DATE:03/07/08
SOURCE:Flight International
Foreign Service: F-35 tackles pricing issue for foreign buyers
By Stephen Trimble
Buying F-35 Joint Strike Fighters is no longer a purely academic question for potential foreign buyers. The UK and the Netherlands signed orders earlier this year for flight test aircraft, and Italy is expected to follow soon.
As the foreign customers start lining up, a whole new clarity is being brought to the issue of the F-35's price tag.
The US government established an international partnership with a business case partly based on the F-35's supposed affordability, advertising a price tag of roughly $60 million per aircraft, depending on the model.
Now, facing both industrial and competitive pressures, Lockheed Martin is seeking a novel approach to fix the F-35 price for international customers that sign multi-year deals at a level below the current market rate.
The $60 million figure is an average price calculated over the life of the programme's estimated 3,000-aircraft production run. The cost to buy a single aircraft this year could be significantly higher.
For example, the US Navy has asked for more than $1.7 billion to acquire eight low-rate initial production aircraft in fiscal year 2009. That figure equates to slightly more than $215 million per aircraft, a potentially unacceptable figure for most foreign partners to buy in quantity.
The price tag is expect to fall dramatically as annual production rises from as many as 19 aircraft in FY2009 to more than 200 a year by FY2016. The pace of the price drop may still prove too slow for potential customers, so Lockheed is seeking approval for a radically different pricing scheme.
Lockheed Martin chief executive Bob Stevens told the Sanford Bernstein investor conference in May: "It is not too early in the programme to start talking about solidifying the production buys because as we do that, I think we all know that when you aggregate demand and you phase that demand in an optimal way, you can get the best opportunity to get the supply chain executing in a fashion that is low cost and high quality.
"And you will offer affordability in these jets that will be the very best buy as a value-for-money spend, when we can get the demand phased properly, and that's the phase of the programme we're entering now."
Multi-year deal
Lockheed's proposal involves setting the aircraft unit cost at an average rate across a multi-year procurement deal, saving customers perhaps tens of millions of dollars on the higher-priced aircraft bought in the first years of the deal.
Lockheed is still trying to steer the deal pass two obstacles: securing legal authority to sign such a multi-year deal and financing the upfront costs.
If the proposal fails in Congress or in the Pentagon, the Lockheed-led programme faces the challenge of persuading customers to buy early, even at higher prices. Failing to secure enough international orders in the early phases of the programme could be damaging.
The longer it takes to achieve full rate production, the slower prices will decline, creating a circular effect with customers delaying purchases to wait for better deals later.
The critical period for completing deals in the early years of production is from 2012 to 2016.
Hundreds of aircraft could be sold to both the international partners and non-affiliated governments, such as Japan, as long as the pricing meets expectations and the programme avoids critical problems in flight test or production ramp-up.
Meanwhile, the JSF partners continue to refine their long-term plans, with the number of F-35s wanted rising in some countries and falling in others. Canada, for example, wants to cut 15 aircraft from its planned purchase, but Italy is likely to consider adding more.
The JSF international programme is quickly spreading beyond the original eight-nation partnership. Israel, one of two security co-operation participants, has issued a letter of request one year in advance of posting a formal request for proposals for up to 75 F-35s.
Japan is actively considering the F-35 for its F-X fighter programme, sending an assessment to Lockheed's factory at Fort Worth, Texas.
JSF foreign sales have also become an urgent issue because competitors have stepped up the pressure, suspecting that the affordability issue or another production delay will force Lockheed's first stealth fighter export out of some markets.
© Lockheed Martin
The F-35's advertised $60 million price tag is an average price calculated over the life of the programme's estimated 3,000-aircraft production run
Saab is on the attack with the JAS39 Gripen in Norway, forcing Lockheed to unveil an unusual price guarantee for the F-35 in 2016. Boeing continues to push the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, not only as an alternative to the carrier-based F-35C for the US Navy, but also as an F-35 replacement in foreign markets that require an immediate replacement.
Australia
Australia's future regarding the JSF became less than clear when a new Labor government was elected late last year. The new government inherited numerous defence purchases and plans, many of which it has since re-examined and in some cases cancelled.
In February the government launched a review of Australia's future air combat capability requirements to 2045, which included an order for 24 Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornets and plans to acquire up to 100 JSFs for delivery from 2013. A decision on the latter is expected late this year.
The first part of the review focused on requirements through to 2015 and included the feasibility of retaining Australia's ageing General Dynamics F-111s rather than acquiring the Super Hornets that were ordered by the previous government to replace the F-111s and as a stopgap before the first JSFs are delivered.
In March the government decided to retain the Super Hornet order.
The second part of the review, which focused on requirements through to 2045, including a possible JSF purchase and assessing alternatives such as the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor, was completed and presented to the government in late April, but it has yet to be made public.
Part two is "currently under consideration", says the Australian government. "The findings and recommendations of the Air Combat Capability Review will feed into and inform the wider-reaching Force Structure Review being conducted as part of the defence white paper process."
The new defence white paper is not due for consideration by the government until December.
Although the new government is so far non-committal on the JSF, Royal Australian Air Force chiefs have long supported the type and many believe the Air Combat Capability Review recommends that the JSF is the best next-generation fighter for the country.
Italy
Two major decisions are in store this year for Italy, the number three partner in the JSF programme, which invested $1 billion in the system development and demonstration (SDD) phase.
Italy's first decision - to buy the country's first two F-35s to take part in the flight-test phase - has been on hold for up to a year.
The political crisis that swept the previous government from power has delayed Italy's decision until next year, but Lockheed confirms it is protecting production slots for Italy as the political situation stabilises.
Now, with the extreme left-wing faction marginalised in the Italian parliament, the country's first F-35 order and participation in the test phase is expected to be approved by July 2009.
Italy is to procure two early production models of the F-35A, starting with the first order in the lot 3 low-rate initial production contract. The second aircraft will be ordered from the LRIP lot 4 batch.
Both aircraft are expected to be F-35As, even though Italy intends to eventually have a mix of conventional and short take-off vertical landing (STOVL) aircraft.
© Lockheed Martin
Early achievement of full-rate production is vital for keeping costs down for the F-35
Italy's navy has a requirement for 22 F-35Bs, and the air force wants a mix of F-35Bs and F-35As to replace Panavia Tornados and AMX strike and attack aircraft. The programme's overall restructuring in 2004 prompted Italy to opt for two CTOL aircraft, however.
Italy must also confirm its decision to open the final assembly and checkout line for the Italian and Dutch F-35. If approved, the line would be at the former Cameri air force base.
Share-out of the financing package still has to be decided between Italy's ministries of defence and economic development, and the initial investment by the Italian companies involved in the production and support programme is not frozen.
A dramatic change in previous decisions is unlikely, however.
The programme's industrial and occupational benefits are clear to most of Italy's political forces, as well as the need to safeguard the country's status as a reliable partner in major international programmes, perhaps seeking to offset the harm to Italy's reputation caused by its withdrawal from the Airbus A400M programme.
It also appears likely the number of F-35s ordered by Italy will rise from the current 131, including 109 F-35A/Bs for the air force and 22 F-35Bs for the navy. The scale of such an increase and the final quantities of the two versions are still to be decided.
© Lockheed Martin
Italy intends to eventually have a mix of conventional and STOVL F-35s
Meanwhile, Alenia Aeronautica is stepping up its efforts at the Foggia plants, where it is producing components for LRIP lot 2 aircraft.
In the LRIP lot 3 phase, Alenia's role will expand to add the central wing box, then the external wing panel with LRIP lot 4 and the complete wing with LRIP lot 6. This later production batch will include the first series-production Italian aircraft - up to six of the fully operational Block 3 configuration.
Israel
Although it has had only a minor role in the JSF programme to date, Israel is poised to become the first international partner to order the aircraft in significant quantities.
The Israeli air force issued a letter of request in May and is expected to release a request for proposals in the second quarter of 2009.
Israel's official request seeks information on the purchase of at least 25 basic F-35As. Lockheed sources confirmed the letter may also include an option to buy 50 STOVL F-35Bs.
This option would be exercised only after the performance of the F-35B can be compared to the unit price. Deliveries of the first F-35s to the Israeli air force are scheduled in 2013 to 2014.
A special liaison office in Washington is coordinating the efforts of the Israel's air force and defence and aerospace industries to gain more influence on the final configuration of the F-35s that Israel will purchase.
Despite the fact that the Israeli defence industries are not fully integrated into the programme, some of them are already working on dedicated systems for the F-35.
Israel Military Industries is developing internally carried, high-impact bombs for the F-35. The Israeli air force wants to increase the fighter's operational radius by adding specially designed external fuel tanks, and Israel Aerospace Industries and Cyclone Aviation are already designing the tanks. Cyclone offers tanks that will be carried on the wing hardpoints, and IAI is offering specially designed conformal tanks.
According to Israeli sources, the request for proposals that will be issued in 2009 will include a formal request to instal Israeli developed systems in the F-35. "We don't expect any objections to installing Israeli weapon systems on the air force's F-35s," one of the sources said in June. "But we may encounter problems when we express our wish to install electronic warfare systems on the aircraft."
In February 2002, Israel joined the JSF program as a security co-operation programme participant. This relatively low status gave the country's air force limited access to some of the programme's data, but allowed it no influence in the design process. Even Israel's SCP role was suspended for several months in 2005 because of an unrelated dispute between the Israeli and US governments over export control security.
Additional reporting by Emma Kelly, Pino Modola and Arie Egozi contributed to this article
F-35 News
Moderadores: Glauber Prestes, Conselho de Moderação
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Re: F-35 News
Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Carlo M. Cipolla
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Re: F-35 News
A giant leap: F-35 readies for production ramp-up
By Stephen Trimble
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... mp-up.html
Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Carlo M. Cipolla
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soultrain
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Re: F-35 News
Zangam-se as comadres....
Another Food Fight Between Boeing and the Air Force
DT buddy Steve Trimble scored a great scoop at the Farnborough air show this week. He reports:
Boeing's global marketing campaign for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet has drawn the public wrath of the senior U.S. military official leading the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
U.S. Air Force Lt Gen Charles Davis, speaking exclusively to Flight International, has accused Boeing of "spreading lies and half-truths" about the F-35 to bolster its case for selling the F/A-18E/F.
"That's just pissing us off," Davis says. "If Boeing has to say something negative about JSF to sell their aircraft, that tells me there is something wrong with their aircraft."
Davis specifically faults Boeing executives for predicting further cost overruns and delays for the F-35 program. By comparison, Davis says, he has heard BAE Systems make no such predictions in their efforts to sell the Eurofighter Typhoon.
However, it was pointed out to Davis that Boeing had delivered hundreds of F/A-18E/Fs on time and on budget, while the JSF program has reported a 50 percent cost increase and an at least 18-month delay during the first seven years of development.
Davis acknowledges the F-35's record, but refuses to back down in his criticism of Boeing.
He says the F-35's development challenges cannot be compared with the F/A-18E/F. The Super Hornet is based on an existing airframe, he says, and reuses the avionics suite from the original aircraft.
"That's the baseline they're measured against. How hard is that?" Davis asks.
The F-35 and F/A-18E/F are in competition in several countries, and not least in the USA, where Navy officials continue to debate the need for extending Super Hornet purchases if the JSF is further delayed.
Boeing executives were not immediately aware of the news articles that provoked the Davis outburst.
"We don't know much about JSF other than what we read in the paper," says Jim Albaugh, president of Boeing Integrated Defense Systems.
Tom Bell, a Boeing business development official, says he is unaware of the specific comments that triggered Davis' outburst, and so could not give a direct response.
Bell points out that two JSF development partners - Australia and Denmark - have already acquired or are considering acquiring F/A-18E/Fs instead.
"People with greater insight [into the F-35 program] than I are looking at the offerings available," Bell says. "Let people draw their own conclusions about why."
So is it worse when the Air Force is pissed at Boeing or the other way around like it has been during the tanker protest furor? Or is this just the kind of "healthy tension" we need between these two legs of the Iron Triangle? Stay tuned.
(Photo: General Davis demonstrates what he'd like to do to those at Boeing who are badmouthing the JSF.)
(Gouge: NC)
-- Ward
July 18, 2008 10:17 AM
Another Food Fight Between Boeing and the Air Force
DT buddy Steve Trimble scored a great scoop at the Farnborough air show this week. He reports:
Boeing's global marketing campaign for the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet has drawn the public wrath of the senior U.S. military official leading the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
U.S. Air Force Lt Gen Charles Davis, speaking exclusively to Flight International, has accused Boeing of "spreading lies and half-truths" about the F-35 to bolster its case for selling the F/A-18E/F.
"That's just pissing us off," Davis says. "If Boeing has to say something negative about JSF to sell their aircraft, that tells me there is something wrong with their aircraft."
Davis specifically faults Boeing executives for predicting further cost overruns and delays for the F-35 program. By comparison, Davis says, he has heard BAE Systems make no such predictions in their efforts to sell the Eurofighter Typhoon.
However, it was pointed out to Davis that Boeing had delivered hundreds of F/A-18E/Fs on time and on budget, while the JSF program has reported a 50 percent cost increase and an at least 18-month delay during the first seven years of development.
Davis acknowledges the F-35's record, but refuses to back down in his criticism of Boeing.
He says the F-35's development challenges cannot be compared with the F/A-18E/F. The Super Hornet is based on an existing airframe, he says, and reuses the avionics suite from the original aircraft.
"That's the baseline they're measured against. How hard is that?" Davis asks.
The F-35 and F/A-18E/F are in competition in several countries, and not least in the USA, where Navy officials continue to debate the need for extending Super Hornet purchases if the JSF is further delayed.
Boeing executives were not immediately aware of the news articles that provoked the Davis outburst.
"We don't know much about JSF other than what we read in the paper," says Jim Albaugh, president of Boeing Integrated Defense Systems.
Tom Bell, a Boeing business development official, says he is unaware of the specific comments that triggered Davis' outburst, and so could not give a direct response.
Bell points out that two JSF development partners - Australia and Denmark - have already acquired or are considering acquiring F/A-18E/Fs instead.
"People with greater insight [into the F-35 program] than I are looking at the offerings available," Bell says. "Let people draw their own conclusions about why."
So is it worse when the Air Force is pissed at Boeing or the other way around like it has been during the tanker protest furor? Or is this just the kind of "healthy tension" we need between these two legs of the Iron Triangle? Stay tuned.
(Photo: General Davis demonstrates what he'd like to do to those at Boeing who are badmouthing the JSF.)
(Gouge: NC)
-- Ward
July 18, 2008 10:17 AM
"O que se percebe hoje é que os idiotas perderam a modéstia. E nós temos de ter tolerância e compreensão também com os idiotas, que são exatamente aqueles que escrevem para o esquecimento"
NJ
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Plinio Jr
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Re: F-35 News
Dizem nos bastidores que a US Navy está analisando a compra de outro lote de 140 F-18E/F para substituir diversos vetores cansados, em especial a frota de F-18A/C, pois não aguentariam esperar o fornecimento de F-35s até lá... 
¨Os políticos e as fraldas devem ser mudados frequentemente e pela mesma razão ¨- Eça de Queiroz
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Re: F-35 News
Production of Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 Lightning II fighter jet may be more than doubled to more than 100 per year thanks to a funding increase the Pentagon approved for Air Force budgets starting in 2010, Gen. Norton Schwartz said. Schwartz, nominated to be the service’s chief of staff, disclosed during his confirmation hearing Tuesday before the Senate Armed Services Committee that the Pentagon has added $5 billion annually for aircraft and weapons to its six-year plan. "Our priority is to bring F-35s into the Air Force as quickly as possible," Schwartz said in written answers to questions posed by the committee. The money "will in part be used to increase annual F-35 production rate," he wrote. Boosting F-35 production to as high as 110 per year from 48 "is the major strategy" for addressing an anticipated shortfall in fighters as the F-16 is retired, Schwartz said. — Bloomberg News
Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Carlo M. Cipolla
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Bender
Re: F-35 News
A-29
deschamps
Eu também não acredito,mas voce há de concordar que os caras estão fazendo um esforço terrível nunca antes visto
Abraços.
SoultrainDou especial atenção ao grifo. É o secretário de defesa holandês confirmando o que o Sintra (ou foi o Soultrain?) sempre afirmou: simplesmente não se sabe quanto vai custar cada F-35.
Acreditamos sim!Bom,
Fomos os dois, é um facto publico, só aqui no DB é que não acreditaram.
[[]]'s
deschamps
por mais que queira...não vejo chance de o F35 aqui no Brasil
Eu também não acredito,mas voce há de concordar que os caras estão fazendo um esforço terrível nunca antes visto
Abraços.
-
PRick
Re: F-35 News
Enquanto isso no Brasil, tem gente que acredita piamente, na LockMartin e no Governo dos EUA. E a tal história dos 70 milhões, e outras...soultrain escreveu:Zangam-se as comadres....
Another Food Fight Between Boeing and the Air Force
DT buddy Steve Trimble scored a great scoop at the Farnborough air show this week. He reports:
(Gouge: NC)
![8-]](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif "Cool"){kind=icon}
[ ]´s
Re: F-35 News
verdade,...est]ao fazendo de tudo...mais mesmo assim não vai dar.Bender escreveu:A-29
SoultrainDou especial atenção ao grifo. É o secretário de defesa holandês confirmando o que o Sintra (ou foi o Soultrain?) sempre afirmou: simplesmente não se sabe quanto vai custar cada F-35.
Acreditamos sim!Bom,
Fomos os dois, é um facto publico, só aqui no DB é que não acreditaram.
[[]]'s
deschamps
por mais que queira...não vejo chance de o F35 aqui no Brasil
Eu também não acredito,mas voce há de concordar que os caras estão fazendo um esforço terrível nunca antes visto
Abraços.
apesar de não querer...vai dar RAFALE
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Re: F-35 News
JSF Office Makes Buyers an Offer They Cannot Refuse
Aug 1, 2008
Bill Sweetman
Within a year, Lockheed Martin’s Joint Strike Fighter team expects to make firm offers to its eight partner nations: the U.K., Italy, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark and Turkey. In exchange for a commitment by all eight to aircraft numbers and delivery dates, they will get a firm price, several years before that would normally be possible under U.S. procurement rules.
Commonality has diminished during the development of JSF. The F-35C has a takeoff weight of 70,000 lb.—almost as heavy as an F-14D—and a 668-sq.-ft. wing.Credit: LOCKHEED MARTIN CONCEPT
The move is necessary because competitors are offering fixed prices, and because some partners need many of their aircraft from early production batches, which normally carry a high price.
Those commitments will be backed up by sanctions. “Partners who do not buy according to the program of record will cover the costs incurred by other partners,” says the Program Office director, Maj. Gen. Charles Davis.
Davis says the final price is the subject of intense discussions within the team, but numbers in the $58-63-million realm—flyaway prices in current dollars—have been mentioned. Given that total acquisition unit costs in export sales tend to be about twice the flyaway cost, this places the JSF unit cost close to that of Typhoon.
The partners should be clear about what they are getting for the money. At the inception of the JSF program, in 1995, then-project director George Muellner described the aircraft as “70% air-to-ground, 30% air-to-air.”
The F-35 is not optimized for air-to-air combat. JSF is neither fast nor agile enough to choose whether to shoot or scoot against an adversary like the Su-30. It either carries a maximum of four AIM-120 missiles—the capability is little publicized, although Davis confirms that it will be part of the systems development and demonstration program—or operates with compromised stealth. (A reduced-signature pylon for the outboard wing stations, designed to carry AIM-9X or Asraam missiles, is being developed.) Success in air combat depends on stealth, but although the F-35 should detect targets at long range before being detected, it will have to close to shorter distances to achieve an acceptable kill probability with the AIM-120C7, particularly against an agile target using jamming and decoys. The U.S. acknowledged this by developing the AIM-120D, designed to be compatible with new active electronically scanned array radars, but it will not be available for export in the foreseeable future.
Moreover, there is no longer any serious doubt that not all F-35s will be equal in stealth. Asked earlier this year to confirm that all would have the same signatures, George Standridge, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for business development, responded: “That is a matter for the U.S. government. I cannot and will not answer that question.”
The partner countries so far show signs of being able to live with the aircraft’s performance and the stealth capabilities they have been offered. The main exceptions are the U.K. and Italy, which will use the Typhoon as their primary air-to-air fighter.
Another major advantage of the JSF is the potential for spreading through-life upgrade and support costs over a large fleet of aircraft. This depends, however, on keeping numbers at their planned level, including 730 aircraft for partner nations, which means overcoming three obstacles.
The first is direct competition. Norway and Denmark are evaluating the JSF against other aircraft, mainly Saab’s Gripen Next Generation (NG). In May, the Netherlands government, under pressure from its Labor coalition partner, agreed to carry out a final assessment of other aircraft, including Gripen NG, Typhoon and Rafale, before making a commitment. Canada also intends to conduct a competition.
The second is budget concerns in the U.K. and Italy, where JSF procurement will be weighed against the final batch of Typhoon fighters unless money can be found for both types.
Doors, serrated and edge-treated to maintain stealth, open so the F-35B’s powered lift system can operate.Credit: LOCKHEED MARTIN
Third, U.S. numbers are shaky. Senior Air Force officers have stated that the service can afford only 48 JSFs per year rather than the 80 that the current program envisions, unless it gets more topline funding in the defense budget. The Navy and Marine Corps told the Government Accountability Office that they expect to buy 35 JSFs per year, versus 50 in the current plan. Davis says the JSF office “is waiting for the POM (program objective memorandum) process to see those numbers get adjusted.”
Technical risk is another factor. Later this year, the project office is expected to confirm a slip of 9-12 months in the completion of operational testing, with a consequent increase in development costs.
Davis minimizes its impact, saying it reflects the fact that early low-rate initial production (LRIP) batches have been reduced in size (12 aircraft on contract in 2008, for instance, versus 18 envisioned earlier), and observing that it is “at the discretion of the combatant commander” when to declare initial operational capability. Davis makes much of the flight of the first F-35B, on June 11, within the schedule planned in August 2006. “People said the program couldn’t make it, but this shows that we’re capable of performing to schedule.”
More important, though, is the Stovl (short takeoff and vertical landing) testing of the F-35B, which is, by Davis’s count, three months behind schedule. In the first quarter of 2009, the F-35B will start a series of 20 sorties at Fort Worth, Tex., in which the jet progressively slows down, leading to a slow landing. BF-1 will then be ferried to the Navy’s flight-test center at Patuxent River, Md., for tests leading to a vertical landing. The timescale for that is not certain, but a vertical landing doesn’t look likely until well into the second quarter.
The U.K. has voiced concerns about vertical landings. Added to F-35B testing under a U.K. initiative is a new flight mode, shipboard rolling vertical landing (SRVL), in which the aircraft approaches the ship with about 60 kt. airspeed and 25 kt. wind-over-deck—the maximum design speed of the Royal Navy’s new carriers (see story, p. 51)—for a 35-kt. relative deck speed. Davis characterizes SRVL as a means to improve hot-day performance. The U.K. National Audit Office, in a November 2007 report, linked the move to SRVL to “weight challenges and propulsion integration issues.”
SRVL trials were carried out in May 2007, using the fly-by-wire Harrier operated by Qinetiq on the French carrier Charles de Gaulle. Challenges include the fact that the aircraft has to stop using wheelbrakes alone—37,000 lb. of aircraft at 35 kt. represents a lot of energy—on a deck that will likely be wet. A classic “bolter” will not be possible because power has to be reduced on touchdown to put the airplane’s weight on its wheels.
Vertical landing tests depend on the successful resolution of problems with the low-pressure turbine of the F135 engine, whose unusually large blades are designed to deliver power to the lift fan. A number of changes have been implemented, and tests continue to pin down the exact combination of circumstances where failures occur.
Two milestones are coming up: further analysis should lead to a limited clearance of the existing engine for inflight vectoring in October; and a modified, fully cleared engine should be ready to fly by late 2008.
The other main challenge in the JSF program will be ramping-up LRIP. Davis told an Aviation Week conference in early 2008 that he was “worried about getting the manufacturing lines down the learning curves.” Some problems stem from the weight-reduction redesign in 2004-05—the wing, for example, is harder than expected to assemble. These issues have to be sorted out by 2010: in 2011, production starts a steep acceleration, from 47 aircraft ordered in 2011 to 205 in 2014.
If the JSF program succeeds in locking up its international partners, the project could be within reach of its goal of an F-16-like, mid-four-digit production run and a near-monopoly of the fighter business outside Russia and China. The only other Western program with a long-term future will be whichever team wins India’s 126-aircraft order. But if JSF falls short of its goals—as almost every major military aircraft program has in the past 25 years—it will throw the re-equipment plans of a dozen air arms into disarray.
Aug 1, 2008
Bill Sweetman
Within a year, Lockheed Martin’s Joint Strike Fighter team expects to make firm offers to its eight partner nations: the U.K., Italy, Australia, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark and Turkey. In exchange for a commitment by all eight to aircraft numbers and delivery dates, they will get a firm price, several years before that would normally be possible under U.S. procurement rules.
Commonality has diminished during the development of JSF. The F-35C has a takeoff weight of 70,000 lb.—almost as heavy as an F-14D—and a 668-sq.-ft. wing.Credit: LOCKHEED MARTIN CONCEPT
The move is necessary because competitors are offering fixed prices, and because some partners need many of their aircraft from early production batches, which normally carry a high price.
Those commitments will be backed up by sanctions. “Partners who do not buy according to the program of record will cover the costs incurred by other partners,” says the Program Office director, Maj. Gen. Charles Davis.
Davis says the final price is the subject of intense discussions within the team, but numbers in the $58-63-million realm—flyaway prices in current dollars—have been mentioned. Given that total acquisition unit costs in export sales tend to be about twice the flyaway cost, this places the JSF unit cost close to that of Typhoon.
The partners should be clear about what they are getting for the money. At the inception of the JSF program, in 1995, then-project director George Muellner described the aircraft as “70% air-to-ground, 30% air-to-air.”
The F-35 is not optimized for air-to-air combat. JSF is neither fast nor agile enough to choose whether to shoot or scoot against an adversary like the Su-30. It either carries a maximum of four AIM-120 missiles—the capability is little publicized, although Davis confirms that it will be part of the systems development and demonstration program—or operates with compromised stealth. (A reduced-signature pylon for the outboard wing stations, designed to carry AIM-9X or Asraam missiles, is being developed.) Success in air combat depends on stealth, but although the F-35 should detect targets at long range before being detected, it will have to close to shorter distances to achieve an acceptable kill probability with the AIM-120C7, particularly against an agile target using jamming and decoys. The U.S. acknowledged this by developing the AIM-120D, designed to be compatible with new active electronically scanned array radars, but it will not be available for export in the foreseeable future.
Moreover, there is no longer any serious doubt that not all F-35s will be equal in stealth. Asked earlier this year to confirm that all would have the same signatures, George Standridge, Lockheed Martin’s vice president for business development, responded: “That is a matter for the U.S. government. I cannot and will not answer that question.”
The partner countries so far show signs of being able to live with the aircraft’s performance and the stealth capabilities they have been offered. The main exceptions are the U.K. and Italy, which will use the Typhoon as their primary air-to-air fighter.
Another major advantage of the JSF is the potential for spreading through-life upgrade and support costs over a large fleet of aircraft. This depends, however, on keeping numbers at their planned level, including 730 aircraft for partner nations, which means overcoming three obstacles.
The first is direct competition. Norway and Denmark are evaluating the JSF against other aircraft, mainly Saab’s Gripen Next Generation (NG). In May, the Netherlands government, under pressure from its Labor coalition partner, agreed to carry out a final assessment of other aircraft, including Gripen NG, Typhoon and Rafale, before making a commitment. Canada also intends to conduct a competition.
The second is budget concerns in the U.K. and Italy, where JSF procurement will be weighed against the final batch of Typhoon fighters unless money can be found for both types.
Doors, serrated and edge-treated to maintain stealth, open so the F-35B’s powered lift system can operate.Credit: LOCKHEED MARTIN
Third, U.S. numbers are shaky. Senior Air Force officers have stated that the service can afford only 48 JSFs per year rather than the 80 that the current program envisions, unless it gets more topline funding in the defense budget. The Navy and Marine Corps told the Government Accountability Office that they expect to buy 35 JSFs per year, versus 50 in the current plan. Davis says the JSF office “is waiting for the POM (program objective memorandum) process to see those numbers get adjusted.”
Technical risk is another factor. Later this year, the project office is expected to confirm a slip of 9-12 months in the completion of operational testing, with a consequent increase in development costs.
Davis minimizes its impact, saying it reflects the fact that early low-rate initial production (LRIP) batches have been reduced in size (12 aircraft on contract in 2008, for instance, versus 18 envisioned earlier), and observing that it is “at the discretion of the combatant commander” when to declare initial operational capability. Davis makes much of the flight of the first F-35B, on June 11, within the schedule planned in August 2006. “People said the program couldn’t make it, but this shows that we’re capable of performing to schedule.”
More important, though, is the Stovl (short takeoff and vertical landing) testing of the F-35B, which is, by Davis’s count, three months behind schedule. In the first quarter of 2009, the F-35B will start a series of 20 sorties at Fort Worth, Tex., in which the jet progressively slows down, leading to a slow landing. BF-1 will then be ferried to the Navy’s flight-test center at Patuxent River, Md., for tests leading to a vertical landing. The timescale for that is not certain, but a vertical landing doesn’t look likely until well into the second quarter.
The U.K. has voiced concerns about vertical landings. Added to F-35B testing under a U.K. initiative is a new flight mode, shipboard rolling vertical landing (SRVL), in which the aircraft approaches the ship with about 60 kt. airspeed and 25 kt. wind-over-deck—the maximum design speed of the Royal Navy’s new carriers (see story, p. 51)—for a 35-kt. relative deck speed. Davis characterizes SRVL as a means to improve hot-day performance. The U.K. National Audit Office, in a November 2007 report, linked the move to SRVL to “weight challenges and propulsion integration issues.”
SRVL trials were carried out in May 2007, using the fly-by-wire Harrier operated by Qinetiq on the French carrier Charles de Gaulle. Challenges include the fact that the aircraft has to stop using wheelbrakes alone—37,000 lb. of aircraft at 35 kt. represents a lot of energy—on a deck that will likely be wet. A classic “bolter” will not be possible because power has to be reduced on touchdown to put the airplane’s weight on its wheels.
Vertical landing tests depend on the successful resolution of problems with the low-pressure turbine of the F135 engine, whose unusually large blades are designed to deliver power to the lift fan. A number of changes have been implemented, and tests continue to pin down the exact combination of circumstances where failures occur.
Two milestones are coming up: further analysis should lead to a limited clearance of the existing engine for inflight vectoring in October; and a modified, fully cleared engine should be ready to fly by late 2008.
The other main challenge in the JSF program will be ramping-up LRIP. Davis told an Aviation Week conference in early 2008 that he was “worried about getting the manufacturing lines down the learning curves.” Some problems stem from the weight-reduction redesign in 2004-05—the wing, for example, is harder than expected to assemble. These issues have to be sorted out by 2010: in 2011, production starts a steep acceleration, from 47 aircraft ordered in 2011 to 205 in 2014.
If the JSF program succeeds in locking up its international partners, the project could be within reach of its goal of an F-16-like, mid-four-digit production run and a near-monopoly of the fighter business outside Russia and China. The only other Western program with a long-term future will be whichever team wins India’s 126-aircraft order. But if JSF falls short of its goals—as almost every major military aircraft program has in the past 25 years—it will throw the re-equipment plans of a dozen air arms into disarray.
"O que se percebe hoje é que os idiotas perderam a modéstia. E nós temos de ter tolerância e compreensão também com os idiotas, que são exatamente aqueles que escrevem para o esquecimento"
NJ
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soultrain
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Re: F-35 News
Bom acho que o Maj. Gen. Charles Davis, F/A-35 Program Office director aclarou todas as duvidas, certo?
[[]]'s
[[]]'s
"O que se percebe hoje é que os idiotas perderam a modéstia. E nós temos de ter tolerância e compreensão também com os idiotas, que são exatamente aqueles que escrevem para o esquecimento"
NJ
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soultrain
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Re: F-35 News
Das duas uma, ou o RFP se prolonga mais uma vez indefinidamente ou a LM vai colocar uma pequenina clausula, em que se descompromete do preço final.Wolfgang escreveu:Obrigado pelas respostas, pessoal! Soul, então a LM não poderá responder o RFP brasileiro, que já se avizinha?
Quem conhece por dentro o programa do F/A-35, tem muitas incertezas, tudo pode dar certo ou tudo pode correr muito mal, então como é possível haver as certezas aqui faladas há tanto tempo?
"O que se percebe hoje é que os idiotas perderam a modéstia. E nós temos de ter tolerância e compreensão também com os idiotas, que são exatamente aqueles que escrevem para o esquecimento"
NJ
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Penguin
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- Agradeceu: 5 vezes
- Agradeceram: 374 vezes
Re: F-35 News
Mudam os interlocutores, mudam as opinioes!
So teremos a prova dos nove daqui a alguns anos.
Ate a presente data ninguem saiu do programa e a lista de interessados aumenta (Israel, Cingapura, Coreia do Sul, Japao e Brasil).
--------------------------------------------------------------
F-35 JSF for Australia
https://www.teamjsf.com/
27 Feb. 2007
Interest about Lockheed Martin’s 5th Generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) remains high in the Australian media. To assist in promoting fact-based discussions, we believe it would be useful to provide you with information on the aircraft and program. We continue with discussing some of the misperceptions that have developed around the JSF in the Australia media.
Misperception: The F-35 is inferior to the F-22
Fact: The F-35 and the F-22 are both 5th generation fighters featuring stealth, integrated avionics, sensor fusion and superior logistics support. Both the F-22 and F-35 are greatly superior in capabilities to modern 4th generation fighters such as the Su-30, F-15, F-16, F/A-18 and Eurofighter.
Although the F-35 and the F-22 are the world's two premier fighters, there are some differences between the aircraft. The F-22 is optimized for air-to-air combat and is designed to defeat any airborne threat for the foreseeable future; although the F-22 currently has limited air-to-ground strike capability. The F-35 is optimized to be a multi-role fighter so it performs both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions equally well. While the F-22 is superior to the F-35 in air-to-air missions, both aircraft are far superior to any modern 4th generation fighter. And the F-35 is better than any other aircraft, including the F-22, for air-to-ground strike missions.
Just like the move from propeller-driven aircraft to jet fighters, 5th generation fighters provide "game changing" capabilities that make all current fighter aircraft obsolete. Fifth generation capabilities were recently demonstrated at Red Flag at Nellis Air Force Base where F-22s flew against today's 4th generation aircraft. RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, an exchange pilot flying the F-15, commented about flying against the F-22: "I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing. It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me." The F-35 will have similar capabilities. For more information on Red Flag see: http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041831
Misperception: JSF Program is a very troubled program in terms of delivery schedule, cost, and capability
Fact: The JSF development program is proceeding exceptionally well. The first test aircraft flew in December and then completed six sorties in 26 days to start 2007. Aircraft flying qualities and performance are excellent and reliability is outstanding. Ten of the 20 development aircraft are now in production, and by the end of the year all 20 will be in production. All F-35 systems, including the radar (derived from the F-22), communication/navigation/identification, electro-optical targeting , and distributed aperture are currently operating in ground based laboratories and individual flying testbeds, and the full 737 flying testbed will soon enter the test program. In summary, development is on-track.
The F-35 JSF production program is also on-track to deliver the first F-35 production aircraft to the U.S. Air Force in 2010 with a known cost and with a well-defined level of capability. Deliveries to international partners begin in 2011, and, if desired, to Australia beginning in 2012. In the capability area, the JSF program requirements were established at contact award in October 2001 and the aircraft is on track to meet or exceed those requirements. As this is a 5th generation stealth aircraft, many of the capabilities are not for public discussion. RAAF pilots are currently flying high-fidelity F-35 simulators that allow detailed knowledge of the aircraft capabilities and development of the advanced tactics used when flying 5th generation stealth aircraft.
Myth: JSF cost is jumping exponentially.
Fact: The F-35 program is based on affordability. The JSF development program costs are well established and the program is meeting all cost targets. The F-35 System Development and Demonstration contract was updated in 2005 to reflect additional requirements and development work, resulting in an increase from about US$19 billion to about US$26 billion, spread across 12 years. This cost is being paid for solely by the U.S. Government and international partners are not contributing additional development funds.
The F-35 JSF production costs for the first lot of production deliveries to the U.S. Air Force are defined and will be under contract in mid-2007. The costs for subsequent production lots are estimated, and the average cost of each F-35 has remained relatively flat since shortly after the F-35 development contract was awarded and basic aircraft and system requirements were established in October 2001. The current estimated average cost of the conventional takeoff and landing variant, which Australia is mostly likely to purchase, is about US$47 million (FY02$).
Additional information about Lockheed Martin and the F-35 are available through the Internet at:
* Electronic Media Kit @ http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findP ... i=0&sc=400 <http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findP ... i=0&sc=400>
* http://teamjsf.com <http://teamjsf.com>
Please do not hesitate to contact Lockheed Martin or our local representatives if you have questions regarding the F-35. Contact Information:
* John Smith, Lockheed Martin, e-mail: john.a1.smith@lmco.com; mobile phone: IDD 1 817 312 5131
* John Kent, Lockheed Martin, e-mail: john.r.kent@lmco.com; mobile phone: IDD 1 817 308 5567
* Andy Sloan, Hill and Knowlton, email: asloan@hillandknowlton.com.au; mobile phone: 04 1223 8329
So teremos a prova dos nove daqui a alguns anos.
Ate a presente data ninguem saiu do programa e a lista de interessados aumenta (Israel, Cingapura, Coreia do Sul, Japao e Brasil).
--------------------------------------------------------------
F-35 JSF for Australia
https://www.teamjsf.com/
27 Feb. 2007
Interest about Lockheed Martin’s 5th Generation F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) remains high in the Australian media. To assist in promoting fact-based discussions, we believe it would be useful to provide you with information on the aircraft and program. We continue with discussing some of the misperceptions that have developed around the JSF in the Australia media.
Misperception: The F-35 is inferior to the F-22
Fact: The F-35 and the F-22 are both 5th generation fighters featuring stealth, integrated avionics, sensor fusion and superior logistics support. Both the F-22 and F-35 are greatly superior in capabilities to modern 4th generation fighters such as the Su-30, F-15, F-16, F/A-18 and Eurofighter.
Although the F-35 and the F-22 are the world's two premier fighters, there are some differences between the aircraft. The F-22 is optimized for air-to-air combat and is designed to defeat any airborne threat for the foreseeable future; although the F-22 currently has limited air-to-ground strike capability. The F-35 is optimized to be a multi-role fighter so it performs both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions equally well. While the F-22 is superior to the F-35 in air-to-air missions, both aircraft are far superior to any modern 4th generation fighter. And the F-35 is better than any other aircraft, including the F-22, for air-to-ground strike missions.
Just like the move from propeller-driven aircraft to jet fighters, 5th generation fighters provide "game changing" capabilities that make all current fighter aircraft obsolete. Fifth generation capabilities were recently demonstrated at Red Flag at Nellis Air Force Base where F-22s flew against today's 4th generation aircraft. RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, an exchange pilot flying the F-15, commented about flying against the F-22: "I can't see the [expletive deleted] thing. It won't let me put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it visually through the canopy. [Flying against the F-22] annoys the hell out of me." The F-35 will have similar capabilities. For more information on Red Flag see: http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041831
Misperception: JSF Program is a very troubled program in terms of delivery schedule, cost, and capability
Fact: The JSF development program is proceeding exceptionally well. The first test aircraft flew in December and then completed six sorties in 26 days to start 2007. Aircraft flying qualities and performance are excellent and reliability is outstanding. Ten of the 20 development aircraft are now in production, and by the end of the year all 20 will be in production. All F-35 systems, including the radar (derived from the F-22), communication/navigation/identification, electro-optical targeting , and distributed aperture are currently operating in ground based laboratories and individual flying testbeds, and the full 737 flying testbed will soon enter the test program. In summary, development is on-track.
The F-35 JSF production program is also on-track to deliver the first F-35 production aircraft to the U.S. Air Force in 2010 with a known cost and with a well-defined level of capability. Deliveries to international partners begin in 2011, and, if desired, to Australia beginning in 2012. In the capability area, the JSF program requirements were established at contact award in October 2001 and the aircraft is on track to meet or exceed those requirements. As this is a 5th generation stealth aircraft, many of the capabilities are not for public discussion. RAAF pilots are currently flying high-fidelity F-35 simulators that allow detailed knowledge of the aircraft capabilities and development of the advanced tactics used when flying 5th generation stealth aircraft.
Myth: JSF cost is jumping exponentially.
Fact: The F-35 program is based on affordability. The JSF development program costs are well established and the program is meeting all cost targets. The F-35 System Development and Demonstration contract was updated in 2005 to reflect additional requirements and development work, resulting in an increase from about US$19 billion to about US$26 billion, spread across 12 years. This cost is being paid for solely by the U.S. Government and international partners are not contributing additional development funds.
The F-35 JSF production costs for the first lot of production deliveries to the U.S. Air Force are defined and will be under contract in mid-2007. The costs for subsequent production lots are estimated, and the average cost of each F-35 has remained relatively flat since shortly after the F-35 development contract was awarded and basic aircraft and system requirements were established in October 2001. The current estimated average cost of the conventional takeoff and landing variant, which Australia is mostly likely to purchase, is about US$47 million (FY02$).
Additional information about Lockheed Martin and the F-35 are available through the Internet at:
* Electronic Media Kit @ http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findP ... i=0&sc=400 <http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findP ... i=0&sc=400>
* http://teamjsf.com <http://teamjsf.com>
Please do not hesitate to contact Lockheed Martin or our local representatives if you have questions regarding the F-35. Contact Information:
* John Smith, Lockheed Martin, e-mail: john.a1.smith@lmco.com; mobile phone: IDD 1 817 312 5131
* John Kent, Lockheed Martin, e-mail: john.r.kent@lmco.com; mobile phone: IDD 1 817 308 5567
* Andy Sloan, Hill and Knowlton, email: asloan@hillandknowlton.com.au; mobile phone: 04 1223 8329
Editado pela última vez por Penguin em Seg Ago 04, 2008 10:36 pm, em um total de 2 vezes.
Sempre e inevitavelmente, cada um de nós subestima o número de indivíduos estúpidos que circulam pelo mundo.
Carlo M. Cipolla
Carlo M. Cipolla
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soultrain
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- Mensagens: 12154
- Registrado em: Dom Jun 19, 2005 7:39 pm
- Localização: Almada- Portugal
Re: F-35 News
Pois é Santiago, um texto de marketing de 2007 do fabricante e uma entrevista ao Maj. Gen. Charles Davis da USAF, apanhado na contramão e irritado... Oh duvida cruel, em quem acreditar?...
Vários partners estão neste momento a fazer concorrências, porque será? Dúvidas?
[[]]'s
Vários partners estão neste momento a fazer concorrências, porque será? Dúvidas?
[[]]'s
"O que se percebe hoje é que os idiotas perderam a modéstia. E nós temos de ter tolerância e compreensão também com os idiotas, que são exatamente aqueles que escrevem para o esquecimento"
NJ