Su-35 News

Assuntos em discussão: Força Aérea Brasileira, forças aéreas estrangeiras e aviação militar.

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Re: Su-35 News

#3331 Mensagem por Penguin » Qui Set 17, 2009 10:40 pm

Archer escreveu:
Túlio escreveu:For we are about to see the Rafales interacting with our indigenous E-99A AEW&C. In a Cruzex Exercise, our poor F-5Ms (something like your MiGs-21s) alone but vectored by E-99 through data-link literaly 'made into pieces' the M2000 offensive - and they (the French) had an AWACS by their side, it didn't 'caught' even the E-99, since it's a small target too... :wink:
Would really like any discussions/ threads/ posts you have on your Mirage 2000 and F-5 exercises!!

What is surprising it could not catch the E-99?? Could you share more details?

Very interesting! Thanks.
Archer,

Welcome! Very good information you've brought to this forum.

A couple of years ago I read about an indigenous AWACS program developed by DRDO. Do you have any news about the status of this program?

Cheers!

Santiago




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Re: Su-35 News

#3332 Mensagem por Archer » Sex Set 18, 2009 3:29 pm

Reygar,
Hi, Archer !

I have been watched your posts e the infos that you share with us , thank you for doing that , it's highly apreciated .

I would like to ask you about a certain amount of infor that i checked in the web, that's regardless of India can e will produce Su-30MKI , India is planning to buy MIG35 and Su-35BM to be like a dorsal line in the IAF and the tip of the sword will be the T-50 (PAK FA) .

My doubts about that are all the money spent in su-30 project and revitalization of migs and mirrages .
Beyond that. you said and i agree
Thanks for your kind words Reygar.

Right now there is no plan to buy Su-35 BMs, it wouldnt be useful as it adds a new type to the IAF inventory.

What has happened is that the IAF is looking at 50 more Su-30's to add to existing orders of 230, so the total size would be 280. This would compensate for any delay in MMRCA project etc.

So the Russians offered us Su-35 BM as an "alternative".

Instead, IAF aims to upgrade Su-30 MKI with new avionics to bring it to Su-35 BM level (in terms of radar and other items), but Su-35 BM will remain superior in terms of flight performance (lighter plane, more powerful engines).

About MiG-35, it is one of the competitors in the MRCA, and has following advantages:

Low upfront cost
Existing logistics for MiG-29 and engines
Good TOT
Politically reliable (as compared to, US)

But it is not chosen yet. One of the main things against it is the fact that if India buys MiGs it will be "all Russian" with over dependence on Russia, with Su-30 MKI, MRCA and FGFA (T-50 for India) all Russian.

The tip of the spear will be- you are very right - the T-50, but only after 2015 and beyond. The PAK-FA Indian variant will mainly differ in avionics, and will probably include Indian and foreign (non Russian) equipment.

Indian Air Force plans for 180 FGFA's - 9 to 10 squadrons, but as always, the numbers can increase depending on their plans and what China does.

Portugese (Google)

Obrigado pelas suas amáveis palavras Reygar.

Agora não há nenhum plano para comprar Su-35 MIs, não seria útil, pois acrescenta um novo tipo para o inventário da IAF.

O que aconteceu é que o IAF está olhando mais 50 Su-30 para adicionar aos pedidos existentes de 230, assim o tamanho total seria de 280. Isso para compensar qualquer atraso no projeto MMRCA etc

Assim, os russos ofereceram-nos Su-35 BM como uma "alternativa".

Em vez disso, a Força Aérea indiana tem por objectivo melhorar Su-30 MKI com novos aviônicos para trazê-lo para Su-35 BM nível (em termos de radar e outros itens), mas Su-35 BM continuará a ser superior em termos de desempenho de vôo (mais leve avião, motores mais potentes).

Sobre o MiG-35, é um dos concorrentes no MRCA, e tem as seguintes vantagens:

Baixo custo inicial
Logística existente para o MiG-29 e motores
Boa TOT
Politicamente confiável (em comparação com, E.U.)

Mas não é escolhido pelo visitante. Uma das principais coisas contra ele é o fato de que, se a Índia compra GAI, à Força Aérea da Índia será quase "todos os russos", com mais de dependência da Rússia, com o Su-30 MKI, MRCA e FGFA (T-50 para a Índia) todos os russo. Apenas LCA MK2 será não russo.

A ponta da lança vai ser-você está muito certo - o T-50, mas só depois de 2015 e além. O PAK-FA variante indiana vai se diferenciam principalmente na aviação, e provavelmente incluem indianos e estrangeiros (não em russo) de equipamentos.

Indian Air Force quer ter 180 FGFA's - 9 a 10 esquadrões, mas, como sempre, o número pode aumentar dependendo dos seus planos e que a China faz.




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Re: Su-35 News

#3333 Mensagem por Archer » Sex Set 18, 2009 3:33 pm

Jacobs escreveu:Hey Archer , could you tell us if IAF plans to upgrade Su-30K to the -MKI standard someday?
Jacobs, the plan to upgrade the Su-30 K to MKIs was dropped. Instead, the Indian Air Force is receiving new MKIs in exchange (we had to pay the Russians the difference in cost, its like a swap deal). Basically, the Russians said it made no sense to upgrade the K to the MKI, as it would involve a lot of structural work, to include the huge Bars radar, the canards, and the TVC engines. So much better to build new MKIs.




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Re: Su-35 News

#3334 Mensagem por Archer » Sex Set 18, 2009 3:39 pm

otaolive escreveu:Seja bem vindo Archer, bons posts, mas sem querer ser chato, o tópico é sobre a Força Aérea Indiana ou sobre SU-35 News ????
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome Archer, very nice posts, but excuse me for my unkindness, this is a SU-35 News topic instead IAF topic. I think this deserve an appropriate topic. :wink:
Some interesting news for you Amigo.

At MAKS 2009, Russia displayed its latest DRFM jammers, the SAP-15 and SAP-15 from KNIRTI.

The SAP-14 is a HUGE centerline, podded jammer, water cooled. Its an escort jammer for escorting formations (just imagine the power it must have to protect a formation of Sukhois ) while SAP-15 is a wingtip mounted Russian jammer (self protection). The Malaysians have purchased another type called the SAP-518M.

Both SAP-14 and SAP-15 are advertised for Su-30 MK, but clearly they can be used for Su-35 also.

Portugese



Algumas notícias interessantes para você Amigo.

Na MAKS 2009, a Rússia apresentado o seu mais recente jammers DRFM, o SAP-15 e SAP-15 de KNIRTI.

A SAP-14 é uma central ENORME, jammer podded, refrigerado a água. Sua jammer uma escolta para formações de escolta (apenas imaginar o poder que deve ter para proteger a formação de Sukhois), enquanto a SAP-15 é uma das pontas das asas montado jammer Russo (auto protecção). Os malaios ter comprado um outro tipo chamado o SAP-518M.

Ambos SAP-14 e SAP-15 são anunciados para o Su-30 MK, mas é evidente que eles podem ser usados para Su-35 também.




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Re: Su-35 News

#3335 Mensagem por Archer » Sex Set 18, 2009 6:22 pm

Santiago escreveu:Archer,

Welcome! Very good information you've brought to this forum.

A couple of years ago I read about an indigenous AWACS program developed by DRDO. Do you have any news about the status of this program?

Cheers!

Santiago
Thanks Santiago, I assume it is ok if I reply in English as yours is excellent. Please let me know if you want a translation.

The DRDO AEW &C program is indeed going ahead. Its currently in an advanced stage of development and demonstration, as its primary sensor, the S Band AESA developed by DRDO (LRDE, Bangalore) now has a demonstration unit, (smaller version) for ground based tests and the like developed and being tested. Once it is validated, they will install this & the other equipment on the Embraer for flight trials and the entire system will be ready by around 2012 for delivery to the IAF.

Apart from the radar, work is also progressing simultaneously on all the other components, including its advanced battle management software (to manage multiple targets, vector fighters, give instructions to operators for flight operations etc), computer stations (Operator work stations) and its ESM suite (capable of geolocation). These are all being developed by DRDO. Other systems include an IFF codeveloped with a South African firm, based on the latters design (software driven IFF) and a Self Protection suite with MAWS codeveloped with israel.

The program is doing ok at the moment, and particularly so because India has managed to get some important experience in radars over the past 20 years, we now have several radars of our own design in service and many others in development. Where we have lagged are in airborne radars, but there too, we are steadily catching up. The crucial challenge, after AEW&C , will be the X-Band AESA for the LCA MK2, the program was cleared in November last year.




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Re: Su-35 News

#3336 Mensagem por Sintra » Sex Set 18, 2009 8:14 pm

Archer escreveu:
Santiago escreveu:Archer,

Welcome! Very good information you've brought to this forum.

A couple of years ago I read about an indigenous AWACS program developed by DRDO. Do you have any news about the status of this program?

Cheers!

Santiago
Thanks Santiago, I assume it is ok if I reply in English as yours is excellent. Please let me know if you want a translation.

The DRDO AEW &C program is indeed going ahead. Its currently in an advanced stage of development and demonstration, as its primary sensor, the S Band AESA developed by DRDO (LRDE, Bangalore) now has a demonstration unit, (smaller version) for ground based tests and the like developed and being tested. Once it is validated, they will install this & the other equipment on the Embraer for flight trials and the entire system will be ready by around 2012 for delivery to the IAF.

Apart from the radar, work is also progressing simultaneously on all the other components, including its advanced battle management software (to manage multiple targets, vector fighters, give instructions to operators for flight operations etc), computer stations (Operator work stations) and its ESM suite (capable of geolocation). These are all being developed by DRDO. Other systems include an IFF codeveloped with a South African firm, based on the latters design (software driven IFF) and a Self Protection suite with MAWS codeveloped with israel.

The program is doing ok at the moment, and particularly so because India has managed to get some important experience in radars over the past 20 years, we now have several radars of our own design in service and many others in development. Where we have lagged are in airborne radars, but there too, we are steadily catching up. The crucial challenge, after AEW&C , will be the X-Band AESA for the LCA MK2, the program was cleared in November last year.
Archer

Wellcome to the DB.

Just one point, there were more than a few rumours about a certain Israeli AESA radar for the LCA Mk2 (the ELTA EL/M-2052) and looking at what is being fitted out on the LCA Mk1 it does seem quite logic that this is more than just gossip.
My question is the following, is there any official information about the LCA MK2 radar?

Cheers




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Re: Su-35 News

#3337 Mensagem por Archer » Sáb Set 19, 2009 9:35 am

Hi Sintra,

The LCA MK1 currently has a "hybrid" MMR- Multi Mode Radar. It combines the Indian radar hardware and software, with some Israeli black boxes and software - namely the Israelis gave additional signal processing hardware for Air to Ground functions. The first few LCA MK1s of course, have the Elta 2032 which was put in place while the "hybrid MMR" got ready. Both these radars are MSA.

The LCA MK2 AESA program was officially launched in November 2008. It will have a bank of x Band Tx/Rx modules coupled to an ERP unit. This ERP unit will basically be the rest of the radar, more or less, combining an Exciter Receiver Processor. The ERP and the Tx/Rx modules will be developed by LRDE, Bangalore, which is India's leading radar design unit (not a production unit, which is Bharat Electronics).

By doing so, the problems which affected the MMR development (Which was led by HAL, not a radar specialist) are hoped to be avoided. LRDE was a subcomponent supplier and there were problems between HAL and LRDE, so this time LRDE is responsible for the entire program.

Now, the LCA MK2 is expected by 2014-15. Given the timelines, its expected that the LRDE will work with radar houses with proven experience in AESA fighter radars. The contenders include, the Elta group (2052), the Selex/EADS group (Captor-E) and others. My best guess is that Elta and EADS both stand a good chance. Israel and Elta have a huge advantage in that it has worked extensively with India on many high end programs already, and EADS in that, it has recently declared it is a strategic decision to share technology with India.

EADS also won a consulting contract with the LCA team, replacing an earlier contact with British Aerospace during the early years (and which was a great help) which lapsed because BAe could not afford to even depute a few of its senior engineers to India for audit/ guidance purposes from time to time, on account of BAe's commitment to the Eurofighter program. Also, EADS technology seems mature, whereas Elta's 2052 is the first of its type for Elta.

India does have experience with AESA radars, it has developed (with Israeli and French assistance), the LRTR (L Band Long Range Tracking Radar) and the MFCR (Multi Function Fire Control Radar) for its strategic Air Defense program. Two more AESA programs in development are the S Band Medium Power Radar and the S Band Primary radar for the AEW&C.

But this will be India's first AESA fighter radar, so there will be a tech jump in miniaturizing the modules and hence EADS/ Elta's help will prove very helpful.




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Re: Su-35 News

#3338 Mensagem por Reygar » Dom Set 20, 2009 9:24 am

Archer escreveu:Reygar,
Hi, Archer !

I have been watched your posts e the infos that you share with us , thank you for doing that , it's highly apreciated .

I would like to ask you about a certain amount of infor that i checked in the web, that's regardless of India can e will produce Su-30MKI , India is planning to buy MIG35 and Su-35BM to be like a dorsal line in the IAF and the tip of the sword will be the T-50 (PAK FA) .

My doubts about that are all the money spent in su-30 project and revitalization of migs and mirrages .
Beyond that. you said and i agree
Thanks for your kind words Reygar.

Right now there is no plan to buy Su-35 BMs, it wouldnt be useful as it adds a new type to the IAF inventory.

What has happened is that the IAF is looking at 50 more Su-30's to add to existing orders of 230, so the total size would be 280. This would compensate for any delay in MMRCA project etc.

So the Russians offered us Su-35 BM as an "alternative".

Instead, IAF aims to upgrade Su-30 MKI with new avionics to bring it to Su-35 BM level (in terms of radar and other items), but Su-35 BM will remain superior in terms of flight performance (lighter plane, more powerful engines).

About MiG-35, it is one of the competitors in the MRCA, and has following advantages:

Low upfront cost
Existing logistics for MiG-29 and engines
Good TOT
Politically reliable (as compared to, US)

But it is not chosen yet. One of the main things against it is the fact that if India buys MiGs it will be "all Russian" with over dependence on Russia, with Su-30 MKI, MRCA and FGFA (T-50 for India) all Russian.

The tip of the spear will be- you are very right - the T-50, but only after 2015 and beyond. The PAK-FA Indian variant will mainly differ in avionics, and will probably include Indian and foreign (non Russian) equipment.

Indian Air Force plans for 180 FGFA's - 9 to 10 squadrons, but as always, the numbers can increase depending on their plans and what China does.

Portugese (Google)

Obrigado pelas suas amáveis palavras Reygar.

Agora não há nenhum plano para comprar Su-35 MIs, não seria útil, pois acrescenta um novo tipo para o inventário da IAF.

O que aconteceu é que o IAF está olhando mais 50 Su-30 para adicionar aos pedidos existentes de 230, assim o tamanho total seria de 280. Isso para compensar qualquer atraso no projeto MMRCA etc

Assim, os russos ofereceram-nos Su-35 BM como uma "alternativa".

Em vez disso, a Força Aérea indiana tem por objectivo melhorar Su-30 MKI com novos aviônicos para trazê-lo para Su-35 BM nível (em termos de radar e outros itens), mas Su-35 BM continuará a ser superior em termos de desempenho de vôo (mais leve avião, motores mais potentes).

Sobre o MiG-35, é um dos concorrentes no MRCA, e tem as seguintes vantagens:

Baixo custo inicial
Logística existente para o MiG-29 e motores
Boa TOT
Politicamente confiável (em comparação com, E.U.)

Mas não é escolhido pelo visitante. Uma das principais coisas contra ele é o fato de que, se a Índia compra GAI, à Força Aérea da Índia será quase "todos os russos", com mais de dependência da Rússia, com o Su-30 MKI, MRCA e FGFA (T-50 para a Índia) todos os russo. Apenas LCA MK2 será não russo.

A ponta da lança vai ser-você está muito certo - o T-50, mas só depois de 2015 e além. O PAK-FA variante indiana vai se diferenciam principalmente na aviação, e provavelmente incluem indianos e estrangeiros (não em russo) de equipamentos.

Indian Air Force quer ter 180 FGFA's - 9 a 10 esquadrões, mas, como sempre, o número pode aumentar dependendo dos seus planos e que a China faz.

Thank you Archer !

Words of Wisdom . Thank you about the other answers as well, a lot of content !




Carlos Mathias

Re: Su-35 News

#3339 Mensagem por Carlos Mathias » Dom Set 20, 2009 2:34 pm

Politicamente confiável (em comparação com, E.U.)
Muito interessante...




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Re: Su-35 News

#3340 Mensagem por Archer » Dom Set 20, 2009 5:44 pm

Carlos Mathias escreveu:
Politicamente confiável (em comparação com, E.U.)
Muito interessante...
I meant United States, the translation software made it E.U.

The US has a tendency, being the biggest gorilla in the world, to armtwist smaller "apes" to suit its desires.

In our case, the U.S. will be ok/neutral when it comes to China, but when it comes to Pakistan- the United States has strategic interest in propping up the military there.

Google translate

Eu quis dizer Estados Unidos da América, o software de tradução feita a UE

Os US tem uma tendência, sendo o maior gorila do mundo, a armtwist menor "macacos" para satisfazer seus desejos.

No nosso caso, os US. será ok / neutro quando se trata da China, mas quando chega ao Paquistão, os Estados Unidos têm interesse estratégico em sustentando a não militar.




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Re: Su-35 News

#3341 Mensagem por P44 » Seg Set 21, 2009 6:00 am

The US has a tendency, being the biggest gorilla in the world, to armtwist smaller "apes" to suit its desires.
This sentence should be sticked on the Rafale's related topics (I mean sticked, with super-glue!!!) :mrgreen:




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Carlos Mathias

Re: Su-35 News

#3342 Mensagem por Carlos Mathias » Seg Set 21, 2009 11:38 am

I've got it Archer, altought it was wrong, even like this I knew who was the target, it's always the same guy. :wink:

And P-44, the blue team never comes here, they don't like to read some things that makes their trues not as reliable as they wish it were.

That's why I always say we have to observe others real experience to get good and worthy information, not only magazines and byased foruns on the internet.

Archer is putting some light about certain things. :wink:




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Re: Su-35 News

#3343 Mensagem por alcmartin » Seg Set 21, 2009 2:37 pm

Hi, Archer!

Welcome here and it's a pleasure to talk with you.
Here in Brazil and another countries, we have a very basic(!! :D ) curiosity: how did you deal with the differences with russian measure system(metrical)? Was There a conversion in the instruments or the pilots have "to do" it? In case of conversion, change of the instruments, where were they make? Russia or India? And where are they(the instruments) from?
Can you talk a little about it?

I made these stupid(!) :mrgreen: questions, because there is a big resistance here, in changing things... :mrgreen: Maybe it's not so difficult, or not even necessary, as much of us is thinking... :mrgreen: :twisted:

Thanks!




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Re: Su-35 News

#3344 Mensagem por gaitero » Seg Set 21, 2009 4:05 pm

Túlio escreveu:
Carlos Mathias escreveu:Ué? Mas não era prá falar português???? :roll:

O DB é um Fórum BRASILEIRO, logo, o Português é naturalmente a língua oficial. Agora, procures em Fóruns das Nações vizinhas e realmente verás OBRIGATORIEDADE do Espanhol - uma das razões que me mantêm afastado deles. Este é OUTRO de nossos diferenciais, não obrigamos a usar seja que idioma for, se o Archer disser algo em Inglês e quiseres responder em Português, ninguém te impede de fazê-lo - exceto a Razão, eis que ele NÃO te entenderá. Há páginas inteiras em Inglês e Francês em outros tópicos, não vi ninguém reclamar, será que é porque aqui há interação e infos novas?

Não obstante, há uma experiência em andamento neste tópico: FLOOD ZERO! Na página 220 há um relatório que mantenho atualizado sobre os floods deletados.
Túlio, sugiro que se possível mantenha esta política Flood 0 em todos os tópicos importantes, ou estratégicos do DB..

O nível aqui neste tópico esta muito acima da média e com certeza isto é uma prova simples do quão eficiente esta a ser este teste...

:wink:




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Re: Su-35 News

#3345 Mensagem por Sintra » Seg Set 21, 2009 7:38 pm

Archer escreveu:Hi Sintra,

The LCA MK1 currently has a "hybrid" MMR- Multi Mode Radar. It combines the Indian radar hardware and software, with some Israeli black boxes and software - namely the Israelis gave additional signal processing hardware for Air to Ground functions. The first few LCA MK1s of course, have the Elta 2032 which was put in place while the "hybrid MMR" got ready. Both these radars are MSA.

The LCA MK2 AESA program was officially launched in November 2008. It will have a bank of x Band Tx/Rx modules coupled to an ERP unit. This ERP unit will basically be the rest of the radar, more or less, combining an Exciter Receiver Processor. The ERP and the Tx/Rx modules will be developed by LRDE, Bangalore, which is India's leading radar design unit (not a production unit, which is Bharat Electronics).

By doing so, the problems which affected the MMR development (Which was led by HAL, not a radar specialist) are hoped to be avoided. LRDE was a subcomponent supplier and there were problems between HAL and LRDE, so this time LRDE is responsible for the entire program.

Now, the LCA MK2 is expected by 2014-15. Given the timelines, its expected that the LRDE will work with radar houses with proven experience in AESA fighter radars. The contenders include, the Elta group (2052), the Selex/EADS group (Captor-E) and others. My best guess is that Elta and EADS both stand a good chance. Israel and Elta have a huge advantage in that it has worked extensively with India on many high end programs already, and EADS in that, it has recently declared it is a strategic decision to share technology with India.

EADS also won a consulting contract with the LCA team, replacing an earlier contact with British Aerospace during the early years (and which was a great help) which lapsed because BAe could not afford to even depute a few of its senior engineers to India for audit/ guidance purposes from time to time, on account of BAe's commitment to the Eurofighter program. Also, EADS technology seems mature, whereas Elta's 2052 is the first of its type for Elta.

India does have experience with AESA radars, it has developed (with Israeli and French assistance), the LRTR (L Band Long Range Tracking Radar) and the MFCR (Multi Function Fire Control Radar) for its strategic Air Defense program. Two more AESA programs in development are the S Band Medium Power Radar and the S Band Primary radar for the AEW&C.

But this will be India's first AESA fighter radar, so there will be a tech jump in miniaturizing the modules and hence EADS/ Elta's help will prove very helpful.
Archer

Thank you for the answer.
I was under the impression that until now every LCA delivered had the ELTA 2032 and the HAL-DRDO multi-mode radar was (his) with severe development problems.
I might be wrong on this one, but if i am not mistaken, the HAL-DRDO MMR has not even been instaled in one test aircraft (i mean one LCA, it has been on the HS-748M for ages)!

Cheers




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