NOTÍCIAS DO RAFALE

[Carlos Mathias]

Então eles ficam com os aviões deles, e nós compramos de outro, simples assim. Eu também acho que não temos bala prá fazer qualquer tipo de pressão, mas temos amigos que acham o oposto, que os EUA estão doidos para nos colocar no pedestal. Eu discordo.

[EDSON]

Nesre caso nada como um dia após o outro.

[Bolovo]

A proposta americana tem um só problema e grave. Os missies BVR.

O que eles irão nos oferecer? AIM 120 ? Esta eu pago pra ver. E se ganhar vou torcer para estar errado.

Lembrando que isso é um requisito incondicional da FAB.

Se não liberar do jeito que a FAB quer a FAB não compra. PONTO.

[rcolistete]

Olá pessoal,

Crítica construtiva : está cansativo ler páginas desse tópico "Rafale News" e não ler nada sobre o Rafale, ou quando tem é opinião pessoal+parcial sem fato ou base alguma.

Uma notícia (não-oficial) :

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showth ... 325&page=3 (post #77)

"According DefenceNet.gr (in Greek only, sorry), Sarkozy during his last visit in Greece, proposed Greece to buy 25 new Rafales, in order to "replace" and not mordenize the rest 20 older M-2000E/BGMs (15 were upgraded to -5MK2 standard and 10 more were purchaced new from HAF the past decade) for about 1.75 billion Euros."

Daria EUR 70 mi (US$109 mi) por cada Rafale (F3 ? F3+ ?) para a Grécia. Não há detalhes no que teria incluído nesse pacote de 25 Rafales.

[]s, Roberto

[zela]

Guéant : "Nous allons vendre des Rafale"
Source : AFP
18/06/2008 | Mise à jour : 09:30 |
.
Le secrétaire général de l'Elysée Claude Guéant a déclaré aujourd'hui sur Europe 1 que la France avait des "espoirs sérieux" de vendre "une centaine" d'avions de combat Rafale.

"La France est en négociations avec des espoirs sérieux, effectivement, de vendre une centaine de Rafale. Enfin après 23 ans, nous allons vendre des Rafale".

M. Guéant n'a pas précisé quels étaient les pays acheteurs potentiels du Rafale. Parmi les pays qui ont manifesté de l'intérêt pour le Rafale figurent la Libye et les Emirats arabes unis.

Les Emirats ont annoncé début juin qu'ils étudiaient "sérieusement" le remplacement à partir de 2013 de leurs 63 Mirage 2000 français par l'avion de combat polyvalent de Dassault.

Fonte: LeFigaro

[Penguin]

Non-Subscriber Extract
Business analysis: What next for Dassault's Rafale?
By Craig Caffrey
20 June 2008

The French White Paper on defence and national security published on 17 June appears to point to a significant reduction in the number of Dassault Rafale F3 multirole fighters that will be ordered by the French Air Force.

The document announces plans to decrease the number of combat aircraft across both the navy and air force down to a mix of 300 Rafales and upgraded Mirage 2000Ds. Given that plans exist to upgrade at least 50 Mirages under a mid-life upgrade (MLU) programme announced by the Délégation Générale pour l'Armement (DGA) in 2002, it now appears possible that the Rafale order will be limited to 250 platforms at the most.

This figure represents a decrease of at least 44 aircraft or 15 per cent of the originally intended order. Jane's Defence Forecasts estimates this will reduce the value of the contract by between USD3.4 billion and USD3.7 billion. Furthermore, if the Mirage 2000 MLU is expanded to incorporate additional aircraft then these figures could rise further. So far, contracts are in place for 120 aircraft including 38 for the navy.

Given that the navy's Super Etendard fighter aircraft will need to be replaced by the navalised Rafale M, necessitating the full 60-aircraft purchase, it appears that the reduction in platforms will come from the air force order.

Clarification on the issue of how many Rafales the DGA now plans to order is likely, Jane's understands, to come as part of a capability review that will follow the White Paper. French Defence Minister Hervé Morin has highlighted the importance of this review as existing projects such as the Rafale, NH90 helicopter and Tiger attack helicopter are expected to place considerable strain on the defence budget between 2009-11 as production schedules for these programmes accelerate.

In July 2007 Morin stated his belief that the current budget would need to be increased by as much as 43 per cent to accommodate the spending commitments expected in this period, warning that "a certain number of difficult decisions and tough choices" will have to be made on which future programmes continue, are deferred or delayed.

News contained in the White Paper that French defence-procurement spending will be increased from the current level of EUR15.5 billion (USD24 billion) per year to EUR18 billion a year between 2009-20 will serve to ease some of Morin's concerns. However, the White Paper's revelations suggest this is unlikely to prevent cuts to a number of key programmes including the Rafale.

Image: A Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft at the Paris Air Show 2005. (Jane's/Patrick Allen)

412 of 1,062 words
© 2008 Jane's Information Group

[Bourne]

Acredito, a cada dia mais, que a FAB ir de Rafale pode virar um problema. Não pelo caça em si, mas por outros problemas.

[Penguin]

Como fica o Acordo Brasil - Franca, com a OTAN no meio?


NATO Welcomes French Decision to Rejoin Military Command German Radio | Jun 19, 2008

NATO has welcomed President Nicolas Sarkozy's announcement that France is to fully reintegrate into the military alliance in a significant shift away from French exceptionalism.

NATO on Tuesday, June 17, welcomed French President Nicolas Sarkozy's announcement that France had decided its future security is best guaranteed within Europe and the NATO military alliance and his plans for an overhaul of the military.

"The secretary general welcomes the announcement by French President Sarkozy that there are no obstacles to France rejoining the integrated command," NATO spokesman James Appathurai said on Tuesday, June 17.

The White House likewise embraced the move. "We welcome the announcement," Gordon Johndroe, White House national security spokesman, said.

Stephen Hadley, President George W. Bush's national security adviser, said in April at the NATO summit in Bucharest that Bush was in favor of France coming back into the integrated command, and generally favored European partners boosting capacities for EU and NATO missions.

Hadley "made it very clear that the United States wants a strong partner in Europe, wants a strong EU partner, and that involves both more military capability for those countries, but also partnering NATO's military capability with EU civilian and political capabilities," Johndroe added.

A return to NATO military command

France announced a return to NATO on Tuesday, 42 years after former President Charles de Gaulle left the alliance it helped found, angry at what he saw as the Anglo-American dominance of the alliance.

"I want the alliance to be more European, and how can we have a more European alliance without France," said Sarkozy.

The president announced his country’s return while outlining France’s defense priorities over the next 15 years, during which, he said, terrorism would be the number one threat. Sarkozy said the military must put a new emphasis on security within France's borders and adapt to modern challenges from terrorism to computer attacks.

Underscoring the focus on intelligence-gathering, a new national security council will be set up at Elysee Palace.

Sarkozy urged a strong European defence policy and said France would revamp ties with NATO. But he insisted that France would always retain control of its own forces and keep independent control of its nuclear deterrent, which would remain the cornerstone of its defence structure.

Leaner, more mobile army

The plan further shows France maintaining defence spending at about two percent of gross domestic product. That means that from now until 2020, some 377 billion euros ($579.1 billion) will be spent on defense (excluding pensions).

In order to create a more mobile and better-equipped military, the proposals also call for a cutting back of thousands of troops. The air force, for example, would be cut from 65,000 to 50,000. Four permanent bases in Africa would also be closed as defense aims shift.

Former NATO head and EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana welcomed the reforms.

"I think the armed forces of several countries are very big on paper. But what is needed are forces that are available, even if there's no need for millions of soldiers, forces that are available in a real way, with proper equipment," he said.

Despite the country’s individual cuts, the new strategy is said to showcase the government’s desire to make European defense a priority once France takes over the EU’s rotating presidency beginning July 1. As part of the plan, Sarkozy called for the establishment of a European rapid intervention force of 60,000 soldiers.

Until recently, the United States and Britain have been reluctant to strengthen European defenses, concerned that such a move would prove expensive and duplicate NATO capabilities.

Critics fear loss of French foreign policy independence

Though France continues to play a role in decision-making bodies, it is not part of the integrated command structure. French troops have taken part in NATO operations over the last several decades. In the 1990s, France sent troops to the Balkans. Two years ago, troops went to Pakistan to help with disaster relief work following the earthquake.

France likewise has a contingent in the NATO-led security force in Afghanistan; Sarkozy has committed to expanding that, sending some 700 soldiers to the volatile east to help with operations in the war-torn country.

Still, questions remained about how exactly France would re-enter the fray. "Obviously, it's up to France exactly how and when it wants to resume its full participation in NATO structures," said Appathurai.

In France, however, not all were excited about the announcement.

Several members of Sarkozy's own ruling party have protested what they see as a loss of France’s hallmark independence in foreign policy -- a betrayal of de Gaulle's legacy.

Members of the opposition Socialist party likewise criticized the move, accusing the president, the most Atlanticist French president in recent years, of sucking up to Washington.

Sarkozy hit back at his critics. "We can renew our relations with NATO without fear for our independence and without running the risk of being unwillingly dragged into a war."

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France to Overhaul Military, May Rejoin NATO
Voice of America News | Jun 19, 2008

PARIS: French President Nicolas Sarkozy announced a major overhaul of the country's defense to better meet new threats like terrorism. Mr. Sarkozy also announced France was ready to rejoin NATO's military wing, after a four-decade absence.

President Sarkozy presented France's new defense strategy in a much awaited speech, outlining a leaner military that he argued would be better equipped to respond to terrorism, missile attacks and other modern-day threats.

Mr. Sarkozy said that six or seven years from now, French forces will total 225,000. He acknowledged that amounted to a steep cut from their current level of 270,000, and that bases would be closed. But he vowed to make France even stronger militarily than it is today.

While Mr. Sarkozy said the government was looking for cost cutting measures, he also said it would spend roughly $4.6 billion more annually to equip its forces.

The French president also said France aims to soon return to NATO's military command after pulling out in 1966.

Mr. Sarkozy said those who authored the defense report saw no reason why France should not participate in NATO's defense wing. He said France would retain complete freedom on deciding whether or not to participate in military operations and officials say it would remain in control of its nuclear-defense program.

Mr. Sarkozy has also emphasized building up the EU military capabilities, and had been expected to push this when France takes over the bloc's rotating presidency next month. But he may now face a roadblock, since Ireland rejected the EU treaty that is aimed to further integrate Europe, including its defense strategy.

http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish ... 016034.php

[Carlos Mathias]

É rapaz... A França assim fica menos independente. Apesar que não creio seja lá uma grande mudança.

[Immortal Horgh]

Acredito, a cada dia mais, que a FAB ir de Rafale pode virar um problema. Não pelo caça em si, mas por outros problemas.

Meu maior receio nem é tanto com relação ao RBE 2, mas com a manutenção ao longo dos anos. Com um número reduzido, ficará cada vez mais caro manter. Mesmo que compremos uns 150 aviões (120 para a FAB e 30 para a MB), teríamos cerca de 400 no total, o Typhoon por exemplo, tem quase o dobro de pedidos.



[ ]s

[Tigershark]

Acredito, a cada dia mais, que a FAB ir de Rafale pode virar um problema. Não pelo caça em si, mas por outros problemas.

Meu maior receio nem é tanto com relação ao RBE 2, mas com a manutenção ao longo dos anos. Com um número reduzido, ficará cada vez mais caro manter. Mesmo que compremos uns 150 aviões (120 para a FAB e 30 para a MB), teríamos cerca de 400 no total, o Typhoon por exemplo, tem quase o dobro de pedidos.



[ ]s

A preocupação é pertinente,principalmente em relação à cadeia logística dos franceses e os custos envolvidos nela.Será que vamos continuar com os vôos de nossos cargueiros entre Brasil e França?

[Plinio Jr]

Meu maior receio nem é tanto com relação ao RBE 2, mas com a manutenção ao longo dos anos. Com um número reduzido, ficará cada vez mais caro manter. Mesmo que compremos uns 150 aviões (120 para a FAB e 30 para a MB), teríamos cerca de 400 no total, o Typhoon por exemplo, tem quase o dobro de pedidos.

[ ]s

Isto não se aplica somente ao Rafale, tem outros candidatos em igual ou pior situação ...

[Carlos Mathias]

Nããããã ... "Os outros candidatos" tem uma linha que já passou de mil aeronaves vendidas, seus sistemas vão ser empregados num caça de 5ºG por três países(espero), e além de tudo isso, sendo 120 peças, poderá ser feito aqui.

[Plinio Jr]

Verdade...tem um que é uma maravilha e até o presente momento, ninguem sabe quem vai usar, quantos irão comprar....mas transferem tudo, na faixa....

[Carlos Mathias]

Sabe sim, você ainda não leu? O país de origem já encomendou 50 inicialmente, tem um outro país que vai querer uns 120,e fora os MLU em modelos anteriores que podem usar tudo deste, e vice-versa.

Agora, raio-X da mão do cara que assina, carta patente, registro em cartório e etc, nada disso eu tenho. Mas seria estranho tanta gente mentindo mundo afora , não?

Falar nisso, tem um candidato que acabou de receber uma poda de 50 unidades, soubeste?