India.

Russia and India jointly developed the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, whose sea-based and land-based versions have been successfully tested and put into service with the Indian army and navy.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090602/155144687.html

[Junker]

Russian nuclear subs for India - one or two?
Rajiv Singh
23 June 2009

Moscow: A senior Russian government official has dismissed media rumours that his country planned to lease several nuclear submarines to India. According to a media report, the official said that the contract envisioned transfer of only the 'Nerpa' vessel.

The 12,000-ton K-152 'Nerpa' is a Schucka-B class (NATO: Akula-II) nuclear attack submarine meant for lease to the Indian Navy for a period of ten years. The submarine was left unfinished with the collapse of the erstwhile Soviet Union and was subsequently completed with Indian funds.

"We will lease only one submarine. In my opinion, India needs the sub more for enhancing its prestige rather than for accomplishing specific goals," Vyacheslav Dzirkaln, deputy head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, reportedly said in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.

The comment by the deputy head of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation runs completely counter to the comment reportedly made by the head of the same organisation in mid-December 2008. (See: Russia to lease "several" Shchucka-B nuclear attack submarines to India)

"Yes, there is a real possibility of leasing for ten years several of our nuclear powered multi-role submarines of Project 971 of 'Shchucka-B' class," the Director of Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSVTS) Mikhail Dmitriyev was quoted as saying by ITAR-TASS in that mid-December report.

The same report also quoted officials as saying that the Nerpa (to be inducted into the Indian Navy as INS Chakra) would provide a quantum jump to India's naval capabilities, which is now sought to be contradicted by this report.

The Nerpa suffered a serious accident on 8 November 2008 while undergoing sea trials in the Sea of Japan. Three submariners and 17 shipyard workers were killed

According to Russian navy officials, sea trials will resume in early July and the submarine is scheduled to be delivered to India by the end of 2009.

The Schucka-B class vessels are considered the quietest and deadliest of all Russian nuclear-powered attack submarines, virtually at par with the best the likes of the United States Navy have to offer.

The Akula purchase

Earlier reports in the Russian media, going as far back as the summer of 1998, spoke of an Indian Navy delegation visiting the Russian Navy's Northern Fleet's Schucka-B/Akula submarine base and expressing an interest in the November of that year for possible purchase of two of these submarines.

The request was followed up on by then Russian defence minister Igor Sergeev on his visit to New Delhi in March 1999. Reports indicated that at this point of time the Russians brought up the issue of completing the unfinished hulls of two Schucka-B/Akula subs with Indian funding. These would have been the Nerpa and the Gepard with the first of the Schucka-B/Akula II class, the Vepr, already being commissioned in 1995.

Details were never released but it was understood that the subs would be given out on lease as then Russian laws did not allow export of such sensitive items as nuclear submarines. There was also the problem of keeping American and Chinese sensitivities in mind as both nations were bound to cry foul if the Russians announced the lease or sale of these submarines.

It will have to be kept in mind that in 1999 Russia was at a particularly vulnerable juncture of its national development, post the collapse of the Soviet Union and was not interested in raising hackles of any country, particularly the Chinese or the Americans.

1999, incidentally, was also the year when the Indian government decide to hike funding for its indigenous nuclear submarine, the Advanced Technology Vehicle (ATV) programme, to about $10 billion with guaranteed funding for its entire duration.

From this period onwards, as far as the sale/lease of the Schucka-B/Akula submarines to the Indian Navy was concerned, no further details were available.

A 2006 analysis by a Russian business journal took a look at the announcements made by the Russian defence ministry regarding its annual revenues for the year 2005 and spotted a discrepancy that could only be explained if the Indians should have paid out money for the construction of two and not one Schucka-B submarine.

Around the same time, to confuse matters even further, reports began to circulate that India had paid $650 million for the 10-year lease of a single Schucka-B.

Very likely, as has happened with all contracts signed in the period 1998-2004, the contract for the Akulas - should it be for twins - would now be hanging fire with the Russians determined to negotiate a higher price for completion and subsequent lease of the second submarine than was earlier committed to.

A discrete silence from the New Delhi may be indicative of its desire not to reveal its 'blue water' strategies, before the means to deliver them should fructify.

With the Chinese navy (PLAN) already fielding a large nuclear submarine force, which allows it to extend operations to the Indian Ocean region with ease, the Indian Navy needs not just a token presence of a single nuclear submarine but also the comfort of numbers.

It's not certain when the indigenous ATV ''baby boomers'' are likely to slip into the water. It is also not certain if it's a single ATV hull that has been laid down at the Vizag yard or two. What is certain is that the Indian Navy needs a nuclear submarine force in numbers soon, given the dramatic turnaround in the capabilities of the Chinese Navy and the rise in strategic importance of the Indian Ocean Region (IOR).

All of the world's high and medium intensity conflicts are located in this strategic area, including the American-led Global War on Terror (GWOT). Given the incredible rise in the price and importance of petroleum and the massive amount of shipping tonnage that is now criss-crossing IOR waters the region has assumed significance previously accorded only to the Atlantic seaboard at the peak of the Cold War.

It has been noted, particularly with the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier affair that the Russians let their intentions to re-negotiate existing contracts be known through inspired media reports. It has also been noted that after a period of silence, and denial, New Delhi is then forced to acknowledge the troubles they are faced with regard to a particular 'Russian,' contract.

Such tactics may have resulted in prices of Russian contracts being revised upwards, but they has also seen a significant erosion in the Russian domination of the Indian defence market as the Indian defence establishment is now making it a point to source ever larger portions of their requirements from non-Russian sources.

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general ... eView.html

[Carlos Mathias]

The Schucka-B class vessels are considered the quietest and deadliest of all Russian nuclear-powered attack submarines, virtually at par with the best the likes of the United States Navy have to offer.

NÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃÃO!!!!!!!
FOGUEIRA PRÁ ESSE HEREGE!!!!

[P44]

apoiado, como ousam comparar esses montes de lixo e ferrugem, com os supra-sumo-hiper-mega-fixe-star and stripes-divinos-reis do universo e mais além??????


forca já

[cabeça de martelo]

apoiado, como ousam comparar esses montes de lixo e ferrugem, com os supra-sumo-hiper-mega-fixe-star and stripes-divinos-reis do universo e mais além??????


forca já

Apoiado...

[Carlos Mathias]

Só vocês prá me animar com essa gripe féla da pota...

[JLRC]

apoiado, como ousam comparar esses montes de lixo e ferrugem, com os supra-sumo-hiper-mega-fixe-star and stripes-divinos-reis do universo e mais além??????


forca já

Apoiado...

Apoiado!!! Morte aos gringos Como? Os hereges não eram os gringos? Então quem ia para a forca? Os malvados castelhanos? Também não? Então quem é o herege? Já sei, se foi o Pzinho a escrever só pode ser o Sócrates ou o Vieira. Agora acertei?

PS: Os gringos acabam de marcar o 2.º golo aos pérfidos castelhanos. Nunca me passou pela cabeça que um dia ainda ia apoiar uma equipa norte-americana . Os espanhóis com a sua habitual arrogância já antecipavam uma final Brasil-Espanha e afinal vão borda fora.

[Paisano]

Apoiado...

Apoiado!!! Morte aos gringos Como? Os hereges não eram os gringos? Então quem ia para a forca? Os malvados castelhanos? Também não? Então quem é o herege? Já sei, se foi o Pzinho a escrever só pode ser o Sócrates ou o Vieira. Agora acertei?

PS: Os gringos acabam de marcar o 2.º golo aos pérfidos castelhanos. Nunca me passou pela cabeça que um dia ainda ia apoiar uma equipa norte-americana . Os espanhóis com a sua habitual arrogância já antecipavam uma final Brasil-Espanha e afinal vão borda fora.

Facista e Monarquista!!!

[JLRC]

Facista e Monarquista!!!

Non, non, Paisanão, anarquista. Adoro avacalhar, anarcalhar ou o que quizeres chamar

PS: Monarquista é o Cabeça que queria dar uma dentada na Letizia

[P44]

dar uma dentada na Letizia arrisca-se a partir um dente ou mais, aquilo é só ossos...

ps-VCR, já que abardinaste o tópico, não te esqueças de dia 3 de julho votar on DR. BRANCO!



vieirista de treta...

[JLRC]

Bom, vamos lá recuperar o tópico :

India, Russia may agree Admiral Gorshkov cost by Aug. - paper

14:1705/06/2009

NEW DELHI, June 5 (RIA Novosti) - India and Russia could reach a final agreement by the end of July on the cost of overhauling the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier to be delivered to the Indian navy, the Hindu newspaper said on Friday.

The original $1.5 billion 2004 contract between Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Navy, which includes the delivery of MiG-29K Fulcrum carrier-based fighters, envisioned that work on the aircraft carrier would be completed in 2008.

However, Russia later claimed it had underestimated the scale and the cost of the modernization, and demanded an additional $1.4 billion, which New Delhi said was "exorbitant."

A joint Indian-Russian working group met last week in Moscow to start preparing a revised agreement on the Admiral Gorshkov (future INS Vikramaditya) by the end of July.

The Hindu said that "although a final price tag is yet to be determined, Indian officials familiar with negotiations said on Thursday that the eventual figure would be closer to the $2.2 billion estimate."

The aircraft carrier is currently docked at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia, with over 2,000 workers carrying out repairs.

According to the paper, the Indian delegation led by Defense Secretary Vijay Singh has asked Russia to ensure delivery of the aircraft carrier by December 2012.

The Admiral Gorshkov carrier is to replace India's INS Viraat carrier, which, although currently operational, is now 50 years old.

After modernization, the carrier is expected to be seaworthy for 30 years.

http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20090605/155176052.html

Fragatas do Projecto 17A

India has cleared its largest ever indigenous defence contract worth Rs 45,000 crore to manufacture seven advanced stealth frigates for the Navy at shipyards in Kolkata and Mumbai.

The P17A warship project, which will be India’s most advanced and stealthy frigates, has been cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) on Friday.

Sources said that brushing aside a request by the Navy that two of the indigenously designed frigates may be manufactured abroad, the DAC has decided that all seven warships will be manufactured in India by the Mazagon Dock Limited, Mumbai (MDL) and the Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE), Kolkata.

The Defence Ministry has allocated a budget of Rs 45,000 crore for the project and the work will be divided between the two shipyards. The P17A frigates will be even more advanced than the P17 Shivalik class warships that are currently being inducted by the Navy.

For those keeping scores at home, it's around $10 billion for 7 ships or around $1.4 billion per ship. This is an increase over the original announcement in 2006 that put the price tag of each ship at around $900 million. I think India has had some experiences recently with cost escalations in naval projects. They want to make sure to allocate all the necessary funding, so that it does not have cost overrun this time.

To put this into perspective:
A 054A costs around $200-250 million depending on the conversion rate.
I think Singapore paid $1 billion for 6 Formidable class ships back in early 2000s, although that only includes the ToT, weapon systems and the first unit.
The first batch of Talwar cost $1 billion for 3
The second batch of Talwar cost $1.6 billion for 3 (although a lot of that is due to USD depreciation)
The Project 17 Shivalik class apparently costs $650 million each
The most recent order of 4 FREMM class by Italy cost 1.4 billion EUR -> 350 million EUR per or about 500 million USD depending on the conversion we use.
The entire horizon class program cost around $4 billion for 4 ships
KDX-3 is around $900 million
The 6 Type-45 destroyers cost UK 6.46 billion pound, which is anywhere from 8 to 10 billion USD depending on the conversion rate.

It looks like the going rate for a modern stealthy frigate with medium range air defense and good ASW capabilities is around $500 million. The going rate for a larger AAW ship with area defense is around $1 to 1.5 billion.

With the price that India is willing to pay for these 7 ships, it should turn out to be a very capable ship. If you look at the specifications of Shivalik class, its weapon and sensor fit is similar to your average modern frigate like the La Fayette derivatives, Talwar and 054A. $650 million looks to be more than what the other countries paid for comparable frigates, but I think part of the cost goes toward improving Indian shipyard to be able to handle such projects in the future. With more than double the cost, Project 17A looks like it will be a whole different beast. Just looking at the price tag alone, it looks to be an AAW ship with long range SAM and Aegis like combat system. On the other hand, I kept reading Indian sources that said this ship will only be around 5600 ton in displacement. That would make sense because larger Project 17A class would intrude in the territories of Project 15A, which is in the 7000 ton range. Even now, it seems that Project 15A is really not that relevant when the smaller Project 17A might turn out to do the same job much better. So, I think it would be interesting to see what Project 17A turn out to be. If it turns out to be like Horizon class or AAW version of FREMM, it would be well worth the money after we factor in higher than projected inflation, cost of upgrading the shipyards, transfer of technology and such. However, if it turns out to just be a more powerful version of Project 17, I think they are really paying far too much for these ships.

http://www.informationdissemination.net ... -navy.html