O caça J-10 seria um bom complemento para o vencedor do FX-2

[czarccc]

Pode chamar isso de preconceito mas nem f**endo gostaria de ver a fab voando porcarias chinesas.

Melhor rever seu pensamento. Nem tudo que China ou qualquer outro país do tipo no mundo faz é porcaria. 99% das coisas fabricadas que usamos hoje em dia tem marca americana/europeia, mas é fabricado na China, Taiwan, Cingapura, ou lugar da região. Sobre o tópico, acho que vai ser isso mesmo que o Vinicius falou, o FX sendo o complemento dele mesmo e talvez mais tarde um 5º geração.

Bolovo, a fábrica apenas executa o que se encontra no projeto. A maioria dos bons produtos provenientes da China não são são lá projetados. Só são lá fabricados porque em nenhum outro lugar a relação Empresa trabalhador é tão assimétrica e os custos de produção (salários) são tão baixos. Eu já caí na tentação ($$$) de comprar produtos verdadeiramente chineses (projetados por lá) como MP-Ns (N natural tendendo a infinito), brinquedos, eletrônicos em geral, e sempre me decepcionei. Muito. Me chinguei de burro. Muito. Não sei quantos aqui passaram pela frustação de comprar um MP-N qualquer e o botão Play quebrar com menos de um mês de uso. Daí você vai lá na "loja", tem uma dor de cabeça tremenda, com o vendedor te chamando de pilantra com os olhos, depois de muita encheção de saco troca o bendito MP-N e ele quebra de novo, com menos de um mês, aquela lágrima escorre, você f*de a unha do dedão do pé na primeira coisa sólida ao seu alcance e xinga meio mundo antes de se dar conta do ridículo de toda a situação. E a vida continua. Já tive várias experiências semelhantes (sim, eu sei, eu sou muito burro, acredite, ninguém me disse isso mais que eu mesmo), experiência essa que me permite dizer, na minha humilde opinião, que não se trata de preconceito, mas de um conceito muito bem formado, baseado em vasta comprovação empírica. E o meu medo é acabar caindo nessa de novo. Vem aquela história de que a China está se modernizando, isso é coisa do passado, esse produto é lançamento, tem n recursos e blá blá blá, seguindo-se do mais poderoso dos argumentos (pelo menos para esse pobre mortal), custa menos da metade daquele de grife, grife, aquela coisa que os porcos capitalistas se orgulham de exibir pelas ruas, pagam pelo impresso da grife e mais blá blá blá... Eu apostava cenzim contra eu mesmo...

Só reiterando senhores, não é o made in China que desqualifica, de maneira alguma, mas experimentem comprar algo de uma aclamada marca chamada Vaic, por exemplo, pessam por um que tenha escrito Nokia no lugar de Vaic, é um dos "opcionais"...

[cabeça de martelo]

Eu acho é que o governo Brasileiro deve escolher de uma vez por todas o FX-2.

[czarccc]

Pak to buy 36 Chinese J-10 fighters
Pakistan in Chinese fighter jet deal

By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad
Published: November 10 2009 08:16 | Last updated: November 10 2009 18:29

China has agreed to sell Pakistan at least 36 advanced fighter jets in a deal worth as much as $1.4bn, according to Pakistani and western officials.

Beijing will supply two squadrons of the J-10 fighter jet in a preliminary agreement that could lead to more sales, said a Pakistani official. The official said Pakistan might buy “larger numbers” of the multi-role aircraft in the future, but dismissed reports that Islamabad had signed a deal to purchase as many as 150 of the fighter jets.

Defence experts described the agreement with China as a landmark event in Pakistan’s defence relationship with the military power. China’s transition from a manufacturer of low-fighters to more advanced jets comparable to some western models is seen as evidence of Beijing’s increasing strategic clout in Asia.

“China is developing a real capacity to produce and export its arms. At one point, the Chinese were dependent on imported Russian technology, but obviously China has advanced significantly beyond those days,” said Marika Vicziany, Professor of Asian studies at Monash University in Melbourne.

“This agreement should not simply be seen in the narrow context of Pakistan’s relations with China,” said Abdul Qayyum, a retired Pakistani general.

“There is a wider dimension. By sharing its advanced technology with Pakistan, China is ... also saying to the world that its defence capability is growing rapidly.”

China has supplied Pakistan with fighter jets for more than three decades. But Beijing has seldom supplied Pakistan’s air force with advanced fighter aircraft. Islamabad turned to France for Mirage fighter jets in the 1970s and to the US for F-16s in the 1980s.

Pakistan has a fleet of 45 F-16s built by Lockheed Martin. The Pakistani air force is using the fighter jet in its campaign against militants in South Waziristan.

The US has agreed to sell Islamabad another 18 new F-16s and Pakistani officials also expected the US to supply about a dozen older versions of the aircraft.

Over the past decade, China and Pakistan have collaborated on building their first jointly produced advanced fighter jet, known as the JF-17, or “Thunder”. Pakistan is expected to roll out the first domestically built version of the Thunder within weeks.

Pakistan’s air force plans to purchase at least 250 of the Thunder fighters over the next four to five years.

Experts see the new Pakistani focus on China as evidence that Beijing is trying to expand its military power.

“Countries like Iran and possibly some of the Middle Eastern countries would be keen to deal with China if they can find technology which is comparable to the west,” said one western official in Islamabad.

“Pakistan will work as the laboratory to try out Chinese aircraft. If they work well with the Pakistani air force, others will follow.”



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c42d66b0-cdd0 ... abdc0.html

São quase US$ 40 mi por avião. Dava pra comprar quase dois T-50 com radar EL/M-2032 ou dois Ching-kuo (IDF) com o APG-67 ou ainda dois do futuro Mako, com características steath.

[Sergio C.]

A primeira impressão é a que fica. Certamente é essa a impressão que temos da China, por ter importado tanta mercadoria de merda. Mas, com toda tradição militar chinesa, não creio que eles desenvolveriam uma arma para uso próprio, com o mesmo descaso com que fabricam produtos tipo exportação. Seria interessante sim uma melhor analise deste avião. Porém, não creio em um acordo de transferência de tecnologia.

[Sintra]

Pak to buy 36 Chinese J-10 fighters
Pakistan in Chinese fighter jet deal

By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad
Published: November 10 2009 08:16 | Last updated: November 10 2009 18:29

China has agreed to sell Pakistan at least 36 advanced fighter jets in a deal worth as much as $1.4bn, according to Pakistani and western officials.

Beijing will supply two squadrons of the J-10 fighter jet in a preliminary agreement that could lead to more sales, said a Pakistani official. The official said Pakistan might buy “larger numbers” of the multi-role aircraft in the future, but dismissed reports that Islamabad had signed a deal to purchase as many as 150 of the fighter jets.

Defence experts described the agreement with China as a landmark event in Pakistan’s defence relationship with the military power. China’s transition from a manufacturer of low-fighters to more advanced jets comparable to some western models is seen as evidence of Beijing’s increasing strategic clout in Asia.

“China is developing a real capacity to produce and export its arms. At one point, the Chinese were dependent on imported Russian technology, but obviously China has advanced significantly beyond those days,” said Marika Vicziany, Professor of Asian studies at Monash University in Melbourne.

“This agreement should not simply be seen in the narrow context of Pakistan’s relations with China,” said Abdul Qayyum, a retired Pakistani general.

“There is a wider dimension. By sharing its advanced technology with Pakistan, China is ... also saying to the world that its defence capability is growing rapidly.”

China has supplied Pakistan with fighter jets for more than three decades. But Beijing has seldom supplied Pakistan’s air force with advanced fighter aircraft. Islamabad turned to France for Mirage fighter jets in the 1970s and to the US for F-16s in the 1980s.

Pakistan has a fleet of 45 F-16s built by Lockheed Martin. The Pakistani air force is using the fighter jet in its campaign against militants in South Waziristan.

The US has agreed to sell Islamabad another 18 new F-16s and Pakistani officials also expected the US to supply about a dozen older versions of the aircraft.

Over the past decade, China and Pakistan have collaborated on building their first jointly produced advanced fighter jet, known as the JF-17, or “Thunder”. Pakistan is expected to roll out the first domestically built version of the Thunder within weeks.

Pakistan’s air force plans to purchase at least 250 of the Thunder fighters over the next four to five years.

Experts see the new Pakistani focus on China as evidence that Beijing is trying to expand its military power.

“Countries like Iran and possibly some of the Middle Eastern countries would be keen to deal with China if they can find technology which is comparable to the west,” said one western official in Islamabad.

“Pakistan will work as the laboratory to try out Chinese aircraft. If they work well with the Pakistani air force, others will follow.”



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c42d66b0-cdd0 ... abdc0.html

São quase US$ 40 mi por avião. Dava pra comprar quase dois T-50 com radar EL/M-2032 ou dois Ching-kuo (IDF) com o APG-67 ou ainda dois do futuro Mako, com características steath.

O Ching-Kuo já não se fabrica, o projecto Mako está morto vai para quase uma década e tenho sérias duvidas que o avião Sul Coreano seja muito mais barato que o J-10.

[Sergio C.]

Apresentação do caça J-10

[Barao Vermelho]

Caros Amigos,
No quesito armamento, a China esta muito alem do que imaginamos, no caso do J-10 trata-se de uma aeronave de 4º Geração, sendo que a China já tem projetos muito mais modernos em andamento coisa que sequer podemos projetar no momento, sito: Torpedos "Tecnologia que não temos e eles tem", Projetos em desenvolvimento em nivel de protótipo (Bombardeiro Stelth e Caça de 5º geração), Navios da Marinha Chinesa que encorporam grande tecnologia que nossos estaleiros ainda não tem, sistemas de misseis muito avançado, inclusive com capacidade de destruição de satelites com lançamento de terra, coisa que nem os americanos ainda tem, então acho que devemos ter mais respeito pelos chineses.
Quanto a produtos que compramos no mercado que são feitos na China e muitos de qualidade ruim, é obvio que isso e 3º linha, coisas feitas para venda no varejo mesmo, que infelismente são compradas por empresas que so pensam no lucro e não em satisfação do cliente, nada haver com a capacidade tecnológica dos Chineses que sem duvida e muito grande.

[czarccc]

O Ching-Kuo já não se fabrica, o projecto Mako está morto vai para quase uma década e tenho sérias duvidas que o avião Sul Coreano seja muito mais barato que o J-10.

A única referência ao preço do T-50 que eu já vi é essa:

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3693392

O Mako anda em coma? Havia lido que o preço alvo era de algo em torno de US$ 20 mi e que teria velocidade máxima de M1.5. Se não se concretizar será uma pena. Sabe a quanto anda o projeto? Seria viável a entrada do Brasil na fase em que se encontra? Acredito que seja uma aeronave que possua um mercado potencial gigantesco. Seria em quase todos aspectos, se não em todos, superior aos F-5M/T-38. Seria um excelente e capaz caça de baixo custo, além do melhor treinador avançado.

[Sintra]

O Ching-Kuo já não se fabrica, o projecto Mako está morto vai para quase uma década e tenho sérias duvidas que o avião Sul Coreano seja muito mais barato que o J-10.

A única referência ao preço do T-50 que eu já vi é essa:

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3693392

O Mako anda em coma? Havia lido que o preço alvo era de algo em torno de US$ 20 mi e que teria velocidade máxima de M1.5. Se não se concretizar será uma pena. Sabe a quanto anda o projeto? Seria viável a entrada do Brasil na fase em que se encontra? Acredito que seja uma aeronave que possua um mercado potencial gigantesco. Seria em quase todos aspectos, se não em todos, superior aos F-5M/T-38. Seria um excelente e capaz caça de baixo custo, além do melhor treinador avançado.

O Mako não está em coma, está morto e enterrado.

Quanto a valores, eu tinha guardado no meu disco rigido o relatório final da Força Aérea Sul Africana aquando do concurso para a aquisição de novos caças, os três finalistas eram o Mirage 2000-5, o Gripen c/D (que foi o escolhido) e o MAKO, os valores de aquisição dos três aparelhos eram muito semelhantes, a diferença era de alguns (poucos) pontos percentuais.
Vou ver se encontro o documento.

Abraço

[cabeça de martelo]

[Luís Henrique]

Pak to buy 36 Chinese J-10 fighters
Pakistan in Chinese fighter jet deal

By Farhan Bokhari in Islamabad
Published: November 10 2009 08:16 | Last updated: November 10 2009 18:29

China has agreed to sell Pakistan at least 36 advanced fighter jets in a deal worth as much as $1.4bn, according to Pakistani and western officials.

Beijing will supply two squadrons of the J-10 fighter jet in a preliminary agreement that could lead to more sales, said a Pakistani official. The official said Pakistan might buy “larger numbers” of the multi-role aircraft in the future, but dismissed reports that Islamabad had signed a deal to purchase as many as 150 of the fighter jets.

Defence experts described the agreement with China as a landmark event in Pakistan’s defence relationship with the military power. China’s transition from a manufacturer of low-fighters to more advanced jets comparable to some western models is seen as evidence of Beijing’s increasing strategic clout in Asia.

“China is developing a real capacity to produce and export its arms. At one point, the Chinese were dependent on imported Russian technology, but obviously China has advanced significantly beyond those days,” said Marika Vicziany, Professor of Asian studies at Monash University in Melbourne.

“This agreement should not simply be seen in the narrow context of Pakistan’s relations with China,” said Abdul Qayyum, a retired Pakistani general.

“There is a wider dimension. By sharing its advanced technology with Pakistan, China is ... also saying to the world that its defence capability is growing rapidly.”

China has supplied Pakistan with fighter jets for more than three decades. But Beijing has seldom supplied Pakistan’s air force with advanced fighter aircraft. Islamabad turned to France for Mirage fighter jets in the 1970s and to the US for F-16s in the 1980s.

Pakistan has a fleet of 45 F-16s built by Lockheed Martin. The Pakistani air force is using the fighter jet in its campaign against militants in South Waziristan.

The US has agreed to sell Islamabad another 18 new F-16s and Pakistani officials also expected the US to supply about a dozen older versions of the aircraft.

Over the past decade, China and Pakistan have collaborated on building their first jointly produced advanced fighter jet, known as the JF-17, or “Thunder”. Pakistan is expected to roll out the first domestically built version of the Thunder within weeks.

Pakistan’s air force plans to purchase at least 250 of the Thunder fighters over the next four to five years.

Experts see the new Pakistani focus on China as evidence that Beijing is trying to expand its military power.

“Countries like Iran and possibly some of the Middle Eastern countries would be keen to deal with China if they can find technology which is comparable to the west,” said one western official in Islamabad.

“Pakistan will work as the laboratory to try out Chinese aircraft. If they work well with the Pakistani air force, others will follow.”



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c42d66b0-cdd0 ... abdc0.html

São quase US$ 40 mi por avião. Dava pra comprar quase dois T-50 com radar EL/M-2032 ou dois Ching-kuo (IDF) com o APG-67 ou ainda dois do futuro Mako, com características steath.

Você sabe qual o pacote envolvido???

Eu ja li que o J-10 tem preço de cerca de U$ 25 mi PELADO.
Porém, dependendo do pacote de sobressalentes e armas a coisa muda de figura.

O SH tem preço pelado de cerca de U$ 50 mi. Porém, veja quanto a Australia pagou por cada um....

Outra coisa, o J-10 não pode ser comparado com estes lifts. É um caça de 4ª geração. Tem 14.500 kg/F de empuxo. É melhor que um F-16C e fica pouco atrás de caças como o Rafale e o Eurofighter.

[alex]

O que a falta de definição do FX2 causa......O pessoa aquivai surtar logo,logo.

[czarccc]

China readies J-10A fighter for export
By Andrei Chang and John Wu
Published: May 08, 2009

Hong Kong, China — China is aiming at a substantial share of the international market for third-generation fighter aircraft, with a particular eye on oil-rich third-world countries as part of its arms-for-oil strategy. This was evidenced by the high-profile display of its J-10A fighter at the 2008 Zhuhai Air Show last November.

Chinese experts were observed giving exhaustive information on the J-10A to military delegations from Angola, Nigeria and Venezuela at the air show. Venezuela seemed most interested in the aircraft.

The first foreign buyer of the J-10A will be Pakistan, a source from the Chinese aviation industry said. In March, Pakistan’s Air Chief Marshall Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed confirmed that a deal with China had been reached, and the aircraft would be delivered in 2014 and 2015. The version for Pakistan will be called the FC-20.

However, there is an issue with the engine on this aircraft. The J-10A is currently equipped with Russian-made AL-31F aviation engines. It is unclear whether Russia will permit China to install these engines on its aircraft and then export them to Pakistan. Such a move would have not only economic but also political repercussions, considering that Pakistan’s rival, India, is a major purchaser of Russian arms.

For this reason, the export version of the J-10A fighter is still under design. Both the engine and the weapon systems on board will be different from the domestic version, according to the source from the Chinese aviation industry.

India has been using the Russian AL-31FP engine extensively in its fighter aircraft. If China exports large numbers of J-10P/FC-20 fighters outfitted with Russian engines to Pakistan, India will be much more concerned over this deal than with China’s earlier export of JF-17 2.5-generation fighters to Pakistan. As a third-generation combat aircraft, the J-10A will pose a real threat to the Indian Air Force.

With this concern, India sent a strong delegation to the Zhuhai Air Show to expand its contacts with the Chinese, led by its air chief of staff. The Indian Air Force’s aerobatics demonstration team also put on a performance at this event.

At the Singapore Air Show earlier last year, Indian Air Chief Marshall Fali Homi Major had already carefully inspected the simulation cockpit of the JF-17, which is being jointly developed by China and Pakistan. His trip to Zhuhai was to examine the J-10A/ FC-20 fighter.

In contrast to India’s increased interest in engaging with China, Russia sent a much smaller delegation than usual to Zhuhai. For the first time, Russia did not exhibit any combat aircraft or radar systems at the air show. Some representatives of Russian enterprises even cancelled their planned trips to China at the last minute.

One member of the Russian military delegation described China-Russian arms trade as being in a long and drawn-out “winter.” A representative of Rosoboronexport, the agency that handles exports of Russian defense equipment, declined to comment on China’s possible export of J-10A fighters equipped with Russian AL-31F engines.

China did have its own indigenous engine on display at the show, the Taihang turbofan engine, with a thrust power of 13,200 kilograms – although some experts say it is only 12,800 kilograms. The Taihang’s exterior design and modular structure, as well as the processing and polishing technologies of the core machine and engine blades, seem to be an improvement over China’s previous aviation engines, but it is still far behind similar systems from Russia and Western countries.

Representatives of China’s Liming Motor Corporation refused to answer questions about the engine’s performance features. It is unclear why China decided to introduce this engine to the international market when it has not elected to use it on its own J-10 fighters.

A Chinese military source disclosed that China has been promoting the J-10A to Egypt, but it appears that no substantial negotiations have yet taken place. An authoritative source from the Russian military industry has said that Russia will not allow China to use its engines in exported planes if it perceives such sales as having a negative impact on Russia’s own export market. Egypt was once a major client of Russian arms, though it now buys little other than spare parts.

Pakistan, on the other hand, is not a traditional client of Russian aircraft. Therefore Russia allowed its engines to be used on the JF-17 fighters China is developing with Pakistan. The same arrangement may therefore hold for the J-10A.

The basic price for the J-10A is about US$29.3 million, according to the Chinese source. Considering that China aims to sell this fighter primarily to oil-producing countries – and is prepared to trade it for oil and other natural resources – it could be an attractive option for such countries.

A general assessment of the export version of the J-10A fighter can conclude that its engine has less thrust than the F-16 Block 52, while its radar system is more or less on a par with the Zhuk-ME multifunction radar on the Russian MiG-28 SMT. This is because Russia’s Phazotron Design Bureau exported to China three sets of its Zemchung multirole radar systems after 2001, allowing China to come up with its own version of the Zhuk-ME radar. This radar has a detection range of 120 kilometers for 5m2 aerial targets and can attack four targets in the air simultaneously.

In terms of the diversity and performance of its weapon systems, especially long-range attack weapons, the J-10A lags far behind the F-16 Block 52. The-air-to-air missiles loaded on the J-10A fighter at the Zhuhai exhibition were SD-10A AAMs with compound hardpoints. The SD-10A is a medium-range active radar-guided air-to-air missile upgraded from the SD-10, with its maximum range extended to 70 kilometers. Its length is 3.9 meters, diameter 203 millimeters, weight 198 kilograms, and maximum speed Mach 5.

The PL-12 air-to-air missiles currently in service in the PLA Air Force have undergone similar upgrading. Short-range missiles include the new-generation PL-5EII and PL-9C. The PL-5EII is equipped with a multichannel infrared seeker, the latest laser proximity fuse, and a rocket motor with a non-smoke propellant.

The air-to-ground weapons on the J-10A mainly include the LT-2 laser-guided bomb and the FT series of global positioning system-guided bombs. In recent years China has been imitating U.S. aviation combat weapons, a trend that is reflected in the weapon platforms on the J-10A, including its imitation U.S. joint direct attack munition serial bombs.

At the most recent Zhuhai show, China put on open display its FT-5 GPS-guided bomb. The FT-1 and FT-3 500/250-kilogram-class GPS-guided bombs were on display at the previous show in 2006. China also showed off its 500-kilogram-class FT-2 with gliding fins added. The FT-2 has an effective range of 15-90 kilometers, a circular error probability of 20 meters and an air-dropping altitude of 3,000 to 12,000 meters.

The FT-5 small-diameter bomb copies the latest design of the U.S. military. A designer of the system said that the FT-5’s warhead has a weight of 35 kilograms and a circular error probability of 15 meters. It was developed mainly for unmanned aerial vehicles. The effective range of the FT-5 is 2-5 kilometers when launched from a UAV and 3-35 kilometers when launched from a J-10A.

China has also developed the LT-3 GPS+ terminal laser-guided air-to-ground missile for the J-10A, which is very similar in structure to the U.S. Army’s JDAM+ laser-guided bomb.

These imitations provide evidence that the Chinese military has been tracking U.S. technology, viewing the United States as both a presumed enemy and a competitor in the arms export market. Of course China’s imitations are not limited to U.S. military equipment, but it is certainly learning from U.S. technology as well as military combat doctrines.

China is now paying close attention to the development of anti-GPS-jamming multiple-guidance weapons. Its Sekong Company has developed a 570-kilogram-class guided bomb based on the Russian Krasnopole laser-guided projectile’s seeker technology. China plans to promote this guided bomb along with the J-10A. A designer says that this bomb has a circular error probability of 3.1 meters and an air-release altitude of 500-10,000 meters.

It is not clear whether the LT-3 has ever been test-fired, as China did not show video footage of this guided bomb under test.

As for anti-ship weapons, Chinese promoters of the J-10A claim that the fighter can carry 75-kilometer-range new-generation C-705 anti-ship missiles or C-802A anti-ship missiles with a range close to 250 kilometers. The C-705 was also on exhibit for the first time. The C-705 is a modified version of the C-704, with a turbojet engine and two flight fins. The weight of its warhead is 110 kilograms and it has a minimum flight altitude of 12 meters.

The J-10A fighter has 11 hardpoints, two of which are of compound structure, making the total number of hardpoints 13.

The PLA Navy seems to be assessing the possibility of acquiring J-10As for its combat ships. A Chinese source said that the navy liked its price and its aerial refuelling capability. This source also disclosed that the J-10A’s combat radius is 800 kilometers. In this regard, the technological standard of the materials used on the J-10A can be judged far inferior to those of the same-generation fighters of the United States and Europe.

The J-10A is already fitted with an arresting hook imported from Russia for shipboard landing drills. However, the same source said no decision had as yet been made as to whether the PLA Navy will employ the J-10A as a ship-borne combat aircraft.

--

(Andrei Chang is editor-in-chief of Kanwa Defense Review Monthly, registered in Toronto, Canada. John Wu is a reporter for the same magazine.)

Essa de versão de exportação me assusta. A experiência, traumática, que tive com produtos chineses de exportação é que uma vez que você comprou, se vira nos 30. Nada de garantia, suporte, durabilidade ou qualquer preocupação com a satisfação do cliente. É trauma meu povo. Ainda que os chineses passem a ser os melhores fornecedores do mundo em todos os aspectos, o trauma da primeira impressão demora a passar. Eles ainda tem que provar muita coisa pra me convencer.

[crubens]

São quase US$ 40 mi por avião. Dava pra comprar quase dois T-50 com radar EL/M-2032 ou dois Ching-kuo (IDF) com o APG-67 ou ainda dois do futuro Mako, com características steath.

Você sabe qual o pacote envolvido???

Eu ja li que o J-10 tem preço de cerca de U$ 25 mi PELADO.
Porém, dependendo do pacote de sobressalentes e armas a coisa muda de figura.

O SH tem preço pelado de cerca de U$ 50 mi. Porém, veja quanto a Australia pagou por cada um....

Outra coisa, o J-10 não pode ser comparado com estes lifts. É um caça de 4ª geração. Tem 14.500 kg/F de empuxo. É melhor que um F-16C e fica pouco atrás de caças como o Rafale e o Eurofighter.

Isso na teoria, porque aqui ninguém conhece a fundo pra tal afirmação.

[otaolive]

Esse preconceito com a China chega a ser ridículo.

Falam mal, mas eles são bem mais independentes que essa nossa terra tupiniquim.

Falam da tecnologia chinesa....alguém aí se lembra do primeiro homem chinês indo ao espaço? Será que ele foi de carona na ISS que nem um brasileiro?

Adoram falar mal dos outros, mas não olham pro próprio quintal...