MMRCA - FX Indiano

[soultrain]

Já agora o favorito agora é o Eurofighter. Vamos ver se agora vai

[Penguin]

Quanto aos slides do tal brigadeiro, a desculpa de alguns Brasileiros, é que vocês foram incompetentes, pediram os equipamentos errados e por ai vai, já li isso aqui neste forum. É triste mas é verdade... Desculpar erros de outros com incompetência de compatriotas...

[[]]'s

O problema não é por ai não. Só os ingênuos crêem que as barreiras a transferência de tecnologias se restringem apenas aos EUA, ainda mais na área espacial e de mísseis. Os EUA sempre foram muito restritivos. Isso não é segredo. Assim como também são os europeus.
Se não fosse dessa forma, as soluções para os problemas apontados pelo brigadeiro teriam sido resolvidos com a ajuda de nossos amigos europeus. Porém a realidade não tem sido assim. Tivemos que recorrer a parceiros menos convencionais, África do Sul, Israel e Rússia (5 INS) para obter certas capacidades.
Outra coisa que muitos deduzem dos slides são quebras de contratos. Realmente eu não me recordo de ter lido sobre quebra de contratos. Embargos, bloqueios e Lembro de dificuldades como no caso dos INS. Mas isso foi resolvido em esfera diplomática, não?

O que vc aponta, se aplica exatamente aos defensores da Snecma no caso do Mirage III e do Super Puma e da Giat DEFA 554 no caso do AMX.

[]s

[Carlos Mathias]

Leitura seletiva prá mim é novidade.

E USAntiago, 5 INS apenas não, tem mais coisa, inclusive estão aqui ajudando até hoje.

Pagar por um serviço e ter seu material apreendido é o que, se não for quebra de contrato?
Pagar por um equipamento nota 10 e receber um nota 5 é o que então?

E quer dizer que se resolver na esfera diplomática (não resolveu puerra nenhuma na verdade) pode ser, né?
Quer dizer, atrasamos nosso programas décadas a fio, mas não tem problema, desde que recebamos os espelhinhos quebrados.

É, realmente eu tenho uma visão completamente errada dessa situação.

[Penguin]

Leitura seletiva prá mim é novidade.

E USAntiago, 5 INS apenas não, tem mais coisa, inclusive estão aqui ajudando até hoje.

Pagar por um serviço e ter seu material apreendido é o que, se não for quebra de contrato?
Pagar por um equipamento nota 10 e receber um nota 5 é o que então?

E quer dizer que se resolver na esfera diplomática (não resolveu puerra nenhuma na verdade) pode ser, né?
Quer dizer, atrasamos nosso programas décadas a fio, mas não tem problema, desde que recebamos os espelhinhos quebrados.

É, realmente eu tenho uma visão completamente dessa situação.

Atrasamos por que investimos muito pouco. Muito menos do que qualquer um dos (B)RIC.

[Carlos Mathias]

Essa você merece:

Ahã...Ahã...

[soultrain]

Boeing, Lockheed Wait as India Delays Fighter Deal (Update1)
April 27, 2010, 12:12 AM EDT
More From Businessweek


(Adds crashes of Indian MiGs in 10th paragraph.)

By James Rupert

April 27 (Bloomberg) -- India will miss a deadline tomorrow to complete the world’s biggest fighter-jet purchase in 15 years, risking a possible $1 billion price increase as Boeing Co. and five rival manufacturers resubmit bids.

India’s Air Force is still conducting flight trials for competing jets from Boeing, Lockheed Martin Corp. and four European companies, two years after accepting price quotes for 126 warplanes that the government said should cost about $10 billion. The bids expire April 28 and the Defense Ministry has asked manufacturers to submit offers for an additional year, its spokesman, Sitanshu Kar, said in a phone interview in New Delhi.

“The companies have been informed by the government that they can extend their bid for one more year,” Kar said. “They have the option of increasing or decreasing their price.”

The delay in buying what India describes as “multi-role combat aircraft” may raise the government’s eventual cost, said Mrinal Suman, a retired Indian army major general and arms procurement analyst. “By the recent track record, the cost of these aircraft generally goes up by 7 percent to 10 percent each year,” Suman said in a phone interview.

India’s failure to choose a plane within the planned two years “highlights that this is by far the biggest, most complex arms purchase India has ever undertaken,” said Suman, who monitors weapons procurement for the Confederation of Indian Industry.

‘Past Scandals’

Political considerations have slowed decision-making by Defense Minister A.K. Antony, said Rahul Roy-Chaudhury, senior fellow for South Asia at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

“Antony has been trying to assure a squeaky clean deal to avoid any possible allegation of corruption, because of past scandals” that helped drive the ruling Congress Party to defeat in 1989 elections, Roy-Chaudhury said. Those scandals erupted over allegations that Indian officials took bribes in the purchase of Swedish artillery and German submarines.

Since the 1980s, no Indian government has made an open-bid arms purchase valued at as much as $100 million, or 1 percent of the fighter deal’s size, Roy-Chaudhury, Suman and other analysts say.

While the delay amid rising prices is likely to raise India’s cost, competitive pressures or exchange rate fluctuations may also counter such increases, Suman said.

India is buying the fighters as it has been phasing out Russian-built MiG jets, some of which date back to the 1970s. Twenty-one air force MiGs have crashed in the past three years, Antony said yesterday in a statement submitted in Parliament.

Himalaya Tests

The Indian air force has conducted flight trials for the six competing aircraft from a high-altitude airfield near Leh in the Himalayas, a desert base in Rajasthan state and in the tropical climate of Bangalore, Kar said. “The trials will be over shortly, maybe by the end of May,” he added.

The air force “will provide the government with two or three options that meet the technical needs, and then it will be up to the political decision makers,” Roy-Chaudhury said. Chicago-based Boeing, maker of the F/A-18 Super Hornet, and Lockheed-Martin, based in Bethesda, Maryland, which builds the F-16 fighter, may benefit from a desire by India to cement strategic ties to the United States, he said.

Lockheed-Martin “plans to update our commercial bid to ensure the best possible value to India,” company spokesman John Giese said in an e-mail. Boeing is “working to provide a compliant response” to India’s request that it extend its bid, spokesman Brian Nelson wrote in an e-mail.

Sweden’s Saab AB will make no change in its bid to sell the Gripen fighter, said Eddy de la Motte, who heads the company’s campaign in India. The other contenders -- Paris-based Dassault Aviation SA, Moscow-based United Aircraft Corp., and the European Aeronautic, Defense & Space Co., which has headquarters in Paris and Munich -- did not comment on their plans.

--With assistance from Gopal Ratnam in Washington. Editors: Bill Austin, Mark Williams

To contact the reporter on this story: James Rupert in New Delhi at jrupert3@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Bill Austin at billaustin@bloomberg.net

[Penguin]

WEDNESDAY, MAY 19, 2010
FLASH! Gripen Demo Clears Leh Trials!
The Gripen Demo aircraft, which landed at Air Force Station Jamnagar, Gujarat on Monday, cleared its high altitude trials in Leh today. Air Force sources confirmed to LiveFist that the aircraft went through the full routine of tests that the Gripen-D did earlier this year. IAF pilots already got a chance to fly the Gripen Demo in the first week of April at Linkoping, Sweden, but calling the Demo airplane to India was necessary to complete all the demands in the field evaluation test (FET) plan.

FRIDAY, MARCH 26, 2010
Four MMRCA Contenders Fail Leh Trials!
It's the latest tidbit on India's $12-billion Medium Multirole Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) competition that's doing the rounds (and it was first reported by The Hindu on Tuesday). Four of the contenders that underwent cold-weather evaluation trials at Leh didn't meet performance requirements. OK, major understatement. Four of the contenders bit dust in Leh. Read that again: four aircraft. That's huge. It's still unclear which part of the Leh test the four aircraft types failed at, though it is quite clear that it was either the switch off/on after landing, or the take-off with meaningful combat load at that altitude. The only thing that appears true is that four aircraft failed the trial -- it is totally anyone's guess which these are. Any want to hazard a try?

http://livefist.blogspot.com/

[Junker]

Political pressure will determine MMRCA outcome: Eurofighter CEO
10 June 2010


Eurofighter CEO Enzo Casolini

Berlin: Political ties will play a very big role in determining the outcome of the $11 billion Indian Air Force medium range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) tender, according to Enzo Casolini, chief executive officer of Eurofighter Jagdflugzeug GmbH. The Eurofighter is one of the contestants for the global tender which has five other defence and aerospace companies in the fray.

The order envisages 18 four++ generation fighters being supplied by the contractor winning the bid and atleast 108 being produced under license in India. The aircraft are intended to phase out the IAF's ageing fleet of MiG series fighters as well as build up aerospace and industrial capability.

Speaking at a media briefing at the ILA Berlin Air Show 2010 on Tuesday, Casolini said, ''The situation is very clear. In order to sell fighter aircraft, apart from the capability [of the aircraft], one of the most important things is the political support and relationship with the [customer] nation...These are strategic issues.''

In this regard, Casolini pointed out, the Eurofighter was pitted against the USA. ''When we talk about competitors, Americans are the biggest, because we believe American political support is strong [in India]. Everybody knows that.''

In the MMRCA bid, two US firms are in the running with Boeing fielding its F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin Corp's its F-16IN.

Other aerospace companies competing are Dassault Aviation SA with its Rafale fighter, the Russian MiG RAC with its MiG-35 offering and the Swedish Saab AB with its Gripen NG.

Complaining of queered pitch, Casolini however conceded that India provided more of a level playing field than other nations like Japan, who were very clear about ''relationships'' when it came to placing defence orders.

Casolini pointed out that another factor in play was India's offset policy, which requires bidders to make industrial and technology transfers.

''India is different, because it will choose from various bidders. Even though the key issue is political ties, factors such as industrial offer and technology transfer are important,'' he said.

Casolini has only recently taken control of the Eurofighter consortium as CEO on 30 April replacing past CEO Aloysius Rauen.

http://www.domain-b.com/defence/general ... eView.html

[Junker]

Eurofighter Snipes Lockheed, Says Typhoon More 5th-Gen Than F-35, Latter Not Even A Fighter!


The Eurofighter Typhoon is much more of a 5th-Generation fighter than the Lockheed-Martin F-35 Lightning-II. That's the refrain of an article in the latest edition of Eurofighter's magazine Eurofighter World. Suggesting that the "generation sequence and headings used by Lockheed-Martin for fighters are generally shared by the defence community", the piece goes on to point out that "these classifications are truly too rigid and schematic to have any credibility, in the sense that a fighter such as the Eurofighter Typhoon exhibits all the qualities of a 5th generation fighter with the exception of full spectrum stealthiness (VLO) but is well above the legacy 4th generation platforms in all other measures of performance." Eurofighter says the US "uses and sometimes abuses" the generations issue.

"If we take the key attributes defining a 5th generation fighter the JSF satisfies only a few of them. Scoring the Eurofighter Typhoon against the same “admission criteria” as the 5th generation club, would produce a much higher compliance than JSF, for example, as the only missing part would be the VLO stealthiness," the article states, with a table depicting this compliance.



Here's the rest:

*
So, if the F-35/JSF is not a 5th generation fighter, what is it then? Where does it belong? That is a very important question and needs a definition before it can be answered properly.

A fighter is a combat aircraft whose aerodynamic characteristics, sensor suite and weapon capabilities are optimised to achieve the control of the air. Fighters actively look for and engage the opponent's fighter force. Strike aircraft generally avoid engagements with other fighters. The fighter generations concept obviously applies and is restricted to fighters. It cannot apply to bombers, strike and attack aircraft, even if sometimes these are inaccurately termed as fighters. Where does the good old A-4 Skyhawk or the Close Air Support A-10 belong in terms of fighter generations? Where does the F-117 fit? Certainly not in the fighter generation classes. The same is true also for the F-35/JSF.

So, the inclusion of a tactical strike and attack platform in the fighter generation concept is a mistake. Simply put, the JSF is not a fighter and the two classes are not comparable. The process of designing a combat aircraft will inevitably result in a number of trade-offs. Any fighter is a compromise between aircraft manoeuvrability; high specific excess power; weapon effectiveness; highoff bore sight; IR/RF missiles; gun; combat persistence; high fuel fraction; maximum firepower; aircraft systems/sensors; human machine interface; situational understanding; helmet mounted displays; threat warning; countermeasures; good cockpit visibility.

Survivability can beachieved by means other than Low Observability. For example thanks to layered information systems; mission definable preferences;automation of routine tasks; threat prioritisation; sensor fusion and inherent safety, you are able to avoid compromising the performance and flight characteristics of the aircraft and create a weapon system that does not suffer from the same inflexibility issues that the F-35 JSF appears to have. During the first Desert Storm attack against Iraq on the 17th January 1991, only 10 stealth aircraft from a total of 658 non stealth attack aircraft successfully hit targets in Iraq and Kuwait. That night there were no losses at all. So what is the lesson learnt? Clearly if you can hide an F-117, the primary stealth bomber of that time... you can also hide a B-52! However, if any air force is going to choose just one platform, they have to make sure it is fit for purpose. The main considerations should be: forget the generation labels and instead consider requirements & capabilities. Overall, military capability must meet a nation’s needs. If you cannot have the F-22, you need something of similar air-to-aircapability to support your attack aircraft at the same time. Survivability can be achieved by means other than stealthiness. A single platform designed only for strike missions is unlikely to satisfy all combat air power requirements. Today the Typhoon is the only aircraft capable of evolving ahead of the threat and in step with maturing technology.

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2010/06/eu ... -says.html

[Penguin]

Os investimentos estão a toda na Índia: Tejas, MMRCA, PAK e AMCA:

SATURDAY, JUNE 26, 2010

The Stealth In India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)
http://livefist.blogspot.com/










The official CAD images above, from the Advanced Projects & Technologies (AP&T) directorate of India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) provide further perspective on the low-observable design elements that are known to be going into India's Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), known for a while now to be a stealth aircraft concept. Serpentine air intakes (with minimum flow distortion and robust pressure recovery) and internal weapons bays, depicted in the images above, are some of the most critical nose-on low observability design elements going into the programme.

As part of the multidisciplinary design optimization (MDO) currently on for the AMCA -- a wind tunnel model of which was first publicly displayed at AeroIndia 2009 -- that design-based stealth features will include further optimized airframe shaping, edge matching, body conforming antennae and a low IR signature through nozzle design, engine bay cooling and work on reduced exhaust temperature. RAMs, RAPs, special coatings for polycarbonate canopy and precision manufacturing will all be part of the effort to make the AMCA India's first stealth airplane.

With aerodynamic design optimisation near complete, the AMCA's broad specifications are final. The aicraft will have a weight of 16-18 tons [16-18 tons with 2-tons of internal weapons and 4-tons of internal fuel with a combat ceiling of 15-km, max speed of 1.8-Mach at 11-km. The AMCA will be powered by 2 x 90KN engines with vectored nozzles. For the record, the official ADA document that will finally be processed this year by the government towards formal project launch describes the AMCA as a "multirole combat aircraft for air superiority, point air defence, deep penetration/strike, special missions".

[Carlos Mathias]

Outro programa de 5ºG interessante prá nos informarmos sobre uma participação.
Se não me engano, o programa vai incluir a Rússia, que creio vai querer um caça médio também.

[Archer]

Hi everyone,

Dont know whether you picked up the recent upgrade deal around the IAF's first 50 Su-30 MKIs. These include new upgraded radars, and all sorts of improvements to the avionics including Electronic Warfare.
The IAF is having a good time now, with equipment flowing in to meet its diverse needs


Olá a todos,

Não sei se você pegou o negócio atualização recente em torno do primeiro IAF de 50 Su-30 MKIs. Estes incluem novos radares atualizado, e todos os tipos de melhorias para os aviônicos, incluindo Electronic Warfare.
A IAF está tendo um bom momento, com equipamentos que flui para atender às suas necessidades diversificadas

[EDSON]

A IAF é uma poderosa Força Aérea. Talvez mais preparada do que a Força Aérea chinesa.

[Carlos Mathias]

Dont know whether you picked up the recent upgrade deal around the IAF's first 50 Su-30 MKIs. These include new upgraded radars, and all sorts of improvements to the avionics including Electronic Warfare.
The IAF is having a good time now, with equipment flowing in to meet its diverse needs

Yes, we got this information!
And as far as I know, the upgrade will use SU-35BM/PAK tecnology. It'll be a great improvement on yours Su-30MKI capabilities.

[Archer]

Thanks Carlos and Edson.

Yes, the new Flanker H upgrade, called "Super-30" by the IAF, is expected to use a mix of Su-35, Indian and technology from other countries as well, for its update. The heart of the upgrade will come from Russia, namely radar and new munitions. India may contribute new MFD, and new EW suite with integrated jammers.

Obrigado Carlos e Edson.

Sim, o novo upgrade Flanker H, chamado de "Super 30" IAF deve usar uma mistura de Su-35, da Índia e de outros países para a atualização. O coração da atualização virá da Rússia, por exemplo, radares e munição nova. Índia pode contribuir MFD e equipamentos de guerra eletrônica com jammers.