Fórum Defesa Brasil

Carlos, a vantagem do Spyder é que pode ser um sistema na casa dos 15-20km, chegando a 30-40km... ou seja, o mesmo sistema é de curto e médio alcance. Além disso é Fire and Forget, fazendo com que inúmeros alvos possam ser enganjados ao mesmo tempo.

Mas os problemas em relação ao TOR e ao PANTSYR é a mobilidade e o problema do custo dos mísseis. A margem torna-se negativa a medida que uma bomba burra equipada com um kit para transformá-la inteligente é bem mais barato que qualquer Python V ou Derby.

É o que eu falei anteriormente, já fui mto fã do sistema, mas ter a cabeça boa e humildade me fizeram perceber que esse sistema não era o ideal para o nosso país.

Abraços

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Conversa com o Zero sobre isso. Ele já foi o maior defensor deste sistema aqui no DB, mas acho que ele mudou de opinião em favor do Pantsir-S.

ZeRo4 escreveu:Eu era e ainda sou fã do Spyder, é um excelente sistema, principalmente por ser fire and forget... mas o problema do Spyder é que acaba se tornando um sistema relativamente caro já que o Python V e o Derby são muito mais caros que qualquer míssil guiado por CLOS.

Defence
SA Hopes Brazil Will Join Another Missile Project

Picture by: Denel
HITTING THE MARKET: Test launch of an Umkhonto-IRRelated articles
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By: Keith Campbell
Published: 17 Oct 08 - 0:00
A Brazilian report has stated that South Africa's State-owned defence industrial group Denel is proposing that the Brazilian Navy cooperate with it in the development of the radar-guided version of Denel Dynamics' Umkhonto naval surface-to-air missile (SAM), designated Umkhonto-R. If so, this would parallel the current cooperation between Denel Dynamics and the Brazilian Air Force in the development of the A-Darter air-to-air missile. It is known that Denel is seeking to widen its cooperation with Brazil, with Unmanned Air Vehicles likely to be the next area of partnership. The Brazilian and South African Navies will start high-level staff talks late next month (November) and it is believed that this would provide the ideal opportunity for the South African Navy to lobby the Brazilians to join the Umkhonto-R programme.
The original, infrared-homing, version of the Umkhonto, designated Umkhonto-IR, is now in service with the South African and Finnish Navies and is being seriously considered by the Swedish Navy. Radar homing would give the missile greater range. While the slant (as distinct from vertical, or horizontal) range of the Umkhonto-IR is believed to be 14 km, that for the Umkhonto-R would, reportedly, be 20 km. (The Denel Dynamics public brochure for the Umkhonto-IR states "Range: 12 000 m", and gives a ceiling of 8 000 m.)

The South African Department of Defence is, it seems, providing funding for the Umkhonto-R project, but this is not likely to be enough to allow a purely national development of the programme within a reasonable time. (If a weapon system takes too long to develop, it becomes obsolete before it even enters service.) Hence Denel's, and South Africa's, reported desire for a partner.

The engagement sequence for the Umkhonto-IR is as follows: the warship detects a target on its acquisition radar and launches the missile against it; the SAM uses its on-board inertial navigation subsystem to fly itself to a "lock-on point" - the location at which its IR seeker can acquire the target and lock on to it - and then guide itself to interception.
However, for the Umkhonto-R, it is reported that, after target detection and missile launch, the SAM would be steered towards the target by commands from the warship, activating its radar seeker when within range, locking on to, and then intercepting, the target.

Unlike the South African navy, the Brazilian Navy already operates radar-guided SAMs, namely the Italian Aspide, with a published range of greater than 15 km. Although the Brazilians rate this as a very good missile, they are, however, merely users of it - they have no mastery of radar-homing technology. Cooperation with South Africa in the Umkhonto-R programme would provide an opportunity for the Brazilians to gain this expertise.

However, there is a potential problem. The Umkhonto (both -IR and -R versions) is designed to use vertical launch systems (VLS) and not traditional trainable launchers.

In a VLS each missile is accomodated in its own silo, and this arrangement has many advantages over traditonal systems, with the result that VLS is being adopted nearly universally for new-build warships. But almost all of a VLS is accomodated below deck, not above deck as with traditional launchers. This requires that the ship have significant internal volume to accomodate the VLS. And Brazil's existing frigates and corvettes do not have the necessary internal volume to host VLS, meaning they cannot carry the Umkhonto. On the other hand, the Umkhonto-R could be fitted to Brazil's bigger ships - the aircraft carrier and four or five amphibious ships - which have plenty of internal volume available. So this is not an automatic deal-wrecker.

The Brazilian Navy has its own research and development agency, the Naval Research Institute (IPqM are its initials in Portuguese). The IPqM is based in Rio de Janeiro and is subordinated to the Navy Science, Technology, and Innovation Secretariat. The Institute has successfully developed weapons and electronic systems that are now in service with the Brazilian Navy, including electronic support measures (ESM), a tactical control system for warships, a monitoring and conmtrol system for ships' engines, a chaff launching system, and sea mines. Projects it is currently working on include an electronic countermeasures (ECM) system, radar absorbing materials, ceramic armour, and an inertial navigation system. The IPqM has close ties with Brazilian industry and would presumably be the lead Brazilian institution in a joint Umkhonto-R programme.

ZeRo4 escreveu:O Umkhonto cai na mesma história do Spyder, versão com buscador IR e outro buscador ARH...

O Buk também é um bom sistema, mas sem o S-300 e sem um sistema de curto alcance torna-se relativamente ineficiente sob meu ponto de vista.

knigh7 escreveu:

ZeRo4 escreveu:O Umkhonto cai na mesma história do Spyder, versão com buscador IR e outro buscador ARH...

O Buk também é um bom sistema, mas sem o S-300 e sem um sistema de curto alcance torna-se relativamente ineficiente sob meu ponto de vista.

Zero4,

Para curto alcance vamos ter o MSA-1. Vai faltar o de longo alcance. A questão é que a Denel está projetanto uma versão do Umkhonto de longo alcance.
Qual o problema com o Spyder?

Carlos Mathias escreveu:Será que interessa?



É caro montar uma defesa anti-aérea completa, hein !?