Fórum Defesa Brasil

felipexion escreveu:

Sterrius escreveu:Israel pelo visto ta com problemas serios!

O grosso da sua renda militar vem dos EUA. Logo comprar aviões fora dos EUA ficará MUITO complicado! Ficarão totalmente presos!

A hora de voo do F-35 é altíssimo, sem contar o seu preço de aquisição. Israel mesmo conseguindo cortar a fila na hora de receber os aviões vai sofrer e muito já que esse poderá ser o seu único vetor.
A coleira vai apertar!

Por isso é que o F-35BR era muito importante, o Brasil fabricava e exportava para Israel

felipexion escreveu:

Sterrius escreveu:Israel pelo visto ta com problemas serios!

O grosso da sua renda militar vem dos EUA. Logo comprar aviões fora dos EUA ficará MUITO complicado! Ficarão totalmente presos!

A hora de voo do F-35 é altíssimo, sem contar o seu preço de aquisição. Israel mesmo conseguindo cortar a fila na hora de receber os aviões vai sofrer e muito já que esse poderá ser o seu único vetor.
A coleira vai apertar!

Bah, os alemães não oferecem submarinos a Israel? Os EUA que ofereçam os F-35

Sterrius escreveu:Israel pelo visto ta com problemas serios!

O grosso da sua renda militar vem dos EUA. Logo comprar aviões fora dos EUA ficará MUITO complicado! Ficarão totalmente presos!

Sempre tem a possibilidade de um Super F-16 Block Mega ++ Istelti com maior participação em aviônica e estrutura.

Uma coisa é concreta sobre o F-35.
Ele aumentou a longevidade do F-16 e F-18 !

Knight,

Os Israelitas bem tentaram, mas os EUA não deixaram, houve um meio termo.

[[]]'s

soultrain escreveu:Knight,

Os Israelitas bem tentaram, mas os EUA não deixaram, houve um meio termo.

[[]]'s

É verdade

Mas com a promessa que o F35 já estava saindo do forno.

Tudo depende do momentum na linha do tempo.

É provável um adiamento de 5 anos ?

Como o povo do deserto usa MUITO seus F16, logo vão querer conversar novamente.
Ou batendo mais forte pelos F35 ou querendo flexibilidades para o F16.

[]'s

soultrain escreveu:
Por isso é que o F-35BR era muito importante, o Brasil fabricava e exportava para Israel

Aquele mesmo F-35BR que poderíamos exportar até mesmo para o Zimbábue?

Knight escreveu:
Sempre tem a possibilidade de um Super F-16 Block Mega ++ Istelti com maior participação em aviônica e estrutura.

Tipo esse???

P44 escreveu: Bah, os alemães não oferecem submarinos a Israel? Os EUA que ofereçam os F-35

Esses americanos... Mudam de opinião como se mudassem de roupa.

Em relação a Israel...JAMÉ , citanco um ex-ministro tuga

felipexion escreveu:

soultrain escreveu:
Por isso é que o F-35BR era muito importante, o Brasil fabricava e exportava para Israel

Aquele mesmo F-35BR que poderíamos exportar até mesmo para o Zimbábue?

Aqui também não apareceu a estória maluca de transferir, transferir não montar um espelho, da linha de produção do Rafale no Brasil para produzir o avião para o Brasil e exportar para a França. Ou da EMBRAER comprando a SAAB, se fosse fundir quem sabe...

Ambas sem nenhuma lógica

P44 escreveu:Em relação a Israel...JAMÉ , citanco um ex-ministro tuga

Já o que?
Qualquer coisa a IAI moderniza alguns F-16 estocados como solução temporária.

Bourne escreveu: Aqui também não apareceu a estória maluca de transferir, transferir não montar um espelho, da linha de produção do Rafale no Brasil para produzir o avião para o Brasil e exportar para a França. Ou da EMBRAER comprando a SAAB, se fosse fundir quem sabe...

Ambas sem nenhuma lógica

Rapaz, tem uma também da SAAB que o Brasil poderia vender caças para o mundo, esueceram de combinar com os indianos (que receberam a mesma proposta) e com os próprios suecos (que perderiam empregos suecos e dinheiro para dar aos brasileiros).

Esses vendedores...
Será que não tem nenhum F-5 estocado no deserto para a Embraer modernizar?

JAMÉ =Tradução literal de "Jamais" em francês

O Pentágono vai congelar uma soma de 614 milhões de dólares que deveria entregar ao construtor aeronáutico Lockheed Martin por causa de problemas e atrasos no programa de compra de caças F-35, anunciou nesta segunda-feira o secretário da Defesa, Robert Gates.

"O progresso e a evolução dos F-35 nos dois últimos anos não cumpriram as expectativas", explicou.

O F35 é um caça construído pela Lockheed Martin para substituir os F16.

Fonte: http://noticias.terra.com.br/mundo/noti ... 94,00.html

Italy Threatens To Halt JSF Plant Work

Italy Threatens To Halt JSF Plant Work
By tom kington
Published: 1 February 2010

ROME - Frustrated by what it considers paltry workshare on the Joint Strike Fighter program, Italy is threatening to halt preparations for its JSF final assembly line until it gets a bigger slice of work on the program.

The protest will halt planning for construction at Cameri air base in northern Italy where Finmeccanica unit Alenia Aeronautica is working with Lockheed Martin to build a Final Assembly and Check Out line (FACO).
Scheduled to start rolling off Italian JSFs in 2014, the FACO will also be used to maintain Italian and Dutch JSFs. Italy also has ambitions to turn it into a regional logistics hub.
"The government intends to order the suspension of the work preparing the JSF assembly line at Cameri until it obtains from Lockheed Martin an adequate and tangible response to our requests for the greater involvement of Italian industry in the program," said Italian Defense Undersecretary Guido Crosetto.
Crosetto aired his concerns about workshare in November when he visited the United States to talk with Lockheed Martin officials and Ashton Carter, U.S defense undersecretary for acquisition.
Italy has signed to contribute $904 million to the production sustainment and follow-on development (PSFD) phase of the JSF, having already committed $1 billion at the development stage. It now expects to pay $16.6 billion on the acquisition and initial logistic support for up to 131 aircraft.
Finmeccanica unit Alenia Aeronautica is Italy's largest contributor to the JSF as a second source for wing work, while smaller contracts have been given to a host of smaller firms.
"To date, the value of the contracts awarded, as well as the opportunities that will realistically turn into work for Italian firms on the JSF amount to about 55 percent of the value of the Italian investment in the program," said Crosetto. "We have asked Lockheed Martin that the objective be raised to 75 percent or more.
"At the same time we have asked the U.S. Department of Defense to step in to remove or mitigate the internal restrictions that today hinder the reaching of this objective," he said, "an objective we believe is legitimate considering Italy is the third-largest investor in the program after the U.S. and the U.K. Italy is not a customer but a partner on this program and we would like to be treated as such."
Lockheed officials in Washington did not respond to requests for comment.
An Alenia spokesman declined to comment on Crosetto's call for more workshare.

JSF Program Reponse

The Pentagon's JSF program manager, U.S. Marine Corps Maj. Gen. David Heinz, said Jan. 27 that Italy has "provided no such indications to me" that it will cut its participation in the program. Moreover, Heinz said, he would not respond to such a ploy.
"I truly believe, like the other nations [participating in JSF], this is all about trying to get the best deal possible," Heinz said. "I am not going to respond to [that] because we are years away from some of the decisions where we would say, 'Where are we going to put a new engine facility for maintenance or where are we going to stand up some of the warehouses in Europe?' My answer to that is: When I've got airplanes in Europe flying JSF, that would be the appropriate time to consider these issues."
Heinz said some countries were adopting an "if they build it, we will come" approach.
"I don't accept that as a premise for how we advance the program on a best-value basis," he said.
The JSF program was meant to move away from the traditional concepts of workshare for purchasers of the platform.
But Italy's center-right government began to express reluctance to abide completely by the principles of best value last year. When the government majority on a parliamentary defense commission voted to approve construction of the FACO and the purchase of JSF aircraft last March, it inserted a clause requiring "the signing of industrial and government accords that allow - notwithstanding the application of best value principles - an industrial return for Italy proportional to its financial participation in the program."
The commission also required an annual report on whether this condition was being met.
Italy has pushed harder than Lockheed or the Pentagon to put a FACO on Italian soil, so it's unclear whether its plan to stop work there will sway workshare decisions. Construction is expected to cost $775 million.
A March report to parliament said the FACO could "position Italy as the regional fulcrum for JSF support, significantly consolidate Italy's position in NATO," and create up to 600 jobs.
Crosetto said he had requested greater roles for Italian firms on electronic warfare and radar work on the JSF, as well as on communication, navigation and identification systems, and logistical and mission support systems.
"We have received an initial response from Lockheed Martin, that could represent a first step toward satisfying Italy's expectations if the prime contractor now follows up the letter rapidly with tangible and verifiable measures, accompanied by concrete results," he said.
The defense undersecretary received backing from at least one Italian analyst.
"Italian participation in the JSF is strategic and that is why Crosetto is right," said Michele Nones, head of the security and defense department at the Istituto Affari Internazionali, a Rome think tank partly funded by the Italian foreign ministry. "Choosing the JSF meant choosing what activties we pursue in Italy for the next 20 years. We made the choice despite some criticism in Europe ... This is also about the quality of the role Italy plays, not just work hours."

John Reed contributed to this report from Washington.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4478916

Pentagon chief fires head of F-35 aircraft programme

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has sacked the marine general overseeing a $40bn (£25bn) project to build the next generation strike fighter jet.

Mr Gates said the F-35 programme had been plagued by problems and failed to hit performance targets.

He also said Lockheed Martin, the US corporation responsible for building the jet, would not be awarded $614m in performance-related payouts.

The Pentagon wants the F-35 to replace most of its ageing fighter jets.

"The progress and performance of the F-35 over the past two years has not been what it should," Mr Gates told a news conference on the Pentagon's proposed budget.

He added that "a number of key goals and benchmarks were not met".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8492430.stm

Notícia completa.


size=150]
Pentágono congela contrato com a Lockheed Martin[/size]
WASHINGTON (AFP) – Segundo afirmou nesta segunda feira dia 1 de Janeiro, o secretário de Defesa, Robert Gates, o Pentágono irá reter US$ 614 mi de dólares de pagamentos à Lockheed Martin pelos aumentos abusivos de custos e atrasos no programa do caça 5G F-35.

Segundo Gates “O progresso eo desempenho do F-35 ao longo dos últimos dois anos foi aquém do que deveria ser, um conjunto de objectivos-chave e critérios não foram cumpridos.”

Gates disse que ele tomou a decisão porque ” o contribuinte não deve ser penalizado e responsabilizado a custear a recolocação do programa JSF (Joint Strike Fighter) de volta nos trilhos“.

A medida foi tomada com o acordo do contratante principal, a Lockheed Martin, disse ele em uma coletiva de imprensa enquanto apresentava o orçamento de defesa do Pentágono.

Gates disse que o Departamento de Defesa também teve uma fração de culpa nos “problemas de performance e desempenho” uma vez que se encarregou de avaliar o programa Joint Strike Fighter, instalando um escritório do Pentágono para inspecionar o programa.

O F-35 é o mais caro programa de armas no orçamento do Pentágono vastas US$ 708 bi, e os contratantes atraso bem como elevação de custos tem se repetido e agravado a situação.

Gates, que não hesitou em demitir um número de oficiais superiores e funcionários durante seu mandato como secretário de Defesa desde 2006, disse que a medida era parte de seu esforço para definir “quando as coisas correrem mal, as pessoas serão responsabilizadas“.

Apesar dos problemas recentes, o programa F-35 foi “reestruturado” e a aeronave estava no caminho certo “para se tornar a espinha dorsal da Força Aérea dos EUA “, disse Gates na entrevista coletiva.

O orçamento de defesa de 2011 anunciado nesta segunda feira estipulava uma robusta parcela para o programa F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, algo como US$ 10.7 bi para 42 aeronaves.

Gates, também advertiu que ele recomendaria ao presidente Barack Obama vetar qualquer tentativa do Congresso de financiar um motor alternativo para o F-35, bem como para complementar a frota de aviões cargueiros C-17 aviões.

Quaisquer benefícios para a construção de um motor alternativo para o F-35 seria “compensado pelo excesso de custos, complexidade e riscos associados“, disse ele.

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Gates Announces Joint Strike Fighter Program Shakeup


(Source: U.S Air Force; issued February 2, 2010)



WASHINGTON --- Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates announced a restructuring in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter office Feb. 1, to provide increased oversight of a program he conceded has fallen behind in meeting key benchmarks.

Secretary Gates also announced that he has withheld $614 million in performance fees from the lead contractor, Lockheed-Martin, "since the taxpayers should not have to bear the entire burden of getting the JSF program on track."

"We have restructured the F-35 program and believe it is on track to become the backbone of U.S. air superiority for the next generation," Secretary Gates said during a Pentagon news conference. "Nonetheless, the progress and performance of F-35, over the last two years, has not been what it should, as a number of key goals and benchmarks were not met."

To fix the situation, the secretary announced a change in leadership at the Joint Strike Fighter Program Office, which had been headed by Marine Maj. Gen. David R. Heinz. A three-star officer yet to be named will replace him, Secretary Gates said, the higher rank reflecting the importance of the program to the future of military aviation.

Secretary Gates, who visited Lockheed Martin's F-35 production facility in Fort Worth, Texas, Aug. 31, 2009, said he has become concerned about the program's progress as Ashton Carter, undersecretary for acquisition, technology and logistics, became more involved in the program.

"It was clear that there were more problems than we were aware of when I visited Fort Worth," Secretary Gates said. "And I think that the restructuring program that Mr. Carter has put in place will work. It is realistic. The cost estimates are now in accord with what the joint estimating teams are predicting, rather than what the program is predicting."

The problems facing the program aren't insurmountable, with proper steps taken, Secretary Gates said. "I believe that we are in a position to now move forward with this program in a realistic way," he said. "But by the same token, one cannot absorb the additional costs that we have in this program and the delays without people being held accountable."

Secretary Gates pointed to his track record since coming to the Defense Department of demanding accountability.

"Accountability is not just about holding contractors responsible. The Department of Defense also bears responsibility for the JSF's troubling performance record," he said. "I think if I've set one tone here at the Department of Defense, it is that when things go wrong, people will be held accountable."

Visiting the Lockheed-Martin plant this summer, Secretary Gates said the importance of the F-35 program can't be overstated, citing the new aircraft as an example of new, innovative and more cost-effective ways to meet the country's current and future defense needs.

The F-35 is the first aircraft to be developed within the department to meet the needs of three services, with three variants being developed simultaneously. This brings cost savings and economies of scale not possible with separate aircraft because the F-35s will share common components and maintenance requirements, Secretary Gates said.

"We cannot afford, as a nation, not to have this airplane," he said, noting that every dollar saved in acquisition frees up a dollar to support other critical wartime requirements.

The Air Force will receive the F-35's "A" variant, which will provide conventional takeoff and landing capabilities. The Marine Corps is slated to receive the "B" variant that has a vertical-lift capability. The Navy will receive the "C" variant, designed for carrier launches.

The different F-35 variants will replace the legacy F-16 Fighting Falcons for the Air Force and the F/A-18 and AV-8 aircraft for the Navy and Marine Corps. (ends)



More Turbulence in Fighter Jet Program


(Source: Australian Strategic Policy Institute; issued February 3, 2010)



The troubled Joint Strike Fighter project - upon which Australia is relying for its next generation of attack aircraft - has struck further chaos, with the US government sacking the general in charge and withholding hundreds of millions of dollars in payments from the project's prime contractor.

The moves come less than a month after US Defence Secretary Robert Gates ordered a delay to the $US300 billion ($A340 billion) JSF program, including temporarily halting orders for 122 of the aircraft, to help fund further development.

The Australian government has committed to buying at least 14 of the cutting-edge fighters at a cost of $3.2 billion, and has indicated it will eventually take 100, or four fighter squadrons, at a projected cost of $16 billion. But that cost could blow out with delays and disruptions.

The JSF, also known as the F-35, is a ''fifth-generation fighter'' earmarked to replace the RAAF's F-111 bombers and FA-18 fighters from later next decade in what will be Australia's largest defence buy. There has been heated debate over whether it can be delivered on time and on budget, and if it will be the dominant fighter its makers have claimed.

Australia is one of eight countries that have agreed to co-finance the jet's development, along with the US, Britain, Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey, Canada, Denmark and Norway.

Mr Gates announced yesterday that Major-General David Heinz would be replaced at the helm of the project and that Lockheed Martin would miss out on $US614 million ($A696 million) in payments.

''The progress and performance of the F-35 over the past two years has not been what it should,'' Mr Gates said, adding ''a number of key goals and benchmarks were not met''.

Defence Minister John Faulkner welcomed what he said was ''a strategy to stabilise [the JSF's] cost and schedule'', but also pointed out that the budget handed down by Mr Gates had yet to pass through the Congress.

''The Australian government welcomes the decisive action taken overnight by the United States government to reduce risk in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Program,'' Mr Faulkner said in a statement.

''The Australian government's staged acquisition approach to the JSF, commencing with the acquisition of 14 aircraft, has strongly mitigated risk in relation to this vital program.

''As part of the Government's JSF acquisition strategy, significant cost and schedule buffers were built into Australia's project in anticipation of the steps announced in the US.''

However, defence procurement expert Andrew Davies, from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said that delays and JSF cost blow-outs were squeezing the Australian government.

''Defence's position has always been that they have enough contingency in their budget and schedule that it won't be a problem, but this further erodes the slack that we had,'' Mr Davies said.

''It's certainly trending in the wrong direction. Is it catastrophic? Probably not. Does it raise the level of risk? Yes it does.''

-ends-

US Deputy Secretary of Defence Bill Lynn can't put price on F-35 warplanes


THE massive Joint Strike Fighter project is going to be delayed and cost more, the US Deputy Secretary of Defence Bill Lynn says.

But Mr Lynn could not say by how much the cost overruns and delays would increase the price tag for the Australian government, which in November committed $3 billion to buy an initial batch of 14 yet-to-be-completed F-35 warplanes. Australia plans eventually to purchase 100 of the fifth-generation stealth warplanes at a cost of about $16 billion.

“The development was originally projected to last an additional 30 months, we think with the additional test aircraft it will be closer to a delay of about 12 or 13 months but I can't give you the cost numbers,” Mr Lynn said today during the official opening of a $300 million shipbuilding precinct in South Australia.

Earlier this month Defence Minister John Faulkner said he hoped a restructuring of the JSF program would “stabilise its schedule and cost”.

Mr Lynn said the Obama administration wanted to get the project right.

“When we looked at it as we came into office last year, we thought that some of the costs were underestimated in terms of production, and we thought that development was going to last longer than was originally projected,” Mr Lynn said.

“We have now recosted the production to, we think, a better estimate, and we have taken the development and tried to strengthen it with some additional test aircraft so that we can get it closer to the original schedule.

“We think with those steps it will continue on its path to be the backbone of tactical aviation for both the United States and hopefully Australia.

“The development was definitely going to cost more and the unit costs have gone up. But the important thing was to get it right and budget it right, and that is what we have done.”

Mr Lynn was joined by US Ambassador to Australia, Jeffrey Bleich, and South Australian Premier Mike Rann for the opening of the Techport facility, which includes a common user facility with the largest ship lift in the southern hemisphere.

Techport forms a precinct with ASC, the Maritime Skills Centre and industrial park for suppliers. The adjoining ASC yard was opened in January with its own $120 million shipyard.

The precinct will build 12 next-generation submarines and the Royal Australian Navy's new air warfare destroyers.

But Mr Rann, who goes to the polls on March 20, stressed the exciting aspect of the precinct was its “ongoing nature ... this is not just about the $8 billion air warfare destroyer project”.

“This is going to be the site of a whole series of projects, some of which can be built simultaneously,” he said.

“The state has won $44 billion worth of defence projects in the past five or six years.

“Great US companies like Ratheon, Lockheed have located to South Australia. “This is all about a vision to make South Australia the defence industry hub of our nation and that vision becomes a reality today.”

The Australian