Moderadores: Glauber Prestes, Conselho de Moderação
kobbidaxx escreveu:Será que eles estão com um caça stealth num hipotético futuro acordo para um high?Na minha opinião se eles conseguirem sair dessa fase ruim, nada impediria que se esse acordo for para a frente e der certo, no futuro poderiam costurar um acordo mais abrangente, já tem os helicópteros na manga, agora esse, no futuro, quem sabe...
Up the Irons!!!
Bourne escreveu:Custa 20 milhões de dólares a unidade. Nunca vai ser um rafale ou Typhoon ou F16
NovaTO escreveu:Matheus escreveu:Isso tem uma cara de Mig...
As origens desse caça remontam o MIG-21 chinês.
[]'s
Você deve estar falando do J-31.Petry escreveu:Se é para apostar num caça barato, prefiro apostar no chinês J-60 (esqueci o número) e segundo 5ª geração, que apareceu após o J-20.
Não sei se ele realmente será "tão stealth" assim, mas se bem equipado e desenvolvido, no mínimo empata com os caças de 4ª geração.
gabriel219 escreveu:Você deve estar falando do J-31.Petry escreveu:Se é para apostar num caça barato, prefiro apostar no chinês J-60 (esqueci o número) e segundo 5ª geração, que apareceu após o J-20.
Não sei se ele realmente será "tão stealth" assim, mas se bem equipado e desenvolvido, no mínimo empata com os caças de 4ª geração.
kobbidaxx escreveu:Será que eles estão com um caça stealth num hipotético futuro acordo para um high?
Na minha opinião se eles conseguirem sair dessa fase ruim, nada impediria que se esse acordo for para a frente e der certo, no futuro poderiam costurar um acordo mais abrangente, já tem os helicópteros na manga, agora esse, no futuro, quem sabe...
Up the Irons!!!
O elo entre o J-7 e o FC-1/JF-17 teve a ajuda da Grumman, até ser interrompida após Massacre da Praça da Paz Celestial em 1989 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sabre_II / http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... a/j-7p.htm ):Alcantara escreveu:NovaTO escreveu:
As origens desse caça remontam o MIG-21 chinês.
[]'s
The initial plan was somewhat modified design of a J-7, but what came out of it, was totally a new design, which has no similarity structure wise or design wise with J-7 or Mig-21.
If the basic design of the airframe of JF-17 is a further development of the F-7, then plzzz give us facts supporting it.
I stated above, just point out one single thing in the design of the JF-17 airframe, which has anything remotely similar with the
F-7 airframe. If it is, we will accept the JF-17 is a modified design of the F-7.
So how us the pictures of both airframes and the stuff in them which are similar.
If nothing comes out to be similar between the both designs, then this statement is absurd and has no credibility.
During the design phase, things may have changed and both parties may have agreed to go with something totally different then the earlier agreement of having something of a modified F-7. Thus we saw so many drastic changes and a completely new design, which has nothing in common with the F-7.
Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-a ... z2XKMUKPTm
Grumman reveals Sabre II for Pakistan
Grumman has completed a five-month feasibility study into a radical upgrade of China's Xian
F-7M (Mig-21 Fishbed), with Western engine, radar, and avionics allied with a completely new
forward fuselage. Known as Sabre II, the aircraft would replace 150 older Shenyang F-6s
(MiG- 19s) in Pakistan Air Force service. No details of the Sabre IPs powerplant or systems have
been released. The study is a co-operative effort by Grumman, Chengdu Aircraft Corporation,
China Aero Technology Import-Export Company, and the Pakistan Air Force.
Fonte: FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL, 19 September 1987: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/ ... sabre%20II
Grumman
pursues
Pakistan
fighter
KARACHI
A delegation from Grumman,
China's Chengdu aircraft
factory, and the Pakistan
Aeronautical Complex (PAC)
is visiting Karachi to promote
an extensively modified
version of China's F-7 (MiG-
21) fighter.
Called the Sabre II, the
fighter is being offered as a
low-cost alternative to the
F-16 to meet Pakistan's
150-aircraft requirement to
replace Chinese-supplied F-6s
(MiG-19s). The flyaway cost
will be $8-9 million.
Grumman completed a
feasibility study in 1987,
concluding that the F-7 could
be re-engined and given a new
forward fuselage with "solid"
nose and side intakes.
Chengdu would build the
revised rear fuselage to a
Grumman design, while the
US company would build the
new forward fuselage. PAC
would assemble the aircraft.
Grumman doubts that its
proposal will be accepted, but
believes that China could
become interested in the
modified F-7 for its own use.
The US company already has
a contract to upgrade China's
F-8 fighter, an enlarged,
twinengined derivative of the F-7,
now with side intakes and a
solid nose.
FLIGHT INTERNATIONAL, 13 February 1988: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/ ... Sabre%20II
MarditoBourne escreveu:Imagina a FAB comprando mais de uma centena para substituir os F5 e A1.
![[076]](./images/smilies/076.gif){kind=small}
Será que os russos liberariam as turbinas RD93/33 numa boa ou tentariam ao invés disso vender seus Mig-35/29 no lugar do FC-1?Lirolfuti escreveu:MarditoBourne escreveu:Imagina a FAB comprando mais de uma centena para substituir os F5 e A1.
Pogosyan to limit the supply of RD- 93 in China is fully justified
http://www.russiadefence.net/t934-pogos ... china#4050
TSAMTO, July 5. The position of vice president for program coordination and combat aircraft KLA, Director General of Sukhoi and MiG, Mikhail Pogosyan restrictive measures to tighten Russia 's delivery of RD -93 in China is fully justified, since their re-export to third countries, reduces the market MiG -29.
According to "Kommersant", in letters sent to FSMTC and Rosoboronexport, M. Pogosyan noted that the re-export of these engines has to be agreed with the producers of final products that would not prejudice". In Rosoboronexport, in turn , noted that " such an order to negotiate such contracts with the producers of final products, in this case the aircraft does not exist. "
According to Kommersant , the reason that M. Pogosyan made against another impending deal with China on the RD-93 was the clash of interests between Russia and China on the Egyptian market ( RD -93 used in the Chinese FC-1 fighters and their export options ).
Permission for re-export to Egypt, the RD -93 in the FC-1 was issued FSMTC in November 2007 . The engine can also be staged in Nigeria, Bangladesh, Saudi Arabia and Algeria. Re-export is carried out in accordance with the Government's decision . Therefore, the question of limiting re Russian engines should also be taken at the level of the Russian government.
The possibility of re- RD -93 to a third country in its time was considered a very long time. The main opponent of that decision, then acted Russian Defense Ministry.
The first contract to supply China 100 RD -93 in the amount of 237 million dollars was signed in 2005. Signed at the same time the framework agreement provides for the delivery of 500 RD - 93. China also said the possibility of purchasing up to 1000 upgraded the RD-93 engines with increased thrust . In this case, the overall program delivery RD-93 to China could make 3.75 billion dollars .
To date, the second contract to supply China's regular 100 RD -93 has not been signed , reports Reuters , citing sources in the defense industry .
It is obvious that the negotiations for this contract seriously progressed , forcing M. Pogosyan oppose this deal.
According to TSAMTO , Russia for several years has been negotiating with Egypt for the supply of up to 40 MiG-29 SMT . The contract to be signed by the scheme trade in ( the new machines in exchange for the old MiG-21 , raised in Egypt more than 35 years ago ).
Along with the negotiations with Russia and China, the Egyptian government has also initiated negotiations with Pakistan on the joint production of Chinese JF-17 (FC- 1) . Reassemble planned in Egypt. The volume of purchases may amount to no less than 48 JF- 17 " Thunder " . No concrete agreements have been reached and the timing of signing the contract talk premature.
The main reason for the success of the Chinese fighter in third camp is the price factor and relatively acceptable performance characteristics . Yielding to the MiG- 29 on their performance characteristics , the Chinese fighter jet is significantly cheaper .
The aircraft is equipped with a turbojet JF-17/FC-1 RD - 93. Prototype of JF-17 made its first flight in August 2003 . It is also envisaged the creation of two-seat training version of the combat fighter . Cost of JF-17 is estimated at 10-12 million dollars .
The pilot batch of four turbojet RD -93 was produced in China in 2002-2003. for flight tests on three experimental aircraft FC- 1.
Negotiations to conclude a contract for the delivery of the first consignment of engines were a very long time . China as the first phase proposes to supply 15 engines for a full set of flight tests . Russia, for its part, insisted on the delivery of the first phase of the 100 engines . As a result, the proposal of the Russian side was taken.
"Chinese " version of the RD -93 is a deep modernization of the Russian RD-33 turbojet for the MiG -29 has a lower location of the box units, provides traction and velocity of 8300 kg to 2000 km / h at altitude 16.5 km.
RD-93 turbojet developed by KB Plant them . Klimov .
During the negotiations to conclude a framework contract plant them. Klimov expressed willingness to improve engine RD - 93 for FC-1 fighter . As a result of its attraction can increase by almost 10%, and more manoeuvrable aircraft will provide the installation with diverging nozzle thrust vector. China , for its part, expressed the then intention to continue cooperation on the RD- 93, as interested in increasing the traction motor and install it vserakursny nozzle with diverging thrust vector.
Modernization of the RD- 93, providing for increasing traction with 8.3 to 9 mc , and installation of the nozzle with diverging thrust vector will significantly increase the performance of the FC- 1 and its combat effectiveness .
China has long been on the market for military aircraft of Egypt.
In December 1999, the Egyptian Ministry of Defense signed a five-year contract with China worth 345 million dollars on the production of 80 UBS K-8E « Karakorum "for the Egyptian Air Force . The first ten cars were built in China . Build the next two games out of 15 and 10 aircraft , respectively , was implemented at the facilities of the Egyptian company AOI from components of small and medium sizes. The remaining 45 cars were manufactured by 90 % in Egypt . In early 2005, Egypt has placed an additional order for another 40 aircraft K-8E. Thus, the total volume of the Egyptian order of 120 machines. Turbofan Engines TFE731-2A-2A for Egyptian K-8E put the U.S. company Allied Signal .
