MMRCA - FX Indiano

[AlbertoRJ]

Não, não tá não.
Eu agora sou como os gripados, acredito mais no relatório vazado, a verdade suprema.

É muito engraçado como as opiniões mudam.

[Penguin]

Eu gostaria de saber o que faz a informação do Índia Today ser mais "verdadeira" que a da TimesNow???

Se compararmos o que seria o short list, o TimesNow é bem mais coerente, a Short list do Índia Today é um saco de gatos.

[]´s

Que short list do India Today? O India Today não apresentou nenhum palpite:

Segundo nosso contato na Índia, Sandeep Unnithan, editor do India Today, as últimas informações sobre o “short-list” do MMRCA são apenas boatos, nada há de concreto.

O LiveFist ontem postou artigo da Strategic Affairs Magazine - August 15 Edition que divulgou o short list Mig-35, F-16 e Typhoon.

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[Penguin]

‘IAF combat jet selection will be political decision’

Thu Aug 12 2010 09:02:29 GMT-0300 (E. South America Standard Time) by IANS ( Leave a comment )

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/bus ... 11152.html

New Delhi, Aug 12 (IANS) The Indian Air Force (IAF) might have laid down 643 parameters while evaluating the six fighters in contention for its $10 billion order for 126 medium multi-role combat jets (MMRCAs) but the eventual decision on this will be taken at the political level, an informed source said Thursday.

“The evaluation was meticulously done with the aircraft examined on 643 parameters. We have submitted a report to the defence ministry stating to which extent the aircraft were compliant,” the source said, requesting anonymity as he was not authorised to speak to the media.

“We have done an objective assessment taking into account the needs of national security. There will be political considerations (in making the final choice).

“The cost will be a factor. Politics will also be a factor,” the source said, adding: “We have not graded the aircraft but only stated the extent to which they are compliant with the parameters we laid down.”

The IAF submitted its report last month. Once this is evaluated by the ministry, all six manufacturers will be called and told which three of them have been shortlisted for the final round. The commercial bids of these three manufacturers will then be opened and negotiations conducted to decide on the eventual price.

The contract is likely to be signed early in 2011.

The six jets in contention are the Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, the Lockheed Martin F-16IN Super Viper, the Eurofighter Typhoon, the Saab Gripen, the Dasault Rafale and the MiG-35.

One set of flight trials was conducted in India last year and another in the country of manufacture earlier this year, which included the live firing of ammunition.

Eighteen of the planes will be bought in a fly-away condition and the remaining manufactured in India by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) under a transfer of technology (TOT) agreement.

[AlbertoRJ]

Não, decisão política não pode!

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[Justin Case]

Amigos, bom dia.

Mais sobre o mesmo assunto:
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/bi ... pdate.html
Abraços,

Justin

[Justin Case]

E ainda:

http://sify.com/finance/iaf-combat-jet- ... gdjij.html

Serão três no "short list"?!

Abraços,

Justin

[Penguin]

Amigos, bom dia.

Mais sobre o mesmo assunto:
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/bi ... pdate.html
Abraços,

Justin

Essa análise tem infomações em comum com o artigo to Thaindia:


THURSDAY, AUGUST 12, 2010

A Big Fat MMRCA Update
http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/08/bi ... pdate.html

Sick of hearsay and rumours? Well, here's some stuff that's confirmed true, new, and potentially explosive for contenders in the Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition. Let me just start by saying that the ball is squarely with the MoD now -- the field evaluation trial report has been submitted, but has not yet been approved by the MoD. There is likely to be a measure of back and forth between South Block and Vayu Bhawan before it is approved and passed on for the next stage. In the meanwhile, chew on this. No rumours here.

Point One, The Indian Air Force won't choose a twin-engine aircraft in the MMRCA, if a single-engine aircraft can "do the job", i.e, is satisfactorily compliant on all 643 test points that each of the six airplanes were tested for during the field evaluation trials (FETs). The IAF is of the view that both single and twin engine platforms have their own advantages, but that it will not discriminate between the two. If all six aircraft are compliant, the cheapest will be selected whether its twin or single-engined.

Point Two, and this is a biggie -- The model being used to gauge cost is not the lifecycle cost (LCC) model as was previously thought. That model has been dumped since the IAF perceives it to be indeterminable (read, ambiguous), and not measured in precisely the same way across the six aircraft being offered. In other words, the MMRCA purchase model will be based on unit flyaway cost of aircraft and financing options -- i.e, not overall cost of ownership. The IAF decided that it would only work with what is "determinable". In other words, no complex formulae on future savings on maintenance and overhaul. Do you see why I used the word bombshell in the post title?

Point Three, cost is going to be a big determinant. Out of the six aircraft that are judged compliant, the cheapest will be identified as L1, and will logically be the chosen aircraft.

Point Three-and-a-half, it emerges now that each vendor was extensively briefed on their performance once the trials were over, so they have a comprehensive sense of how they performed -- their function of compliance, if you will -- but they have nothing to compare it with. So unless you account for industrial espionage, none of the vendors know how the others have performed, but know exactly how well or badly their own platform performed during trials.

Point Four, the air force's trial report has been submitted to the MoD, but the latter hasn't approved it yet. The trial report strictly contains a tabulated representation of each contending platform's compliance or otherwise for each of 643 test points. Significantly, the trial report does not quantify the level of compliance of each airplane, but rather leaves this for the MoD to understand. In other words, the trial report has all the data and results, but no recommendations, no merit list, no explicit downselect, no stated eliminations, nothing. Yet, by virtue of the data it presents, everything is implicit. It provides the data. It provides the benchmarks for compliance. The MoD figures out who's in, who's not quite in, who's definitely out. The IAF hasn't put that down. The IAF has submitted a "factual report" -- the rest is upto the MoD. Again, there's been no ranking at any stage.

Point Five, there have been frequent attempts by various players to suggest that some of the non-US contenders will have trouble getting export licenses for subsystems that may be of American origin (like the Gripen's engines, weapons on some of the others etc). Let's lay that to rest for now -- the IAF extracted government-endorsed guarantees from each such contending vendor that there would be no problems in the supply of such equipment, and it was based on this guarantee certificate that the contender was allowed to participate in trials.

Finally, the option exists for the IAF to go for more than 126 aircraft, but a decision has not yet been taken on whether to club that option with the principal purchase.

[PRick]

Se compararmos o que seria o short list, o TimesNow é bem mais coerente, a Short list do Índia Today é um saco de gatos.

[]´s

Que short list do India Today? O India Today não apresentou nenhum palpite:

Segundo nosso contato na Índia, Sandeep Unnithan, editor do India Today, as últimas informações sobre o “short-list” do MMRCA são apenas boatos, nada há de concreto.

O LiveFist ontem postou artigo da Strategic Affairs Magazine - August 15 Edition que divulgou o short list Mig-35, F-16 e Typhoon.

[]s

Era sobre esse artigo que estava falando, não sei quem rebateu quem, isso é tudo a mesma máfia, apenas coloquei, essa Short List não tem critério, parece um saco de gatos.

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[Carlos Mathias]

Se o custo for realmente determinante, o MIG-35 leva fácil.

[Carlos Lima]

Se o custo for realmente determinante, o MIG-35 leva fácil.

Eu ainda acho que o Mig-35 tem as maiores chances de levar essa, seguido pelo Rafale/Typhoon...

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CB_Lima

[soultrain]

Não acredito no Mig, porque historicamente a IAF sempre usou um mix de plataformas ocidentais e Russas, é o nome do jogo diplomático por lá. Até porque a Índia tem um cachorro muito grande à porta e não é o Paquistão, é a China.

Sem essa plataforma ocidental, ficará muita limitada em nova tecnologia militar ocidental.

Grande chance para o EF e Rafale, seguido da Boeing, sem grande chance para a LM, é como vejo as coisas.

[[]]'s

[Hader]

Não acredito no Mig, porque historicamente a IAF sempre usou um mix de plataformas ocidentais e Russas, é o nome do jogo diplomático por lá. Até porque a Índia tem um cachorro muito grande à porta e não é o Paquistão, é a China.

Sem essa plataforma ocidental, ficará muita limitada em nova tecnologia militar ocidental.

Grande chance para o EF e Rafale, seguido da Boeing, sem grande chance para a LM, é como vejo as coisas.

[[]]'s

X2!

[Carlos Mathias]

É Soultrain, tua análise é a lógica, está correta.
Apenas conjecturei baseado no chute do tal jornal.

Mas acho que se a linha do Matusão estivesse aberta ainda hoje, seria esse que ganharia.

[Penguin]

AVIATIONWEEK.COM

Indian Fighter Downselect Coming

Aug 12, 2010

By Neelam Mathews mathews.neelam@gmail.com
NEW DELHI

With flight trials complete, the downselect process has begun for the six candidate fighters in India’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) program, a competition with a $10 billion-plus payday for providing 126 aircraft.

Opinions vary widely among observers on how long it will take to narrow the field to two finalists from among the MiG-35, Dassault Rafale, EADS Eurofighter, Saab Gripen, Boeing F/A-18 and Lockheed Martin F-16.

Some speculate an announcement might come in just two weeks. Others insist it will take much longer to evaluate the extensive technical reports that the tests have produced. Regardless, a commercial bidding process will follow the announcement. Final selection is to be made by the end of 2011.

Trials included 643 test points. Results are being forwarded as tabulated data without a quantification of the level of compliance achieved, a senior Indian air force official reports. “We have done an objective assessment and are taking into account the needs of national security,” he says. But cost and politics will play a role in the defense ministry’s selection, he acknowledges.

French President Sarkozy’s visit to India this year is expected to be followed by a host of inducements, including a large transfer of technology, on behalf of the Rafale.

India has yet to sign the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement with the U.S. that sets limits on what sensitive technology the U.S. will export. It may be signed during President Barack Obama’s scheduled visit to India in November.

Beyond informal briefings said to already have taken place, the six manufacturers are to receive a 250-page technical evaluation of how they did. Problems during the trials included the failures of engines and large electromechanical actuation systems.

Meanwhile, the defense ministry has revealed that it will buy 42 more Su-30MKI fighters, with deliveries to unfold between 2014-2018 (Aerospace DAILY, Aug. 11). The $4.3 billion deal, which will run through Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., is a top-up order that is to bring the Indian Su-30 inventory to more than 250 aircraft and the number of HAL-assembled versions to close to 200 fighters.

Talks continue with Russia about joint development of the T-50 (or PAK-FA), a fifth-generation fighter developed by Sukhoi. The program is valued at $8 billion. Whether those talks will work to the advantage of the MiG-35 MMRCA fighter candidate is unclear.

[Penguin]

Foi-se o tempo em que o Su-30 eram baratinho...

Meanwhile, the defense ministry has revealed that it will buy 42 more Su-30MKI fighters, with deliveries to unfold between 2014-2018 (Aerospace DAILY, Aug. 11). The $4.3 billion deal, which will run through Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., is a top-up order that is to bring the Indian Su-30 inventory to more than 250 aircraft and the number of HAL-assembled versions to close to 200 fighters.