MAS COMO NÃO SOU MAUZINHO NÃO DIGO TAL COISA
O LPD San António da US Navy
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P44
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P 44 escreveu:
Só que este artigo foi escrito em 2005, ano em que os NPO foram postos a flutuar. Ao contrário dos NPO o San António já navega e outros lhe seguem.
se eu fosse mauzinho até diria que parece que o San Antonio foi construido nos ENVC
Só que este artigo foi escrito em 2005, ano em que os NPO foram postos a flutuar. Ao contrário dos NPO o San António já navega e outros lhe seguem.
cumprimentos.
Luis Filipe Silva
-------------------
CAMPANHA ANTI-FLOOD: OU POSTA KÔZA QUE PRESTE, QUE VÁ SOMAR, OU FICA SÓ LENDO. CHAT É NO MSN & QUETALES!!! by Túlio
Luis Filipe Silva
-------------------
CAMPANHA ANTI-FLOOD: OU POSTA KÔZA QUE PRESTE, QUE VÁ SOMAR, OU FICA SÓ LENDO. CHAT É NO MSN & QUETALES!!! by Túlio
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P44
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luis F. Silva escreveu:P 44 escreveu:se eu fosse mauzinho até diria que parece que o San Antonio foi construido nos ENVC
Só que este artigo foi escrito em 2005, ano em que os NPO foram postos a flutuar. Ao contrário dos NPO o San António já navega e outros lhe seguem.
coooooooooooooooffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
Luis tu só sabes é falar mal
Triste sina ter nascido português 
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osted 09/10/07 21:39
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Third Time Could Be the Charm for LPD Program
By CHRISTOPHER P. CAVAS
PASCAGOULA, Miss. — With the U.S. Navy still smarting from the unsatisfactory delivery of two amphibious ships, Northrop Grumman has put a special emphasis on making sure the third ship avoids the pitfalls of its predecessors.
If early returns are any indication, the shipbuilder and the Navy might be third time lucky.
The USS Mesa Verde (LPD 19) carried out its initial builder’s trials in mid-August in the Gulf of Mexico. The ship returned Aug. 16 to Northrop’s Ingalls shipyard in Pascagoula flying two brooms — a traditional “clean sweep” symbol representing success for both the Navy and Northrop Grumman.
But while the shipbuilder might be expected to trumpet its success, the ultimate goal is to please the customer. And the customer, at least at this stage, seems happy.
The Mesa Verde “sets a new standard for the LPD class as far as being a complete ship,” said Capt. Beth Dexter, the Navy’s supervisor of shipbuilding in Pascagoula. “My Navy team is proud to present it.”
The San Antonio-class LPD 17 program has been in trouble since late 1998, when the initial construction contract was awarded to Avondale Industries in New Orleans. Avondale beat out Litton Ingalls primarily because it planned to use a new computer program to design the ships — the first time a Navy ship was designed in its entirety using computer tools. But the program didn’t work, the Navy kept making design changes, costs escalated and major delays ensued.
Litton Ingalls bought Avondale in 1999 thinking it could fix the program — which it couldn’t — and in late 2000 the shipyards were acquired by Northrop Grumman.
On the customer side, a succession of Navy program managers and acquisition executives struggled — unsuccessfully in most cases — to hold down the design churn and manage costs, which have more than doubled from the $750 million per ship the Navy forecast in the late 1990s. The Navy now estimates the acquisition cost for the ninth ship, LPD 25, will be $1.8 billion.
All those problems and more affected the first two ships of the class. The USS San Antonio (LPD 17) was delivered in mid-2005 in an incomplete state. The Navy accepted the ship knowing it had numerous construction defects, many of which would need to be fixed for extra cost after the shipyard’s obligation period ended. The USS New Orleans (LPD 18) was delivered last December, also with incomplete spaces, and neither ship has yet to deploy.
Navy leaders remain irked by the problems on the first ships. An inspection of the San Antonio in April listed a host of issues, and in June Navy Secretary Donald Winter sent a scathing letter to Northrop Chairman Ron Sugar restating his dissatisfaction with the ships.
That’s a lot of baggage to shed, acknowledged Phil Teel, head of the Northrop Grumman Ship Systems Ingalls and Avondale shipyards in an Aug. 21 interview at Ingalls.
“We heard the Navy at all levels,” Teel said. “We heard the operational Navy even before we heard the acquisition Navy. And we hope that [LPD] 19 responds to that. Because that’s really the only way we can respond, by building ships that they’re proud to take. And I think they’ll be proud to take 19.”
Improvements in building the LPDs will be seen on the follow-on ships as well, Teel said.
“We’ll see the same if not slightly better in 20. And then 21,” he added. “We’re investing a significant amount of our time, money, human capital, intellectual capital in making this ship class the best it can possibly be.”
Walking the Ships
Northrop managers and employees still feel sharp pangs and express a certain awkwardness when asked about the problems on LPD 17, and clearly don’t like the reputation the ship class has received. There’s a determination evident at both Ingalls and Avondale to make the ships better and turn the story around.
The Mesa Verde certainly seems better than the San Antonio when the first ship was delivered. The ship is clean, most fittings are in place on the bulkheads, and electrical wiring — a particularly sore point on the San Antonio — appears neat, tidy and professional.
Northrop’s managers are proud of the relatively small number of “trial cards” issued on LPD 19 after the builder’s trials. The cards indicate items that need attention — ranging from indicator lights and small fittings to major ship systems — and new ships typically come back with thousands of them.
The LPD 17 returned from her trials with more than 18,000 cards. LPD 18 had over 17,000. The score for LPD 19: about 6,500.
“All of the ship was operational for the builder’s trials except for one of 26 video cameras,” said Kevin Jarvis, shipyard manager of the Ingalls facility. The one camera, he said, had a bad circuit, since replaced.
Northrop also claims the LPD’s Engineering Operating System (EOS), an automated system to control the ship’s machinery, which failed to function properly on the first ships, has been debugged.
“We had no big hiccups on the control system on trials,” Jarvis said.
Other advances on the first ships include completion of the aviation certifications, and all the ship’s internal elevators are operational.
All of the Mesa Verde’s 1,109 compartments are complete and — in an atypical circumstance — about three dozen spaces already are being turned over to the ship’s crew, in advance of the planned Sept. 28 delivery date. The move shifts responsibility for the space from the shipbuilder to sailors.
“I’m told that is very unusual,” said Cmdr. Shawn Lobree, the Mesa Verde’s commanding officer. “One of the ship directors told me he’s been here 40 years or so and he’s not aware of a ship that’s proceeded like that.”
The Mesa Verde is the first of the new LPDs to be built at Ingalls, while six of the new ships, including the next two, come together at the Avondale yard. Ingalls, in addition to the LPDs, cranks out assault ships and destroyers for the Navy and builds new Coast Guard cutters. For the 5,300 workers at Avondale, it’s all LPD, and the workers in New Orleans also seem eager to give the Navy and Marine Corps a ship all will be proud of.
Tommy “Cabbage” Barrett, ship director of the Green Bay (LPD 20), pointed out improvements as he walked a reporter through his ship on Aug. 20.
“We’re sealing up compartments in blocks as they’re completed to cut down on pass-through traffic and damage to items,” he said of his ship, which is 82 percent complete. He pointed to the flooring, where the Navy-specified latex “underlayment” caused problems on the first two ships.
“The latex bubbled up when it got wet,” he said. “We’ve switched to epoxy, which solved the problem.”
The non-skid covering on the weather decks also was an issue on the earlier ships, where a contractor failed to lay it down properly. That’s also been fixed, Barrett said.
On board the New York (LPD 21), which won’t enter the water until late this year, ship director Hank Corcoran also pointed out improvements.
“The wireway routing is a lot better,” Corcoran said, and pointed out that the shipyard continues to improve pre-installation outfitting such as insulation.
“We’re doing much more work in advance” of ship blocks being lowered into the ship, he said, noting that on the San Antonio, only about 10 percent of the insulation was complete at launch. On the New York, he said, that figure will be 75 percent.
Later ships will also benefit from a new consolidated planning tool, said Bob Merchent, head of the Avondale yard. The computerized tool will bring together engineering drawings, material, parts, the craftsmen needed to do the work, sequence of construction, schedule and budget into one place. The tool will first be used on the San Diego (LPD 22), Merchent said.
Navy LPD program officials declined repeated requests for an interview on the progress of the program.
“The LPD 17 Program Office is unable to do media interviews at this time,” Katie Dunnigan, a spokesperson for the Naval Sea Systems Command in Washington, said Aug. 27. Instead, she provided a written statement from Capt. Bill Galinis, the Navy’s LPD 17 program manager, commenting on the initial sea trials of the Mesa Verde.
“This was a very successful Builder’s Trial and the Navy/Northrop Grumman team did a tremendous job completing this ship and executing the Trial,” Galinis said in the statement. “There is work that remains, however, as we ready this ship for presentation.”
The LPD program will get an extra dose of scrutiny March 1 when the christening ceremony for the New York is held at Avondale. Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York and former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani — vying respectively for the Democratic and Republican nominations — are expected to speak at the event and note that the ship’s bow contains several tons of metal from the fallen World Trade Center.
But when the dust settles the following day and the presidential campaign spotlight moves on, the Navy still will be keeping a watchful eye on the LPDs, waiting for the day — expected late next year — when the first ships begin to deploy. •
E-mail: ccavas@defensenews.com.
Print this story
Third Time Could Be the Charm for LPD Program
By CHRISTOPHER P. CAVAS
PASCAGOULA, Miss. — With the U.S. Navy still smarting from the unsatisfactory delivery of two amphibious ships, Northrop Grumman has put a special emphasis on making sure the third ship avoids the pitfalls of its predecessors.
If early returns are any indication, the shipbuilder and the Navy might be third time lucky.
The USS Mesa Verde (LPD 19) carried out its initial builder’s trials in mid-August in the Gulf of Mexico. The ship returned Aug. 16 to Northrop’s Ingalls shipyard in Pascagoula flying two brooms — a traditional “clean sweep” symbol representing success for both the Navy and Northrop Grumman.
But while the shipbuilder might be expected to trumpet its success, the ultimate goal is to please the customer. And the customer, at least at this stage, seems happy.
The Mesa Verde “sets a new standard for the LPD class as far as being a complete ship,” said Capt. Beth Dexter, the Navy’s supervisor of shipbuilding in Pascagoula. “My Navy team is proud to present it.”
The San Antonio-class LPD 17 program has been in trouble since late 1998, when the initial construction contract was awarded to Avondale Industries in New Orleans. Avondale beat out Litton Ingalls primarily because it planned to use a new computer program to design the ships — the first time a Navy ship was designed in its entirety using computer tools. But the program didn’t work, the Navy kept making design changes, costs escalated and major delays ensued.
Litton Ingalls bought Avondale in 1999 thinking it could fix the program — which it couldn’t — and in late 2000 the shipyards were acquired by Northrop Grumman.
On the customer side, a succession of Navy program managers and acquisition executives struggled — unsuccessfully in most cases — to hold down the design churn and manage costs, which have more than doubled from the $750 million per ship the Navy forecast in the late 1990s. The Navy now estimates the acquisition cost for the ninth ship, LPD 25, will be $1.8 billion.
All those problems and more affected the first two ships of the class. The USS San Antonio (LPD 17) was delivered in mid-2005 in an incomplete state. The Navy accepted the ship knowing it had numerous construction defects, many of which would need to be fixed for extra cost after the shipyard’s obligation period ended. The USS New Orleans (LPD 18) was delivered last December, also with incomplete spaces, and neither ship has yet to deploy.
Navy leaders remain irked by the problems on the first ships. An inspection of the San Antonio in April listed a host of issues, and in June Navy Secretary Donald Winter sent a scathing letter to Northrop Chairman Ron Sugar restating his dissatisfaction with the ships.
That’s a lot of baggage to shed, acknowledged Phil Teel, head of the Northrop Grumman Ship Systems Ingalls and Avondale shipyards in an Aug. 21 interview at Ingalls.
“We heard the Navy at all levels,” Teel said. “We heard the operational Navy even before we heard the acquisition Navy. And we hope that [LPD] 19 responds to that. Because that’s really the only way we can respond, by building ships that they’re proud to take. And I think they’ll be proud to take 19.”
Improvements in building the LPDs will be seen on the follow-on ships as well, Teel said.
“We’ll see the same if not slightly better in 20. And then 21,” he added. “We’re investing a significant amount of our time, money, human capital, intellectual capital in making this ship class the best it can possibly be.”
Walking the Ships
Northrop managers and employees still feel sharp pangs and express a certain awkwardness when asked about the problems on LPD 17, and clearly don’t like the reputation the ship class has received. There’s a determination evident at both Ingalls and Avondale to make the ships better and turn the story around.
The Mesa Verde certainly seems better than the San Antonio when the first ship was delivered. The ship is clean, most fittings are in place on the bulkheads, and electrical wiring — a particularly sore point on the San Antonio — appears neat, tidy and professional.
Northrop’s managers are proud of the relatively small number of “trial cards” issued on LPD 19 after the builder’s trials. The cards indicate items that need attention — ranging from indicator lights and small fittings to major ship systems — and new ships typically come back with thousands of them.
The LPD 17 returned from her trials with more than 18,000 cards. LPD 18 had over 17,000. The score for LPD 19: about 6,500.
“All of the ship was operational for the builder’s trials except for one of 26 video cameras,” said Kevin Jarvis, shipyard manager of the Ingalls facility. The one camera, he said, had a bad circuit, since replaced.
Northrop also claims the LPD’s Engineering Operating System (EOS), an automated system to control the ship’s machinery, which failed to function properly on the first ships, has been debugged.
“We had no big hiccups on the control system on trials,” Jarvis said.
Other advances on the first ships include completion of the aviation certifications, and all the ship’s internal elevators are operational.
All of the Mesa Verde’s 1,109 compartments are complete and — in an atypical circumstance — about three dozen spaces already are being turned over to the ship’s crew, in advance of the planned Sept. 28 delivery date. The move shifts responsibility for the space from the shipbuilder to sailors.
“I’m told that is very unusual,” said Cmdr. Shawn Lobree, the Mesa Verde’s commanding officer. “One of the ship directors told me he’s been here 40 years or so and he’s not aware of a ship that’s proceeded like that.”
The Mesa Verde is the first of the new LPDs to be built at Ingalls, while six of the new ships, including the next two, come together at the Avondale yard. Ingalls, in addition to the LPDs, cranks out assault ships and destroyers for the Navy and builds new Coast Guard cutters. For the 5,300 workers at Avondale, it’s all LPD, and the workers in New Orleans also seem eager to give the Navy and Marine Corps a ship all will be proud of.
Tommy “Cabbage” Barrett, ship director of the Green Bay (LPD 20), pointed out improvements as he walked a reporter through his ship on Aug. 20.
“We’re sealing up compartments in blocks as they’re completed to cut down on pass-through traffic and damage to items,” he said of his ship, which is 82 percent complete. He pointed to the flooring, where the Navy-specified latex “underlayment” caused problems on the first two ships.
“The latex bubbled up when it got wet,” he said. “We’ve switched to epoxy, which solved the problem.”
The non-skid covering on the weather decks also was an issue on the earlier ships, where a contractor failed to lay it down properly. That’s also been fixed, Barrett said.
On board the New York (LPD 21), which won’t enter the water until late this year, ship director Hank Corcoran also pointed out improvements.
“The wireway routing is a lot better,” Corcoran said, and pointed out that the shipyard continues to improve pre-installation outfitting such as insulation.
“We’re doing much more work in advance” of ship blocks being lowered into the ship, he said, noting that on the San Antonio, only about 10 percent of the insulation was complete at launch. On the New York, he said, that figure will be 75 percent.
Later ships will also benefit from a new consolidated planning tool, said Bob Merchent, head of the Avondale yard. The computerized tool will bring together engineering drawings, material, parts, the craftsmen needed to do the work, sequence of construction, schedule and budget into one place. The tool will first be used on the San Diego (LPD 22), Merchent said.
Navy LPD program officials declined repeated requests for an interview on the progress of the program.
“The LPD 17 Program Office is unable to do media interviews at this time,” Katie Dunnigan, a spokesperson for the Naval Sea Systems Command in Washington, said Aug. 27. Instead, she provided a written statement from Capt. Bill Galinis, the Navy’s LPD 17 program manager, commenting on the initial sea trials of the Mesa Verde.
“This was a very successful Builder’s Trial and the Navy/Northrop Grumman team did a tremendous job completing this ship and executing the Trial,” Galinis said in the statement. “There is work that remains, however, as we ready this ship for presentation.”
The LPD program will get an extra dose of scrutiny March 1 when the christening ceremony for the New York is held at Avondale. Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York and former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani — vying respectively for the Democratic and Republican nominations — are expected to speak at the event and note that the ship’s bow contains several tons of metal from the fallen World Trade Center.
But when the dust settles the following day and the presidential campaign spotlight moves on, the Navy still will be keeping a watchful eye on the LPDs, waiting for the day — expected late next year — when the first ships begin to deploy. •
E-mail: ccavas@defensenews.com.
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Mapinguari
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Rui Elias Maltez escreveu:Talharim:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship ... 606695.JPG
Esse navio russo da era soviética da classe Kiev (um hibrido) não é nem um LPD nem um LHD.
Trata-se no fundo de um PA pequeno e armado ao nível de uma fragata/cruzador, de concepção muito própria e algo desactualizada.
Repare que a piosta tem pouco espaço para qu ali operem mais que 4 helis médios simultaneamente, nem tem capacidade para efectuar desembarques anfíbios de viaturas e equipamentos para uma costa onde haja uma intervenção armada.
Trata-se do princípio de colocar todos os ovos no mesmo cesto.
Para as modernas doutrinas, os navios de projecção, nomeadamente PA's, LPD's e LHD's têm escoltas como fragatas AAW e ASW.
Os navios de projecção estão relativamente desarmados, e daí que o seu custo seja relativamete baixo.
Para um LPD na ordem da 14.000 ton de deslocamento, os custos rondam os 250 milhões de euros, ao contrário de uma fragata AEGIS/APAR que ronda os 600 a 700 milhões.
Não me parece que essa sua propodta fosse vantajosa para a MB.
Não ligue, Rui...
Tem bastante gente que vê coisas que são provenientes da Rússia como a verdadeira panacéia que vai resolver todos os nossos problemas. Não importa o que seja: se for russo, é solução.
Precisa de defesa AAé? Compre S300!
Precisa de fuzis de assalto? Compre Ak104!
Precisa de carros de combate? Compre T90!
Precisa de Caças? Compre Su35!
Precisa de LPH? Compre essa trapizonga aí!
A coisa não é assim, é claro, com equipamento proveniente de nenhum país. Seja russo, americano, sueco, francês ou alemão, há que se analisar prós e contras de tudo o que se pretende adquirir.
Mapinguari
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Mapinguari
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P44 escreveu:Rui Elias Maltez escreveu:Não lhes parece que estruturalmente e ao nível de desenho, os LPD San António parecem partilhar da mesma filosofia dos britânicos Albion?
Bem, as linhas do LPD-17 são muito mais "stealth" que as do Albion...
HMS ALBION
Quanto ás caracteristicas tenho de ir ver no wikipedia
O Albion parece ter mais semelhança com navios civis, tipo cargueiros ro-ro, do que com um navio militar. Deve fazer uso de padrões da marinha mercante.
Mapinguari
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Al Zarqawi
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????
soultrain escreveu:Boas,
Até me arrepiei a ler este texto. Nós vamos construir um LPD que será o primeiro de uma classe, da qual só teremos esse. Sem margem para erro.
Medo, muito medo.
[[]]'s
Tudo bem,Soultrain
Daria para explicar tal dedução?Li o texto rapidamente,mas não deduzi isso.O que o leva a crer em tal.
Abraços,
Al Zarqawi - O Dragão!
"A inveja é doce,o olho grande é que é uma merda"Autor desconhecido.
"A inveja é doce,o olho grande é que é uma merda"Autor desconhecido.
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P44
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Rui Elias Maltez
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P-44:
Isto refere-se aos LPD da classe San António.
Para além de se tratar de um navio enorme, se comparado com outros LPD's nomeadamete europeus, o que representa a maior fatia de custo, é o seu armamento.
Ao contráro os europeus que apenas instalam um ou dois CIWS nos LPD's, os americanos armam-nos quase como se se tratasse de uma fragata, apenas sem peça de artilharia, o que encarece, para além da instalação de sistemas de detecção e de navegação de ponta, e ainda pelo facto dos equipamentos militares americanos parecerem-me algo inflaccionados.
Mas que se trata de um belo e bom LPD, eu acho que é.
~Navy Ship $840 Million Over Budget and Still Unfinished
Isto refere-se aos LPD da classe San António.
Para além de se tratar de um navio enorme, se comparado com outros LPD's nomeadamete europeus, o que representa a maior fatia de custo, é o seu armamento.
Ao contráro os europeus que apenas instalam um ou dois CIWS nos LPD's, os americanos armam-nos quase como se se tratasse de uma fragata, apenas sem peça de artilharia, o que encarece, para além da instalação de sistemas de detecção e de navegação de ponta, e ainda pelo facto dos equipamentos militares americanos parecerem-me algo inflaccionados.
Mas que se trata de um belo e bom LPD, eu acho que é.
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luis F. Silva
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Mas que se trata de um belo e bom LPD, eu acho que é.
Por ser tão bom, é que os americanos têm gasto rios de dinheiro em alterações e arranjos nos diversos navios da classe.
Rui basta ler o artigo acima para saber que não são bons navios, porque quem (muito)torto nasce, tarde ou nunca se endireita.
cumprimentos.
Luis Filipe Silva
-------------------
CAMPANHA ANTI-FLOOD: OU POSTA KÔZA QUE PRESTE, QUE VÁ SOMAR, OU FICA SÓ LENDO. CHAT É NO MSN & QUETALES!!! by Túlio
Luis Filipe Silva
-------------------
CAMPANHA ANTI-FLOOD: OU POSTA KÔZA QUE PRESTE, QUE VÁ SOMAR, OU FICA SÓ LENDO. CHAT É NO MSN & QUETALES!!! by Túlio
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P44
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Rui Elias Maltez
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Luís:
Os americanos têm, uma tradição de construirem em série, e cada série tem sempre os seu defeitos de "juventude" que nas unidades seguites serão analizadas e reparadas.
Lembre-se que sempre que sai uma coisa nova por parte dos USA, é sempre mau, são os LPD 17, são os C-130J, são os C-5 Galaxy, é tudo.
Só defeitos.
Claro que os europeus se aprimoram mais nas suas construções, até porque são navios pensados, concebidos e contruidos para durarem mais anos e navegarem menos milhas, até porque se a coisa "aquece" lá vamos nós pedir ajuda ao camones.
Os americanos ao fim de 20 anos, abatem um destroier sem problemas de maior.
E para ser franco quem me dera que Poprtugal tivesse um LPD 17, com esses defeitos todos, em vez de uma merda de NPO's que afinal de contas também me parece que estão com montes de defeitos, pois ainda nem para navegar sairam da doca.
Os americanos têm, uma tradição de construirem em série, e cada série tem sempre os seu defeitos de "juventude" que nas unidades seguites serão analizadas e reparadas.
Lembre-se que sempre que sai uma coisa nova por parte dos USA, é sempre mau, são os LPD 17, são os C-130J, são os C-5 Galaxy, é tudo.
Só defeitos.
Claro que os europeus se aprimoram mais nas suas construções, até porque são navios pensados, concebidos e contruidos para durarem mais anos e navegarem menos milhas, até porque se a coisa "aquece" lá vamos nós pedir ajuda ao camones.
Os americanos ao fim de 20 anos, abatem um destroier sem problemas de maior.
E para ser franco quem me dera que Poprtugal tivesse um LPD 17, com esses defeitos todos, em vez de uma merda de NPO's que afinal de contas também me parece que estão com montes de defeitos, pois ainda nem para navegar sairam da doca.
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cabeça de martelo
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Mas que eu saiba o único defeito que há são as limalhas que foram encontradas nos motores...Italianos, certo?!
Há tb um grande defeito, a falta de verba (juntando-se à falta de vontade politica).
Há tb um grande defeito, a falta de verba (juntando-se à falta de vontade politica).
"Lá nos confins da Península Ibérica, existe um povo que não governa nem se deixa governar ”, Caio Júlio César, líder Militar Romano".
Portugal está morto e enterrado!!!
Portugal está morto e enterrado!!!
P44 escreveu:eu prefiro este modelo CHINÊS....
Boa tarde!
Será que os Chineses vendem em packs de 3 nas lojas dos 300?
Cumprimentos!
Editado pela última vez por Upham em Sex Set 21, 2007 8:16 am, em um total de 1 vez.