Moderadores: Glauber Prestes, Conselho de Moderação
O custo é astronômico porque turbina, radar, computador de voo e outros itens importantes são revisados na França. Os franceses propuseram fazer esse trabalho aqui e a FAB não quis para não se envolver com o avião.pampa_01 escreveu:Muito já foi dito que o custo operacional do M2000C da Fab é astronomico, valeria a pena modernizá-los apesar disso? Será que a relação custo/beneficio não seria largamente favorável ao vencedor do FX2?
Dizem o mesmo do Mirage III/V e eles sempre surpreendem. Claro que é preciso passar por uma boa revisão. No caso do Mirage 2000, como no Mirage III/V, basta substituir elementos verticais na estrutura da asa. O pacote indiano prevê a revisão estrutural (foram aviões empregados pesadamente em ataques a terra), a troca de aviônicos, radares e computadores de bordo a um custo de US$ 30 milhões. Se3 o avião fosse ruim ou frágil não investiriam tanto nele.Santiago escreveu: Eram do lote inicial de 37 construídos. Inclusive com a turbina antiga, a M53-5
Indestrutivel?!http://www.mirage-jet.com/AIRFRAME/MAIN ... inte_1.htmMaintenance
Dassault is always keen to emphasize the longevity of the Mirage 2000. The airframe life has been increased to 7,500 hours and is guaranteed to 5,000 hours
O SU-35 não concorre no MMRCA.P44 escreveu:Mig-35 ou Su-35?
Pelo que eu sei, não...sapao escreveu:A ida do 1/4 para Manaus esta condicionada a modernização dos F-5 da jordania?
USD2,2bi para 51 aeronaves. Os indianos conseguiram uns extras com esse pacote. O pacote de modernização da IAI custava quase a metade do pacote da Dassault. Depois de muitos anos de negociações, os indianos por fim escolheram o pacote da Dassault. Os indianos conseguiram evitar o fornecimento de aviônicos e equipamentos franceses para a versão paquistanesa do JF-17.Pepê Rezende escreveu:Dizem o mesmo do Mirage III/V e eles sempre surpreendem. Claro que é preciso passar por uma boa revisão. No caso do Mirage 2000, como no Mirage III/V, basta substituir elementos verticais na estrutura da asa. O pacote indiano prevê a revisão estrutural (foram aviões empregados pesadamente em ataques a terra), a troca de aviônicos, radares e computadores de bordo a um custo de US$ 30 milhões. Se3 o avião fosse ruim ou frágil não investiriam tanto nele.Santiago escreveu: Eram do lote inicial de 37 construídos. Inclusive com a turbina antiga, a M53-5
Indestrutivel?! http://www.mirage-jet.com/AIRFRAME/MAIN ... inte_1.htm
Abraços
Pepê
India inks Mirage deal, France says no to Pak
Posted: Mon Apr 05 2010, 03:43 hrs
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/India ... Pak/600042
Reports say France's plans to sell $1.6 bn worth of military equipment for Pak's JF 17 fighters has been put on hold.
India last week finalised a $2.2 billion deal with France to upgrade its fleet of Mirage 2000 fighters, even as reports from Paris say the country has suspended the sale of electronics and missiles for Pakistan’s JF 17 fighters, supposedly under “Indian pressure”.
While the IAF deal for upgradation of 51 fighters had been hanging fire for the past two years, sources said the Price Negotiation Committee last week finalised the cost. The deal is likely to be signed shortly.
At $2.2 billion, the cost of the upgrade is considered to be on the higher side, given that several countries are offering new fighters for that price. However, the French argue that the upgrade, which will give the aircraft new radar systems, a new weapon suite, missiles, electronic warfare system and modern electronic warfare, will convert the combat-proven aircraft into next-generation fighters.
The final price negotiations were held even as reports from Paris, carried by French newspapers and agencies, said that its plans to sell $1.6 billion worth of military equipment for Pakistan’s JF 17 fighters had been put on hold.
The reports said that the contract was suspended under Indian pressure and doubts over Pakistan’s ability to pay for the systems.
France says arms sale to Pakistan held up
PARIS, April 2 (Reuters) - France's plan to sell 1.2 billion euro ($1.6 billion) worth of military equipment for Pakistan's JF-17 combat aircraft has been held up, a source at President Nicolas Sarkozy's office said on Friday.
Newspaper Le Monde had reported earlier that France decided to suspend the sale of electronics and missiles -- the first section of a 6 billion euro contract -- under pressure from India and uncertainty over Pakistan's finances.
"It's a deal that's not ready from the Pakistani side," the source said, without giving further details. "For now, the state of the dossier doesn't allow us to carry on with it."
A consortium made up of French company ATE, arms group Thales (TCFP.PA) and missile manufacturer MBDA was supposed to produce the equipment, Le Monde said. Thales declined to comment.
France was also worried over insufficient protection of its technology, with Pakistan pushing to assemble the equipment on its soil, the paper said.
In February, MBDA said it planned to upgrade India's Mirage 2000 fighters and was looking to expand in India.
Le Monde said talks over that upgrade also played a role in the decision. (Reporting by Sophie Hardach and Yann Le Guernigou; editing by Philippa Fletcher)
France says arms sale to Pakistan held up | Reuters
French Pakistan spat: GDF Suez deal held for JF-17 plane parts
Posted on15 April 2010. Tags: Augusta Subs, France, GDF Suez, German 214 Subs, JF-17 Thunder parts, Pakistan
http://www.dailymailpost.com/?p=96
Pakistani JF-17 parts: What’s behind ornery French skulduggery
There are rumors and media reports that Pakistan has retaliated against France for delaying the signing of the parts for the JF-17 thunders. A couple of weeks ago France under pressure from Bharat delayed or canceled the transfer of parts for the Pakistani redesigned JF-17 Thunders.
The Pakistan government has delayed an energy deal, due to be signed on April 15, with French company GDF Suez. The Pakistani Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources in February awarded a contract worth up to US$25 billion to GDF Suez to import 3.75 million tonnes per annum of liquefied natural gas (LNG) for up to 20 years. The LNG from Qatar was to be imported at a price of $1.8 billion in the first six years.
The French leader President Sarkozy is scheduled to visit Pakistan to sort out the matter of the further sales of the Augusta Submarines. The Pakistan Navy wanted to buy the 214 German Subs. However a tangled web of mystery ended up with Pakistan seeking the French subs.
Now that deal may also be in jeopardy. Unless President Sarkozy plans a quid pro quo, both the Submarine and gas contracts will go to German and Chinese companies.
Nice! N’est pas?
There is a disjunction between private and public French posturing. Islamabad is used to French double-dealing, duplicity, and equivocation. In the 80s France backed out a Nuclear Reprocessing plant deal with Pakistan–under US pressure. Pakistanis totally get it. They know French polysyllabic profundity to the core. This last sleight-of-hand scurvy trick is typical of France’s subterfuge and deceitful fakement. The French turpitude on putting a $1.6 billion deal for Pakistan “on hold” was seen for what it was— silly surreptitious trickery by Sarkozy and gang to secure the lucrative Bharati (aka Indian) deal first and put then pressure on Pakistan to force Islamabad to buy the Scorpians/Augustas rather than the German 214 Submarines.
Now Pakistan has raised the stakes.
If Mr. Sarkozy wants to lose the $20 billion Suez deal, he can continue to pander to Delhi.
In 2008 Pakistan Navy under chief of naval staff Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir made efforts for including German 214 Class submarines in its fleet and owing to Navy’s persistent efforts, the government had approved plans for acquisition of these submarines to be built at Karachi Shipyard under transfer of technology programme.
The details were later worked out between the two countries when a Pakistan Navy delegation visited Germany in April.
However recently quoting Pakistani government sources, the Financial Times Deutschland says President Asif Zardari may overrule his military’s preference for the German subs to take up a “better offer” from France.
If Mr. Sarkozy does not play ball and ships the JF-17 Thunder parts ”tout de suite”, France will lose a major deal with Pakistan.
Want to play hard Ball? Bein Sur!
How about them apples Sarkozy? Vour comprenez?
A parte técnica esta concluída, deu Rafale e Typhoon… a “Jaca verdadeira” foi embora por deficiências no radar!!! Mas não era o ponto forte dele???Danielo escreveu:India , Rafale eo Eurofighter estão conduzindo
http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4351234.cms
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Comigo não! O affair envolvendo França, Paquistão e o JF-17 é recente, deste ano. Nunca o vi neste fórum. E faz tempo que não debatemos.soultrain escreveu:Pepê, não adianta, já debati esses assunto com o santiago pelo menos três vezes, ele tem uma memória muito selectiva.
Santiago escreveu:Comigo não! A affair envolvendo França, Paquistão e o JF-17 é recente, deste ano. Nunca o vi neste fórum. E faz tempo que não debatemos.soultrain escreveu:Pepê, não adianta, já debati esses assunto com o santiago pelo menos três vezes, ele tem uma memória muito selectiva.
Creio que Pepê não precisa de "assessores" aqui no DB. Se você quer participar do debate, muito bem.
Isso já foi falado aqui várias vezes. Da BBC, 2009:Pepê Rezende escreveu:O comandante da Força Aérea que assinou o contrato com a BAe, que foi quem negociou o pacote, e parte da comissão avaliadora. O processo corre em Pretória e ainda está em investigação.Santiago escreveu: Como está o processo? Quem está sendo acusado e onde ocorre?
[]s
Abraços
Pepê
Page last updated at 14:33 GMT, Thursday, 1 October 2009 15:33 UK
Murky path of BAE's South Africa deal
The allegations against British firm BAE Systems are mounting up - slush funds, bribery and exploitation in several countries.
In South Africa, the firm was one of the suppliers in a hugely controversial upgrade of the country's armed forces.
Other elements of the deal have already spawned prosecutions, jail sentences and corruption allegations going to the very top of South African society - President Jacob Zuma.
THE ARMS DEAL
BAE's Hawk fighters made up a large chunk of the arms deal
In 1999, the South African government announced its largest-ever post-apartheid arms deal, signing contracts totalling 30bn rand ($4bn; £2.5bn at current exchange rates) to modernise its defence forces.
As well as BAE, the deal also involved companies from Germany, Italy, Sweden, France and South Africa.
Before any allegations of corruption were made, the spending of billions of dollars on new fighter jets, helicopters, submarines and warships was controversial in a country where millions live in poverty.
Critics also pointed out that there was no credible threat to South Africa's sovereignty to justify the spending.
BAE AND SOUTH AFRICA
Allegations of BAE slush funds for entertaining Saudi princes have been well documented, but so far investigators have released little information about the South African allegations.
Media reports in 2007 and 2008 suggested BAE had set up a £100m fund to bribe South African politicians.
South Africa's Mail and Guardian newspaper accused the firm of developing "a web of influence" to push through the deal.
It is claimed that the bribes were used to persuade Pretoria to take the British Hawk fighter jets rather than a much cheaper Italian alternative.
Although no South Africans have faced charges over links with BAE, intermediaries have been prosecuted over other parts of the deal.
SCHABIR SHAIK CONVICTED
Jacob Zuma, the current president of South Africa, was sacked as deputy president in 2005 after his financial adviser, Schabir Shaik, was convicted of fraud and corruption.
Shaik was found guilty of trying to solicit a bribe from Thint, the local subsidiary of French arms company Thales, on behalf of Mr Zuma.
The prosecution alleged Mr Zuma had agreed to shield the firm from an investigation linked to the 1999 deal in exchange for the bribe. Shaik said the money was a donation to the Jacob Zuma Education Fund.
Shaik was given a 15-year sentence and was ordered to pay $5.5m of his assets to the state.
He was freed earlier this year on medical grounds after spending less than three years in jail.
ZUMA CHARGES DROPPED
In 2006, Mr Zuma went on trial for corruption based on the Thint allegations.
But the case collapsed after the prosecution said it was not ready to proceed - even though more than a year had elapsed since he was charged.
In April 2009 prosecutors announced they would not pursue charges against Mr Zuma, concluding that there had been political manipulation in the investigation.
His supporters had always maintained that he had been the victim of a political smear campaign.
TONY YENGENI CONVICTED
Tony Yengeni was the chairman of parliament's defence committee at the time the government negotiated the arms deal, and he was convicted of fraud in 2003.
He had received a large discount on the purchase of a luxury car from one of the firms bidding for the contract.
He then lied to parliament about the benefit.
He was initially given a four-year sentence but had it reduced on appeal and further reduced by a general amnesty.
He was released in January 2007 after serving five months in jail.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 285406.stm
Published: 2009/10/01 14:33:54 GMT
© BBC MMX
O comandante da Força Aérea que assinou o contrato com a BAe, que foi quem negociou o pacote, e parte da comissão avaliadora. O processo corre em Pretória e ainda está em investigação.Santiago escreveu: Como está o processo? Quem está sendo acusado e onde ocorre?
[]s
Foi venda casada: Gripen+Hawk. Há suspeitas sobre as DUAS escolhas... Como é na África do Sul, deve acabar em pizza.Santiago escreveu:Da BBC, 2009:
Page last updated at 14:33 GMT, Thursday, 1 October 2009 15:33 UK
Murky path of BAE's South Africa deal
The allegations against British firm BAE Systems are mounting up - slush funds, bribery and exploitation in several countries.
In South Africa, the firm was one of the suppliers in a hugely controversial upgrade of the country's armed forces.
Other elements of the deal have already spawned prosecutions, jail sentences and corruption allegations going to the very top of South African society - President Jacob Zuma.
THE ARMS DEAL
BAE's Hawk fighters made up a large chunk of the arms deal
In 1999, the South African government announced its largest-ever post-apartheid arms deal, signing contracts totalling 30bn rand ($4bn; £2.5bn at current exchange rates) to modernise its defence forces.
As well as BAE, the deal also involved companies from Germany, Italy, Sweden, France and South Africa.
Before any allegations of corruption were made, the spending of billions of dollars on new fighter jets, helicopters, submarines and warships was controversial in a country where millions live in poverty.
Critics also pointed out that there was no credible threat to South Africa's sovereignty to justify the spending.
BAE AND SOUTH AFRICA
Allegations of BAE slush funds for entertaining Saudi princes have been well documented, but so far investigators have released little information about the South African allegations.
Media reports in 2007 and 2008 suggested BAE had set up a £100m fund to bribe South African politicians.
South Africa's Mail and Guardian newspaper accused the firm of developing "a web of influence" to push through the deal.
It is claimed that the bribes were used to persuade Pretoria to take the British Hawk fighter jets rather than a much cheaper Italian alternative.
Although no South Africans have faced charges over links with BAE, intermediaries have been prosecuted over other parts of the deal.
SCHABIR SHAIK CONVICTED
Jacob Zuma, the current president of South Africa, was sacked as deputy president in 2005 after his financial adviser, Schabir Shaik, was convicted of fraud and corruption.
Shaik was found guilty of trying to solicit a bribe from Thint, the local subsidiary of French arms company Thales, on behalf of Mr Zuma.
The prosecution alleged Mr Zuma had agreed to shield the firm from an investigation linked to the 1999 deal in exchange for the bribe. Shaik said the money was a donation to the Jacob Zuma Education Fund.
Shaik was given a 15-year sentence and was ordered to pay $5.5m of his assets to the state.
He was freed earlier this year on medical grounds after spending less than three years in jail.
ZUMA CHARGES DROPPED
In 2006, Mr Zuma went on trial for corruption based on the Thint allegations.
But the case collapsed after the prosecution said it was not ready to proceed - even though more than a year had elapsed since he was charged.
In April 2009 prosecutors announced they would not pursue charges against Mr Zuma, concluding that there had been political manipulation in the investigation.
His supporters had always maintained that he had been the victim of a political smear campaign.
TONY YENGENI CONVICTED
Tony Yengeni was the chairman of parliament's defence committee at the time the government negotiated the arms deal, and he was convicted of fraud in 2003.
He had received a large discount on the purchase of a luxury car from one of the firms bidding for the contract.
He then lied to parliament about the benefit.
He was initially given a four-year sentence but had it reduced on appeal and further reduced by a general amnesty.
He was released in January 2007 after serving five months in jail.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/a ... 285406.stm
Published: 2009/10/01 14:33:54 GMT
© BBC MMX
