NOTÍCIAS

Assuntos em discussão: Força Aérea Brasileira, forças aéreas estrangeiras e aviação militar.

Moderadores: Glauber Prestes, Conselho de Moderação

Mensagem
Autor
Avatar do usuário
Junker
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 1214
Registrado em: Sex Jan 19, 2007 3:47 pm

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23716 Mensagem por Junker » Sáb Dez 17, 2011 12:12 am

O problema não é do F-22, é do piloto que não conseguia respirar. Vergonhoso! :evil:
Pilot, not oxygen system, blamed in F-22 crash

By Dave Majumdar - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Dec 14, 2011 19:51:48 EST

Imagem
Capt. Jeffrey Haney, who died in the November 2010 crash, joined the Air Force in 2003.

An Air Force accident investigation board report blames the Nov. 16, 2010, crash of an F-22 Raptor on Capt. Jeff “Bong” Haney — despite a malfunction of the jet’s bleed air intakes, which caused an automatic shutdown of multiple aircraft systems including the primary oxygen system.


An aircraft’s engine bleed air system extracts air from a jet engine’s compressor section to generate power and supply gases for an aircraft’s life support system, among other systems.

The AIB report confirms Air Force Times’ Sept. 8 report, in which an industry source and a pilot both said that a bleed air malfunction had caused the crash by shutting down the oxygen system. The AIB, however, places the blame on Haney for not reacting quickly enough to activate the jet’s emergency oxygen system or recover from a dive he inadvertently entered into as he struggled to regain his air supply.

“I find the cause of the mishap was the MP’s [mishap pilot] failure to recognize and initiate a timely dive recovery due to channelized attention, breakdown of visual scan and unrecognized spatial disorientation,” wrote Brig. Gen. James Browne, president of the AIB.

The F-22’s On-board Oxygen Generating System, which supplies breathing air to the pilot and has been under investigation for most of the year, did not malfunction and wasn’t a contributing factor, the report said. But the crucial device did shut down because of the bleed-air problem. In September, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz said oxygen had not played any role in the crash.

The report notes that “the MP most likely experienced a sense similar to suffocation,” but also rules out hypoxia as contribution factor however despite the shut down of the oxygen system.

“Due to the high affinity of oxygen to hemoglobin, the MP would have had adequate blood oxygen supply after the OBOGS failed,” the AIB report states. “It was concluded that the late recognition of the MA’s [mishap aircraft’s] unusual attitude and appropriate corrective actions attempted by the MP demonstrates that hypoxia was not a factor in this mishap.”

A knowledgeable source agreed that Haney would not have fully succumbed to hypoxia, but would have been showing symptoms. Despite what the report says, the source said hypoxia would have played a role even if the pilot had not been rendered unconscious.

“The rate at which he descended, though, he would have been at a hypoxia-safe altitude within time to have not fully succumbed to hypoxia and should have only had symptoms versus unconsciousness,” the source said.

The environmental control system, air cycle system, On-Board Inert Gas Generating System, cabin pressure and OBOGS were all shut down when the aircraft’s computer shut off the malfunctioning bleed-air system, according to the AIB report. The bleed-air system remains closed in the event of a malfunction to prevent fires.

The aircraft’s memory unit showed “partial pressure to the MP’s [mishap pilot] oxygen stopped shortly after 19:42:37 L, which would lead to severely restricted breathing,” the accident report reads.

However, Haney did retain enough consciousness to attempt a recovery from a steep dive the aircraft entered into right before the crash. It was too late, however, as the Raptor impacted the ground a scant three seconds later.

However, Haney did not manage to active the Emergency Oxygen System to supply him with air, which he needed to do in case the OBOGS shutdown. As the report notes “severely restricted breathing is a physiological symptom which would have prompted the [mishap pilot] to active the EOS.”

Pilots have said that the emergency oxygen supply is notoriously difficult to use in the Raptor.

The AIB report states that as Haney struggled for air, “he channelized his attention on restoring airflow to his oxygen mask.”

As Haney fought to restore his oxygen supply, he inadvertently began to roll the aircraft and his “visual scan” of the aircraft’s instruments and external situation broke down. He entered into a state of “unrecognized spatial disorientation,” according to the AIB report. The aircraft rolled 240 degrees and dropped to a 53 degree nose down attitude. Had Haney not been distracted by trying to breathe, he would have recognized the problem, the report reads. Haney didn’t make any intentional control inputs for some 39 seconds.

“The fact that the [mishap pilot] went from a controlled flight regime to an unusual attitude and did not take corrective actions for 30 seconds suggests he had unrecognized spatial disorientation,” the AIB report reads. “At 19:42:24L the [mishap pilot] recognized the [mishap aircraft’s] position and attempted to perform a dive recovery.”

Ultimately, the Air Force chose to blame Haney rather than attribute the crash to a malfunctioning bleed-air system and a difficult to use emergency oxygen supply.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/static/pro ... 121411.pdf

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/ ... d-121411w/




Avatar do usuário
P44
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 55265
Registrado em: Ter Dez 07, 2004 6:34 am
Localização: O raio que vos parta
Agradeceu: 2753 vezes
Agradeceram: 2435 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23717 Mensagem por P44 » Sáb Dez 17, 2011 7:03 pm

PM Visit: India to Buy 42 ‘Upgraded’ Sukhois


(Source: Express India; published Dec. 15, 2011)



NEW DELHI --- After negotiating for more than a year, India has firmed up an order with Russia for the purchase of 42 upgraded Sukhoi-30 MKI aircraft to strengthen its aging fleet. An agreement confirming this purchase will be signed during Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s visit to Russia starting Thursday.

While the Cabinet Committee on Security had taken a decision on buying 42 additional Sukhoi MKIs last year, negotiations have taken longer because India was also keen to include some of the features found in fifth generation fighter aircraft. Finally, the Russian side agreed to upgrade the SU-30 MKIs to its latest version known as ‘Super Sukhoi’ with additional characteristics.

The new version is expected to include a new cockpit, an upgraded radar and certain stealth features to avoid radar detection. Significantly, the upgraded Sukhoi-30 MKIs will be able to carry a heavier weapons load, especially the airborne version of the Brahmos cruise missile. India is also looking to upgrade most of its SU-30 MKIs in the long run.

While Russia may have lost out in the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft deal because of not being able to offer certain additional features, officials said, Moscow has assured New Delhi that it will roll out its best in upgraded SU-30 MKIs.

“The defence cooperation is robust and excellent. Our two countries have developed maturity that individual deals will not affect the ties,” said Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai while responding to a question on whether the MMRCA rejection will impact defence ties.

The deal, estimated at over Rs 20,000 crore, will be operational in three years with the first delivery expected in 2014 and the last by 2018. Once the 42 aircraft are inducted, the total strength of SU-30 MKI fleet will go up to 272.

It may be noted that by 2017, India plans to phase out 120 MiG 21s and with the MMRCA still not a done deal, the SU-30 MKI fleet will be the mainstay.

Meanwhile, India and Russia have still not finalised the agreement for two more reactors at Koodankulam. Though indications are that the deal will not be signed during the PM’s visit, Mathai said that a call is yet to taken on the subject.

-ends-

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... 0mkis.html




Triste sina ter nascido português 👎
Carlos Mathias

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23718 Mensagem por Carlos Mathias » Dom Dez 18, 2011 12:36 am

“The defence cooperation is robust and excellent. Our two countries have developed maturity that individual deals will not affect the ties,”
Isso é mentira! :x
Os russos não fazem ToTs, são cachaceiros, não fornecem manuais em ingrêis, são uns FDP...Esqueci alguma coisa?




Avatar do usuário
Carlos Lima
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 18932
Registrado em: Qui Mai 12, 2005 6:58 am
Agradeceu: 1275 vezes
Agradeceram: 631 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23719 Mensagem por Carlos Lima » Dom Dez 18, 2011 1:02 am

Carlos Mathias escreveu:
“The defence cooperation is robust and excellent. Our two countries have developed maturity that individual deals will not affect the ties,”
Isso é mentira! :x
Os russos não fazem ToTs, são cachaceiros, não fornecem manuais em ingrêis, são uns FDP...Esqueci alguma coisa?
Parafuso invertido... painel azul calcinha... :lol:

[]s
CB_Lima




CB_Lima = Carlos Lima :)
Carlos Mathias

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23720 Mensagem por Carlos Mathias » Dom Dez 18, 2011 1:19 am

Ah!
Obrigado meu bom amigo, ajudando um velhinho e sua pobre memória. :mrgreen:




gribel
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 1290
Registrado em: Dom Out 18, 2009 2:18 am
Localização: Juiz de Fora _ MG
Agradeceu: 78 vezes
Agradeceram: 10 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23721 Mensagem por gribel » Dom Dez 18, 2011 1:23 am

E ninguém conseguiu ler o Tolstoi nem o Dostô e tals....




Avatar do usuário
GDA_Fear
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 2088
Registrado em: Dom Out 26, 2008 6:55 pm
Localização: Florianópolis, SC
Agradeceram: 1 vez

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23722 Mensagem por GDA_Fear » Dom Dez 18, 2011 4:10 pm

Junker escreveu:O problema não é do F-22, é do piloto que não conseguia respirar. Vergonhoso! :evil:
Pilot, not oxygen system, blamed in F-22 crash

By Dave Majumdar - Staff writer
Posted : Wednesday Dec 14, 2011 19:51:48 EST

Imagem
Capt. Jeffrey Haney, who died in the November 2010 crash, joined the Air Force in 2003.

An Air Force accident investigation board report blames the Nov. 16, 2010, crash of an F-22 Raptor on Capt. Jeff “Bong” Haney — despite a malfunction of the jet’s bleed air intakes, which caused an automatic shutdown of multiple aircraft systems including the primary oxygen system.


An aircraft’s engine bleed air system extracts air from a jet engine’s compressor section to generate power and supply gases for an aircraft’s life support system, among other systems.

The AIB report confirms Air Force Times’ Sept. 8 report, in which an industry source and a pilot both said that a bleed air malfunction had caused the crash by shutting down the oxygen system. The AIB, however, places the blame on Haney for not reacting quickly enough to activate the jet’s emergency oxygen system or recover from a dive he inadvertently entered into as he struggled to regain his air supply.

“I find the cause of the mishap was the MP’s [mishap pilot] failure to recognize and initiate a timely dive recovery due to channelized attention, breakdown of visual scan and unrecognized spatial disorientation,” wrote Brig. Gen. James Browne, president of the AIB.

The F-22’s On-board Oxygen Generating System, which supplies breathing air to the pilot and has been under investigation for most of the year, did not malfunction and wasn’t a contributing factor, the report said. But the crucial device did shut down because of the bleed-air problem. In September, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz said oxygen had not played any role in the crash.

The report notes that “the MP most likely experienced a sense similar to suffocation,” but also rules out hypoxia as contribution factor however despite the shut down of the oxygen system.

“Due to the high affinity of oxygen to hemoglobin, the MP would have had adequate blood oxygen supply after the OBOGS failed,” the AIB report states. “It was concluded that the late recognition of the MA’s [mishap aircraft’s] unusual attitude and appropriate corrective actions attempted by the MP demonstrates that hypoxia was not a factor in this mishap.”

A knowledgeable source agreed that Haney would not have fully succumbed to hypoxia, but would have been showing symptoms. Despite what the report says, the source said hypoxia would have played a role even if the pilot had not been rendered unconscious.

“The rate at which he descended, though, he would have been at a hypoxia-safe altitude within time to have not fully succumbed to hypoxia and should have only had symptoms versus unconsciousness,” the source said.

The environmental control system, air cycle system, On-Board Inert Gas Generating System, cabin pressure and OBOGS were all shut down when the aircraft’s computer shut off the malfunctioning bleed-air system, according to the AIB report. The bleed-air system remains closed in the event of a malfunction to prevent fires.

The aircraft’s memory unit showed “partial pressure to the MP’s [mishap pilot] oxygen stopped shortly after 19:42:37 L, which would lead to severely restricted breathing,” the accident report reads.

However, Haney did retain enough consciousness to attempt a recovery from a steep dive the aircraft entered into right before the crash. It was too late, however, as the Raptor impacted the ground a scant three seconds later.

However, Haney did not manage to active the Emergency Oxygen System to supply him with air, which he needed to do in case the OBOGS shutdown. As the report notes “severely restricted breathing is a physiological symptom which would have prompted the [mishap pilot] to active the EOS.”

Pilots have said that the emergency oxygen supply is notoriously difficult to use in the Raptor.

The AIB report states that as Haney struggled for air, “he channelized his attention on restoring airflow to his oxygen mask.”

As Haney fought to restore his oxygen supply, he inadvertently began to roll the aircraft and his “visual scan” of the aircraft’s instruments and external situation broke down. He entered into a state of “unrecognized spatial disorientation,” according to the AIB report. The aircraft rolled 240 degrees and dropped to a 53 degree nose down attitude. Had Haney not been distracted by trying to breathe, he would have recognized the problem, the report reads. Haney didn’t make any intentional control inputs for some 39 seconds.

“The fact that the [mishap pilot] went from a controlled flight regime to an unusual attitude and did not take corrective actions for 30 seconds suggests he had unrecognized spatial disorientation,” the AIB report reads. “At 19:42:24L the [mishap pilot] recognized the [mishap aircraft’s] position and attempted to perform a dive recovery.”

Ultimately, the Air Force chose to blame Haney rather than attribute the crash to a malfunctioning bleed-air system and a difficult to use emergency oxygen supply.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/static/pro ... 121411.pdf

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/ ... d-121411w/

Entendi ao contrário, entendi que teve problema no sistema principal de oxigênio que foi interrompido por um período e que o piloto do Raptor teve dificuldade para respirar, ficando desorientado por falta de oxigênio.




Avatar do usuário
Junker
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 1214
Registrado em: Sex Jan 19, 2007 3:47 pm

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23723 Mensagem por Junker » Dom Dez 18, 2011 6:05 pm

O relatório da USAF diz claramente: Culpa do MP (mishap pilot) em iniciar a recuperação e a falha de treinamento, fator secundário do acidente. E no OBOGS, que levou à hipoxia do piloto - e que obrigou o Raptor a ficar metade deste ano no chão - nenhuma culpa.

Imagem

Tem muito piloto que ficou "desapontado" com o "relatório":
Ben Moritz - USAF escreveu: what this really means, is that by putting the blame on the pilot instead of the bleed air system, the family can't sue anyone (AF, Lockheed, parts supplier, etc.) and receive any more financial reimbursement for their loss. Definitely need to raise the BS flag.
Ted West escreveu: I wasn't going to comment, as I'm not a Raptordriver, but figure having seen the back seat of an F-15D, and knowing several F-22 pilots coupled with the fact I no longer have to say Mother-May-I to the troubled USAF leadership - I will say something. First, RIP Capt "Bong" Haney, I know it took a a helluva man to get to fly the Raptor although I didn't personally know you. Besides, if SECDEF Gates wanted to pick Gen Schwartz to break up the "Fighter Mafia" leading the AF, he also paved the way for allowing competition to go down a peg. Many don't want to say it bluntly, but the best academically and most skilled of UPT get the top cut of Fighters to fly operationally. When was it okay to let a #2...or later guy lead the Force? This sets precedence that it is okay to not be the absolute best. If Norty was so noble, he would Retire already to absorb true accountability due to the botch up of the Mortuary affairs at Dover putting all those bodies in a VA landfill during his reign. An AIB again declaring 'pilot error' seems like the standard CYA approach and is very insensitive to the Family and others involved. Maybe they do train to pull the emergency O. button, but do they really train to hold your breath like a Navy diver...The USAF is falling from grace quickly as prided with the highest standards and great 'attention to detail,' yet they are claiming to be so precise it is to a fault. I think Brig Gen Browne was probably just doing what he expected to keep his career over, rather than taking a selfless move and showing divine empathy to the family and brotherhood of the fallen Aviator.
Isaac Bell escreveu:Very, very disappointing. To Bong's family, our community knows your son was not at fault here. Our deepest sympathy and apologies go out to you.
Ben Jarvis escreveu: the problem caused the crash simple enough fix the problem. If it had not malfunctioned in the first place then this incident that has affected my family would not have happened shame on the Air Force for blaming the pilot, they should accept the fact that they made a problem and that it caused the events leading up to the crash.
O relatório é de julho, o F-22 ficou estava no chão desde maio culpa do OBOGS. Pura má-fé do Brigadeiro e da AIB.




Petry
Avançado
Avançado
Mensagens: 451
Registrado em: Ter Jul 06, 2010 10:43 pm
Agradeceu: 22 vezes
Agradeceram: 45 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23724 Mensagem por Petry » Dom Dez 18, 2011 9:35 pm

O que é mais fácil por a culpa, num piloto já morto ou um componente ou aeronave que é o top do marketing e que precisa demosntrar que seu alto valor é justificável?

Oficialemnte no texto a culpa pode ser do piloto, mas aposto que nos bastidores todo mundo tem certeza que foi alguma falha mecânica ou de projeto.




Avatar do usuário
Justin Case
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 1762
Registrado em: Dom Jan 17, 2010 7:28 pm
Localização: Brasília-DF Brazil
Agradeceu: 146 vezes
Agradeceram: 230 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23725 Mensagem por Justin Case » Dom Dez 18, 2011 10:18 pm

Petry escreveu:O que é mais fácil por a culpa, num piloto já morto ou um componente ou aeronave que é o top do marketing e que precisa demosntrar que seu alto valor é justificável?

Oficialemnte no texto a culpa pode ser do piloto, mas aposto que nos bastidores todo mundo tem certeza que foi alguma falha mecânica ou de projeto.
Amigos, boa noite.

Dificilmente um acidente tem causa única. Por isso, é mais comum que se investiguem os fatores contribuintes.
Certamente houve um problema técnico, mas o piloto, utilizando os procedimentos previstos, poderia ter controlado a situação.
- Por que não efetuou os procedimentos? Muito campo para investigar.
- Por que o sistema falhou? Muito campo para investigar.
No final, a causa sempre será uma falha humana.
Essa falha humana pode ser:
- Do piloto;
- Do mecânico que efetuou a manutenção;
- Do operário que fabricou;
- Do engenheiro que projetou;
- De quem gerou ou pariu as criaturas; :shock:
- Ou de muitos destes, com vários níveis de culpa.
Além disso, todos os chefes na cadeia hierárquica são responsáveis, mesmo que não tenham culpa.
Então, se não foi identificado dolo ou má fé, que se busque relacionar os fatores contribuintes, que se corrijam as falhas, que se instruam os homens, que se modifiquem os projetos e procedimentos, que se evite a repetição de ocorrências semelhantes.
O foco tem que estar em evitar futuros acidentes.
Infelizmente, o que se vê ultimamente é uma busca insana por nomes a culpar, uma busca de "reparações" milionárias pela perda do ente querido acidentado.
A prevenção de acidentes muitas vezes fica em segundo plano, até nos fóruns.
Abraços,

Justin




Avatar do usuário
Algus
Avançado
Avançado
Mensagens: 507
Registrado em: Ter Dez 23, 2008 2:17 pm
Agradeceu: 38 vezes
Agradeceram: 48 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23726 Mensagem por Algus » Seg Dez 19, 2011 11:00 am

Montadora sueca Saab pede falência

Agência Brasil
BRASÍLIA — O presidente e acionista majoritário da montadora de automóveis sueca Saab, Victor Muller, declarou nesta segunda-feira (19) a insolvência da empresa. Com essa determinação, a Saab abandonou qualquer esperança de sobrevivência, depois de passar nove meses sem produzir.

A última chance da empresa tinha sido conversas com a China Automotive Group Youngman, feitas durante o fim de semana na capital sueca, Estocolmo. No entanto, o presidente anunciou que o grupo chinês retirou seus planos de investir na Saab e disse que a falência é a melhor opção para os credores.


Antiga proprietária da Saab, a General Motors (GM) advertiu neste fim de semana que não permitiria a venda de tecnologia sob seu controle a investidores chineses.


A Saab deve salários aos seus 3,5 mil funcionários na fábrica de Trollhattan desde o final de novembro e detêm milhões em dívida com seus fornecedores. Até o início de 2010, a empresa pertencia à GM. Depois, foi vendida à empresa holandesa Spyker Cars.


Todas as tentativas para salvar a empresa, por meio de colaboração com parceiros na Rússia e na China, foram em vão.

Perguntas:
- Esta SAAB é a mesma que produz o Gripen ou são duas empresas com capital diferenciado?
- Haverá implicações em relação ao FX?
- Seria viável a Embraer aproveitar esta crise e comprar a SAAB?




Avatar do usuário
J.Ricardo
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 7582
Registrado em: Qui Jan 13, 2005 1:44 pm
Agradeceu: 2533 vezes
Agradeceram: 1020 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23727 Mensagem por J.Ricardo » Seg Dez 19, 2011 11:22 am

A SAAB automóvies não tem nada haver com a SAAB do Gripen.




Não temais ímpias falanges,
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
Avatar do usuário
guilhermecn
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 853
Registrado em: Seg Ago 03, 2009 6:03 pm
Localização: São Paulo, Brasil
Agradeceu: 61 vezes
Agradeceram: 4 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23728 Mensagem por guilhermecn » Seg Dez 19, 2011 11:53 am

Existe o SAAB Group. Dentro há a SAAB automóveis, a SAAB militar (Gripen, soluções de segurança, RBS-70...) e a Scania (caminhões). Uma das empresas do grupo, a SAAB de carros, que faliu




"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life."
Winston Churchill


Imagem
Avatar do usuário
J.Ricardo
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 7582
Registrado em: Qui Jan 13, 2005 1:44 pm
Agradeceu: 2533 vezes
Agradeceram: 1020 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23729 Mensagem por J.Ricardo » Seg Dez 19, 2011 2:13 pm

Guilherme, a SAAB automóveis era uma empresa da antiga GM!




Não temais ímpias falanges,
Que apresentam face hostil,
Vossos peitos, vossos braços,
São muralhas do Brasil!
Avatar do usuário
Penguin
Sênior
Sênior
Mensagens: 18983
Registrado em: Seg Mai 19, 2003 10:07 pm
Agradeceu: 5 vezes
Agradeceram: 374 vezes

Re: NOTÍCIAS

#23730 Mensagem por Penguin » Seg Dez 19, 2011 3:33 pm

J.Ricardo escreveu:Guilherme, a SAAB automóveis era uma empresa da antiga GM!
- Em 1989 a GM adquiriu a Saab Automobile da Saab.
- Em 2010 a GM vendeu a Saab Automobile para a empresa holandesa Spyker Cars.
- Em 2011 a Saab Automobile pediu concordata. Os chineses tentaram adquirir o controle da empresa, mas a GM bloqueou aos potenciais controladores chineses o acesso a sua tecnologia em uso pela Saab. Sem saída, a Saab Automobile decretou falência.




Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Responder