Fórum Defesa Brasil

usskelvin escreveu:A unica coisa que a moderação deixou de fazer algo que eu vi foi quando vc postou aquele hitler judeu, coisa abominavel, asquerosa, e vc ainda se queixa que dos que pensam diferente de vc, pior, patrulha aqueles que demonstram quando vc esta errado.

Naturalmente, o Morcego acabou de assumir sua condição, ao lembrar velha querela com o Prepe. Um faker sempre tem essa contradição dentro de si, algo querendo aflorar, mostrar para o mundo sua excepcionalidade, seu garbo, sua elegância. In casu, agradeçamos à sua invencível síndrome de protagonismo. Como diria um amigo meu, "fratura exposta".

Como já fora expulso antes, e teima em voltar (pelo menos, não voltou travestido de forista mulher, como um outro neocon já banido), acho que sobrará para o Túlio, nosso estimado guardião dos bons costumes e eficiente zelador desta Casa (que não é a da Tia), proceder à necessária ejeção ...

Sorry, mas está na cara que é um faker. E pior, que voltará, cada vez mais à direita de Átila, o huno ...

pafuncio.

pafuncio escreveu:

usskelvin escreveu:A unica coisa que a moderação deixou de fazer algo que eu vi foi quando vc postou aquele hitler judeu, coisa abominavel, asquerosa, e vc ainda se queixa que dos que pensam diferente de vc, pior, patrulha aqueles que demonstram quando vc esta errado.

Naturalmente, o Morcego acabou de assumir sua condição, ao lembrar velha querela com o Prepe. Um faker sempre tem essa contradição dentro de si,

ah, sim, agora eu sou o tal morcego.

pafuncio escreveu:algo querendo aflorar, mostrar para o mundo sua excepcionalidade, seu garbo, sua elegância.

Desculpe, mas sou macho e gosto de mulher.

pafuncio escreveu:In casu, agradeçamos à sua invencível síndrome de protagonismo. Como diria um amigo meu, "fratura exposta".

Não sei se agradeço ou retruco.

pafuncio escreveu:Como já fora expulso antes, e teima em voltar (pelo menos, não voltou travestido de forista mulher, como um outro neocon já banido),

Seja la o que for que vc queira dizer, bem, eu não sou neocon, tendo ser batuqueiro, mas não sou nem cristão.

pafuncio escreveu:acho que sobrará para o Túlio, nosso estimado guardião dos bons costumes e eficiente zelador desta Casa (que não é a da Tia), proceder à necessária ejeção ...

ah entendi, vc quer de qualquer forma me ver fora daqui.

pafuncio escreveu:Sorry, mas está na cara que é um faker. E pior, que voltará, cada vez mais à direita de Átila, o huno ...

pafuncio.

olha, eu não quero tornar esse debate particular, não entendo esse patrulhamento.

UK announces F-35 JSF purchase
March 19, 2009 (by John R. Kent) - British Defense Secretary John Hutton announced on Wednesday that the United Kingdom will purchase three Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II operational test aircraft.

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F-35B - STOVL
This signals the U.K.’s commitment to the upcoming Operational Test and Evaluation phase of the Joint Strike Fighter program. Hutton made the announcement during a visit to Washington, D.C.

The F-35B is the first aircraft to combine stealth with short takeoff/vertical landing (STOVL) capability and supersonic speed. It is the next-generation fighter for the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force, and will be flown from the two new Queen Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers. The U.K. plans to bring 138 F-35s to the fleet.

"From the JSF program's very beginnings, the United Kingdom has been deeply involved in the funding, research, engineering and development of the F-35 Lightning II, and has made enormous contributions to its success,” said Tom Burbage, Lockheed Martin executive vice president and F-35 Program Integration general manager.

"This purchase reflects the key partnership the U.K. and U.S. will share in joint operational testing, starting early in the next decade. We look forward to the U.K.'s continued central role in making a great aircraft even better."

The U.K. is investing $2 billion in the F-35’s development – the largest contribution among the program’s eight partner nations. More than 100 British companies are involved in the program, including BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce and Martin Baker.

Courtesy of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company

Participant nations:
Primary customer: USA
Level 1 partner: UK
Level 2 partner: The Netherlands and Italy
Level 3 partner: Canada, Turkey, Australia, Norway and Denmark
Security Cooperative Participants (SCP): Israel and Singapore

Investments:
The United Kingdom is the sole "Level 1" partner, contributing US$2.5 billion, about 10% of the development costs.

Level 2 partners are Italy, which is contributing US$1 billion; and the Netherlands, US$800 million.

Level 3 partners are Canada, US$475 million; Turkey, US$195 million; Australia, US$144 million; Norway, US$122 million and Denmark, US$110 million.

Things I learned on the F-35 factory tour
By Stephen Trimble
on May 22, 2009 2:09 PM
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... earne.html


Lockheed Martin says:


1. The $800 million gap in FY10 F-35 budget -- $11.2 billion announced in April dwindled to $10.4 billion in May - may reflect program's MILCON account

2. BF-1 STOVL aircraft will start a 12- to 24-flight conversion program to full vertical landing in July in Fort Worth, and complete in September at NAS Patuxent River

3. Frontal-aspect radar cross section on F-35 will be no different for international variant, whatever Boeing may claim

4. Looking ahead to 240-aircraft yearly output, Lockheed wants to learn best practices from Airbus A320 production system, which also combines a global supply chain with multiple variants and customer configurations

5. All engineering drawings for all three F-35 variants will be complete in July

6. Finland is in discussions with Joint Program Office to sign "study contract", which is similar to Spain's current involvement

7. F-35 airframe structure includes 22,000 "penetrations", of which 85% are currently drilled by automation. Studies ongoing now aim to raise that amount by 5-7%

8. The lift fan inlet door is also known within the factory as the "'57 Chevy hood"

9. F-35's moving assembly line to start running at 58 inches an hour by end of 2010 or early 2011

10. After 2.5 years in flight tests, the F-35 program will hit the 100-flight mark on the next sortie

Spanish Navy is considering buying F-35B
Lockheed Martin argues that the F-35 is the only possible replacement for the Harrier Spanish Armada


13/05/2009 (Infodefernsa.com) - The U.S. company Lockheed Martin exhibited for the first time before a group of journalists at its Spanish factory Forth Worth (Texas, USA) for the vertical takeoff fighter F-35B should be stated that the substitute natural Harrier aircraft currently in service with the Spanish Armada.

The new fifth-generation fighter, still under development, incorporates many cutting-edge technologies and its invisibility to radar and has a single jet engine, which in its naval version, operating in vertical takeoff and landing and has overcome with better evidence of the required vertical thrust.

The first test pilot and director of assessment F35B, Jon Beesley, assured reporters that the new naval fighter, the Navy hopes to recruit to provide the Strategic Projection Ship Juan Carlos I, will have a range of fighter approximately 600 miles and more stealthy, invisible to the radar-F22., Europa Press reported.

Officially, Spain is not a partner in the consortium of several industrial countries that finance the development of the airplane while the Spanish Armada has privately expressed his interest in the match F35B by Lockheed Martin that it would be one of the candidates to replace in a few years the Spanish Harrier.

According to the newspaper business, staff of the Spanish Armada is already in the facilities of Lockheed Martin in Fort Worth, familiarizing themselves with the new aircraft, which demonstrated, he adds, that the stake of the U.S. multinational for making this new client Spain plane, has no reverse and has officially begun.

Single plane

The JSF program general manager, Tom Burbage, said that the new game out for its operational and meets "all" the qualities that characterize the four previous generations of fighter aircraft. He emphasized that his company hopes to get a game "killer" and while "affordable" compared to other combat aircraft in service. "It will be a single plane," he predicted.

Located at one of the naval fighters, who starred in the pilot's first flight with vertical takeoff F35 stressed that, when fully operational, the 'Lightning II' will be "ten times more effective in combat missions than any fighter that the preceded it in military aviation.

It also stressed its ability to survive and their interoperability, in addition to its ability to network with other weapon systems. Finally, the JSF over the previous game as combat aircraft to be multi-conceived from its development to complete any task operation.

Lockheed Martin also showed the Spanish press to the final assembly line of the three versions of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), the F35A, B and C (conventional take-off vertical and short take-off). The model of interest to Spain and has made fourteen test flights.

¿European Option?

The Business Daily says that the experts do not consider that there may be a viable option European F35B to medium term. However, since the division of EADS Military Air Systems in Spain is a different version for the successor to the Harrier. Unofficial sources from the company told the business daily that the naval version of the Eurofighter is no longer a mere project, and proceed to negotiations with the Spanish Armada.

Since EADS is believed that the game could be "navalizado" with little difficulty, thanks to its short take-off run of only 700 meters, and the availability of the vector nozzles designed by the Spanish company ITP, among other things.

Em Resumo... ira custar mais e demorara' mais para o F-35 entrar em servico...

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-09-711T

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Oque podemos tirar do F-35 é que hoje, o design de um caça de 5a geração custa aproximadamente 22 bilhões de dólares. Não acho que dê para fazer um completo com menos de 12bi, tirando os excessos americanos. E certamente só depois de já ter de graça todas as tecnologias base, ou seja, toda a tecnologia anterior necessária já desenvolvida e paga...

Alguém aqui acha que o Brasil vai tocar sozinho, ou em parceria com a Suécia, um caça de 5a. geração?

Allan

ps. Como referência, ao longo de 30 anos, gastamos 1 décimo disso com o sub nuclear e o VLS...

Graham Warwick graham_warwick@aviationweek.com

Ft. Worth, Texas, and Washington

Guy Norris guy_norris@aviationweek.com

Funding development of a second engine from within the existing F-35 budget would cut production by dozens of aircraft and push up program costs, the Joint Strike Fighter's program chief warns in an interview with Aviation Week.

The concerns come as Congress is expected to reverse the White House and Pentagon's effort to cancel the alternate powerplant.

Forcing the program to fund development of the General Electric/Rolls-Royce F136 from within the existing JSF budget would "take 50-80 tails out of the program" over the next five years, says the program executive officer (PEO), Marine Corps Brig. Gen. David Heinz.

The Defense Department's Fiscal 2010 budget request calls for procurement of 513 F-35s over five years, an increase of 25 over previous plans, with another 180 expected to be built for international partners over the same period. This would take annual production "into the low 200s" by Fiscal 2015, he says.

Funding the F136 within the existing budget would require cutting six aircraft from the 30 planned in Fiscal 2010, Heinz says. This would make aircraft in subsequent years more expensive, pushing back international purchases and compounding the problem because the partners could not afford early aircraft, he says.

"We would never get to 200 tails [a year]. We would build out to around 100, under-utilize the tooling and not get down the learning curve," the PEO says. "I worry about taking tails out of the program because it will get so expensive the partners will start to pull back."

Pentagon leadership has not sought to continue the F136, arguing DOD can only afford the Pratt & Whitney F135 primary engine. But Congress is expected to reinstate the funding. Lawmakers, with widespread consensus, have ignored the cancellation effort for years and earmarked for the alternate.

But before, some of the restored funding has come from within the existing JSF budget, forcing cuts elsewhere in the program. Former U.S. Air Force leaders have testified on Capitol Hill that they didn't so much oppose an alternate engine as they did sacrificing elsewhere to fund it (Aerospace DAILY, March 7, 2008).

The GE/R-R Fighter Engine Team has defended its lobbying for the F136. "We've never advocated taking the money out of the other parts of the program. Congress needs to decide where the money comes from," says Dennis Jarvi, president of Rolls-Royce North America Defense.

The international partners would like a competing engine, and Pentagon efforts to kill the F136 are "sure to be a major topic" when they meet in Washington later this month, says Tom Burbage, Lockheed executive vice-president and general manager, F-35 program integration. "There is support in the international community for the second engine," he tells Aviation Week.

Burbage says the second-engine issue is "programmatically complex" because, while Congress has incrementally funded development of the F136, the Defense Dept. has not factored production of two engines into its budget planning and not decided how it would conduct an annual leader/follower competition.

"It's the clear intent of Congress to have a second engine, but it could have a very substantial impact," he says.

ninjanki escreveu:Oque podemos tirar do F-35 é que hoje, o design de um caça de 5a geração custa aproximadamente 22 bilhões de dólares. Não acho que dê para fazer um completo com menos de 12bi, tirando os excessos americanos. E certamente só depois de já ter de graça todas as tecnologias base, ou seja, toda a tecnologia anterior necessária já desenvolvida e paga...

Alguém aqui acha que o Brasil vai tocar sozinho, ou em parceria com a Suécia, um caça de 5a. geração?

Allan

ps. Como referência, ao longo de 30 anos, gastamos 1 décimo disso com o sub nuclear e o VLS...

Posso?

A Suécia estará muito bem servida com o Gripen e suas futuras atualizações por longos anos, assim como a França e seu Rafale. Acredito que o F-35 trará alguma superioridade frente aos atuais caças, porém com certeza ele não será um caça perfeito e tão avançado quanto se fala.

Acredito que é um erro o Brasil manter uma frota de caças de 5 geração, não vejo ameaça a altura para o Brasil dispor de meios tão caros e complexos. Principalmente se este for adquirido, ''compra de prateleira''. Já que com certeza a manutenção será muito cara e a dependência externa será muito grande.

Uma FAB dotada de meios adequados, padronizados, com apoio de aviões leves como o Super tucano, aviões radar como o E-99 em maior numero, aviões não tripulados, como o predador, por exemplo, com certa capacidade de ataque. É muito mais barata e eficiente do que a compra de alguns aviões de 5 geração, ou o desenvolvimento deste. E com a vantagem de ser tão eficiente quanto.

Diria que é até mais eficiente, pois esta interação e diversidade são muito mais adequadas ao cenário Latino, amazônico, aonde a vigilância e a capacidade de ataque aproximado, com sistemas modernos, de visão noturna, por exemplo, é muito mais eficiente que a utilização de um caça Stealth.

E com certeza, é muito melhor em uma guerra, produzir seu próprio equipamento, mesmo que este seja inferior, do que depender de um cliente externo, que se aproveitará do momento para tirar vantagem do vitimado, ou até mesmo se abster de ajudá-lo se eventualmente seu inimigo for aliado de seu fornecedor.

Esta frase sempre surtiu muito efeito, espero que aqui ocorra o mesmo:

'' A melhor força aérea não é a que tem os melhores equipamentos, mas sim a que é mais homogênea e operacional. ''

Quero derreter esse visor, hehehehe

JSF Program Head Sees Risk of Grounding with Single Engine


(Source: Forecast International; issued June 3, 2009)



WASHINGTON --- The Pentagon needs to carefully consider the operational risk of having just one engine for the F-35 fighter jet, the Marine Corps general who runs the program said on June 2, adding that competition could bring faster technology development and lower costs.

F-35 Program Executive Officer Brigadier General David Heinz said he backed the Pentagon's budget proposal, which did not include funding for an alternate engine. But Heinz also said lawmakers were likely to restore funding as they have in the past.

The Pentagon last month submitted a fiscal 2010 budget plan that once again included no funding for an alternate F136 engine for the F-35 being developed by General Electric Co and Rolls-Royce Group PLC. It was one of several programs scaled back or canceled by Defense Secretary Robert Gates, many of which are being questioned now by lawmakers.

The market for the F-35 engines is estimated to be worth $100 billion over the life of the program -- a huge boon for engine maker Pratt & Whitney. The company developed the F135 engine already in use in early production models of the aircraft.

Heinz said a single engine could be worrisome if an engine problem ever grounded the fighters, given that the F-35 is meant to replace many existing F-16s, F-15s and Harriers. In the past, having a variety of fighters meant the Pentagon could use other planes to offset any groundings, like an 11-month engine-related halt in Harriers in 2000.

"You won't have the operational flexibility with the various type model series that you enjoy today," Heinz said. "I simply think that we've focused too much on the discussion about cost benefit and not the operational risk benefit."

For now, the Pentagon concluded the risk was acceptable. But Heinz urged officials in the future to carefully evaluate, with data and analysis, the risks of a fleet-wide grounding.

-ends-

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... ngine.html

F-35 estaria fazendo até 4 vezes mais barulho do que o F-16.
Os vizinhos já estão reclamando…

Operando na classe de empuxo de 40.000 libras com pós-queimador, os motores PW F135 ou GE/RR F136 do F-35 cobram um preço pela sua potência, em alto e bom som: ao menos em operações de pouso e decolagem contínuas, o F-35 estaria produzindo duas vezes mais ruído do que o F-15 e até quatro vezes mais do que o F-16. Por conta de dados como esse, revelados pela USAF, moradores vizinhos do que poderá ser o Centro de Treinamento Integrado do F-35, a Base Aérea de Eglin, na Flórida, já estariam reclamando das conseqüências da operação local do novo caça. Questões parecidas também estariam sendo levantadas na Noruega, futura operadora da aeronave.

Fonte: DID

Santiago escreveu:Spanish Navy is considering buying F-35B
Lockheed Martin argues that the F-35 is the only possible replacement for the Harrier Spanish Armada

......

Mas eles tem outra opção? Ou compram F-35B, ou fazem um NAe capaz de operar um Rafale M, Mig-29K e F-18E. Caso contrário terão 02 porta-helos do ponto de vista da aviação naval.

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PRick escreveu:

Santiago escreveu:Spanish Navy is considering buying F-35B
Lockheed Martin argues that the F-35 is the only possible replacement for the Harrier Spanish Armada

......

Mas eles tem outra opção? Ou compram F-35B, ou fazem um NAe capaz de operar um Rafale M, Mig-29K e F-18E. Caso contrário terão 02 porta-helos do ponto de vista da aviação naval.

[]´s

Isso 'e verdade...

'E o famoso... ou d'a... ou d'a


Ensina umas boas licoes para n'os para ser honesto!

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