NOTICIAS

[Marino]

Lembrem-se de uma coisa muito simples:
- a célula é a única coisa que será aproveitada do antigo avião. A mesma será totalmente recuperada pela Marsh, com garantia de 20 anos (creio);
- motores turbo novos;
- aviônica nova (Embraer), manutenção no Brasil (Embraer), radar AEW instalado no Brasil (Embraer), manutenção do radar no Brasil (Embraer);
- link de dados com a FAB (mesmo link);
- única aeronave capaz de pousar no SP, para esta função;
- o Brasil será o terceiro país do mundo a operar AEW asa-fixa a bordo de PA (antes da Inglaterra).
Três funções com o mesmo avião.
Quem sabe 4, com ASW??????????? (chute meu, para o futuro).
Tomara que seja confirmado. A aviação naval vai para outro patamar.
Quanto a um novo caça para a MB, vai sair o A-4M e esperemos pelo novo caça da FAB. Se o mesmo tiver uma versão naval, quem sabe pode ser usado no SP. Se o SP não puder recebê-lo, a MB o usará no próximo PA.

[Junker]

Umkhonto-R para a MB?

SA Hopes Brazil Will Join Another Missile Project

Picture by: Denel

HITTING THE MARKET: Test launch of an Umkhonto-IR

By: Keith Campbell
Published: 17 Oct 08 - 0:00
A Brazilian report has stated that South Africa's State-owned defence industrial group Denel is proposing that the Brazilian Navy cooperate with it in the development of the radar-guided version of Denel Dynamics' Umkhonto naval surface-to-air missile (SAM), designated Umkhonto-R. If so, this would parallel the current cooperation between Denel Dynamics and the Brazilian Air Force in the development of the A-Darter air-to-air missile. It is known that Denel is seeking to widen its cooperation with Brazil, with Unmanned Air Vehicles likely to be the next area of partnership. The Brazilian and South African Navies will start high-level staff talks late next month (November) and it is believed that this would provide the ideal opportunity for the South African Navy to lobby the Brazilians to join the Umkhonto-R programme.

The original, infrared-homing, version of the Umkhonto, designated Umkhonto-IR, is now in service with the South African and Finnish Navies and is being seriously considered by the Swedish Navy. Radar homing would give the missile greater range. While the slant (as distinct from vertical, or horizontal) range of the Umkhonto-IR is believed to be 14 km, that for the Umkhonto-R would, reportedly, be 20 km. (The Denel Dynamics public brochure for the Umkhonto-IR states "Range: 12 000 m", and gives a ceiling of 8 000 m.)

The South African Department of Defence is, it seems, providing funding for the Umkhonto-R project, but this is not likely to be enough to allow a purely national development of the programme within a reasonable time. (If a weapon system takes too long to develop, it becomes obsolete before it even enters service.) Hence Denel's, and South Africa's, reported desire for a partner.

The engagement sequence for the Umkhonto-IR is as follows: the warship detects a target on its acquisition radar and launches the missile against it; the SAM uses its on-board inertial navigation subsystem to fly itself to a "lock-on point" - the location at which its IR seeker can acquire the target and lock on to it - and then guide itself to interception.
However, for the Umkhonto-R, it is reported that, after target detection and missile launch, the SAM would be steered towards the target by commands from the warship, activating its radar seeker when within range, locking on to, and then intercepting, the target.

Unlike the South African navy, the Brazilian Navy already operates radar-guided SAMs, namely the Italian Aspide, with a published range of greater than 15 km. Although the Brazilians rate this as a very good missile, they are, however, merely users of it - they have no mastery of radar-homing technology. Cooperation with South Africa in the Umkhonto-R programme would provide an opportunity for the Brazilians to gain this expertise.

However, there is a potential problem. The Umkhonto (both -IR and -R versions) is designed to use vertical launch systems (VLS) and not traditional trainable launchers.

In a VLS each missile is accomodated in its own silo, and this arrangement has many advantages over traditonal systems, with the result that VLS is being adopted nearly universally for new-build warships. But almost all of a VLS is accomodated below deck, not above deck as with traditional launchers. This requires that the ship have significant internal volume to accomodate the VLS. And Brazil's existing frigates and corvettes do not have the necessary internal volume to host VLS, meaning they cannot carry the Umkhonto. On the other hand, the Umkhonto-R could be fitted to Brazil's bigger ships - the aircraft carrier and four or five amphibious ships - which have plenty of internal volume available. So this is not an automatic deal-wrecker.

The Brazilian Navy has its own research and development agency, the Naval Research Institute (IPqM are its initials in Portuguese). The IPqM is based in Rio de Janeiro and is subordinated to the Navy Science, Technology, and Innovation Secretariat. The Institute has successfully developed weapons and electronic systems that are now in service with the Brazilian Navy, including electronic support measures (ESM), a tactical control system for warships, a monitoring and conmtrol system for ships' engines, a chaff launching system, and sea mines. Projects it is currently working on include an electronic countermeasures (ECM) system, radar absorbing materials, ceramic armour, and an inertial navigation system. The IPqM has close ties with Brazilian industry and would presumably be the lead Brazilian institution in a joint Umkhonto-R programme.

Edited by: Martin Zhuwakinyu

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/articl ... _id=144777

[Bolovo]

Sonho meu...

[thelmo rodrigues]

Marino, Lord Nauta, Walter Ciclone, Padilha...

Existe chance do Umkhonto na MB?

[WalterGaudério]

Ô povo que gosta de reclamar.
Primeiro reclamam que o SP não possui caças decentes, e a MB moderniza os A-4 para o padrão F-5M.
Depois dizem que não adianta caças sem AEW, e a MB providencia os AEW (tomara que se confirme):

Além do AEW, vai conseguir COD e Reabastecedor.
Então dizem que é sucata.
Não é não.
1) O S-2 é a única aeronave do tipo capaz de pousar no SP;
2) Não me venham com Helis, pois há muito eu escrevi que em comparação direta em um Estudo de Estado-Maior os helis perdiam em QUALQUER QUESITO para os aviões;
3) Células garantidas por 20 anos, remotorizadas, com eletrônica Embraer.
Quais países operam aviões como AEW a bordo?
EUA: sim;
França: sim, depois da lambança do comprimento de pista do CdG;
e......., quem mais?
Ô povo insatisfeito.
É o que se pode fazer agora.
Em um futuro PA, a situação será diferente, mas EU estou muito feliz com a notícia.
Teremos um Grupo de Batalha de PA, com caças, AEW, COD, Reabastecedor, Helis, novos escoltas de 6000 ton, mísseis ( ), etc.
Qual bovino vai se meter a besta?
Mesmo contra uma marinha mais moderna, quero ver encarar junto com os submarinos.
De novo: EU estou muito feliz com a notícia, que espero se confirme.

Primeiramente parabéns a ALIDE e todos os que fazem parte da MB...

Está sendo cumprido o programado. No que diz respeito a função. O que importa mesmo é um mínimo de higidez estrutural, e o recheio eletrônico que deverá ser totalmente integrado ao SICONTA a ser instalado no A-12.

Parabéns Marino.

BZ MB

[WalterGaudério]

Agora sera verdade que os tracker serao usados apenas por dez anos como diz a nota da Alide? Isto nao é muito pouco tempo nao?

Acho que pode ser estendido. 10 anos deve ser o prazo de garantia das reformas estruturais. Depois disso sine quae non ,as aeronaves devem ter suas células reconstruídas ou serem desativadas.

Mas se trata de ACHISMO meu. Vamos ver se se confirma. Já antevejo uns F/A-18C/D com as cores brasileiras...

Lembrem-se que tudo o estava sendo dito sobre a MB vem se confirmando...

[WalterGaudério]

Marino, Lord Nauta, Walter Ciclone, Padilha...

Existe chance do Umkhonto na MB?

Da minha parte(que estou fora da MB desde 200) o que posso te dizer é que tudo aquilo que os Comandantes Marino, Nauta e Padilha(este últim o já deve cheirar a óleo diesel de tantas comissões...) vem falando,... vem acontecendo De fato. Não no ritmo que nós gostaríamos. O que posso dizer tb é que o Aspide vai ter que pedir para sair em médio prazo. Talvez até fiquem nas Niterói, mas os novos escoltas de 6000t vão resceber coisa muito melhor, tabto de curto como de médio/longo alcance.

Por isso prestem atenção. No que diz respeito a números a MB talvez continue a não impressionar muito. Pero, em termos de qualidade algumas previsões vem surpreendendo por serem muito melhores do que até mesmo os maiores entusiastas da MB poderiam querer.

Qualidade é tudo.

[REGATEANO]

Agora sim POSSUIR um PA começa a ter sentido...

Aeronaves AEW e caças-bombardeiros "aptos" para guerra naval atual.
Começa a ter sentido o controle de aréa, interdição, etc...

Pela primeira vez desde o começo da operação de NAes pela MB, haverá "aviões" e "capazes" de defender a Amazônia Azul...

Agora a questão é: os A4BR combaterão sozinhos ou terão companhia do tipo F-18A/C em breve?

[WalterGaudério]

Agora sim POSSUIR um PA começa a ter sentido...

Aeronaves AEW e caças-bombardeiros "aptos" para guerra naval atual.
Começa a ter sentido o controle de aréa, interdição, etc...

Pela primeira vez desde o começo da operação de NAes pela MB, haverá "aviões" e "capazes" de defender a Amazônia Azul...

Agora a questão é: os A4BR combaterão sozinhos ou terão companhia do tipo F-18A/C em breve?

Não sei se serão F/A-18A/B/C/D, mas terão companhia.

[luis F. Silva]

Marino escreveu:

- o Brasil será o terceiro país do mundo a operar AEW asa-fixa a bordo de PA (antes da Inglaterra).

Quarto, depois da Inglaterra.Os britânicos tiveram o AEW Gannet.

Earlier trials had shown the effectiveness of airborne early warning aircraft. As a consequence the Gannet was modified to carry the APS 20F radar used in the trials. In this form, the Gannet AEW 3 first flew in August 1958 and entered service in March 1960. Gannet AEW 3's were deployed on carriers until December 1978 when the last unit, 849 squadron was disbanded

Role
The Gannet in its first form was shipborne ASW and strike aircraft. In this role it carried an array of weapons in the internal bomb bay as well as a variety of external stores. A retractable radome housed a Ferranti ASV radar used for the detection of ships and surfaced submarines. The Gannet AEW 3 has power assisted folding wings to allow better storage on aircraft carriers.

fonte:
http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.u ... annet.html

[henriquejr]

Alguém sabe qual o radar deverá ser instalado nos S-2 AEW?
Qual o melhor radar para esta função hoje disponível no mercado?
O Searchwater é melhor que o Erieye dos R-99A?

[Corsário01]

Senhores, o Erieye não será instalado no S2. Para isso seriam necessários meses e meses de testes pois seria o único avião a carrega-lo e com o risco de no fim, chegar-se a conclusão de que ele não seria adequado.
Depois, temos que saber se o Erieye aguentaria o tranco.

A MB deverá, na minha opinião instalar o Search, por que é fácil de instalar, não tem nenhum óbice para operar embarcado( sim senhores, operar embarcado não é para qualquer equipamento), e possui uma boa capacidade para AEW.

Agora é torcer para que seja anunciado o mais rápido possível, tanto o contrato dos S2 quanto o dos A4, para que a Aviação Naval comece a crescer.

Muito se critica a MB e sua AN, chegando a compara-la ao que era a Argentina em 82. É fato. Se olharmos apenas como leitores/entusiastas/foristas/bloguistas, até pode ser, mas quando se olha com serenidade, maturidade e CONHECIMENTO, vê-se que a MB e sua AN finalmente darão seus primeiros passos. Passos efetivos, pois decolar e aterrisar, apesar de ser algo complexo, não é tudo.

O que a MB e sua AN necessitam, é DOUTRINA OPERACIONAL e isso, nós temos que começar do ZERO.

Por isso é que peço aos senhores que analisem bem antes de sair metendo o malho na MB. Por culpa de vários governos, a mesma teve seu direito de voar negado. Não se começa uma vida operacional na AN do 50 ou do 100, tem que se começar do ZERO, e é isso que a MB fará.

Critiquem, mas sejam justos.

O lance do café foi no minimo ridiculo. Só quem já embarcou sabe como é cumprir o quarto "antenado". A Tripulação de um navio de guerra não está lá para fazer cruzeiro. Os caras "ralam" o tempo inteiro e beber café é uma necessidade do brasileiro. Eu nos embarques, bebia café o da inteiro.

Cobra-se muito por aqui e em outros fóruns, porém, a maioria das cobranças, creiam, são sem o menor fundamento.

Um Bravo Zulu para a MB e sua Aviação Naval, que como eu disse faz tempo, iria receber um increase quando o SP estivesse voltando e ele estará muito em breve.

PS: Não vejo a hora de poder publicar as mais de 1000 fotos que tenho guardadas de uma matéria sobre o SP que ainda não conclui.

[Oziris]

Arrebentou, Padilha.

[]'s

[silverstone2]

Umkhonto-R para a MB?

SA Hopes Brazil Will Join Another Missile Project

Picture by: Denel

HITTING THE MARKET: Test launch of an Umkhonto-IR

By: Keith Campbell
Published: 17 Oct 08 - 0:00
A Brazilian report has stated that South Africa's State-owned defence industrial group Denel is proposing that the Brazilian Navy cooperate with it in the development of the radar-guided version of Denel Dynamics' Umkhonto naval surface-to-air missile (SAM), designated Umkhonto-R. If so, this would parallel the current cooperation between Denel Dynamics and the Brazilian Air Force in the development of the A-Darter air-to-air missile. It is known that Denel is seeking to widen its cooperation with Brazil, with Unmanned Air Vehicles likely to be the next area of partnership. The Brazilian and South African Navies will start high-level staff talks late next month (November) and it is believed that this would provide the ideal opportunity for the South African Navy to lobby the Brazilians to join the Umkhonto-R programme.

The original, infrared-homing, version of the Umkhonto, designated Umkhonto-IR, is now in service with the South African and Finnish Navies and is being seriously considered by the Swedish Navy. Radar homing would give the missile greater range. While the slant (as distinct from vertical, or horizontal) range of the Umkhonto-IR is believed to be 14 km, that for the Umkhonto-R would, reportedly, be 20 km. (The Denel Dynamics public brochure for the Umkhonto-IR states "Range: 12 000 m", and gives a ceiling of 8 000 m.)

The South African Department of Defence is, it seems, providing funding for the Umkhonto-R project, but this is not likely to be enough to allow a purely national development of the programme within a reasonable time. (If a weapon system takes too long to develop, it becomes obsolete before it even enters service.) Hence Denel's, and South Africa's, reported desire for a partner.

The engagement sequence for the Umkhonto-IR is as follows: the warship detects a target on its acquisition radar and launches the missile against it; the SAM uses its on-board inertial navigation subsystem to fly itself to a "lock-on point" - the location at which its IR seeker can acquire the target and lock on to it - and then guide itself to interception.
However, for the Umkhonto-R, it is reported that, after target detection and missile launch, the SAM would be steered towards the target by commands from the warship, activating its radar seeker when within range, locking on to, and then intercepting, the target.

Unlike the South African navy, the Brazilian Navy already operates radar-guided SAMs, namely the Italian Aspide, with a published range of greater than 15 km. Although the Brazilians rate this as a very good missile, they are, however, merely users of it - they have no mastery of radar-homing technology. Cooperation with South Africa in the Umkhonto-R programme would provide an opportunity for the Brazilians to gain this expertise.

However, there is a potential problem. The Umkhonto (both -IR and -R versions) is designed to use vertical launch systems (VLS) and not traditional trainable launchers.

In a VLS each missile is accomodated in its own silo, and this arrangement has many advantages over traditonal systems, with the result that VLS is being adopted nearly universally for new-build warships. But almost all of a VLS is accomodated below deck, not above deck as with traditional launchers. This requires that the ship have significant internal volume to accomodate the VLS. And Brazil's existing frigates and corvettes do not have the necessary internal volume to host VLS, meaning they cannot carry the Umkhonto. On the other hand, the Umkhonto-R could be fitted to Brazil's bigger ships - the aircraft carrier and four or five amphibious ships - which have plenty of internal volume available. So this is not an automatic deal-wrecker.

The Brazilian Navy has its own research and development agency, the Naval Research Institute (IPqM are its initials in Portuguese). The IPqM is based in Rio de Janeiro and is subordinated to the Navy Science, Technology, and Innovation Secretariat. The Institute has successfully developed weapons and electronic systems that are now in service with the Brazilian Navy, including electronic support measures (ESM), a tactical control system for warships, a monitoring and conmtrol system for ships' engines, a chaff launching system, and sea mines. Projects it is currently working on include an electronic countermeasures (ECM) system, radar absorbing materials, ceramic armour, and an inertial navigation system. The IPqM has close ties with Brazilian industry and would presumably be the lead Brazilian institution in a joint Umkhonto-R programme.

Edited by: Martin Zhuwakinyu

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/articl ... _id=144777

Essa notícia, sim é fantástica. Ter equipamentos desenvolvidos no país (ou em parceria) é um verdadeiro cartão de visitas e creio que dê um verdadeiro upgrade no status da força.

[Junker]

[...]
Makwetla: South Africa and Brazil are set to work together to develop a new surface-to-air missile. Tell us about that.

Creamer: Brazilians and South Africans are already working together with an air-to-air missile, the A-Darter, and now they are looking to work together for a surface-to-air missile. This is known as the Umkhonto-R, the ‘r’ stands for radar.

Already we have got the Umkhonto-IR, the ‘IR’ stands for infra-red, and these are being used by the South African Navy and also the Finnish Navy, interestingly, and the Swedish Navy are said to be keen on getting them. What they are looking to developing now is the Umkhonto-R and this will enable the range of this missile to be further.

One wonders why they want to bring in the Brazilians, well, the reason is cash. These things cost quite a lot of money to develop and you have to develop them quite quickly otherwise they become obsolete before they hit the user point.

Both Denel Dynamics, which is already working with Brazil on the A-Darter scheme, and the South African Defence Force, which does provide finance to develop these systems are looking to getting in a partner. The Brazilians, of course, are already using a radar system, but it comes from Italy and they don’t have the know-how to make these, so their interest is to get the know-how and our interest is to get some of their cash as a partner.
[...]

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/articl ... _id=145395