Os negócios do Lulinha são muito variados...joao fernando escreveu:Preparando as risas aqui: Ou o Lulinha é honesto ou o Gripen subiu no telhado...
TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Moderadores: Glauber Prestes, Conselho de Moderação
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Carlo M. Cipolla
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Nem uma coisa nem outra colega ... teu queridinho tem muito o que explicar ... e a hora tá chegando ...joao fernando escreveu:Preparando as risas aqui: Ou o Lulinha é honesto ou o Gripen subiu no telhado...
Não confunda ... a grande obra do mestre Picasso com a pica de aço do mestre de obras ...Bolovo escreveu:Agora o kirk enlouquece. Pra defender o Gripen vai ter que defender o Lulinha. Vai dar tela azul no rapaz.nveras escreveu:xiiiii.
PF suspeita que pagamento a filho de Lula pode ter relação com caças
FÁBIO FABRINI E ANDREZA MATAIS
Em depoimento a investigadores da Zelotes, ex-presidente afirma que hipótese é 'absurda'
http://politica.estadao.com.br/noticias ... 0000013088
Mauro Marcondes também foi representante do grupo que controla a Saab. Documentos apreendidos pela PF, revelados pelo Estado, indicam que ele também fez gestões junto ao governo federal pela compra dos caças.
O Sr. Lulinha boy, vai ter que EXPLICAR como prestou uma consultoria por R$ 2,5 MILHÕES aplicando seus conhecimento "profundos" do wikipédia ... e o que está envolvido aqui são aos MP de isenções de impostos do setor automotivo cujo lobista é o Marcondes ... amigão do Lula desde os áureos tempos do sindicado do ABC ... claramente pagamento de "Medidas Provisórias" para beneficiar aquele setor ... apurado na Zelotes ...
O Lula como sempre "não sabia de nada" ...
Inserir o Gripen nessa bandalheira é mais uma forma de "jogar fumaça" pra tentar desviar o foco da bandalheira do "Nine-Fingers" ,,, que envolveu sua prole nessa anarquia ...Lula diz à PF desconhecer que filho receberia R$ 2,5 milhões
POR O GLOBO
22/01/2016 ÀS 16:55 PM
BRASÍLIA – O ex-presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva disse, em depoimento à Polícia Federal, que seu filho Luis Cláudio Lula da Silva não o informou com antecedência que receberia R$ 2,5 milhões de uma empresa do lobista Mauro Marcondes Machado, preso por suspeita de envolvimento em esquema de compra de medidas provisórias.
http://www.dm.com.br/cotidiano/2016/01/ ... lhoes.html
[] kirk
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
- saullo
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Daqui a pouco vai dizer que não conhece nem o filho.
E que nunca soube de nada.
Abraços
E que nunca soube de nada.
Abraços
Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
huahuahua...Pior é ele dizer, que Luis Cláudio Lula da Silva não é seu filho!
Boina Preta (Turma de 1994 - 20º Regimento de Cavalaria Blindada )
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
OPINION
American Gripen: The Solution To The F-35 Nightmare
Posted By David Archibald On 5:36 PM 01/22/2016
One thing that has helped keep the F-35 program going is a perception that there is no ‘Plane B.’ As Margaret Thatcher famously said,“There is no alternative.” No matter how bad the F-35 is, it is going to be built because the U.S. Air Force needs something to replace its worn-out fighters. That appears to be the fallback position in Lockheed Martin’s marketing plan for the F-35. The Department of Defence though is fully aware of the extraordinary cost of the F-35 relative to its performance and is looking to scale back its procurement. That could result in a death spiral as falling numbers send unit costs through the roof.
This figure shows U.S. Air Force fighter and light bomber procurement from 1975 with a projection to 2030:
Most of the fighter fleet was built in the fifteen years from 1977 to 1992. Then the F-22 came along a decade ago. While it is a fabulous fighter when it is flying, it is too costly to fly. The F-22 takes 42 man-hours of maintenance for each hour in the air. About half of those maintenance hours are taken with repairing its radar-absorbent-material (RAM) coating. Availability has risen to 63 percent. F-22 pilots are restricted to 10 to 12 hours in the air per month due to an operating cost of $58,000 per hour, the Air Force simply can’t afford more than that. Ideally pilots would get at least twice that amount of flying time in order to be fully proficient in their weapon system.
So restarting the F-22 production line to make good the fighter aircraft shortfall is not the ideal solution. Arguably the cost of the F-22 has wiped out half of the U.S. fighter fleet even before the Russians or Chinese have had a chance to attack it. Simply due to its cost, what was to be a 750-strong fleet stalled at 187 aircraft; of that number, only 123 are ‘combat-coded.’ After the 63 percent availability figure, that means that there is one modern fighter per every 4.1 million Americans. Of course that is not enough. The U.S. Air Force is considering buying more F-16 and F-15 fighters. That is not a solution either. As General Mike Hostage, former commander of Air Combat Command said,“If you gave me all the money I needed to refurbish the F-15 and the F-16 fleets, they would still become tactically obsolete by the middle of the next decade. Our adversaries are building fleets that will overmatch our legacy fleet, no matter what I do, by the middle of the next decade.”
The U.S. Air Force has been worshipping at the altar of stealth for over three decades, since the F-117 became operational in 1983. It was considered such a wonderful thing that it was deployed to South Korea in secret, only flew at night and so on. The F-117’s promise was borne out by its performance in Desert Storm in 1991. But things had changed by the end of that same decade. In Operation Allied Force against Serbia in 1999, one F-117 was shot down by a SAM battery and another was mission-killed by the same battery. The stealthy F-117 had a higher loss rate in that conflict than the F-16. It could only operate when it was protected by a pack of other aircraft.
Shaping provides 90 percent of the stealth of the invisibility cloak of a stealth aircraft with the remaining 10 percent coming from the RAM coating. The operational doctrine of the F-22 is based on the F-22 flying around without its radar on and not making any other electronic emissions either. At the same time it is vacuuming up the electronic emissions of enemy aircraft, triangulating their position and then pouncing at a time of its choosing. The world has moved on from that. Stealth, as practiced by the F-22 and F-35, is optimized on radar in the X band from 7.0 to 11.2 gigahertz. Detection in other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum has improved a lot over the last twenty years. Chief of these is infrared search and track (IRST) which enables an F-35 to be detected from its engine exhaust from over 60 miles away. The latest iteration of the Su-27 Flanker family, the Su-35, has IRST and L band radar on its wings. L band and lower frequency radars can see stealthy aircraft over 100 miles away. So an Su-35 can see a F-35 well before the F-35 can detect it. Stealth, as an end in itself, has outlived its usefulness, and maintaining that RAM coating is killing the budget for no good reason.
Right at the moment the U.S. Air Force is heading for a repeat to the start of World War 2 when its fighters got shot down by far better Axis aircraft. The qualitative edge in the small number of F-22s won’t save the day because they will be overwhelmed by the sheer number of Chinese Flanker variants, as per the RAND study of 2008. There is a solution but it means going overseas to get it. That has been done before. In the 1950s, the U.S. Air Force had the English Electic Canberra bomber built under license in the U.S. as the Martin B-57. It was a great design, illustrated by the fact that one B-57 was resurrected after 40 years in the boneyard in Arizona and used for battlefield communications in Afghanistan. Thirty years after the B-57, the Marine Corps fell in love with another UK aircraft, the Harrier, and had it built in the U.S. from 1985 as the McDonnell Douglas AV-8B.
The first F-35 to come off the assembly line was in 2006. That was ten years ago and, even though the F-35 is still years of from going into full production, it needs a $2.6 billion modernisation to upgrade its combat power. The solution to the F-35 nightmare first flew in 2008. This is the Gripen E of Saab in Sweden, updated from the original Gripen A of 1988. It is a delta wing with canards, likely the ideal planform for a single-engine air-superiority fighter. The last time the US Air Force had a delta-wing fighter was the Convair F-106 Delta Dart, retired in 1988. A promising effort that might have resulted in another delta-wing fighter was the F-16XL, a stretched version of the F-16 with a far greater range and bomb load. The F-16XL was sacrificed for the program that ultimately became the F-22.
Simulation has the Gripen E shooting down the Su-35 at almost the same rate that the F-22 does. The Gripen E is estimated to be able to shoot down 1.6 Su-35s for every Gripen E lost, the F-22 is slightly better at 2.0 Su-35s shot down per F-22 lost. In turn the Su-35 is better than the F-35, shooting down 2.4 F-35s for each Su-35 shot down. The Su-35 slaughters the F-18 Super Hornet at the rate of eight to one, as per General Hostage’s comment. How that comes about is explained by the following graphic of instantaneous turn rate plotted against sustained turn rate:
Turning, and carrying a gun, remains as important as it has ever been. Most missiles miss in combat and the fighter aircraft will go on to the merge. Assuming that pilot skill is equal, a 2° per second advantage in sustained turn rate will enable the more agile fighter to dominate the engagement. A high instantaneous turn rate is vital in being able to dodge the air-to-air missiles in the first place. The aircraft on the upper right quadrant of the graph will have a higher survival rate. The ones on the lower left quadrant will produce more widows.
The Gripen E has a U.S.-made engine, the GE F414, which is also the engine of the F-18 Super Hornet. The Swedish Air Force is buying its Gripen Es for $43 million per copy, less than one third of the price of the F-35. Its operating cost per hour is less than a tenth of that of the F-35’s. In fact it is the only aircraft that meets the selection criteria of the Joint Advanced Strike Technology program that spawned the F-35: that the acquisition and operating costs be not more than 80 percent of that of legacy aircraft.
Saab’s partner in the U.S. is Boeing, which will be without a fighter offering of its own once the F-18 Super Hornet production line in St Louis closes. It would be surprising if the two companies haven’t discussed bringing the Gripen to America. That would be good news for U.S. power projection in the Western Pacific, and for the families of U.S. airmen.
The story doesn’t end there. At the moment the Su-35 is the fighter to beat. It is almost as large as the F-22, with an empty weight of 18.4 tonnes and a maximum takeoff weight of 34.5 tonnes. Its fuel fraction of 38 percent gives it a combat range of 1,000 miles. The argument for having a large fighter aircraft is that physics makes larger aircraft more capable. Assuming that a smaller aircraft and a larger aircraft have a very similar lift to drag ratio, cruise at the same Mach number and have the same specific fuel consumption, the larger fighter will have about 40 percent better range. An inevitable consequence of the physics of flight is that long range aerial combat demands larger airframes and two engines, all other parameters being equal.
There is a role for a large, agile, twin-engined fighter aircraft in the Western Pacific. Apart from providing air superiority, such a platform would be ideal for delivering long range anti-ship cruise missiles. But this should not be a resurrected F-22. The F-22 program dates from 1991 when its prototype, the YF-22 produced by Lockheed Martin, won the fly-off competition against the YF-23 produced by Northrop, though the YF-23 was faster and stealthier. The U.S. Air Force awarded the contract to Lockheed Martin because it thought that Northrop would not be up to building the B-2 bomber and the new fighter at the same time. Given that the avionics of the F-22 are now over 25 years old, it would be a better outcome from here, for the long term, to go back to the YF-23 airframe and update its engines and avionics. This would produce an aircraft with a weight, acquisition cost and operating cost similar to that of the F-15. It would be as stealthy as possible from shaping without the expense, logistic footprint and low availability of maintaining a RAM coating. Northrop has been awarded the Long Range Strike Bomber program of 80 aircraft at $550 million each. Northrop’s bomber offering is an enlarged, subsonic YF-23. We also need the updated fighter variant.
David Archibald is the author of Twilight of Abundance (Regnery)
Article printed from The Daily Caller: http://dailycaller.com
URL to article: http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/22/ameri ... nightmare/
American Gripen: The Solution To The F-35 Nightmare
Posted By David Archibald On 5:36 PM 01/22/2016
One thing that has helped keep the F-35 program going is a perception that there is no ‘Plane B.’ As Margaret Thatcher famously said,“There is no alternative.” No matter how bad the F-35 is, it is going to be built because the U.S. Air Force needs something to replace its worn-out fighters. That appears to be the fallback position in Lockheed Martin’s marketing plan for the F-35. The Department of Defence though is fully aware of the extraordinary cost of the F-35 relative to its performance and is looking to scale back its procurement. That could result in a death spiral as falling numbers send unit costs through the roof.
This figure shows U.S. Air Force fighter and light bomber procurement from 1975 with a projection to 2030:
Most of the fighter fleet was built in the fifteen years from 1977 to 1992. Then the F-22 came along a decade ago. While it is a fabulous fighter when it is flying, it is too costly to fly. The F-22 takes 42 man-hours of maintenance for each hour in the air. About half of those maintenance hours are taken with repairing its radar-absorbent-material (RAM) coating. Availability has risen to 63 percent. F-22 pilots are restricted to 10 to 12 hours in the air per month due to an operating cost of $58,000 per hour, the Air Force simply can’t afford more than that. Ideally pilots would get at least twice that amount of flying time in order to be fully proficient in their weapon system.
So restarting the F-22 production line to make good the fighter aircraft shortfall is not the ideal solution. Arguably the cost of the F-22 has wiped out half of the U.S. fighter fleet even before the Russians or Chinese have had a chance to attack it. Simply due to its cost, what was to be a 750-strong fleet stalled at 187 aircraft; of that number, only 123 are ‘combat-coded.’ After the 63 percent availability figure, that means that there is one modern fighter per every 4.1 million Americans. Of course that is not enough. The U.S. Air Force is considering buying more F-16 and F-15 fighters. That is not a solution either. As General Mike Hostage, former commander of Air Combat Command said,“If you gave me all the money I needed to refurbish the F-15 and the F-16 fleets, they would still become tactically obsolete by the middle of the next decade. Our adversaries are building fleets that will overmatch our legacy fleet, no matter what I do, by the middle of the next decade.”
The U.S. Air Force has been worshipping at the altar of stealth for over three decades, since the F-117 became operational in 1983. It was considered such a wonderful thing that it was deployed to South Korea in secret, only flew at night and so on. The F-117’s promise was borne out by its performance in Desert Storm in 1991. But things had changed by the end of that same decade. In Operation Allied Force against Serbia in 1999, one F-117 was shot down by a SAM battery and another was mission-killed by the same battery. The stealthy F-117 had a higher loss rate in that conflict than the F-16. It could only operate when it was protected by a pack of other aircraft.
Shaping provides 90 percent of the stealth of the invisibility cloak of a stealth aircraft with the remaining 10 percent coming from the RAM coating. The operational doctrine of the F-22 is based on the F-22 flying around without its radar on and not making any other electronic emissions either. At the same time it is vacuuming up the electronic emissions of enemy aircraft, triangulating their position and then pouncing at a time of its choosing. The world has moved on from that. Stealth, as practiced by the F-22 and F-35, is optimized on radar in the X band from 7.0 to 11.2 gigahertz. Detection in other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum has improved a lot over the last twenty years. Chief of these is infrared search and track (IRST) which enables an F-35 to be detected from its engine exhaust from over 60 miles away. The latest iteration of the Su-27 Flanker family, the Su-35, has IRST and L band radar on its wings. L band and lower frequency radars can see stealthy aircraft over 100 miles away. So an Su-35 can see a F-35 well before the F-35 can detect it. Stealth, as an end in itself, has outlived its usefulness, and maintaining that RAM coating is killing the budget for no good reason.
Right at the moment the U.S. Air Force is heading for a repeat to the start of World War 2 when its fighters got shot down by far better Axis aircraft. The qualitative edge in the small number of F-22s won’t save the day because they will be overwhelmed by the sheer number of Chinese Flanker variants, as per the RAND study of 2008. There is a solution but it means going overseas to get it. That has been done before. In the 1950s, the U.S. Air Force had the English Electic Canberra bomber built under license in the U.S. as the Martin B-57. It was a great design, illustrated by the fact that one B-57 was resurrected after 40 years in the boneyard in Arizona and used for battlefield communications in Afghanistan. Thirty years after the B-57, the Marine Corps fell in love with another UK aircraft, the Harrier, and had it built in the U.S. from 1985 as the McDonnell Douglas AV-8B.
The first F-35 to come off the assembly line was in 2006. That was ten years ago and, even though the F-35 is still years of from going into full production, it needs a $2.6 billion modernisation to upgrade its combat power. The solution to the F-35 nightmare first flew in 2008. This is the Gripen E of Saab in Sweden, updated from the original Gripen A of 1988. It is a delta wing with canards, likely the ideal planform for a single-engine air-superiority fighter. The last time the US Air Force had a delta-wing fighter was the Convair F-106 Delta Dart, retired in 1988. A promising effort that might have resulted in another delta-wing fighter was the F-16XL, a stretched version of the F-16 with a far greater range and bomb load. The F-16XL was sacrificed for the program that ultimately became the F-22.
Simulation has the Gripen E shooting down the Su-35 at almost the same rate that the F-22 does. The Gripen E is estimated to be able to shoot down 1.6 Su-35s for every Gripen E lost, the F-22 is slightly better at 2.0 Su-35s shot down per F-22 lost. In turn the Su-35 is better than the F-35, shooting down 2.4 F-35s for each Su-35 shot down. The Su-35 slaughters the F-18 Super Hornet at the rate of eight to one, as per General Hostage’s comment. How that comes about is explained by the following graphic of instantaneous turn rate plotted against sustained turn rate:
Turning, and carrying a gun, remains as important as it has ever been. Most missiles miss in combat and the fighter aircraft will go on to the merge. Assuming that pilot skill is equal, a 2° per second advantage in sustained turn rate will enable the more agile fighter to dominate the engagement. A high instantaneous turn rate is vital in being able to dodge the air-to-air missiles in the first place. The aircraft on the upper right quadrant of the graph will have a higher survival rate. The ones on the lower left quadrant will produce more widows.
The Gripen E has a U.S.-made engine, the GE F414, which is also the engine of the F-18 Super Hornet. The Swedish Air Force is buying its Gripen Es for $43 million per copy, less than one third of the price of the F-35. Its operating cost per hour is less than a tenth of that of the F-35’s. In fact it is the only aircraft that meets the selection criteria of the Joint Advanced Strike Technology program that spawned the F-35: that the acquisition and operating costs be not more than 80 percent of that of legacy aircraft.
Saab’s partner in the U.S. is Boeing, which will be without a fighter offering of its own once the F-18 Super Hornet production line in St Louis closes. It would be surprising if the two companies haven’t discussed bringing the Gripen to America. That would be good news for U.S. power projection in the Western Pacific, and for the families of U.S. airmen.
The story doesn’t end there. At the moment the Su-35 is the fighter to beat. It is almost as large as the F-22, with an empty weight of 18.4 tonnes and a maximum takeoff weight of 34.5 tonnes. Its fuel fraction of 38 percent gives it a combat range of 1,000 miles. The argument for having a large fighter aircraft is that physics makes larger aircraft more capable. Assuming that a smaller aircraft and a larger aircraft have a very similar lift to drag ratio, cruise at the same Mach number and have the same specific fuel consumption, the larger fighter will have about 40 percent better range. An inevitable consequence of the physics of flight is that long range aerial combat demands larger airframes and two engines, all other parameters being equal.
There is a role for a large, agile, twin-engined fighter aircraft in the Western Pacific. Apart from providing air superiority, such a platform would be ideal for delivering long range anti-ship cruise missiles. But this should not be a resurrected F-22. The F-22 program dates from 1991 when its prototype, the YF-22 produced by Lockheed Martin, won the fly-off competition against the YF-23 produced by Northrop, though the YF-23 was faster and stealthier. The U.S. Air Force awarded the contract to Lockheed Martin because it thought that Northrop would not be up to building the B-2 bomber and the new fighter at the same time. Given that the avionics of the F-22 are now over 25 years old, it would be a better outcome from here, for the long term, to go back to the YF-23 airframe and update its engines and avionics. This would produce an aircraft with a weight, acquisition cost and operating cost similar to that of the F-15. It would be as stealthy as possible from shaping without the expense, logistic footprint and low availability of maintaining a RAM coating. Northrop has been awarded the Long Range Strike Bomber program of 80 aircraft at $550 million each. Northrop’s bomber offering is an enlarged, subsonic YF-23. We also need the updated fighter variant.
David Archibald is the author of Twilight of Abundance (Regnery)
Article printed from The Daily Caller: http://dailycaller.com
URL to article: http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/22/ameri ... nightmare/
Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Carlo M. Cipolla
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Não é bem assim...alcmartin escreveu:E, como o thor levantou, a mais de 60.000ft, a pressao atmosferica cai tanto, que a temperatura de ebulicao da agua e' de 37 graus celsius. Ou seja, o sangue do cara ferve. E ele, literalmente, explode.
Acima de 60 mil pés a água ferve a menos de 37 graus, mas não é isso que mata o piloto (alias, isso já aconteceu, posso afirmar com certeza que o piloto não explode), mesmo essa sendo a temperatura de ebulição o processo de ebulição em si exige energia (um processo endotérmico), a 60 mil pés precisa de pouco mais de 600 calorias por grama, e a água só precisa de 1 cal por grama para reduzir a temperatura em 1 grau, então, o que acontece é que quando o sangue começa a ferver ele também esfria, se isso fosse matar o piloto o mataria de hipotermia.
Mas não é isso que vai mata-lo, de qualquer jeito, o processo não é tão rápido assim, a 50 mil pés (não é um valor exato, digamos, é um valor seguro) a pressão é insuficiente para suprir as necessidades de oxigênio do piloto mesmo que esse respirasse oxigênio puro, bombear oxigênio sobre pressão para o piloto destruiria seu pulmão.
Agora supondo uma rápida despressurização, mas, para ser mais extremo, supondo uma espaçonave, não a 60 mil pés, mas na órbita da Lua, onde a pressão é 0, se o piloto tentar segurar ar nos pulmões vai destruir seus pulmões, a pressão interna vai realmente rasgar o seu corpo, então o mais inteligente seria deixar o ar sair, ainda assim, sem ar nos pulmões, a morta não é imediata, existe oxigênio no sangue, o suficiente para viver por uns 15 segundos, a pressão do corpo ainda fará com que o corpo do piloto inche, mas não vai explodir (seria uma explosão endotérmica ), e o processo da água vaporizar e esfriar vai ocorrer gradualmente, depois do piloto morrer asfixiado seu sangue vai continuar vaporizando e esfriando até o corpo congelar, nunca vi alguém que chegou nesse estágio, nem sei se já conseguiram recuperar algum corpo assim, mas, segundo especialistas, os corpos mostrados no filme "Interestelar" estão bem próximos de como um corpo no vácuo ficaria na vida real.
Em espaçonaves a pressão é mantida a cerca de 1 terço da pressão ao nível do mar com 100% de oxigênio (ao invés da nossa atmosfera com 20% oxigênio), a razão para não usar a mesma pressão e constituição da nossa atmosfera é reduzir o esforço estrutural e fadiga causada peça pressão e ainda dar uma margem de segurança em caso de despressurização, a fadiga foi o que destruiu muitas aeronaves a jato nos anos 50, eu ficaria muito surpreso se a FAB optasse for pressurizar a cabine de seus caças regularmente.
Se é preciso abater alvos voando alto é só mandar um BVR nele, não é mais preciso que o caça voe tão alto quanto o alvo.Carlos Lima escreveu: Se na Suécia ele não faz essa missão à grande altitude e pelo que está sendo dito nas últimas páginas que só a FAB está interessada é de se concluir que tal missão não faz parte do perfil da aeronave e vamos ter que adaptá-la ao nosso cenário.
Até aonde consta aeronaves como o Typhoon, Rafale e SHornet fazem esse tipo de missão sem ter que sofrerem adaptações e o que vem sendo dito é que o Gripen precisaria de tais mudanças.
O que a principio não tem nada de errado, é só que vamos nos distanciando do que os suecos tem na sua aeronave 'padrão' e dependendo de tal distância isso sempre acaba nos mordendo na logística daqui a alguns bons anos em função da pouca quantidade de aeronaves sendo compradas.
E não acho que a FAB tenha interesse em voar nessas altitudes, acredito mais na opção de que a pressurização é pelo conforto do piloto.
A propósito, o Ralafe está na mesma situação do Gripen sueco aqui.
Ao que consta, foi uma solicitação da FAB, a força aérea sueca não conta com tal equipamento e apenas os caças da FAB o terão.Penguin escreveu:Onde vc leu que na Suécia o Gripen não realiza missão a grande altitude?
Por exemplo, interceptação a grande altitude?
O requisito principal do Gripen era justamente as missões de interceptação e defesa aérea.
Difícil de crer nessa sua hipótese.
Sim, a limitação é o piloto, isso já foi dito aqui milhares de vezes e a meses, 50 mil pés é o limite sem pressurização, claro, não é um limite absoluto, depende da margem de segurança que a força aérea em questão queira para seus pilotos, mas ainda tem quem queira discutir isso:Penguin escreveu:Está mais do que claro que o maior limitador é o piloto. E isso independe do caça.
De uma forma geral, o teto operacional da maioria dos caças gira em torno de 50.000ft.
kirk escreveu: Lima,
Não é bem assim não amigo.
Rafale : 50.000ft equivalente a 15.240m
Gripen : 52.500ft equivalente a 16.000m
Typhoon : 55.000ft equivalente a 16.770m
https://www.yumpu.com/fr/document/view/ ... sadminch/5
"Quando um rico rouba, vira ministro" (Lula, 1988)
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Mais uma vez ...Marechal-do-ar escreveu: Sim, a limitação é o piloto, isso já foi dito aqui milhares de vezes e a meses, 50 mil pés é o limite sem pressurização, claro, não é um limite absoluto, depende da margem de segurança que a força aérea em questão queira para seus pilotos, mas ainda tem quem queira discutir isso:kirk escreveu: Lima,
Não é bem assim não amigo.
Rafale : 50.000ft equivalente a 15.240m
Gripen : 52.500ft equivalente a 16.000m
Typhoon : 55.000ft equivalente a 16.770m
https://www.yumpu.com/fr/document/view/ ... sadminch/5
Não é correto tirar uma afirmação do contexto e sentencia-la como um factóide [EDIT] Pega leve com as provocações e o vocabulário.
[] kirk
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Somente grifando ... lembrando que não sou eu quem escrevi o artigo, viu colegas ?
E ainda temos que ler que a FAB não soube escolher sua aeronave de combate ... ainda temos que ler que foi o que "sobrou" ... ainda temos que ler que o caça é obsoleto e que o 5ªG é o cara e blá, blá, blá ... ainda bem que podemos ler ... antes ler os absurdos sem fundamento do que não poder ler, né ???Penguin escreveu:OPINION
American Gripen: The Solution To The F-35 Nightmare
Posted By David Archibald On 5:36 PM 01/22/2016
One thing that has helped keep the F-35 program going is a perception that there is no ‘Plane B.’ As Margaret Thatcher famously said,“There is no alternative.” No matter how bad the F-35 is, it is going to be built because the U.S. Air Force needs something to replace its worn-out fighters. That appears to be the fallback position in Lockheed Martin’s marketing plan for the F-35. The Department of Defence though is fully aware of the extraordinary cost of the F-35 relative to its performance and is looking to scale back its procurement. That could result in a death spiral as falling numbers send unit costs through the roof.
This figure shows U.S. Air Force fighter and light bomber procurement from 1975 with a projection to 2030:
Most of the fighter fleet was built in the fifteen years from 1977 to 1992. Then the F-22 came along a decade ago. While it is a fabulous fighter when it is flying, it is too costly to fly. The F-22 takes 42 man-hours of maintenance for each hour in the air. About half of those maintenance hours are taken with repairing its radar-absorbent-material (RAM) coating. Availability has risen to 63 percent. F-22 pilots are restricted to 10 to 12 hours in the air per month due to an operating cost of $58,000 per hour, the Air Force simply can’t afford more than that. Ideally pilots would get at least twice that amount of flying time in order to be fully proficient in their weapon system.
So restarting the F-22 production line to make good the fighter aircraft shortfall is not the ideal solution. Arguably the cost of the F-22 has wiped out half of the U.S. fighter fleet even before the Russians or Chinese have had a chance to attack it. Simply due to its cost, what was to be a 750-strong fleet stalled at 187 aircraft; of that number, only 123 are ‘combat-coded.’ After the 63 percent availability figure, that means that there is one modern fighter per every 4.1 million Americans. Of course that is not enough. The U.S. Air Force is considering buying more F-16 and F-15 fighters. That is not a solution either. As General Mike Hostage, former commander of Air Combat Command said,“If you gave me all the money I needed to refurbish the F-15 and the F-16 fleets, they would still become tactically obsolete by the middle of the next decade. Our adversaries are building fleets that will overmatch our legacy fleet, no matter what I do, by the middle of the next decade.”
The U.S. Air Force has been worshipping at the altar of stealth for over three decades, since the F-117 became operational in 1983. It was considered such a wonderful thing that it was deployed to South Korea in secret, only flew at night and so on. The F-117’s promise was borne out by its performance in Desert Storm in 1991. But things had changed by the end of that same decade. In Operation Allied Force against Serbia in 1999, one F-117 was shot down by a SAM battery and another was mission-killed by the same battery. The stealthy F-117 had a higher loss rate in that conflict than the F-16. It could only operate when it was protected by a pack of other aircraft.
Shaping provides 90 percent of the stealth of the invisibility cloak of a stealth aircraft with the remaining 10 percent coming from the RAM coating. The operational doctrine of the F-22 is based on the F-22 flying around without its radar on and not making any other electronic emissions either. At the same time it is vacuuming up the electronic emissions of enemy aircraft, triangulating their position and then pouncing at a time of its choosing. The world has moved on from that. Stealth, as practiced by the F-22 and F-35, is optimized on radar in the X band from 7.0 to 11.2 gigahertz. Detection in other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum has improved a lot over the last twenty years. Chief of these is infrared search and track (IRST) which enables an F-35 to be detected from its engine exhaust from over 60 miles away. The latest iteration of the Su-27 Flanker family, the Su-35, has IRST and L band radar on its wings. L band and lower frequency radars can see stealthy aircraft over 100 miles away. So an Su-35 can see a F-35 well before the F-35 can detect it. Stealth, as an end in itself, has outlived its usefulness, and maintaining that RAM coating is killing the budget for no good reason.
Right at the moment the U.S. Air Force is heading for a repeat to the start of World War 2 when its fighters got shot down by far better Axis aircraft. The qualitative edge in the small number of F-22s won’t save the day because they will be overwhelmed by the sheer number of Chinese Flanker variants, as per the RAND study of 2008. There is a solution but it means going overseas to get it. That has been done before. In the 1950s, the U.S. Air Force had the English Electic Canberra bomber built under license in the U.S. as the Martin B-57. It was a great design, illustrated by the fact that one B-57 was resurrected after 40 years in the boneyard in Arizona and used for battlefield communications in Afghanistan. Thirty years after the B-57, the Marine Corps fell in love with another UK aircraft, the Harrier, and had it built in the U.S. from 1985 as the McDonnell Douglas AV-8B.
The first F-35 to come off the assembly line was in 2006. That was ten years ago and, even though the F-35 is still years of from going into full production, it needs a $2.6 billion modernisation to upgrade its combat power. The solution to the F-35 nightmare first flew in 2008. This is the Gripen E of Saab in Sweden, updated from the original Gripen A of 1988. It is a delta wing with canards, likely the ideal planform for a single-engine air-superiority fighter. The last time the US Air Force had a delta-wing fighter was the Convair F-106 Delta Dart, retired in 1988. A promising effort that might have resulted in another delta-wing fighter was the F-16XL, a stretched version of the F-16 with a far greater range and bomb load. The F-16XL was sacrificed for the program that ultimately became the F-22.
Simulation has the Gripen E shooting down the Su-35 at almost the same rate that the F-22 does. The Gripen E is estimated to be able to shoot down 1.6 Su-35s for every Gripen E lost, the F-22 is slightly better at 2.0 Su-35s shot down per F-22 lost. In turn the Su-35 is better than the F-35, shooting down 2.4 F-35s for each Su-35 shot down. The Su-35 slaughters the F-18 Super Hornet at the rate of eight to one, as per General Hostage’s comment. How that comes about is explained by the following graphic of instantaneous turn rate plotted against sustained turn rate:
Turning, and carrying a gun, remains as important as it has ever been. Most missiles miss in combat and the fighter aircraft will go on to the merge. Assuming that pilot skill is equal, a 2° per second advantage in sustained turn rate will enable the more agile fighter to dominate the engagement. A high instantaneous turn rate is vital in being able to dodge the air-to-air missiles in the first place. The aircraft on the upper right quadrant of the graph will have a higher survival rate. The ones on the lower left quadrant will produce more widows.
The Gripen E has a U.S.-made engine, the GE F414, which is also the engine of the F-18 Super Hornet. The Swedish Air Force is buying its Gripen Es for $43 million per copy, less than one third of the price of the F-35. Its operating cost per hour is less than a tenth of that of the F-35’s. In fact it is the only aircraft that meets the selection criteria of the Joint Advanced Strike Technology program that spawned the F-35: that the acquisition and operating costs be not more than 80 percent of that of legacy aircraft.
Saab’s partner in the U.S. is Boeing, which will be without a fighter offering of its own once the F-18 Super Hornet production line in St Louis closes. It would be surprising if the two companies haven’t discussed bringing the Gripen to America. That would be good news for U.S. power projection in the Western Pacific, and for the families of U.S. airmen.
The story doesn’t end there. At the moment the Su-35 is the fighter to beat. It is almost as large as the F-22, with an empty weight of 18.4 tonnes and a maximum takeoff weight of 34.5 tonnes. Its fuel fraction of 38 percent gives it a combat range of 1,000 miles. The argument for having a large fighter aircraft is that physics makes larger aircraft more capable. Assuming that a smaller aircraft and a larger aircraft have a very similar lift to drag ratio, cruise at the same Mach number and have the same specific fuel consumption, the larger fighter will have about 40 percent better range. An inevitable consequence of the physics of flight is that long range aerial combat demands larger airframes and two engines, all other parameters being equal.
There is a role for a large, agile, twin-engined fighter aircraft in the Western Pacific. Apart from providing air superiority, such a platform would be ideal for delivering long range anti-ship cruise missiles. But this should not be a resurrected F-22. The F-22 program dates from 1991 when its prototype, the YF-22 produced by Lockheed Martin, won the fly-off competition against the YF-23 produced by Northrop, though the YF-23 was faster and stealthier. The U.S. Air Force awarded the contract to Lockheed Martin because it thought that Northrop would not be up to building the B-2 bomber and the new fighter at the same time. Given that the avionics of the F-22 are now over 25 years old, it would be a better outcome from here, for the long term, to go back to the YF-23 airframe and update its engines and avionics. This would produce an aircraft with a weight, acquisition cost and operating cost similar to that of the F-15. It would be as stealthy as possible from shaping without the expense, logistic footprint and low availability of maintaining a RAM coating. Northrop has been awarded the Long Range Strike Bomber program of 80 aircraft at $550 million each. Northrop’s bomber offering is an enlarged, subsonic YF-23. We also need the updated fighter variant.
David Archibald is the author of Twilight of Abundance (Regnery)
Article printed from The Daily Caller: http://dailycaller.com
URL to article: http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/22/ameri ... nightmare/
[] kirk
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Valeu pela correcao/complementacao. O que acontece e' que a instrucao que o pessoal do setor recebe para ai na temperatura de ebulicao da agua. Porque de resto o cara vai sifu, de um jeito ou outro... Mas, sem duvida, o que acrescenta corresponde aos efeitos fisicos.Marechal-do-ar escreveu:Não é bem assim...alcmartin escreveu:E, como o thor levantou, a mais de 60.000ft, a pressao atmosferica cai tanto, que a temperatura de ebulicao da agua e' de 37 graus celsius. Ou seja, o sangue do cara ferve. E ele, literalmente, explode.
Acima de 60 mil pés a água ferve a menos de 37 graus, mas não é isso que mata o piloto (alias, isso já aconteceu, posso afirmar com certeza que o piloto não explode), mesmo essa sendo a temperatura de ebulição o processo de ebulição em si exige energia (um processo endotérmico), a 60 mil pés precisa de pouco mais de 600 calorias por grama, e a água só precisa de 1 cal por grama para reduzir a temperatura em 1 grau, então, o que acontece é que quando o sangue começa a ferver ele também esfria, se isso fosse matar o piloto o mataria de hipotermia.
Mas não é isso que vai mata-lo, de qualquer jeito, o processo não é tão rápido assim, a 50 mil pés (não é um valor exato, digamos, é um valor seguro) a pressão é insuficiente para suprir as necessidades de oxigênio do piloto mesmo que esse respirasse oxigênio puro, bombear oxigênio sobre pressão para o piloto destruiria seu pulmão.
Agora supondo uma rápida despressurização, mas, para ser mais extremo, supondo uma espaçonave, não a 60 mil pés, mas na órbita da Lua, onde a pressão é 0, se o piloto tentar segurar ar nos pulmões vai destruir seus pulmões, a pressão interna vai realmente rasgar o seu corpo, então o mais inteligente seria deixar o ar sair, ainda assim, sem ar nos pulmões, a morta não é imediata, existe oxigênio no sangue, o suficiente para viver por uns 15 segundos, a pressão do corpo ainda fará com que o corpo do piloto inche, mas não vai explodir (seria uma explosão endotérmica ), e o processo da água vaporizar e esfriar vai ocorrer gradualmente, depois do piloto morrer asfixiado seu sangue vai continuar vaporizando e esfriando até o corpo congelar, nunca vi alguém que chegou nesse estágio, nem sei se já conseguiram recuperar algum corpo assim, mas, segundo especialistas, os corpos mostrados no filme "Interestelar" estão bem próximos de como um corpo no vácuo ficaria na vida real.
Em espaçonaves a pressão é mantida a cerca de 1 terço da pressão ao nível do mar com 100% de oxigênio (ao invés da nossa atmosfera com 20% oxigênio), a razão para não usar a mesma pressão e constituição da nossa atmosfera é reduzir o esforço estrutural e fadiga causada peça pressão e ainda dar uma margem de segurança em caso de despressurização, a fadiga foi o que destruiu muitas aeronaves a jato nos anos 50, eu ficaria muito surpreso se a FAB optasse for pressurizar a cabine de seus caças regularmente.
Desta maneira, quanto a rapidez do processo, se o cara vai explodir, ou morrer de hipoxia antes, estara' incapacitado, que e' o que importa. Mas, em relacao a hipoxia, e' sim, bem rapido. A 50.000ft, os testes em camaras de baixa pressao, nos USA, apontam em ate' 15 segundos, mas variam de um para outro.
Aqui, no Brasil, todos aviadores da FAB experimentam a despressurizacao, sem mascaras, a 25.000ft(variando a criterio do IN). Nao por incapacidade da camara em si, mas para que possamos aprender a conhecer os sintomas da hipoxia, com tempo, o que e' utilissimo. No caso, a 25.000, com um minuto, voce nao apaga, mas nao raciocina direito e nao comanda as maos, os bracos, de forma coordenada.
Houveram 2 acidentes recentes envolvendo despressurizacao que chamaram atencao; um de um learjet(que tem capacidade de voar nos 50.000ft) e cuja tripulacao e passageiros apagaram. O aviao foi interceptado por cacas da USAF que o escoltaram ate que caiu por pane seca. O outro foi de um 737(na Grecia, salvo nao me engano). Parece que o ultimo a desmaiar foi justamente um comissario, que foi ao cockpit e que era mergulhador. Teria assim, conhecimento teorico e adaptacao fisiologica para resistir mais tempo.
Em relacao a informacao com relacao as espaconaves, se eu entendi direito o que colocou, se pressuriza a 1/3, seria o que usa nos cacas, entao teriam que usar mascaras ou capacetes. Talvez esteja se referindo aos momentos criticos a que me referi, lancamento e reentrada. Mas ha' um detalhe ai: os russos sempre usaram ar comum(78%Nitrogenio e 21% oxigenio), enquanto os americanos usavam o oxigenio puro. Mas depois do incendio que matou os astronautas de uma missao APOLO, em treinamento no solo, PARECE que mudaram isso, pela facilidade que o uso de oxigenio puro da' a propagacao de incendio. Mas desconheco os detalhes atuais.
Obrigado pelos detalhes!
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Caramba, no texto ai do penguin, o F18 perde para o SU35 na razao de 8 para um??!!
- JT8D
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Penguin escreveu:Simulation has the Gripen E shooting down the Su-35 at almost the same rate that the F-22 does. The Gripen E is estimated to be able to shoot down 1.6 Su-35s for every Gripen E lost, the F-22 is slightly better at 2.0 Su-35s shot down per F-22 lost. In turn the Su-35 is better than the F-35, shooting down 2.4 F-35s for each Su-35 shot down. The Su-35 slaughters the F-18 Super Hornet at the rate of eight to one, as per General Hostage’s comment.
Se o Gripen abate o Su-35 a uma taxa de 1.6 para 1 e o Su-35 abate o SH a uma taxa de 8 para 1, então o Gripen abateria o SH a uma taxa de 12,8 para 1. É isso mesmo?
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
1/3 da pressão ao nível do mar acho que não é o mesmo 1/3 que vocês estão acostumados a usar...alcmartin escreveu:Em relacao a informacao com relacao as espaconaves, se eu entendi direito o que colocou, se pressuriza a 1/3, seria o que usa nos cacas, entao teriam que usar mascaras ou capacetes. Talvez esteja se referindo aos momentos criticos a que me referi, lancamento e reentrada. Mas ha' um detalhe ai: os russos sempre usaram ar comum(78%Nitrogenio e 21% oxigenio), enquanto os americanos usavam o oxigenio puro. Mas depois do incendio que matou os astronautas de uma missao APOLO, em treinamento no solo, PARECE que mudaram isso, pela facilidade que o uso de oxigenio puro da' a propagacao de incendio. Mas desconheco os detalhes atuais.
Com oxigênio puro não é preciso usar mascara ou trajes, e, pelo que eu saiba, os americanos usam essa atmosfera até hoje.
Também achei estranho, e agora veremos repetidas referências a esse blog que prova que o Gripen é o matador de Flankersalcmartin escreveu:Caramba, no texto ai do penguin, o F18 perde para o SU35 na razao de 8 para um??!!
Mas o texto faz algumas alegações extraordinárias em relação ao desempenho do Gripen E, estou aguardando ansiosamente ele voar para ver se ele vai demonstrar esse desempenho como os demais caças que aparecem no gráfico mostraram
"Quando um rico rouba, vira ministro" (Lula, 1988)
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Essa matéria não foi a primeira referência ... há pelo menos mais duas referências nesse sentido !Marechal-do-ar escreveu:1/3 da pressão ao nível do mar acho que não é o mesmo 1/3 que vocês estão acostumados a usar...alcmartin escreveu:Em relacao a informacao com relacao as espaconaves, se eu entendi direito o que colocou, se pressuriza a 1/3, seria o que usa nos cacas, entao teriam que usar mascaras ou capacetes. Talvez esteja se referindo aos momentos criticos a que me referi, lancamento e reentrada. Mas ha' um detalhe ai: os russos sempre usaram ar comum(78%Nitrogenio e 21% oxigenio), enquanto os americanos usavam o oxigenio puro. Mas depois do incendio que matou os astronautas de uma missao APOLO, em treinamento no solo, PARECE que mudaram isso, pela facilidade que o uso de oxigenio puro da' a propagacao de incendio. Mas desconheco os detalhes atuais.
Com oxigênio puro não é preciso usar mascara ou trajes, e, pelo que eu saiba, os americanos usam essa atmosfera até hoje.
Também achei estranho, e agora veremos repetidas referências a esse blog que prova que o Gripen é o matador de Flankersalcmartin escreveu:Caramba, no texto ai do penguin, o F18 perde para o SU35 na razao de 8 para um??!!
Mas o texto faz algumas alegações extraordinárias em relação ao desempenho do Gripen E, estou aguardando ansiosamente ele voar para ver se ele vai demonstrar esse desempenho como os demais caças que aparecem no gráfico mostraram
[] kirk
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
Os Estados não se defendem exigindo explicações, pedidos de desculpas ou com discursos na ONU.
“Quando encontrar um espadachim, saque da espada: não recite poemas para quem não é poeta”
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
Onde o Gripen C estaria localizado no gráfico da taxa de curva? Pergunto isso porque me parece que a taxa de curva depende muito mais da configuração aerodinâmica do que da potência do motor. Se isso for verdade o Gripen C também deve ter uma taxa de curva extraordinária.kirk escreveu:Essa matéria não foi a primeira referência ... há pelo menos mais duas referências nesse sentido !Marechal-do-ar escreveu: 1/3 da pressão ao nível do mar acho que não é o mesmo 1/3 que vocês estão acostumados a usar...
Com oxigênio puro não é preciso usar mascara ou trajes, e, pelo que eu saiba, os americanos usam essa atmosfera até hoje.
Também achei estranho, e agora veremos repetidas referências a esse blog que prova que o Gripen é o matador de Flankers
Mas o texto faz algumas alegações extraordinárias em relação ao desempenho do Gripen E, estou aguardando ansiosamente ele voar para ver se ele vai demonstrar esse desempenho como os demais caças que aparecem no gráfico mostraram
Abs,
JT
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Re: TÓPICO OFICIAL DO FX-2: GRIPEN NG
A instantânea depende apenas da configuração aerodinâmica e peso da aeronave, uma aeronave pode conseguir uma boa taxa de giro instantâneo até com o motor desligado, mas a sustentada depende também da potência do motor.JT8D escreveu:Onde o Gripen C estaria localizado no gráfico da taxa de curva? Pergunto isso porque me parece que a taxa de curva depende muito mais da configuração aerodinâmica do que da potência do motor. Se isso for verdade o Gripen C também deve ter uma taxa de curva extraordinária.
"Quando um rico rouba, vira ministro" (Lula, 1988)