F-35 News
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Re: F-35 News
Gates Calls for Delay in Pentagon Purchases of Lockheed F-35s (excerpt)
(Source: Bloomberg; published Jan. 7, 2010)
Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered a delay in the Lockheed Martin Corp. F-35 program, cutting the Pentagon’s planned purchases by 10 aircraft in fiscal 2011 and a total of 122 through 2015, according to a budget document.
More than $2.8 billion that was budgeted earlier to buy the military’s next-generation fighter would instead be used to continue its development.
The delay is a setback for both Gates and Lockheed.
The defense secretary said last year he wanted to accelerate jet purchases to complete the military’s most expensive weapons program sooner and possibly save money.
For Lockheed, the world’s largest defense contractor, accelerated purchases would be more profitable because a program’s production phase brings in more revenue than research and development. In addition, the Bethesda, Maryland-based company faces negotiations that may require it to absorb a share of cost overruns during what will likely be an extended development phase. The company now absorbs no overrun costs.
Along with the delay in Lockheed’s program, Gates is calling for spending a total of $2.4 billion in 2011 and 2012 to buy 26 F/A-18E/F planes that are capable of jamming enemy radar. Those aircraft are produced by Boeing Co., the second-largest defense contractor.
Navy officials had said previously that if the F-35 program slipped, they would press for more F-18s to mitigate a “fighter gap” caused by their aging, carrier-based jets.
Cuts Itemized
Gates’s order is in an unreleased document he signed Dec. 23 that is the basis for the new defense budget to be released Feb. 1. The document was widely distributed within the Pentagon.
He directed the shift from the procurement budget to development of $320 million in fiscal 2011; $544 million in 2012; $716 million in fiscal 2013; $872 million in fiscal 2014 and $356 million in 2015, according to the document.
Click here for the full article, on the Bloomberg website.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 6UwiltYSBU
-ends-
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... pment.html
(Source: Bloomberg; published Jan. 7, 2010)
Defense Secretary Robert Gates has ordered a delay in the Lockheed Martin Corp. F-35 program, cutting the Pentagon’s planned purchases by 10 aircraft in fiscal 2011 and a total of 122 through 2015, according to a budget document.
More than $2.8 billion that was budgeted earlier to buy the military’s next-generation fighter would instead be used to continue its development.
The delay is a setback for both Gates and Lockheed.
The defense secretary said last year he wanted to accelerate jet purchases to complete the military’s most expensive weapons program sooner and possibly save money.
For Lockheed, the world’s largest defense contractor, accelerated purchases would be more profitable because a program’s production phase brings in more revenue than research and development. In addition, the Bethesda, Maryland-based company faces negotiations that may require it to absorb a share of cost overruns during what will likely be an extended development phase. The company now absorbs no overrun costs.
Along with the delay in Lockheed’s program, Gates is calling for spending a total of $2.4 billion in 2011 and 2012 to buy 26 F/A-18E/F planes that are capable of jamming enemy radar. Those aircraft are produced by Boeing Co., the second-largest defense contractor.
Navy officials had said previously that if the F-35 program slipped, they would press for more F-18s to mitigate a “fighter gap” caused by their aging, carrier-based jets.
Cuts Itemized
Gates’s order is in an unreleased document he signed Dec. 23 that is the basis for the new defense budget to be released Feb. 1. The document was widely distributed within the Pentagon.
He directed the shift from the procurement budget to development of $320 million in fiscal 2011; $544 million in 2012; $716 million in fiscal 2013; $872 million in fiscal 2014 and $356 million in 2015, according to the document.
Click here for the full article, on the Bloomberg website.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... 6UwiltYSBU
-ends-
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... pment.html
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Re: F-35 News
MoD to Slash Jet Fighter Orders as it Struggles to Save Aircraft Programme (excerpt)
(Source: The Guardian; issued January 12, 2010)
Defence chiefs are preparing drastic cuts to the number of American [F-35 JSF] stealth aircraft planned for the RAF and the Royal Navy's proposed new carriers, the Guardian has learned.
They will be among the first casualties, with existing squadrons of Harrier and Tornado jets, of a huge shift in military spending being considered by ministers, officials and military advisers.
As they head towards their biggest and most painful shakeup since the Second World War, a consensus has emerged among the top brass that they cannot afford the 140 American Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) they have been seeking.
The JSF, or F35 as it is now called, has been subject to costly delays and the estimated price has soared from £37m each four years ago to more than £62m today.
One compromise would be for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to halve its order from 140 planes to 70.
There is also a growing view that Britain will not be able to afford to build the two large aircraft carriers, already delayed, let alone the planes due to fly from them. "The carriers are under real threat. There will certainly be a big reduction in JSF numbers," a well-placed military source told the Guardian.
"The carriers are about more fast jets. They are very hard to justify," added a defence official, referring to a growing consensus that the RAF already has too many fast jets.
If the order was halved, it would probably be split so that there was a short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) version for the carriers, and a conventional version based at RAF ground stations.
Among other options being considered are: downsizing the second carrier to a much cheaper platform for helicopters, marine commandos, and unmanned drones; building both carriers but selling one, perhaps to India; and equipping them with cheaper catapult-launched aircraft.
No decisions will be made until after the general election. However, there is a consensus developing in the MoD that Britain simply cannot afford existing plans to build two large carriers in a project which, if the JSF planes are included, would cost an estimated £25bn. (end of excerpt)
Click here for the full article, on the Guardian website. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/1 ... ers-budget
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http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... -cuts.html
(Source: The Guardian; issued January 12, 2010)
Defence chiefs are preparing drastic cuts to the number of American [F-35 JSF] stealth aircraft planned for the RAF and the Royal Navy's proposed new carriers, the Guardian has learned.
They will be among the first casualties, with existing squadrons of Harrier and Tornado jets, of a huge shift in military spending being considered by ministers, officials and military advisers.
As they head towards their biggest and most painful shakeup since the Second World War, a consensus has emerged among the top brass that they cannot afford the 140 American Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) they have been seeking.
The JSF, or F35 as it is now called, has been subject to costly delays and the estimated price has soared from £37m each four years ago to more than £62m today.
One compromise would be for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to halve its order from 140 planes to 70.
There is also a growing view that Britain will not be able to afford to build the two large aircraft carriers, already delayed, let alone the planes due to fly from them. "The carriers are under real threat. There will certainly be a big reduction in JSF numbers," a well-placed military source told the Guardian.
"The carriers are about more fast jets. They are very hard to justify," added a defence official, referring to a growing consensus that the RAF already has too many fast jets.
If the order was halved, it would probably be split so that there was a short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) version for the carriers, and a conventional version based at RAF ground stations.
Among other options being considered are: downsizing the second carrier to a much cheaper platform for helicopters, marine commandos, and unmanned drones; building both carriers but selling one, perhaps to India; and equipping them with cheaper catapult-launched aircraft.
No decisions will be made until after the general election. However, there is a consensus developing in the MoD that Britain simply cannot afford existing plans to build two large carriers in a project which, if the JSF planes are included, would cost an estimated £25bn. (end of excerpt)
Click here for the full article, on the Guardian website. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/1 ... ers-budget
-ends-
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... -cuts.html
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Re: F-35 News
USN officials raise concern about F-35 affordability
The US Naval Air Systems Command's top cost estimator has warned in a new internal briefing obtained by Flight International that the Lockheed Martin F-35B/C variants are getting harder to afford.
Lockheed continues to insist, however, that cost estimates within the programme have not changed since 2007, which it says is supported by its recent contractual performance.
But the NAVAIR briefing, presented to US Navy officials on 4 January, adds fuel to a series of recent reports that the Department of Defense is taking a more conservative approach to estimating the F-35's overall costs, with potential production unit cuts likely in the fiscal year 2011 budget request scheduled for release in February.
According to NAVAIR's cost department, the F-35's total ownership costs, including development, production and sustainment, has doubled to $704 billion since Lockheed won the contract eight years ago.
Moreover, NAVAIR estimates the total of 680 short take-off and vertical landing F-35Bs and carrier-variant F-35Cs, ordered by the US Marine Corps and USN, respectively, will cost $30,700 to fly each hour. This compares to $18,900 for the Boeing AV-8B Harrier II and Boeing F/A-18A-D, the aircraft types the Joint Strike Fighter will replace.
Although NAVAIR projects the F-35 will fly 12% fewer flight hours than the AV-8B and F/A-18A-D fleets, the agency expects the modern aircraft to cost as much as about 25% more to operate at peak rates, the briefing says.
The unexpected cost increases mean the F-35 "will have a significant impact on naval aviation affordability", the NAVAIR document concludes.
Dan Crowley, Lockheed executive vice-president for the F-35, says the presentation reflects an ongoing dispute between the programme and the Joint Estimating Team (JET). The NAVAIR presentation bases its cost assumptions on the latest JET study.
The programme uses a "bottom-up" approach to estimate costs, while the JET and NAVAIR estimates use a parametric model, Crowley says.
But the dispute is not a trivial matter. If the DoD decides to submit a budget request based on the JET's higher estimate, Lockheed's orders for production aircraft could decline. Such a reduction sets the stage for the so-called "acquisition death spiral", as fewer orders lead to higher unit production costs, which in turn cause further cuts.
But Crowley says that a production cut next year would not necessarily trigger a death spiral. Under Lockheed's interpretation of recent acquisition reform laws, the company could deliver more aircraft to the government than are put under contract.
The first test of this theory could arrive during negotiations for the fifth annual lot of low rate production. "The government will be monitoring our prices for LRIP-5," Crowley says.
Meanwhile, Lockheed will continue to develop its capacity planning based on the assumption that it will deliver one jet every working day by 2015 or 2016, says Crowley.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ility.html
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Re: F-35 News
"The government will be monitoring our prices for LRIP-5," Crowley says.
Eu precisei ler uma segunda vez porque tinha lido RIP-35
Eu precisei ler uma segunda vez porque tinha lido RIP-35
Re: F-35 News
Sabe o que mais me chamou a atenção neste grafico?
O custo de 18 mil dólares para o F/A-18...
É de se esperar então que assim como o rafale, a proposta da Boeing de 10 mil dólares, seja válida apenas para alguns anos...
Aonde estão as Ogivas Nucleares do Brasil???
- Carlos Lima
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Re: F-35 News
Gaitero,gaitero escreveu:Sabe o que mais me chamou a atenção neste grafico?
O custo de 18 mil dólares para o F/A-18...
É de se esperar então que assim como o rafale, a proposta da Boeing de 10 mil dólares, seja válida apenas para alguns anos...
Existe um erro, o custo é referente ao F-18/AV-8 (Harrier II) combinados!
[]s
CB_Lima
CB_Lima = Carlos Lima
Re: F-35 News
O que isto significa???cb_lima escreveu:Gaitero,gaitero escreveu: Sabe o que mais me chamou a atenção neste grafico?
O custo de 18 mil dólares para o F/A-18...
É de se esperar então que assim como o rafale, a proposta da Boeing de 10 mil dólares, seja válida apenas para alguns anos...
Existe um erro, o custo é referente ao F-18/AV-8 (Harrier II) combinados!
[]s
CB_Lima
Que os F/A-18 custarão 10 mil e os AV quase 30 para então dar a média???
Aonde estão as Ogivas Nucleares do Brasil???
Re: F-35 News
cb_lima escreveu:Gaitero,gaitero escreveu: Sabe o que mais me chamou a atenção neste grafico?
O custo de 18 mil dólares para o F/A-18...
É de se esperar então que assim como o rafale, a proposta da Boeing de 10 mil dólares, seja válida apenas para alguns anos...
Existe um erro, o custo é referente ao F-18/AV-8 (Harrier II) combinados!
[]s
CB_Lima
Por hora de vôo, e não custo operacional, e o dos 30 mil Dólares dos F-35? Depois falam que o Rafale é caro. E os dos atuais é quase 19 mil dólares, e nesse meio estão todos os F-18, além dos AV-8B. Acho que os F-18E não ficam por menos de 12/14 mil dólares.
[]´s
- Sterrius
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Re: F-35 News
Eu ando cantando que os numeros de vendas do F35 são insustentaveis a tempos!
Eu nao consigo imaginar este avião chegando as 1000 unidades. Caro D+ pra produzir e caro D+ pra manter, em um mundo que exige cada vez menos armas desse naipe.
Aviões Stealth são caros d+ pra ser a espinha dorsal de uma força aerea. Sâo otimos pra se ter como suporte e missões espinhosas. Mas não da pra querer fazer todo o tipo de missão com eles, mesmo quando existem opções mais baratas.
Como um deputado americano falou. "È como usar uma Ferrari pra deixar o filho na escola, você pode, mas e necessario?".
Eu nao consigo imaginar este avião chegando as 1000 unidades. Caro D+ pra produzir e caro D+ pra manter, em um mundo que exige cada vez menos armas desse naipe.
Aviões Stealth são caros d+ pra ser a espinha dorsal de uma força aerea. Sâo otimos pra se ter como suporte e missões espinhosas. Mas não da pra querer fazer todo o tipo de missão com eles, mesmo quando existem opções mais baratas.
Como um deputado americano falou. "È como usar uma Ferrari pra deixar o filho na escola, você pode, mas e necessario?".
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Re: F-35 News
PRick, leia novamente o alto da página... na boa... eu sei que você não aprecia os caras mas nessa você está equivocado.PRick escreveu: Por hora de vôo, e não custo operacional, e o dos 30 mil Dólares dos F-35? Depois falam que o Rafale é caro. E os dos atuais é quase 19 mil dólares, e nesse meio estão todos os F-18, além dos AV-8B. Acho que os F-18E não ficam por menos de 12/14 mil dólares.
[]´s
Na boa.
[]s
CB_Lima
CB_Lima = Carlos Lima
- Carlos Lima
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Re: F-35 News
Pois é...Sterrius escreveu:Eu ando cantando que os numeros de vendas do F35 são insustentaveis a tempos!
Eu nao consigo imaginar este avião chegando as 1000 unidades. Caro D+ pra produzir e caro D+ pra manter, em um mundo que exige cada vez menos armas desse naipe.
Aviões Stealth são caros d+ pra ser a espinha dorsal de uma força aerea. Sâo otimos pra se ter como suporte e missões espinhosas. Mas não da pra querer fazer todo o tipo de missão com eles, mesmo quando existem opções mais baratas.
Como um deputado americano falou. "È como usar uma Ferrari pra deixar o filho na escola, você pode, mas e necessario?".
Esse é o grande debate, porque em teoria a idéia era criar um Stealth "popular" o que baratearia os custos da aeronave em função da quantidade e o número de países envolvidos.
A grande questão é... isso vai ocorrer?
[]s
CB_Lima
CB_Lima = Carlos Lima
Re: F-35 News
cb_lima escreveu:PRick, leia novamente o alto da página... na boa... eu sei que você não aprecia os caras mas nessa você está equivocado.PRick escreveu: Por hora de vôo, e não custo operacional, e o dos 30 mil Dólares dos F-35? Depois falam que o Rafale é caro. E os dos atuais é quase 19 mil dólares, e nesse meio estão todos os F-18, além dos AV-8B. Acho que os F-18E não ficam por menos de 12/14 mil dólares.
[]´s
Na boa.
[]s
CB_Lima
Bem, o problema é que o gráfico menor diz outra coisa , eu não tenho nada haver com isso , tem um erro ali. Ainda assim, os custos são muito altos. Indicando mais uma vez que os F-18E não são mais baratos que os Rafales na operação. Nem vou falar de F-35, pelo jeito a FAB jamais operaria esse caça, quando reclama dos custos do Rafale. E agora? Pelo jeito jamais teremos caças de 5ª geração por aqui.
[]´s
- soultrain
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Re: F-35 News
CB, F/A-18, são mais de 600, AV-8 são apenas uns 90.cb_lima escreveu:PRick, leia novamente o alto da página... na boa... eu sei que você não aprecia os caras mas nessa você está equivocado.PRick escreveu: Por hora de vôo, e não custo operacional, e o dos 30 mil Dólares dos F-35? Depois falam que o Rafale é caro. E os dos atuais é quase 19 mil dólares, e nesse meio estão todos os F-18, além dos AV-8B. Acho que os F-18E não ficam por menos de 12/14 mil dólares.
[]´s
Na boa.
[]s
CB_Lima
[[]]'s
"O que se percebe hoje é que os idiotas perderam a modéstia. E nós temos de ter tolerância e compreensão também com os idiotas, que são exatamente aqueles que escrevem para o esquecimento"
NJ
Re: F-35 News
soultrain escreveu:
CB, F/A-18, são mais de 600, AV-8 são apenas uns 90.
[[]]'s
Exato...
Vamos recaptular, os colegas defensores do F/A-18 diziam que o Rafale teria seu preço de manutenção reduzido a 12/14 mil por alguns anos, e depois voltaria ao preço inicialmente oferecido...
Pois bem, como fica então o caso do SH, que terá o preço de 10 mil no Brasil, mas que tem um preço quase 2x maior nos EUA....
Aonde estão as Ogivas Nucleares do Brasil???