F-35 News

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Re: F-35 News

#736 Mensagem por Penguin » Dom Set 21, 2008 6:57 pm

Sintra escreveu:
Santiago escreveu:[
Here are the facts:

-- The F-35 is a racehorse, not a "dog," as Wheeler/Sprey suggest. In
stealth combat configuration, the F-35 aerodynamically outperforms all
other combat-configured 4th generation aircraft in top-end speed,
loiter, subsonic acceleration
and combat radius. This allows
unprecedented "see/shoot first" and combat radius advantages
.


.
Completamente impossivel, mas não deixem a realidade interpor-se com um anuncio de marketing...
Porque :?: Foi uma resposta a uma alegacao de que o F-35 nao seria pareo para cacas de 4a G plus. Quem tem que ser convencido sao os clientes.

E tem mais. Foi a propria LM quem disse no nicio do programa que a performance do F-35 era F-16-class. Isso gerou muito ruido e especulacoes que o F-35 era similar em performance ao F-16. Recentemente o piloto da LM de testes ampliou o dito anteriormente e disse que ele se comportave de forma similar ao Raptor e agora a LM tras mais detalhes:

The F-35 has the most powerful engine ever installed in a fighter, with
thrust equivalent to both engines today in Eurofighter or F/A-18
aircraft. The conventional version of the F-35 has 9g capability and
matches the turn rates of the F-16 and F/A-18
. More importantly, in a
combat load, with all fuel, targeting sensor pods and weapons carried
internally, the F-35's aerodynamic performance far exceeds all legacy
aircraft equipped with a similar capability
.


De qq forma, so vamos conhecer sua verdadeira performace no futuro. Os potenciais clientes devem saber bem mais que o grande publico.

[]s




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Re: F-35 News

#737 Mensagem por soultrain » Dom Set 21, 2008 8:04 pm

Não Santiago,

A suposta simulação foi em dog-fight.

[[]]'s





"O que se percebe hoje é que os idiotas perderam a modéstia. E nós temos de ter tolerância e compreensão também com os idiotas, que são exatamente aqueles que escrevem para o esquecimento" :!:


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Re: F-35 News

#738 Mensagem por Penguin » Dom Set 21, 2008 8:31 pm

soultrain escreveu:Não Santiago,

A suposta simulação foi em dog-fight.

[[]]'s
Suposta mesmo, pois a simulacao foi frontalmente desmentida...
Concluo que alguem mentiu descaradamente e isso devera vir a tona nas proximas semanas ou meses.
Ele colocou o dele na reta e a outra versao eh anonima. Vamos ver.

(...) Recent claims that Russian fighters defeated F-35s in a Hawaii-based simulated combat exercise are untrue, according to Maj. Gen. Davis.

"The reports are completely false and misleading and have absolutely no basis in fact," Maj. Gen. Davis said. "The August 2008 Pacific Vision Wargame that has been referenced recently in the media did not even address air-to-air combat effectiveness. The F-35 is required to be able to effectively defeat current and projected air-to-air threats. All available information, at the highest classification, indicates that F-35 is effectively meeting these aggressive operational challenges."

The Pacific Vision Wargame was a table-top exercise designed to assess basing and force-structure vulnerabilities, and did not include air-to-air combat exercises or any comparisons of different aircraft platforms. (...)




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Re: F-35 News

#739 Mensagem por P44 » Qua Set 24, 2008 10:40 am

upssss
Australian Air Force jet purchase slammed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A United States think tank has declared the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter aircraft that Australia is set to buy is inferior to the Russian-made Flanker jets used by China and Indonesia.

The RAND Corporation's experts compared jets in a war game and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, Radio Australia's parent company, has obtained the results.

In bad news for the Australian Air Force, the report says the F-35 has inferior acceleration, climb, turn capacity and a lower top speed than Russian and Chinese fighters.

In short, it says the Joint Strike Fighter cannot climb and cannot run.

It says the US fighter which could outdo the Russian-made Flankers is the F-22 Raptor.

But the United States bans these from foreign sales.

The fighters' defenders argue it is not designed for close combat.

The RAND Corporation says a 'Plan B' is necessary and points out that if the F-35 is seen or has to engage an enemy at close range, then it will be no match for the Flankers.

Earlier this week federal Opposition MP Dennis Jensen called on the Australian Government to scrap plans to buy the F-35, saying they could leave the country vulnerable.

"The problem is, if the perceived level of our capability is not very high some nation might think that it's worth the risk to take us on for some reason or another given the perceived benefit," he said.

A spokesman for Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon says he is convinced the Joint Strike Fighter is the best aircraft available, but the minister has not released the air combat capability review which studied the options.
http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/s ... tab=latest




*Turn on the news and eat their lies*
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Re: F-35 News

#740 Mensagem por Penguin » Qua Set 24, 2008 4:45 pm

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 77,00.html

Joel Fitzgibbon sticks with joint fighters

September 25, 2008
AUSTRALIA remains committed to the Joint Strike Fighter aircraft despite reports the warplane has performed poorly in exercises against aircraft used by China and Russia.

Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon told ABC TV's Lateline program last night the JSF was still the right aircraft to ensure Australia's military superiority.

Despite the poor results of the recent Pacific Vision Wargames exercise in Hawaii, Mr Fitzgibbon said he was convinced the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter was the right aircraft for Australia.

The air force has ordered 100 of the futuristic jets at a cost of $16 billion.

"There's no doubt in my mind that if the JSF team deliver all the capability they have been promising, then the JSF will be just the right aircraft for Australia, and will deliver all the capability we need to maintain air combat superiority," he said.

"The questions are, will it be delivered, and if so, when will it be delivered and at what cost."

Mr Fitzgibbon said data from recent wargames, comparing the JSF with fighter jets used by China and Russia, had been "misrepresented".

"It wasn't an exercise about one platform against another," the minister said. "It was an exercise about other matters that I can't really discuss ... but it was unfair to interpret that exercise as one which sought to compare one aircraft against another."

Mr Fitzgibbon said he was yet to get the assessment of RAAF personnel and Defence officials who attended the exercise.

He said he had had two briefings from Defence, the first of which he "wasn't particularly impressed with", saying that it had left a number of questions unanswered.

Mr Fitzgibbon would not be drawn on the nature of the questions, except to say they had been raised by the media.

He said he would not be rushed into purchasing the JSF.

"What if it doesn't deliver initially all the capability, what if it delivers it very late and what if the costs escalate considerably?

"The Opposition ... wants me to run out and sign up to the JSF, six months at least before I have to, and before I've had guarantees on these unanswered questions," he said.

Mr Fitzgibbon said a decision would be made at the end of the coming white paper process.

Meanwhile, he said he had not even seen a "quick assessment report" into the role that Australian troops in Afghanistan may have had in the death of an Afghan governor.

"We don't really know what happened," he said. "There are a number of investigations under way ... and it's very important we get to the exact facts, and work out exactly what happened so we can ensure that in future we do better at avoiding unintended casualties."




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Re: F-35 News

#741 Mensagem por Penguin » Qua Set 24, 2008 9:27 pm

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... aptor.html

Imagem

DATE:23/09/08
SOURCE:Flight International
Wrangling over Raptor
By Siva Govindasamy

Would it surprise anyone if the favourite song right now in Japan's Ministry of Defence is The Rolling Stones' You can't always get what you want?

For the last two years, Japan's politicians and civil servants have been intensely lobbying their counterparts in the USA to secure information on the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor for their country's upcoming F-X competition. Their efforts have only led them to a brick wall.

Being one of Washington's closest allies in East Asia is not enough to get access to data on the highly coveted fifth-generation aircraft. Neither is the fact that it is one of the few countries in the world that could afford the $200 million price tag, or that an order from Tokyo would reduce the unit cost of each aircraft for the USA and keep the production line open for Lockheed.

Congress's Obey Amendment prohibits the sale of the F-22 to any foreign government due to the level of technology incorporated into the fighter, and that is unlikely to change in the near term. In 2007, the US State Department said: "US law prohibits the US from selling the F-22. The United States is committed to working with Japan as Japan chooses its future fighter aircraft, to find the appropriate capabilities for a strong and credible alliance."

Japan has been indefinitely delaying the start of its F-X competition while it continues to lobby the USA. However, it desperately needs at least 50 aircraft to replace its ageing McDonnell Douglas F-4s and prevent a decline in its air capability. If it does not make a move soon, the decision could be catastrophic. Yet the impasse continues.

Tokyo has also sought information on the Lockheed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and F-15, France's Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Ostensibly, it will evaluate all the options equally. In reality, if the USA releases the F-22, that is what it will buy. "You must understand their thinking. The Japanese want the best fighter and that, in their mind, is the F-22. It does not matter if the F-22 is actually suitable for Japan, and there is a separate debate about that issue," says a Tokyo-based observer.


Given that the sale of fighters is a foreign policy tool for the USA, the Japanese view the refusal as a major snub. "The Americans say Japan is an important partner and want it to take on additional responsibility for regional security. Yet the Japanese feel that they are not given the tools to do the job. That irks them, especially as they feel that they have been good friends and allies," adds a second observer.

Some point out that the F-22, which is superior to almost any fighter in service, may be exactly what Japan needs as a deterrent against a rapidly modernising Chinese air force and the threat of a missile attack from an unstable North Korea.

"It's so capable that policymakers aren't inclined to export it, even to trusted allies like Japan," Loren Thompson, an analyst with the US-based Lexington Institute, points out in a research paper.

"But does that really make sense if Raptor is the aircraft best suited to protecting the Japanese home islands against cruise missile attack or pre-empting a ballistic missile launch by North Korea?"

Lockheed appears to be keen on a sale as that would allow it to keep the production line open beyond 2011, when the US air force's last F-22 will roll out if there are no further orders.

"The company has over 3,000 employees working on the Raptor, and many more are employed by subcontractors like Pratt & Whitney and Boeing. This is crucial for the American aerospace industry," says a source close to the company.

Another source adds: "Exporting the F-22 would help Lockheed to lower the cost of each aircraft, including those for the USA, and keep the price even lower if there are further orders from the Pentagon."

An option is to develop an export version of the F-22 for Japan, reducing its capabilities and putting in place measures to prevent unauthorised leaks of technology.

But this would take years to develop and cost several billion dollars, making it "prohibitively expensive" for any would-be foreign buyer, says Lt Gen Jeffrey Kohler, head of the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency, responsible for government-to-government arms sales. "This aircraft was built to give us an edge way into the future, and that's why it's not exportable," he adds.

ELECTIONS

So where does that leave Japan? It will wait until after the US presidential and congressional elections in November, and perhaps until its own general elections, due before September next year. With a new administration and fresh mandates in both countries, it should be easier to move on, say observers.

If the F-22 is not available, the next likeliest option is the F-35, which the USA has indicated that it would be willing to sell. While not as advanced as the F-22, the JSF has stealth technology as well. There are also indications that Lockheed could allow Japanese industry to licence-produce the aircraft.

However, the other JSF partners may not agree to Japan, which has not joined the programme, jumping the queue and getting the fighter ahead of them around 2015. Even if they do agree, there are indications that the F-35 could be delayed and that would mean that Japan gets the fighter later than expected.

In that case, Tokyo could go for one of the other fighters on the table. The F/A-18E/F would be a strong contender, especially since Australia has ordered the aircraft as a stop-gap before the delivery of its F-35s.

Japan's airforce, however, already operates the F-15C-based F-15J and a newer version of the fighter would make the integration easier, especially if this is an interim order before the delivery of the F-35.

Many believe that US manufacturers will continue to monopolise the Japanese market, but others say that European fighters could stand a chance in the current climate.

In a report for the US Congress, Christopher Bolkcom and Emma Chanlett-Avery of the Congressional Research Service point out: "Purchasing European aircraftwould allow Japan to establish a second source of technology, and thus some autonomy from the United States, and European governments would be expected to offer very attractive terms to penetrate the heretofore closed Japanese market."

If it comes to that, the Typhoon is the likelier option and Eurofighter officials have been lobbying the Japanese over the last year. Alan Garwood, director of business development at BAE Systems, a partner in the Eurofighter programme, said at the Farnborough air show that Japan "likes the look" of the aircraft.

"The Typhoon is almost as capable the big difference is that the F-22 is stealthy," he added. Crucially, the consortium is willing to share more of its technology than the USA would with the F-22.

Others, however, believe that US and Japanese security interests are so intertwined that Tokyo is unlikely to buy anything but US military hardware. "Who would the Japanese work with if there was a conflict in the region? It is certainly not the Europeans. The Americans are their closest allies, and it makes little sense to buy aircraft that are unable to operate in tandem with the USAF," says an observer.

While it decides, the MoD is seeking funds to speed up its F-15 upgrade programme and extend the life of its F-4s to prevent a drop in Japan's air capability. It is also continuing the studies on the ATD-X programme to develop an indigenous stealth fighter.

However, as the observer points out, this is not what Japan wants. "The ATD-X programme is unlikely to move into the development stage as it would simply be too expensive and take too long. At the end of the day, Japan wants the F-22.

If Washington says no, it will move on to something else and that is likely to be another American fighter," he adds. "That decision, though, could have a permanent impact on bilateral relations. The talks about the F-22 over the next few months could also be a discussion about the future of the US-Japan security relationship."




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Re: F-35 News

#742 Mensagem por Penguin » Qua Set 24, 2008 9:38 pm

Fogo amigo?


It's A Conspiracy!
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 9/24/2008 7:56 AM CDT

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... e918e9e909

Fortunately I paid more attention to my French than to math in school, with the happy result that I can insult rapacious Parisian cabbies and read commentaries from the Dedefensa site, run by Belgian-based commentator and Euro-strategy wonk Philippe Grasset.

To summarize two recent pieces: Grasset thinks that the JSF leadership's dramatic public reaction to criticism reflects insecurity. In one piece - "a conspiracy by the USAF"- he notes the fact that the USAF leadership did not talk much about fighters at the Air Force Assocation meeting last week (to which I would add the observation that there was no JSF press brief at AFA, for the first time in a decade). But, Grasset notes, third-party commentators Rebecca Grant and Loren Thompson did present a paper, arguing strongly for more F-22s and expressing lukewarm support for JSF.

Grasset sees this as a signal to the troops: the moment that Defense Secretary Robert Gates and his fiercely pro-JSF deputy Gordon England leave office, the USAF will campaign (on the grounds of industrial base, the JSF being unproven, and so on) for more F-22s, even if that causes JSF to slip.

In a companion piece - "a plot against the JSF"- Grasset summarizes the criticisms leveled against the fighter and the recent reaction, adding his observation that "one walks on eggs" around program manager Maj Gen Charles Davis these days. However, Grasset points out, none of these reports has been as harmful as a negative GAO report - so why the heavy-duty reaction? "We don't think that this sensitivity is the result of the various public attacks," Grasset suggests. "Rather, it's a chance to express sensitivity that has a different cause."

Again, Grasset diagnoses this as the result of a situation in which the F-35 is competing with the USAF's favorite, the F-22, for funding. The result is that both Davis and Lockheed Martin program manager Tom Burbage are isolated within their own organizations - and trying to get more support - "from friends who aren't supporting them enough - or who support them like a rope supports the hanged man."




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Re: F-35 News

#743 Mensagem por Sintra » Qua Set 24, 2008 9:48 pm

O Congresso Norte Americano acabou de cortar fundos para a aquisição de 2 F-35´s para o próximo ano, um para a USAF e outro para a US Navy, de 16 planeados, vão ser 14.




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Re: F-35 News

#744 Mensagem por Plinio Jr » Qua Set 24, 2008 9:49 pm

Existe uma pressão muito grande na Austrália e no Japão pela liberação do F-22s p/ estes páises...e quem paga o pato é o F-35... :!:




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Re: F-35 News

#745 Mensagem por Carlos Lima » Qua Set 24, 2008 9:54 pm

Cada país tem o F-X que merece :mrgreen:

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Re: F-35 News

#746 Mensagem por Penguin » Qua Set 24, 2008 9:59 pm

Plinio Jr escreveu:Existe uma pressão muito grande na Austrália e no Japão pela liberação do F-22s p/ estes páises...e quem paga o pato é o F-35... :!:
A pressao eh grande tb dentro dos EUA/USAF para mais F-22.




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Re: F-35 News

#747 Mensagem por PRick » Qua Set 24, 2008 10:05 pm

Mas isso era esperado, desde que, o plano mirabolante de desenvolver duas aeronaves furtivas tomou corpo, agora que a crise aperta, e vai faltar grana para os gastos públicos, vão ter que começar a cortar em algum lugar. :wink:

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Re: F-35 News

#748 Mensagem por Carlos Lima » Qua Set 24, 2008 10:07 pm

Santiago escreveu:
Plinio Jr escreveu:Existe uma pressão muito grande na Austrália e no Japão pela liberação do F-22s p/ estes páises...e quem paga o pato é o F-35... :!:
A pressao eh grande tb dentro dos EUA/USAF para mais F-22.
Sim, porque logo logo (2010) eles entregam o último dos 183 e a linha para de produzir certos componentes em 2009. Então a idéia é que já que o F-35 'não existe', que atrase para que verbas sejam destinadas para o F-22.

Eu fico imaginando o pessoal com as fotos da esquadra russa e os Tu-160 fazendo visita ao Chavez sendo entregues para um mundo de gente nos corredores do Lobby do pentágono junto com um chaveiro dizendo...

"- Em breve, perto de você!" :mrgreen:

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Re: F-35 News

#749 Mensagem por Bourne » Qua Set 24, 2008 10:23 pm

O custo de salvar os bancos vai ser salgado, como também implementar um pacote fiscal para tentar reativar a economia, além da redução da arrecadação de impostos pelo menor ou inexistente crescimento econômico. Então, começar a cortar as verbas para gastos militares é um caminho esperado, uma das primeiras vitimas é o F-35. Por outro lado, os F-22 garantem a superioridade aérea dos EUA contra qualquer ameaça, e o trabalho que os F-35 fariam, pode ser feito provisoriamente por outros caças




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Re: F-35 News

#750 Mensagem por Plinio Jr » Qui Set 25, 2008 9:52 am

cb_lima escreveu:
Santiago escreveu: A pressao eh grande tb dentro dos EUA/USAF para mais F-22.
Sim, porque logo logo (2010) eles entregam o último dos 183 e a linha para de produzir certos componentes em 2009. Então a idéia é que já que o F-35 'não existe', que atrase para que verbas sejam destinadas para o F-22.

Eu fico imaginando o pessoal com as fotos da esquadra russa e os Tu-160 fazendo visita ao Chavez sendo entregues para um mundo de gente nos corredores do Lobby do pentágono junto com um chaveiro dizendo...

"- Em breve, perto de você!" :mrgreen:

[]s
CB_Lima
Pensando friamente, os EUA tem em operação na USAF e ANG centenas de F-15A/Cs que necessitam de substituição, 183 F-22s é muito pouco e com os atrasos no programa F-35s, algo natural vide os demais, a pressão interna por F-22s é algo igualmente natural.




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