tanques e blindados
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- FCarvalho
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- gabriel219
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Re: tanques e blindados
Novo conceito de blindagem ERA desenvolvido pelos Alemães:
Fico imaginando a capacidade atual do conjunto AMAP (passivo e ativo) misturado com esse novo ERA...
Na minha opinião a IBD hoje é a empresa mais avançava em blindagens do mundo.
Se funcionar, é revolucionário.IBD presented at Eurosatory its latest Protech Smart protection modules designed to defeat advanced, tandem warheads. The operating principle triggers the system only in the case of a shaped charge hitting the vehicle, the event would trigger one of the directional charges located above and beyond, which will hit the projectile, and disable its main warhead. First small charge in the tandem, a sensor late anywhere on the side, firing an explosive charge that destroys the threat, leaving the passive armor to deal with the small (precursor) part of the tandem warhead.
Fico imaginando a capacidade atual do conjunto AMAP (passivo e ativo) misturado com esse novo ERA...
Na minha opinião a IBD hoje é a empresa mais avançava em blindagens do mundo.
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Re: tanques e blindados
“Look at these people. Wandering around with absolutely no idea what's about to happen.”
P. Sullivan (Margin Call, 2011)
P. Sullivan (Margin Call, 2011)
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Re: tanques e blindados
Os módulos do AMAP-B já conseguem segurar a ogiva tandem do RPG-7:
Junto a isso, vira alvo feroz.
Ainda há a possibilidade de aliar isso ao AMAP ADS, com tempo de resposta de 0.56 milissegundos dá até pra escolher o alvo a partir da velocidade, deixando mísseis e foguetes/rojões pra esse novo conceito de ERA, enquanto o ADS cuida de munições cinéticas.
É algo muito FEROZ que está vindo por ai, o Armata vai ter um concorrente bem complicado.
Junto a isso, vira alvo feroz.
Ainda há a possibilidade de aliar isso ao AMAP ADS, com tempo de resposta de 0.56 milissegundos dá até pra escolher o alvo a partir da velocidade, deixando mísseis e foguetes/rojões pra esse novo conceito de ERA, enquanto o ADS cuida de munições cinéticas.
É algo muito FEROZ que está vindo por ai, o Armata vai ter um concorrente bem complicado.
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Re: tanques e blindados
Não sou tão otimista sobre os produtos da IBD, mesmo lhe reconhecendo os méritos, que parecem ser muitos. A treta está no "outro lado": se mal conhecemos detalhes razoavelmente confiáveis sobre a ERA 3G dos Russos - a Relikt, que talvez passe a ser mais conhecida ali pelo fim da década, eis que parece estar sendo oferecida para a modernização das frotas de T-72, T-80 e T90 pelo mundo afora - o que dizer da 4G, a Malachit?
Sobre a Relikt, o que se sabe de seguro é que os EUA desenvolveram a versão A4 de sua atual APDSFS 120 para tentar ser capaz de superá-la (mas ainda tem a blindagem passiva), vão ter que esperar mais para fazer uma A5 que encare a Malachit...
PS.: claro que há deficiências nos MBTs Russos, eis que aparentemente o novo APS Afghanit, com radar AESA e tudo, não protege contra ATGMs do tipo "Top Attack", como JAVELIN, TOW 2B e BILL 2, coisa que aparentemente o produto da IBD promete fazer e eu não duvido nada que faça mesmo.
A ver.
Sobre a Relikt, o que se sabe de seguro é que os EUA desenvolveram a versão A4 de sua atual APDSFS 120 para tentar ser capaz de superá-la (mas ainda tem a blindagem passiva), vão ter que esperar mais para fazer uma A5 que encare a Malachit...
PS.: claro que há deficiências nos MBTs Russos, eis que aparentemente o novo APS Afghanit, com radar AESA e tudo, não protege contra ATGMs do tipo "Top Attack", como JAVELIN, TOW 2B e BILL 2, coisa que aparentemente o produto da IBD promete fazer e eu não duvido nada que faça mesmo.
A ver.
“Look at these people. Wandering around with absolutely no idea what's about to happen.”
P. Sullivan (Margin Call, 2011)
P. Sullivan (Margin Call, 2011)
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Re: tanques e blindados
Mas Túlio, eu tenho quase certeza que esse módulo ERA não é ERA comum e sim um derivado do módulo AMAP.
Se for, ele pode quebrar uma munição KE ao meio, foi bem sucedido no EUA sendo testado no M1A2, interceptando 120 mm KE com 95% de eficiência.
Falo revolucionário pois é algo entre ERA e ADS, já que conta com sistemas eletrônicos (sensores) para detectsr e atingir a "main warhead" e desconheço essa capacidade nas blindagens ERA atuais.
Se der um jeito de operar isso com um upgrade do AMAP-ADS pesado, praticamente torna qualquer MBT "imune" (não totalmente pois nada tem 100% de eficiência) a qualquer coisa existente e futura por muitos anos.
Isso, por exemplo, já quebra a tática Russa de disparar dois Kornets contra um mesmo blindado, protegido por ADS, um servindo de decoy e o outro atingindo-o, no caso esse ERA atacaria a ogiva maior e a menor seria fácilmente repelida pela proteção passiva. Relembrando que o AMAP ADS tem capacidade "multi-target".
Se for, ele pode quebrar uma munição KE ao meio, foi bem sucedido no EUA sendo testado no M1A2, interceptando 120 mm KE com 95% de eficiência.
Falo revolucionário pois é algo entre ERA e ADS, já que conta com sistemas eletrônicos (sensores) para detectsr e atingir a "main warhead" e desconheço essa capacidade nas blindagens ERA atuais.
Se der um jeito de operar isso com um upgrade do AMAP-ADS pesado, praticamente torna qualquer MBT "imune" (não totalmente pois nada tem 100% de eficiência) a qualquer coisa existente e futura por muitos anos.
Isso, por exemplo, já quebra a tática Russa de disparar dois Kornets contra um mesmo blindado, protegido por ADS, um servindo de decoy e o outro atingindo-o, no caso esse ERA atacaria a ogiva maior e a menor seria fácilmente repelida pela proteção passiva. Relembrando que o AMAP ADS tem capacidade "multi-target".
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Re: tanques e blindados
A tática russo seria atualizada para disparar x Kornets até saturar o ADS, que é mais ou menos como ocorre com todo o resto nos dias de hoje, vide a quantidade de mísseis que EUA e Israel tem disparado contra alvos na Síria para obter exito.
As táticas terão que se adaptar a essa nova realidade.
As táticas terão que se adaptar a essa nova realidade.
"Quando um rico rouba, vira ministro" (Lula, 1988)
- gabriel219
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Re: tanques e blindados
Acho mais efetivo criarem mísseis com jammer ou algum tipo de jammer que interfira nos sensores do ADS do que saturar o alvo de mísseis.Marechal-do-ar escreveu: ↑Seg Jun 18, 2018 10:42 pm A tática russo seria atualizada para disparar x Kornets até saturar o ADS, que é mais ou menos como ocorre com todo o resto nos dias de hoje, vide a quantidade de mísseis que EUA e Israel tem disparado contra alvos na Síria para obter exito.
As táticas terão que se adaptar a essa nova realidade.
O AMAP ADS mesmo pode agir contra 2 alvos vindos de uma mesma direção, isso por módulo e podem ser até 2 na torre de um Leopard apontado pra um lado apenas, fora que ainda pode ser instalado no chassis. Com essa nova ERA + isso, vai ficar extremamente difícil saturar o alvo.
Ainda mais o AMAP ADS que fornece os dados de tiro ao computador balístico do atirador, dando a localização aproximada do alvo até para munições KE (segundo o que li o sistema consegue identificar o tipo de munição através da velocidade, calcula a perda da velocidade para estimar a distância), que serve como uma "contra-bateria".
Pra se ter ideia podem ser colocados até 4 módulos no chassi e 2 na torre apontando pra cada direção, é uma capacidade de interceptar 12 alvos, sem falar nesse ERA/ADS Protech, isso falando de uma lateral.
Já as munições KE só com ligas de tungstênio melhores e que sejam muito mais rápidas, hoje a mais rápida é a mais nova munição de 125 mm, viaja há Mach 5,88 e o AMAP ADS tem capacidade de interceptar. Acima disso, só com canhões ETC ou EM pra chegar em Mach 8 ou mais.
Se o Leopard 3 - ou seja lá qual for seu nome - for 80% daquilo que prometem, vai ser algo FEROZ demais até pro Armata.
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Re: tanques e blindados
É mais fácil falar do que fazer...gabriel219 escreveu: ↑Seg Jun 18, 2018 10:50 pm Acho mais efetivo criarem mísseis com jammer ou algum tipo de jammer que interfira nos sensores do ADS do que saturar o alvo de mísseis.
Mesmo hoje mísseis contam com ECCM (incluindo, jammers) se possível, mas muitas vezes simplesmente não é possível "jamear" o alvo.
De onde veio essa informação? O Tungstênio não é efetivo a essa velocidade...
"Quando um rico rouba, vira ministro" (Lula, 1988)
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Re: tanques e blindados
No caso do AMAP ADS ele provou sua capacidade em testes do EUA, superando as expectativas. O problema é o forte lobby em cima do sistema Quick Kill, que não chega a fazer sombra ao AMAP.
Sim, salvo engano o Spike LR2 possui um "jammer" e capacidade top attack com inclinação de 70o de ataque. Hoje só o AMAP pode interceptar isso, já que tem módulos apontados á um ângulo de 90o da torre, mas nesse caso falo do Kornet.
Já sobre a velocidade, á muito tempo (uns 6 meses) vi um material sobre a munição Vacuum 2 - ou 3BM70 - ter a mesma velocidade da 3BM69 - Vacuum 1, de DU -, acelerando há 2050 m/s, dando algo entre Mach 6,06-6,96 (errei ao escrever 5,88).
Sim, salvo engano o Spike LR2 possui um "jammer" e capacidade top attack com inclinação de 70o de ataque. Hoje só o AMAP pode interceptar isso, já que tem módulos apontados á um ângulo de 90o da torre, mas nesse caso falo do Kornet.
Já sobre a velocidade, á muito tempo (uns 6 meses) vi um material sobre a munição Vacuum 2 - ou 3BM70 - ter a mesma velocidade da 3BM69 - Vacuum 1, de DU -, acelerando há 2050 m/s, dando algo entre Mach 6,06-6,96 (errei ao escrever 5,88).
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Re: tanques e blindados
Ukraine’s T-84 Tanks Have Problems
They still nearly beat U.S. M-1 Abrams at Europe's annual tank competition
Since 2016, a slate of European militaries and the United States have gathered their tanks at Germany’s Grafenwoehr Training Area to put their armored beasts to the test in a variety of tactical exercises. This is the Strong Europe Tank Challenge, and a NATO-oriented — although not exclusive — competitor to Russia’s own famous tank biathlon.
It’s like the World Cup, but for tanks.
Since 2016, Germany with its Leopard 2A6 tanks has placed first twice — in 2016 and in 2018. Austria and its Leopards placed first in 2017. Unfortunately for Ukraine, it placed last in eighth place during the most recent competition in June 2018. The competition’s results are below:
Results of the 2018 Strong Europe Tank Challenge. Illustration via Wikipedia
For a video of some of the action, see below.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/ciXeSdCurfQ
Ukraine’s 14th Mechanized Brigade — a crack unit — competed using four T-84 Oplots, a Ukrainian-built spinoff of the Soviet-era T-80 tank, which was itself heavily inspired by the T-64.
Ukraine has exported these T-84 tanks to Thailand, but they have only served in limited numbers in Ukraine and have not entered the fray in Donbass where hundreds of T-64s may have been lost in fighting since 2014.
These T-84s encountered lot of problems at Grafenwoehr.
The T-84 uses an autoloader instead of a manual — human — loader, but on three of the four tanks, the shells did not load properly, according to Capt. Roman Bagaev, a company commander in the 14th Mechanized Brigade speaking to the Ukrainian military website Novynarnia. This is due to faulty charging mechanisms that send power to the autoloader.
Another issue — shakiness in the 125-millimeter cannon due to faulty fire-control systems. Beyond one kilometer, the tanks cannot accurately hit their targets. As a result, the group of T-84s only managed to fire 16 shells of the 40 shells the tanks brought with them.
All of these problems noted, the Ukrainian crews still like their T-84s compared to the T-64, which is by far the most numerous tank in Ukrainian service. There are more than 700 T-64s in service as of 2016 according to the International Institute of Strategic Studies, although this may not factor in combat losses.
For one, the T-84 is much faster.
Specifically, the T-84’s top speed of around 43 miles per hour outpaces the T-64 which ranges up to 37 miles per hour, and the T-80 is significantly faster in reverse. The Ukrainian tank commander said the T-64’s reverse speed is an achingly slow 2.5 miles — or four kilometers — per hour. Other sources state it may be nine miles per hour, but we’ll trust the commander.
A T-84 can reverse at 21 miles per hour.
Reverse speed is critically important for tanks given the tactic of “shoot and scoot,” or popping up and taking a shot before reversing. Typically, this means a tank hiding behind elevated terrain, such as a berm, exposing only its turret and minimizing the area an enemy can target. Once the tank fires, it then scoots backwards and out of an enemy’s sight. The T-84’s reverse speed is a massive improvement contributing to the survivability of the crew.
The ammo storage is also compartmentalized in a safer manner for the crew in the event of a hit which could spark an ammunition explosion. For a more detailed view of the T-84 and its continued improvements, see Charlie Gao’s overview at The National Interest. What is particularly noteworthy — with all these problems — is that Ukraine still came close to beating the U.S. team with its M-1 Abrams tanks.
http://warisboring.com/ukraines-t-84-ta ... -problems/
They still nearly beat U.S. M-1 Abrams at Europe's annual tank competition
Since 2016, a slate of European militaries and the United States have gathered their tanks at Germany’s Grafenwoehr Training Area to put their armored beasts to the test in a variety of tactical exercises. This is the Strong Europe Tank Challenge, and a NATO-oriented — although not exclusive — competitor to Russia’s own famous tank biathlon.
It’s like the World Cup, but for tanks.
Since 2016, Germany with its Leopard 2A6 tanks has placed first twice — in 2016 and in 2018. Austria and its Leopards placed first in 2017. Unfortunately for Ukraine, it placed last in eighth place during the most recent competition in June 2018. The competition’s results are below:
Results of the 2018 Strong Europe Tank Challenge. Illustration via Wikipedia
For a video of some of the action, see below.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/ciXeSdCurfQ
Ukraine’s 14th Mechanized Brigade — a crack unit — competed using four T-84 Oplots, a Ukrainian-built spinoff of the Soviet-era T-80 tank, which was itself heavily inspired by the T-64.
Ukraine has exported these T-84 tanks to Thailand, but they have only served in limited numbers in Ukraine and have not entered the fray in Donbass where hundreds of T-64s may have been lost in fighting since 2014.
These T-84s encountered lot of problems at Grafenwoehr.
The T-84 uses an autoloader instead of a manual — human — loader, but on three of the four tanks, the shells did not load properly, according to Capt. Roman Bagaev, a company commander in the 14th Mechanized Brigade speaking to the Ukrainian military website Novynarnia. This is due to faulty charging mechanisms that send power to the autoloader.
Another issue — shakiness in the 125-millimeter cannon due to faulty fire-control systems. Beyond one kilometer, the tanks cannot accurately hit their targets. As a result, the group of T-84s only managed to fire 16 shells of the 40 shells the tanks brought with them.
All of these problems noted, the Ukrainian crews still like their T-84s compared to the T-64, which is by far the most numerous tank in Ukrainian service. There are more than 700 T-64s in service as of 2016 according to the International Institute of Strategic Studies, although this may not factor in combat losses.
For one, the T-84 is much faster.
Specifically, the T-84’s top speed of around 43 miles per hour outpaces the T-64 which ranges up to 37 miles per hour, and the T-80 is significantly faster in reverse. The Ukrainian tank commander said the T-64’s reverse speed is an achingly slow 2.5 miles — or four kilometers — per hour. Other sources state it may be nine miles per hour, but we’ll trust the commander.
A T-84 can reverse at 21 miles per hour.
Reverse speed is critically important for tanks given the tactic of “shoot and scoot,” or popping up and taking a shot before reversing. Typically, this means a tank hiding behind elevated terrain, such as a berm, exposing only its turret and minimizing the area an enemy can target. Once the tank fires, it then scoots backwards and out of an enemy’s sight. The T-84’s reverse speed is a massive improvement contributing to the survivability of the crew.
The ammo storage is also compartmentalized in a safer manner for the crew in the event of a hit which could spark an ammunition explosion. For a more detailed view of the T-84 and its continued improvements, see Charlie Gao’s overview at The National Interest. What is particularly noteworthy — with all these problems — is that Ukraine still came close to beating the U.S. team with its M-1 Abrams tanks.
http://warisboring.com/ukraines-t-84-ta ... -problems/
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Re: tanques e blindados
US Marines contract BAE Systems for amphibious combat vehicle production
The US Marine Corps Systems Command has selected BAE Systems as the preferred builder for the construction of amphibious combat vehicles (ACV) which will eventually replace the amphibious assault vehicles (AAV) currently in service.
Following a successful Milestone C decision, a contract $198 million will allow BAE Systems to build 30 low rate production vehicles, which will start delivering in the fall of next year.
The contract has options for a total of 204 vehicles which could be worth up to $1.2 billion.
BAE Systems, with teammate Iveco Defence Vehicles, was selected over SAIC as the preferred bidder. Both companies received $121.5m contracts in 2015 to build ACV prototypes.
The AAV has been in service for more than 40 years, and many of its components and parts are obsolete and no longer manufactured. Because of this, the vehicles are becoming increasingly costly and difficult to maintain. That, and the changing environment in which Marines find themselves plagued by the improvised explosive device threat, has produced a need for a new, more survivable combat vehicle that can maneuver from ship to shore and beyond.
The ACV is an eight-wheeled vehicle that will provide protection akin to the Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle, with landward maneuverability and mobility that is superior to that of the AAV. It will be outfitted with a precision weapons station for enhanced lethality, and a robust swim capability, allowing it to operate within the littorals and beyond.
“The ACV provides a mobile capability that mechanizes the force to maintain tempo with the remainder of the [Marine Air-Ground Task Force]; specifically the M1A1 tank,” said Col. Kirk Mullins, ACV 1.1 product manager in Program Manager Advanced Amphibious Assault in the Program Executive Officer Land Systems. “It isn’t maintenance intensive because of its increased reliability, and it also provides greater protection against threats we encounter on the battlefield.”
The vehicle underwent substantial testing over the past two years to determine how it will protect Marines, be easier to maintain, and meet requirements for survivability and reliability. Testing took place at the U.S. Army Aberdeen Test Center in Maryland; the Amphibious Vehicle Test Branch aboard Camp Pendleton, California; the Yuma Test Center in Arizona; the U.S. Army Engineer Research and Development Center in Mississippi; and the White Sands Missile Range Army Base in New Mexico.
Additionally, the ACV was evaluated aboard the USS Somerset and the USS Anchorage to demonstrate its ability to launch from and recover to amphibious ships, and overall shipboard compatibility.
“Our test program was exhaustive in an effort to ensure we gathered all the data needed to make the best decision,” said Mullins. “We tested the ACV for survivability, mobility, water operations and reliability, and completed gunnery testing.”
Marines who participated in the operational assessment evaluated the vehicle favorably, Mullins said. Those who had previous experience with the AAV were enthusiastic and optimistic about operating the ACV in the future.
I Marine Expeditionary Force will be the first to receive the new ACV when fielding starts in the fourth quarter of 2020. Full operational capability is scheduled for 2023.
https://navaltoday.com/2018/06/20/us-ma ... roduction/
The US Marine Corps Systems Command has selected BAE Systems as the preferred builder for the construction of amphibious combat vehicles (ACV) which will eventually replace the amphibious assault vehicles (AAV) currently in service.
Following a successful Milestone C decision, a contract $198 million will allow BAE Systems to build 30 low rate production vehicles, which will start delivering in the fall of next year.
The contract has options for a total of 204 vehicles which could be worth up to $1.2 billion.
BAE Systems, with teammate Iveco Defence Vehicles, was selected over SAIC as the preferred bidder. Both companies received $121.5m contracts in 2015 to build ACV prototypes.
The AAV has been in service for more than 40 years, and many of its components and parts are obsolete and no longer manufactured. Because of this, the vehicles are becoming increasingly costly and difficult to maintain. That, and the changing environment in which Marines find themselves plagued by the improvised explosive device threat, has produced a need for a new, more survivable combat vehicle that can maneuver from ship to shore and beyond.
The ACV is an eight-wheeled vehicle that will provide protection akin to the Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle, with landward maneuverability and mobility that is superior to that of the AAV. It will be outfitted with a precision weapons station for enhanced lethality, and a robust swim capability, allowing it to operate within the littorals and beyond.
“The ACV provides a mobile capability that mechanizes the force to maintain tempo with the remainder of the [Marine Air-Ground Task Force]; specifically the M1A1 tank,” said Col. Kirk Mullins, ACV 1.1 product manager in Program Manager Advanced Amphibious Assault in the Program Executive Officer Land Systems. “It isn’t maintenance intensive because of its increased reliability, and it also provides greater protection against threats we encounter on the battlefield.”
The vehicle underwent substantial testing over the past two years to determine how it will protect Marines, be easier to maintain, and meet requirements for survivability and reliability. Testing took place at the U.S. Army Aberdeen Test Center in Maryland; the Amphibious Vehicle Test Branch aboard Camp Pendleton, California; the Yuma Test Center in Arizona; the U.S. Army Engineer Research and Development Center in Mississippi; and the White Sands Missile Range Army Base in New Mexico.
Additionally, the ACV was evaluated aboard the USS Somerset and the USS Anchorage to demonstrate its ability to launch from and recover to amphibious ships, and overall shipboard compatibility.
“Our test program was exhaustive in an effort to ensure we gathered all the data needed to make the best decision,” said Mullins. “We tested the ACV for survivability, mobility, water operations and reliability, and completed gunnery testing.”
Marines who participated in the operational assessment evaluated the vehicle favorably, Mullins said. Those who had previous experience with the AAV were enthusiastic and optimistic about operating the ACV in the future.
I Marine Expeditionary Force will be the first to receive the new ACV when fielding starts in the fourth quarter of 2020. Full operational capability is scheduled for 2023.
https://navaltoday.com/2018/06/20/us-ma ... roduction/
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Re: tanques e blindados
Daqui uns vinte anos a gente vai ver eles por aqui nas cores do CFN..
Abs
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Carpe Diem
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Re: tanques e blindados
Dúvido... o Brasil já tem o seu projecto e o vosso Corpo de Fuzileiros vai recebê-los mais tarde ou mais cedo.