Fórum Defesa Brasil

Frente parlamentar multipartidária quer disseminar cultura de Defesa no país

Brasília (5/11/2008) - A criação nesta quarta-feira (5/11) da Frente Parlamentar da Defesa Nacional confirma que a questão da defesa saiu da agenda exclusiva militar e foi inserida no debate nacional, com o destaque que o tema deve ter. Foi a avaliação feita pelo ministro da Defesa, Nelson Jobim, na cerimônia que lançou oficialmente a frente em almoço realizado no Clube Naval. “O que é importante é ser uma frente pluripartidária, onde são encontrados todos os segmentos da Câmara, mostrando claramente que a questão da Defesa não é uma questão político-partidária, nem uma questão de governo, é um problema da nação. E isso é importante para nós. Mostra o apoio que o Congresso Nacional está dando às ações das Forças Armadas”, disse Jobim.

A Frente Parlamentar será presidida pelo deputado Raul Jungman (PPS-PE), que foi o autor da proposta, e terá como diretores os deputados Aldo Rebelo (PCdoB-SP), Ibsen Pinheiro (PMDB-RS), Michel Temer (PMDB-SP) e José Genoíno (PT-SP).

Ao discursar no evento, o ministro ressaltou que o caráter multipartidário da Frente mostra um amadurecimento político do país. “Essa é uma frente multipartidária, onde se encontra esquerda e direita, em uma definição não significativa no Brasil hoje, que se encontra alguém que foi preso pelas Forças Armadas no período militar, como o deputado José Genoíno, e outros que também falavam e afirmavam a necessidade daqueles atos. Por quê? Porque nós não estamos falando com o passado, estamos sim na busca de um grande ajuste de contas do Brasil com seu futuro. E o espectro disso representa nitidamente a necessidade de pensarmos o Brasil e sua grandeza”, disse Jobim.

O ministro afirmou ainda que a Defesa é o escudo do desenvolvimento nacional e da capacidade de uma presença não submissa do Brasil no contexto das nações. “É por isso que passamos a discutir a Defesa não mais como uma questão exclusivamente militar, mas como uma questão política de altíssima relevância nacional. Jobim lembrou que são os militares que têm a capacidade de discutir as probabilidades estratégicas de ações militares, mas o governo civil não pode fugir da responsabilidade de definir as hipóteses de emprego das Forças Armadas. Segundo Jobim, o Ministério da Defesa trabalha na integração dos dois lados.

O deputado Raul Jungman, presidente da Frente Parlamentar, destacou que a promoção de uma “cultura de defesa” - moderna, democrática, nacional e soberana - é a razão de ser maior da constituição da Frente Parlamentar. Na avaliação do deputado, a definição do novo Plano Nacional de Defesa é uma oportunidade única para se iniciar o processo de disseminação de uma cultura de defesa no país, compatível com o grau de desenvolvimento alcançado pelo Brasil que, entre 200 nações, detém o 10º PIB do mundo.

“Donde propomos, para discussão, que ele seja submetido à análise e deliberação do Congresso Nacional e que, de quatro em quatro anos, coincidentemente com o mandato presidencial, seja o Plano revisto, atualizado e submetido a crivo parlamentar, como forma de ampliar responsabilidades do Congresso no tocante à defesa e respaldar as decisões do Executivo em matéria do mais elevado interesse nacional”, sugeriu Jungman.

O deputado ressaltou a urgência de se desenvolver o pensamento estratégico nacional como meio de o Brasil superar dependências e avançar na formulação de políticas científicas na área tecnológica. “A formação e qualificação de quadros, o desenvolvimento de programas e projetos, além do imprescindível suporte de conhecimentos, reflexão e informações requerem a atuação engajada das nossas universidades em consonância com os interesses e prioridades definidos pela área da defesa”, completou.

Entre os objetivos da Frente Parlamentar estão as relações internacionais do Brasil na área de defesa, com destaque para o Conselho Sul-Americano de Defesa, direitos humanos e política de defesa nacional. O papel e a organização da Defesa Nacional e das Forças Armadas, a elaboração do Livro Branco da Defesa Nacional e o aumento da cooperação entre o Congresso Nacional e a Defesa.

Prestigiaram o lançamento da Frente Parlamentar, o Comandante do Exército, General de Exército Enzo Martins Peri, o Almirante de Esquadra Aurélio Ribeiro da Silva Filho, chefe do Estado Maior da Armada no exercício do Comando da Armada, o Comandante da Aeronáutica, Tenente Brigadeiro do Ar, Juniti Saito, o secretário de Ensino, Logística, Mobilização, Ciência e Tecnologia (SELOM) do Ministério da Defesa, General de Exército José Carlos de Nardi, o secretário de Organização Institucional (SEORI) do Ministério, Ari Matos, o secretário da Secretaria de Aviação Civil (SAC), Jorge Godinho Barreto Nery, e o Almirante de Esquadra Prado Maia, chefe do Estado Maior de Defesa do Ministério da Defesa.

Texto: Cristiana Nepomuceno
Fotos:Elio Sales
Assessoria de Comunicação
Ministério da Defesa
(61) 3312-4070/4071

Em: https://www.defesa.gov.br/mostra_materi ... ERIA=32574

USAF critiques Indian SU-30 Red Flag actions

USAF Pilot Critiques Red Flag Action

Nov 5, 2008
David A. Fulghum and Graham Warwick

Indian pilots flying Su-30MKIs are extremely professional, but they're still learning how to best fight with their new aircraft.

That opinion comes from an unidentified, senior F-15 pilot taped while briefing senior retired U.S. Air Force officers about the most recent Red Flag exercise. The video was made available online at YouTube.com.

The French pilots flying the new Dassault Rafale appeared to be there to collect electronic intelligence on the Indian aircraft, contends the USAF pilot, who wears an Air Force Weapons School graduate patch.

The French were originally going to bring the older Mirage 2000-5 until they discovered the Indians were bringing their new Su-30MKIs, the pilot says. They then switched and brought their Rafales with more sophisticated electronic surveillance equipment.

Once at Red Flag, "90 percent of the time they followed the Indians so when they took a shot or got shot" they would take a quick shot of their own and then leave," he said. "They never came to any merges," which starts the dogfighting portion of any air-to-air combat. He asserts that French pilots followed the same procedure during Desert Storm and Peace Keeping exercises. When U.S. aircrews were flying operations, the French would fly local sorties while "sucking up all the trons" to see how U.S. electronics, like radars, worked, according to the pilot.

He praised the Indians as extremely professional and said they had no training rule violations. However, they "killed a lot of friendlies" because they were tied to a Russian-made data link system that didn't allow them to see the picture of the battlefield available to everyone else. The lack of combat identification of the other aircraft caused confusion.

But the U.S. apparently isn't ignorant of the Su-30MKI's radar either.

The Su-30 electronically scanned radar is not as accurate as the U.S.-built active electronically scanned radar carried by the F-22 and some F-15s. Also, "it paints less, sees less" and is not as discriminating.

He praised the F-22 as the next great dogfighter. But he faulted the fact that it carries too few missiles and contends that the on-board cannon could be a life-saver, particularly against aircraft like the MiG-21 Bison flown by the Indians. It has a small radar cross section, as well as an Israeli-made F-16 radar and jammer. The latter makes them "almost invisible to legacy F-15C and F-16 radars" until the aerial merge or until it fires one of its Archer, active radar missiles, the U.S. pilot says.

Against the much larger RCS Su-30MKI, the F-16s and F-15s won consistently during the first three days of air-to-air combat, he continues. However, that was the result of trying to immediately go into a post-stall, thrust-vectored turn when attacked. The turn then creates massive drag and the aircraft starts sinking and losing altitude. "It starts dropping so fast you don't have to go vertical [first]. The low-speed tail slide allowed the U.S. aircraft to dive from above and "get one chance to come down to shoot," the pilot says. "You go to guns and drill his brains out." The Su-30 is jamming your missiles so...you go to guns and drill his brains out."

U.S. pilots conclude that the Su-30MKI is "not [an F-22] Raptor," he further says. "That was good for us to find out." But when the Indian pilots really learn to fight their new aircraft - "they were too anxious to go to the post-stall maneuver," he says-- the USAF pilot predicts that they would regularly defeat the F-16C Block 50 and the F-15C with conventional radar.

A final weakness in the Su-30MKI was its engine's vulnerability to foreign object damage which required them to space takeoffs a minute apart and slowed mission launches.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... el=defense

Tem uma discussão interessante rolando nesse tópico do MP.net: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... p?t=145512

BARAK escreveu:

USAF critiques Indian SU-30 Red Flag actions

USAF Pilot Critiques Red Flag Action

Nov 5, 2008
David A. Fulghum and Graham Warwick

Indian pilots flying Su-30MKIs are extremely professional, but they're still learning how to best fight with their new aircraft.

That opinion comes from an unidentified, senior F-15 pilot taped while briefing senior retired U.S. Air Force officers about the most recent Red Flag exercise. The video was made available online at YouTube.com.

The French pilots flying the new Dassault Rafale appeared to be there to collect electronic intelligence on the Indian aircraft, contends the USAF pilot, who wears an Air Force Weapons School graduate patch.

The French were originally going to bring the older Mirage 2000-5 until they discovered the Indians were bringing their new Su-30MKIs, the pilot says. They then switched and brought their Rafales with more sophisticated electronic surveillance equipment.

Once at Red Flag, "90 percent of the time they followed the Indians so when they took a shot or got shot" they would take a quick shot of their own and then leave," he said. "They never came to any merges," which starts the dogfighting portion of any air-to-air combat. He asserts that French pilots followed the same procedure during Desert Storm and Peace Keeping exercises. When U.S. aircrews were flying operations, the French would fly local sorties while "sucking up all the trons" to see how U.S. electronics, like radars, worked, according to the pilot.

He praised the Indians as extremely professional and said they had no training rule violations. However, they "killed a lot of friendlies" because they were tied to a Russian-made data link system that didn't allow them to see the picture of the battlefield available to everyone else. The lack of combat identification of the other aircraft caused confusion.

But the U.S. apparently isn't ignorant of the Su-30MKI's radar either.

The Su-30 electronically scanned radar is not as accurate as the U.S.-built active electronically scanned radar carried by the F-22 and some F-15s. Also, "it paints less, sees less" and is not as discriminating.

He praised the F-22 as the next great dogfighter. But he faulted the fact that it carries too few missiles and contends that the on-board cannon could be a life-saver, particularly against aircraft like the MiG-21 Bison flown by the Indians. It has a small radar cross section, as well as an Israeli-made F-16 radar and jammer. The latter makes them "almost invisible to legacy F-15C and F-16 radars" until the aerial merge or until it fires one of its Archer, active radar missiles, the U.S. pilot says.

Against the much larger RCS Su-30MKI, the F-16s and F-15s won consistently during the first three days of air-to-air combat, he continues. However, that was the result of trying to immediately go into a post-stall, thrust-vectored turn when attacked. The turn then creates massive drag and the aircraft starts sinking and losing altitude. "It starts dropping so fast you don't have to go vertical [first]. The low-speed tail slide allowed the U.S. aircraft to dive from above and "get one chance to come down to shoot," the pilot says. "You go to guns and drill his brains out." The Su-30 is jamming your missiles so...you go to guns and drill his brains out."

U.S. pilots conclude that the Su-30MKI is "not [an F-22] Raptor," he further says. "That was good for us to find out." But when the Indian pilots really learn to fight their new aircraft - "they were too anxious to go to the post-stall maneuver," he says-- the USAF pilot predicts that they would regularly defeat the F-16C Block 50 and the F-15C with conventional radar.

A final weakness in the Su-30MKI was its engine's vulnerability to foreign object damage which required them to space takeoffs a minute apart and slowed mission launches.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... el=defense

Tem uma discussão interessante rolando nesse tópico do MP.net: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... p?t=145512

Pode até ser que os Indianos ainda estão aprendendo, mas os caras não perderiam um chance de meter o pau no equipamento Russo.
Por que não falaram mal dos Gripens ou dos Rafales e ate mesmos dos F5M?
Sera que so deu errado com os Indianos?

Esse título é bem desconexo, visto que a crítica foi mesmo é pros franceses.

E comparar SU-30MKI com F-22 é dose. Já perdeu a credibilidade aí nessa comparação ridícula.

Carlos Mathias escreveu:E comparar SU-30MKI com F-22 é dose. Já perdeu a credibilidade aí nessa comparação ridícula.

Sei lá CM, mas não interpretei dessa maneira. Vi foi uma crítica crua da situação dos Su-30, dos fratricídios por talvez falta de doutrina Indiana, das perdas dos combates pros F-15 ou F-16 ou F-22 (não se sabe ao certo), dos problemas dos FOD, etc...
Alguns já haviam falado coisas do genero e eu tb já ouvi coisas do tipo que os russos não conseguem comprovar o que está escrito nos folders. Pra FAB já ia ser um problema logístico a começar pelas simples fontes de força que nem num C-130 não cabem... devem ter mais coisas que descartaram tais equipamentos da disputa.
Abraços

parte 2

Engraçado ver a visão dos russófilos...
Mas torcida cada qual tem a sua, é isso aí. Certamente se nos dessem uns bichinhos desses iríamos extrair até o bagaço.
Abraços, sem ressentimentos pessoal.

Bem Thor, é uma crítica ao Rafale também, não é? Eu creio que nenhum de nós aqui seria incompetente ao ponto de fazer uma comparação de um SU-30 com um F-22. É comparar laranja com beterraba.

Vi foi uma crítica crua da situação dos Su-30, dos fratricídios por talvez falta de doutrina Indiana, das perdas dos combates pros F-15 ou F-16 ou F-22 (não se sabe ao certo), dos problemas dos FOD, etc...

Situação ou atuação dos SU-30? Há um pequeno mas fundamental detalhe nessa atuação.

they "killed a lot of friendlies" because they were tied to a Russian-made data link system that didn't allow them to see the picture of the battlefield available to everyone else.

Só isso. O datalink deles não se comunicava com nenhum dos sistemas ali em uso. Logo, ele e somente eles não tinham informações importantíssimas. Se eu tenho um AWACS me informando quem é quem, se eu tenho radares em terra e nos caças me repasando a situação tática, se eu tenho uma simbologia e etc, etc, etc, tudo isso junto me dando consciência situacional, e outro cara não, a lógica mais elementar vei me dizer que esse "cego" vai errar bem mais. Não precisa ser capitão americano prá saber disso, basta ver que mesmo eu, um leigo, sei.

Alguns já haviam falado coisas do genero e eu tb já ouvi coisas do tipo que os russos não conseguem comprovar o que está escrito nos folders.

Só eles? Também já ouvi muitas vezes que um dos favoritos ao FX-2 não cumpre nem parte das promessas. Vai saber, né?

Pra FAB já ia ser um problema logístico a começar pelas simples fontes de força que nem num C-130 não cabem... devem ter mais coisas que descartaram tais equipamentos da disputa.
Abraços

Olha Thor, o que eu vejo de fato são forças aéreas bem mais pobres operando e até guerreando com esses aviões. Vejo que ao menos duas potências regionais os escolheram, fabricam e operam. Vejo que eles continuam vendendo melhor (bem melhor) que alguns aviões que "cumprem promessas de folder".
Enfim, vamos achar estórias e histórias de problemas em todo lugar. Leia o que o Juarez Castro fala dos franceses e nem perfume deles você compra mais.
Leia as histórias (não são estórias) sobre problemas com os EUA e nunca mais vamos entrar num McDonald's. Tudo bem que operamos um museu aéreo deles, mas isso não conta, né? FAer de relíquias não conta.
A Suécia é um caso clássico com seu TP-2000, mas nem por isso descartamos o Gripen-NG. E eles não cumpriram folder, descumpriram foi contratos. Tudo bem, alguns acham que o fato deles terem pago uma multa os recolocam no paraíso, o que deve ser correto.

Fontes de força... Será que não há nada no mundo que possa substituir?
Sei lá, tem tanta força aérea de respeito que os opera mesmo com "fontes de força que nem num C-130 não cabem"...
Mas enfim, a FAB não quis e ponto final, né?

FOD em caças russos? Nunca tinha ouvido falar. Prá quê aqueles pára-lamas? Se um F-16 chupa-pedras decola, um SU-30 também vai decolar.

Abraços!

Stallone

I actually dont think so. I think he is a poor reflection on what is otherwise a great airforce. He is talking to some senior most people about the IAF capabilities, when his whole speech is filled with inaccuracies.

1. MiG-21 Bison radar is Russian, Kyopo-21 not Israeli
2. Su-30MKI doesnt have Tumansaky Engines, rather the AL-31FP Lubyanka NPO Saturn Engines
3. To think a force which has a history as long as 75 years, follows the western and british traditions in particular to be some un-proffessional bunch boys.
4. Has he ever considered, when the SU-30MKI falls out of the sky, what is the most potent weapon in its arsenel, IRST Short Range Missile cued by the HMS doing?
5. IAF is in foreign territory, it doesnt carry much spares nor does it machines carry in similarity of parts with US machines, so why should they risk FOD
6. This proves, as he himself agrees that Indians thrashed the Americans in Cope-India 2005
7. He is comparing the Su-30MKI to Raptor throughout the episode, this is what is suprising me. He already says it is as a system above 15's and 16's.
8. Indians uses K-DlAE/TKS-2-27 system for datalink, therefore they never had any realtime info, only an American Accented AWACS controller calling IFF.
9. Indians in Mountain AFB, was fighting the against the creme de la creme of US Airforce, the Red Forces. And if as the speaker says, Indians held on pretty well. Then well done Indians!!!!!!
10. Has anyone considered that Indians might also be looking for the weakness of the 16 and 15 series. trying to figure them out!

Quote:
Midav

Quote:
1. You're correct.
2. Correct again.
3. I don't see how that was said. He even praised the IAF.
4. Can't speak for the man but from what he claims, a number were shot down, so the USAF guys must have known what they were doing.
5. There have been many foreign AF's to Red Flag as well.
6. Was discussed many times on mp.net.
7. Because the F-22 would be the front line fighter facing the SU-27 series in the event of hostilities... let's say, hypothetically, China.
8. And thus causing confusion in what I am speculating was often a fast paced battle environment.
9. Congrats to the IAF, indeed!! Or anyone that can hold their own against aggressors
10. It's not been the first time the IAF has flown against either aircraft afaik.

3. He says he expected the Indians to be unproffessional. Shows his lack of intellect in learning of histories of Airforces.
4. That is because the Indians used their Radar's BARS PESA N011P in Training Mode, not to mention they didnt use the IRST Missile.
5. Yes, Which is why Rafale had very low turn around times, refer Sagar Pathak's review on Indian Ground Crew.
6. Saying it was all Politics(Congress Funding) for Raptors, this Speaker says otherwise
7. Maybe one should wait for PAK-FA, Raptor and MKI is incomparable in my opinion, yet the Speaker says though Raptor is better, they still have a chance? Which is interesting
8. Yes, It agains shows how good the Indians were, even with all their limitations and unfamiliarity with Red Flag, I wonder how they are going to perform when they get their Phalcon AWACS, and their AFNET is up and running!
10. It is the first time for SU-30MKI, earlier it was the SU-30K, Jagaurs and MiG-21s and Mirages 2000 TH
11. The average age of the IAF pilots participating in the Red Flag was 24.
12. He is wrong about the transfer of MiG-21 Bison pilots being the most experienced(did he base it on the age of the aircraft, lol) is wrong. Indians dont have elite squadrons as such! All of the people are distributed as per opening. Every Sqaudron has experienced as well as young members, with young members being in larger numbers.



It was stupid for him and his counter parts to assume Indians to be some tinpot airforce, not to mention just because they use Russian equipment(top of the line) they will use Soviet Tactics. This kind of unproffessionalism at one point of time was unforgivable in the US Airforce, I dont know what is happening now?

Midav

Quote:
1. I am not branding all pilots, but many can be cocky. Confidence can be good.... Overconfidence can be bad. A general rule for life

2. That's news to me if true. Much how aircraft were limited in Cope India but that is #6.

3. Rafale is only one of dozens and dozens of aircraft that have partaken over the decades.

4. Already been talked about.

5. PAK-AF is in the future. F-22 vs SU-27 series would be now should a war break out. I pray that does not happen.

6. Just like any AF that comes to a new exercise am sure they did well

7. So they have experience against said aircraft. As the pilot stated, many SU pilots were former MiG-21 pilots. It's a probability they engaged F-15/16's then.

8. I have no idea what the average age was. However, he was talking experience and flight hours. He said 50-50 between experienced pilots and rookies?

9. That's news to me if true.

I do enjoy the civility this debate has taken and the opinions exchanged
1. We all love Maverick, I am sure the Indians are doing the same in their own de-brief. But that is not my point of contention, the sheer number of errors in his speech, very schoolboyish and not to mention to the higher ups of the US Airforce, and Airforce Magazine has already written an article on this, this guy is full of hot air, yet his title and position gives him a lot of crediblity. Not to mention his complete dis-respect for the french, this isnt school yard.

2. Those are well reported in the media, i could give you links

3. Yes, But they had similar problems, and he is right about Indians have to send back the engines to Russia. My point was the reason why Indians did it.

4. Yes, but those talks were quite unapperciate of the IAF, this admission by the speaker should silence that. IAF did really well in Cope India

5. Agreed, If that is case, as the Speaker said the MKI is a formiddable machine.

6. For an airforce coming for the first time, and not used to many technologies, they did more than 'just as well'.

7. He is wrong on that count, very few have transffered from the Bisons, since they are in operational service till 2020. Most of them have transffered from retired MiG-23 and MiG-21 Bis. Even then the average age is 26-27. The WSO is the most important person in the Su-30MKI not the pilot.

8. I didnt get that. 50-50,how?

9. It is true.

Same here, I am not in the IAF "D" Great or USAF invincible bandwagons. I am sure both airforces learnt quite a lot.

PS: He is also wrong about the F-15K Radar.


http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums...d.php?t=145477

Como eu disse, o cara falou foi é um monte de besteiras, coisas de leigo mesmo.

Venezuela's huge arms buildup

The Mil Mi-28 attack helicopter.
by John Sweeney
Caracas, Venezuela (UPI) Oct 31, 2008
Venezuela is buying from Russia between 10 and 12 Mi-28NEs -- Havoc or Night Hunter -- helicopters.
The Mil Mi-28s will replace seven aged OV-10 Broncos currently deployed with Special Operations Air Group 15 at Maracaibo's Gen. Rafael Urdaneta Air Base. Venezuelan defense officials boast that the FNAB will be Russia's first foreign client for this day/night all-weather attack helicopter.

Venezuela's air force purchased 36 Sukhoi Su-30 "Flanker-C" fighters in 2006 and 2007, of which 24 already are in service and the remaining 12 will be delivered before the end of 2009. However, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez also has placed an order for 24 Sukhoi Su-35 "Flanker-E" fighters with delivery starting by 2010.

After the U.S. State Department thwarted Venezuela's plans to buy Spanish military air transports in 2006, Chavez purchased from Russia 10 Ilyushin IL-76E (NATO designation Candid) troop/cargo transports and two Ilyushin IL-78 (NATO designation Midas) in-flight tankers with the capacity to refuel three aircraft simultaneously.

These transport aircraft will be delivered between fourth quarter 2008 and the end of 2009, giving the FNAB the largest strategic air lift capacity in Latin America, defense procurement officials say.

However, the arms purchases Venezuela made between 2005 and 2008 are only the start of a bilateral military and security alliance between Caracas and Moscow potentially worth billions of dollars in future sales by Russian arms manufacturers.

During Chavez's latest visit to Moscow on Sept. 25-26, his third trip this year, Russian Prime Minister and former president Vladimir Putin agreed to expand Venezuelan-Russian military cooperation. Underscoring Venezuela's importance to Moscow as a major client for Russian weapons, Chavez was granted $1 billion in credit to finance more arms purchases.

The first item on Chavez's arms shopping list is between 20 and 30 TOR-M1 9M330 air defense missile systems. Venezuela's president also wants at least three diesel-powered Varshavyanka (NATO designation Kilo) class submarines.

Venezuelan defense sources say Chavez also wants to replace the army's obsolescent French-built AMX-30 main battle tanks with between 50 and 100 Russian-built T-90 battle tanks. The T-90 is the most modern main battle tank in the Russian army's arsenal. The Venezuelan army also wants to buy at least 100 Russian-made light tanks and armored fighting vehicles, and up to 400 BMP-3 armored personnel carriers.

The Chavez government also is expanding defense and security ties with China. During his visit to Beijing on Sept. 24, Chavez signed an agreement to purchase 24 Chinese-made K-8 light attack aircraft, which Venezuelan air force officials say will be used for training purposes. The K-8s, which are scheduled to arrive in Venezuela during 2009, will operate from the Teniente Vicente Landaeta Gil Air Base near the city of Barquisimeto in Lara state.

China also is supplying Venezuela's air force with 10 long-range JYL-1 radars, three of which are already operating at Paraguana and Mene Mauroa in Falcon state near state-owned Petroleos de Venezuela's 940,000 b/d Paraguana refining complex, and in Apure state near Venezuela's border with Colombia. The air force expects to achieve almost 100 percent radar coverage of Venezuela's national territory by 2013 when all 10 radars are installed and operational.

Spain's Navantia shipyard at Cadiz is building eight seagoing vessels for Venezuela's navy, including four coastal patrol boats -- 39 dwt -- equipped with a helicopter deck aft and Oerlikon Contraves DMN 0008 Millennium 35mm anti-aircraft guns. But Venezuelan navy officials say the patrol boats probably also could be armed with air and anti-ship missiles, or heavier guns forward.

The other four vessels Navantia is building are missile-capable frigates which Venezuelan navy officials describe as "similar in design" to Venezuela's Italian-made Lupo frigates, which have been in use for about 30 years.

P44 escreveu:Venezuela's huge arms buildup

The Mil Mi-28 attack helicopter.
by John Sweeney
Caracas, Venezuela (UPI) Oct 31, 2008
Venezuela is buying from Russia between 10 and 12 Mi-28NEs -- Havoc or Night Hunter -- helicopters.
The Mil Mi-28s will replace seven aged OV-10 Broncos currently deployed with Special Operations Air Group 15 at Maracaibo's Gen. Rafael Urdaneta Air Base. Venezuelan defense officials boast that the FNAB will be Russia's first foreign client for this day/night all-weather attack helicopter.

Venezuela's air force purchased 36 Sukhoi Su-30 "Flanker-C" fighters in 2006 and 2007, of which 24 already are in service and the remaining 12 will be delivered before the end of 2009. However, Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez also has placed an order for 24 Sukhoi Su-35 "Flanker-E" fighters with delivery starting by 2010.

After the U.S. State Department thwarted Venezuela's plans to buy Spanish military air transports in 2006, Chavez purchased from Russia 10 Ilyushin IL-76E (NATO designation Candid) troop/cargo transports and two Ilyushin IL-78 (NATO designation Midas) in-flight tankers with the capacity to refuel three aircraft simultaneously.

These transport aircraft will be delivered between fourth quarter 2008 and the end of 2009, giving the FNAB the largest strategic air lift capacity in Latin America, defense procurement officials say.

However, the arms purchases Venezuela made between 2005 and 2008 are only the start of a bilateral military and security alliance between Caracas and Moscow potentially worth billions of dollars in future sales by Russian arms manufacturers.

During Chavez's latest visit to Moscow on Sept. 25-26, his third trip this year, Russian Prime Minister and former president Vladimir Putin agreed to expand Venezuelan-Russian military cooperation. Underscoring Venezuela's importance to Moscow as a major client for Russian weapons, Chavez was granted $1 billion in credit to finance more arms purchases.

The first item on Chavez's arms shopping list is between 20 and 30 TOR-M1 9M330 air defense missile systems. Venezuela's president also wants at least three diesel-powered Varshavyanka (NATO designation Kilo) class submarines.

Venezuelan defense sources say Chavez also wants to replace the army's obsolescent French-built AMX-30 main battle tanks with between 50 and 100 Russian-built T-90 battle tanks. The T-90 is the most modern main battle tank in the Russian army's arsenal. The Venezuelan army also wants to buy at least 100 Russian-made light tanks and armored fighting vehicles, and up to 400 BMP-3 armored personnel carriers.

The Chavez government also is expanding defense and security ties with China. During his visit to Beijing on Sept. 24, Chavez signed an agreement to purchase 24 Chinese-made K-8 light attack aircraft, which Venezuelan air force officials say will be used for training purposes. The K-8s, which are scheduled to arrive in Venezuela during 2009, will operate from the Teniente Vicente Landaeta Gil Air Base near the city of Barquisimeto in Lara state.

China also is supplying Venezuela's air force with 10 long-range JYL-1 radars, three of which are already operating at Paraguana and Mene Mauroa in Falcon state near state-owned Petroleos de Venezuela's 940,000 b/d Paraguana refining complex, and in Apure state near Venezuela's border with Colombia. The air force expects to achieve almost 100 percent radar coverage of Venezuela's national territory by 2013 when all 10 radars are installed and operational.

Spain's Navantia shipyard at Cadiz is building eight seagoing vessels for Venezuela's navy, including four coastal patrol boats -- 39 dwt -- equipped with a helicopter deck aft and Oerlikon Contraves DMN 0008 Millennium 35mm anti-aircraft guns. But Venezuelan navy officials say the patrol boats probably also could be armed with air and anti-ship missiles, or heavier guns forward.

The other four vessels Navantia is building are missile-capable frigates which Venezuelan navy officials describe as "similar in design" to Venezuela's Italian-made Lupo frigates, which have been in use for about 30 years.

E o Brasil com seus Matusas e F-5EM até 2015....no mínimo....contra 36 + 24 SU-3X.... Que Deus nos proteja....

[ ]´s

Adriano

Adriano escreveu: E o Brasil com seus Matusas e F-5EM até 2015....no mínimo....contra 36 + 24 SU-3X.... Que Deus nos proteja....

[ ]´s

Adriano

Nosso Bairro está ficando um lugar perigoso...

Até 2015 é possível imaginar que o vizinho teria uns 24 SU em condições de atacar num raio de 1000Km (suposição) enquanto os demais ficariam para defesa.

Isso já é uma força considerável, mas sem muitos lugares no Brasil que valham o desgaste.
O problema é que não podemos deixar que isso seja uma opção da força atacante.
Temos que deixar claro que não vale à pena, mas lamentavelmente nossa capacidade de contra-ataque ainda não está patente.

Nestas horas e pensando no que não temos (mas poderíamos até 2015)...
A12 com 10 Rafales F1 + 9 A4-M + AEW e duas dúzias de A1-M fariam muita diferença.

[]´s

Knight_MSoares

Knight escreveu:

Adriano escreveu: E o Brasil com seus Matusas e F-5EM até 2015....no mínimo....contra 36 + 24 SU-3X.... Que Deus nos proteja....

[ ]´s

Adriano

Nosso Bairro está ficando um lugar perigoso...

Até 2015 é possível imaginar que o vizinho teria uns 24 SU em condições de atacar num raio de 1000Km (suposição) enquanto os demais ficariam para defesa.

Isso já é uma força considerável, mas sem muitos lugares no Brasil que valham o desgaste.
O problema é que não podemos deixar que isso seja uma opção da força atacante.
Temos que deixar claro que não vale à pena, mas lamentavelmente nossa capacidade de contra-ataque ainda não está patente.

Nestas horas e pensando no que não temos (mas poderíamos até 2015)...
A12 com 10 Rafales F1 + 9 A4-M + AEW e duas dúzias de A1-M fariam muita diferença.

[]´s

Knight_MSoares

Acrescente à sacola de compras de Chávez alguns reabastecedores (altamente possível) e os 60 SU teriam como bombardear até nossos pesquisadores na Antártida. Sem oposição.
Dois mil e quinze (chegada dos primeiros F-X) é tarde demais para nós.... além do mais, entre a chegada dos novos aviões e o estabecimento de uma doutrina de emprego, vão mais um par de anos. Ou seja, se tudo correr bem só teremos algum poder de dissuasão a nível regional a partir de 2017! Oito anos de inferioridade pela frente ouvindo o maluco bolivariano falar o que bem entende.

[ ]´s

Adriano