Fórum Defesa Brasil

manuel.liste escreveu:

HIGGINS escreveu:Só para lembrar:
Quando o Antonov-70 estava voando, sem provlema algum, o governo alemão propôs que ele fosse adquirido no lugar de se desenvolver o A400, então um projeto apenas, mas muuuiiiiitoooo dispendioso...
As viúvas européias, na época TODAS DE GOVERNOS CONSERVADORES, começara a berrar: NÃO PODE, NÃO PODE! Os Russos não são confiáveis. São nossos conpetidores, berravam os participantes do CONSÓRCIO AIRBUS...

Tái: enterra dinheiro, enterra dinheiro e nunca basta, sempre se precisa de maior aporte de capital. Se isso num for sacanagem da AIRBUS para se capitalizar, este avião será o maior MICO da indústria aeronautica da europa.

Detalhe: a Antonov é... Ucraniana...

Como sou brasileiro, fico aqui..

Melhor um A-400 caro fabricado em Europa que dez Antonov importados de Ucrânia

Pode ter atraso em seu calendário, mas o avião irá para adiante. Não é o primeiro avião com atrasos em seu desenvolvimento, olhe a história do exitoso C-17.

Uma coisa clara é que as indústrias militares não se constroem importando armas. Daí que os tontos europeios gastemos tanto dinheiro no nosso, nas armas que criam emprego, tecnologia e benefícios em nossos paises, e não em paises vizinhos

nukualofa77 escreveu:Alguns ibéricos (portugueses e espanhóis) parecem ser muito alérgicos ao extremo-leste europeu; falou em eslavos dessas bandas logo enxergam "ostrogodos" ou "hunos" prontos p/assaltar a Europa ocidental ...

HIGGINS escreveu:
Pois é...
A Ucrânia não fica na Europa, fica em Marte!

A400-M: El Micón!
Fato é que a ANTONOV, da "atrasada" Ucrânia (junto com os Russos), projetou e produziu uma aeronave de porte equivalente, com grupo-propulsor igualmente novo, dez anos antes - por um décimo do valor do A-400M

Os Alemães, pragmáticos e enxergando além, visando uma aproximação com Russos e Ucranianos, lançou mão da proposta de se adquirir e adapatr o projeto da Antonov.
Era o que mandava a lógica aplicada à inteligência...
Mas...

Fato é que esta Aeronave (A400M) é um verdadeiro sorvedouro de recursos. Um projeto que não anda, até parece com o programa espacial duma certa nação ao sul do equador...
No entanto, devo dizer: que maneira fantástica de capitalizar uma empresa!

nukualofa77 escreveu:Alguns ibéricos (portugueses e espanhóis) parecem ser muito alérgicos ao extremo-leste europeu; falou em eslavos dessas bandas logo enxergam "ostrogodos" ou "hunos" prontos p/assaltar a Europa ocidental ...

4-Year Delay Expected for A400M
By pierre tran
Published: 17 Mar 15:00 EDT (19:00 GMT)


Paris - The A400M will be four years late for operational duty, and France could cut orders for the airlifter as it looks for "gap fillers" to make up for the delay in delivery, procurement Chief Executive Laurent Collet-Billon said March 17.
France is considering all options for plugging the capability gap as it awaits the A400M. (EADS)

An audit by OCCAR, the European arms agency, shows that the A400M's "operational delay" will be four years, Collet-Billon of the Délégation Générale pour l'Armement (DGA) said at a press conference on the DGA's 2008 results. That is longer than the three-year delay EADS previously announced.
Related Topics



EADS plans to deliver "a first aircraft after three years, with the second aircraft shipped after four years," Collet-Billon said.

EADS is the parent company of Airbus Military, prime contractor for the 20 billion euro ($25.9 billion) program to develop and produce the A400M transport plane for seven European countries.

An EADS spokesman declined to comment.

A "reduction in the target" of orders is one of the options under consideration, Collet-Billon said. There is, however, a threshold below which orders should not fall to ensure the program goes ahead. Cancellation is not an option. "This plane is indispensable," he said.

France has signed up for 50 A400Ms, making it the second-largest client after Germany, which ordered 60 units.

The French Air Force is considering all options for plugging the capability gap, including acquiring a foreign aircraft, bringing forward the A330 multirole tanker transport or leasing German Air Force C-160 Transall transports. "We are looking at all options," he said.

If the German Transalls are leased to the French Air Force, they would need modifications, an EADS executive has said.

Collet-Billon ruled out an interim acquisition of the C-130J because the plane is too small for the loads envisioned. He did not exclude procurement of the C-17 but stopped short of saying the U.S. plane is a possible temporary solution.

"We are looking at leasing certain types of aircraft through NATO," he said. "There are no taboos."

Boeing and Lockheed Martin executives told Defense News at February's IDEX arms show in Abu Dhabi that they have separately offered sale and lease of, respectively, one C-17 and the C-130J to Britain to fill the gap left by the A400M.

"One shouldn't get fixated by this delay," Reuters reported French Defense Minister Hervé Morin as saying. "What is certain is that we need this aircraft. We need to renew a part of our transport fleet that is very old."

Collet-Billon said the European customers are using a three-month contract standstill agreed on March 12 to adopt a position on new specifications, a timetable and parameters for the A400M.

Contract renegotiations will be complicated by clients' different needs. Britain and France require heavy airlift for the Afghan campaign, while Germany has operational life in its Transall fleet.

The A400M is designed as a multimission aircraft with a strategic range, flying larger loads than the C-130, and landing on unprepared landing strips. The most common requirement of European air forces is for hauling cargo rather than tactical missions under hostile conditions.

The contract negotiations are expected to include what specifications would be acceptable in the new delivery schedule. The plane also must pass civil certification, raising the bar for industry.

Collet-Billon said the French Air Force's Transall fleet is "at the end of its tether."

An industry executive said that with careful husbanding of the remaining flight hours, the French Transalls could survive the four-year delay.

EADS sent a letter in December to OCCAR, which manages the A400M contract for the seven European launch customers, saying the A400M would be delivered three years after first flight. But the company could not commit to a date for the maiden flight.

Collet-Billon said the A400M's engines are performing well in the flight test program.

Development of the full authority digital electronic control system, among other things, has held up the first flight, EADS Chief Executive Louis Gallois said March 10.

The seven launch customers are Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Spain and Turkey. Export contracts to Malaysia and South Africa are not thought to be at risk.

France to cut A400M orders?
Written by Reuters
Wednesday, 18 March 2009



Reuters reports France may need to reduce its order for 50 A400M military transport planes from European aerospace group EADS because of development delays.

The A400M programme is running at least four years late, said Laurent Collet-Billon, recently appointed director general of French defence procurement and export agency DGA.

The DGA is looking at the possibility of leasing or buying alternative transport aircraft to meet the shortfall as it struggles to maintain a fleet of ageing transport aircraft in Afghanistan, he said.

"It is one of the alternatives which we have to examine. We have not yet finished examining the capacity gap and that could lead to a reduction in the target (of 50 aircraft)," he said.

He declined to comment on whether France would consider acquiring Boeing's C17 strategic jet-powered airlifter but said he was looking at an aircraft in that category which he declined to identify.

He ruled out buying Lockheed Martin's C130 Hercules, which is smaller than the A400M.

Like Britain, France was studying bringing forward deliveries of combined troop carrying and refuelling aircraft to help meet the gap left by the A400M.

The A400M is a military airlifter being built by EADS's Airbus Military division on behalf of seven NATO nations who have together ordered 180 of the planes. South Africa and Malaysia have ordered a dozen more.

The manufacturer says it is running 3-4 years late amid a dispute with suppliers over engine problems and has asked for more time to finish the project as well as relief on billions of euros of potential delivery penalties.

"One shouldn't get fixated by this delay," French Defence Minister Herve Morin told Reuters on Tuesday. "What is certain is that we need this aircraft. We need to renew a part of our transport fleet that is very old." Morin also said Britain's transport fleet was ageing and needed overhauling.

The NATO countries that initially ordered the plane agreed last week in Prague to call for a three-month moratorium to prevent individual nations walking away from the project.

Speaking after talks between the seven countries that ordered the plane on the sidelines of an EU defence ministers' meeting in Prague, France said they agreed a three-month moratorium to prevent automatic cancellation.

"This moratorium has been accepted by all countries," Morin told Reuters at the time, adding it was agreed that "no state would take a decision without consulting the others."

Spanish Defence Minister Carme Chacon, whose country is responsible for assembling the turboprop-driven heavy airlifter, told Reuters it was vital in order to boost European defence.

"Spain is confident this project will in fact go ahead," she said.

Airbus parent EADS says the A400M project can be cancelled on 1 April 1 if the NATO nations buying the plane decided in unison to walk away.

Germany and Britain have expressed anger over the delivery of the plane, which could lead to billions of euros in penalties.

Airbus has said it would be crippled by the penalties just as it recovers from a crisis over delays to its A380 superjumbo, the world's largest civil airliner. Blame for the delays has triggered a furious row with engine makers.

German Defence Minister Franz Josef Jung told reporters earlier it was possible the project could be scrapped, but Germany wanted to see it go ahead.

"The company must fulfill all the conditions to guarantee the (project) in the manner that we want to and do this transparently so that we know what we have to expect," he said.

Morin said the aim was to reach an agreement with EADS on the moratorium this month.

A source familiar with the talks told Reuters there was general support for keeping the project alive, but individual nations were expected to put maximum pressure on EADS.

A British parliamentary panel last month urged Britain to consider abandoning the project and weigh other options for supplying air transport to combat zones such as Afghanistan.

German Official: Dropping A400M a 'Serious Option'

AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE

FRANKFURT, Germany - German Deputy Defence Minister Ruediger Wolf said March 19 that canceling orders for the problem-plagued Airbus A400M military transport plane was a serious option.

Wolf told the Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper that to bring pressure on Airbus' parent company EADS, "cancellation must be a serious option after a delay of three to six months."

The A400M has been plagued by setbacks, with the aircraft's first flight postponed to a date that has yet to be determined because of engine problems.

Wolf, who was quoted indirectly by Sueddeutsche Zeitung, said it was more realistic to extend to six months a moratorium accorded to EADS to get the program back on track.

Countries that have ordered the plane, Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Spain and Turkey, have suggested delaying from April 1 to July 1 the date on which they can begin to cancel contracts.

The European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS) was supposed to get the transport plane in the air for an inaugural flight in January 2008, and the seven countries await a total of 180 A400Ms.

On March 18, French defense official Laurent Collet-Billon said Paris might reduce the number of planes it has ordered.

France has signed on for 50 aircraft, while Germany has ordered 60.

Wolfgang escreveu:A linha do C-17 vai bombar... é a únicaopção viável, mesmo que o C-17 esteja acima das especificações do A-400... Não há aeronave na mesma faixa.. uma pena...

Alcantara escreveu:

Wolfgang escreveu:A linha do C-17 vai bombar... é a únicaopção viável, mesmo que o C-17 esteja acima das especificações do A-400... Não há aeronave na mesma faixa.. uma pena...

É só juntar a Boeing com a Embraer que sai um...

soultrain escreveu:E corre o risco de o A400M ir parar ao Brasil.

soultrain escreveu:E corre o risco de o A400M ir parar ao Brasil.

EPI admits A400M goof
Written by defenceWeb
Friday, 08 May 2009

Euro Prop International (EPI), the engine consortium created to build the powerplant for the Airbus Military A400M Loadmaster military transport aircraft on order for the South African and eight other Air Forces, has admitted it is in part to blame for a three to five year delay with the programme.

EPI President Nick Durham told an industry briefing in Seville, Spain, this week that they had slipped up with the certification of the Fully Digital Engine Control (FADEC) software for the aircraft’s massive TP400-D6 turboprop engines.

Durham told an interested audience that the A400M will be used for military and humanitarian missions, meaning it must possess both military and civil airworthiness certification.

Airframe manufacturer Airbus is responsible for managing the certification of the airframe but the engine manufacturer – EPI – must do the same on the propulsion system.

He explained the engine must pass through a series of “gates” before the authorities will allow the aircraft to perform its first flight under Experimental Aircraft classification.

Furthermore, the European Airworthiness Safety Authority (EASA) - and all other civil certification bodies – require proof of the integrity of any design they are being asked to certificate.

This includes being able to demonstrate traceability and accessibility in the writing of the FADEC software codes.

EPI failed to build the required body of traceable and accessible evidence for the FADEC software.

According to Durham, at the time, EPI didn’t realise that not doing so would sink any attempt at EASA certification.

The result is that the EPI has had to rewrite all of the software codes and create the required traceable evidence – a step that has required it to triple its workforce to meet EASA requirements and catch up lost time.

Airbus Military confirmed at the same briefing that the prototype airframe was ready to fly last yea, but had to stay grounded in light of the FADEC certification issue.

Meanwhile, the engine has completed some 2600 hours of testing in a ground rig, and vibration, endurance and large bird ingestion tests have been successfully completed.

The engine has also logged 23 hours in flight and 60 running hours on a C-130K Hercules test-bed aircraft. As only one of the test-bed’s four engines is a TP400-D6, it is able to fly despite the FADEC software certification issue.



Ø EPI is a joint-venture based in München Germany consisting of France’s Snecma (32.2%), Britain’s Rolls-Royce (25%), MTU in Germany (22.2%), and Spain’s ITP (20.6%).