FX2 - Qual o melhor caça para a FAB?

[Bolovo]

Estou feliz de ver que o resultado da enquete colocou meu querido SU-37 praticamente empatado com o moderníssimo Rafale. Isto prova que mesmo sendo de uma geração anterior, é um exclente caça e serviria perfeitamente para o Brasil.

Num aguento mais te ver falando do Flanker.

[Bender]

Prevendo embate, presidente quer manter ministros
Auxiliares considerados mais fortes foram convidados a ficar no cargo
João Domingos

Tânia Monteiro

Diante do enfraquecimento do governo com a saída de Antonio Palocci do Ministério da Fazenda, o presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva está pedindo a alguns ministros que permaneçam no cargo. Ele quer que eles abram mão de disputar as eleições de outubro.

Entre os ministros que Lula quer manter ao seu lado encontram-se Jaques Wagner (Relações Institucionais), Marina Silva (Meio Ambiente), Paulo Bernardo (Planejamento) e Walfrido Mares Guia (Turismo).

Lula terá de consumar uma reforma ministerial até sexta-feira, prazo legal para que deixem o governo os ministros interessados em concorrer nas próximas eleições. Agora o presidente pretende manter no primeiro escalão o máximo possível de nomes considerados fortes, para o duro embate com a oposição que está sendo previsto para a campanha eleitoral.

DEFESA

O vice-presidente José Alencar deve continuar à frente do Ministério da Defesa, mas por um motivo distinto. O nome de Tarso Genro, ex-ministro da Educação e ex-presidente do PT, é cotado para o posto, mas sabe-se que ele tem pouca intimidade com os oficiais-generais da aeronáutica, Exército e Marinha. É um ponto negativo e o presidente Lula já tem experiência a esse respeito.

Seu primeiro ministro da Defesa foi o embaixador José Viegas. Sem conhecer os militares, sofreu um bombardeio interno durante todo o tempo em que ficou à frente da pasta.

Para o lugar do ministro da Saúde, Saraiva Felipe, os dirigentes do PMDB pró-governo (o presidente do Senado, Renan Calheiros, o líder do partido no Senado, Ney Suassuna, e o ex-presidente José Sarney) já escolheram o presidente da Fundação Nacional da Saúde (Funasa), Paulo Lustosa. Seria uma forma de compensar Lustosa que, ao ser escolhido para a presidência da Agência Nacional de Telecomunicações (Anatel), sofreu um boicote por parte do ministro das Comunicações, Hélio Costa (também do PMDB, com permanência garantida no cargo), e não pôde assumir o posto.


Retirado do Notimp/Estadão de Hoje

A Possibilidade existe, Alexandre, a política é f...

[pafuncio]

É dinâmica a política, é foda a política.

Vamos esperar o dia de amanhã.

Tou achando que o Alencar vai abandonar o barco rapidinho, saca ?

Por outro lado, o cara já é velhinho, bilionário e nacionalista.

Viria bem para sua biografia a compra de uns SSK´s zerados e uns Rafales, né ?

[chm0d]

Estou feliz de ver que o resultado da enquete colocou meu querido SU-37 praticamente empatado com o moderníssimo Rafale. Isto prova que mesmo sendo de uma geração anterior, é um exclente caça e serviria perfeitamente para o Brasil.

Num aguento mais te ver falando do Flanker.

Eu tambem estou muito feliz, praticamente empatado

Abs.

[Carlos Mathias]

Num aguento mais te ver falando do Flanker. Mr. Green

Então meu camarada, prepara o saco que vem muito mais ainda. Vem aí o roudnose-kick-SU-37 com o Chuck Norris no comando!

[oraculobq]

Num aguento mais te ver falando do Flanker. Mr. Green

Então meu camarada, prepara o saco que vem muito mais ainda. Vem aí o roudnose-kick-SU-37 com o Chuck Norris no comando!

Se o Brasil tivesse o flanker e o Chack Norris seriamos imbativeis...
... Mas nós temos o mestre yoda!!!

[Penguin]

Nem tudo sao flores no Rafale?:

Problems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Rafale):
The Rafale is an almost unparallelled achievement for a single
nation, as equivalent fighter programmes have been undertaken by
much larger companies or collaboratively by several nations. As an
aircraft to meet French requirements (combining a robust carrier
capability and good air-to-ground potential) Rafale could not be
bettered, while the programme's unilateral nature afforded great
focus, and protected it from many of the political factors which
have so dogged the rival Eurofighter. Any problems (and those listed
here are disputed) should be viewed in this light.

There have, however, been increasingly critical comments about
Rafale from members of the National Assembly's Finance and Defence
Commissions, and there have been reports of disagreements between
Dassault and DGA about cost increases and obsolescence. According to
Defence Analysis (p.17, Vol 8.No.12 December 2005) Dassault have
called the RBE2 radar 'fatally flawed' alleging that its range
was "inadequate" and averring that the Rafale therefore relied on
AWACS support to overcome this. The DGA also described Rafale's OSF ("Optronique Secteur Frontal") as "obsolescent" and production has been cut back to just 48 units, rather than the planned number, which was to have been sufficient to equip all F1 and F2 versions.

While UK and German newspapers have been energetic in their
criticism of Typhoon, Rafale has enjoyed a much gentler ride, and
many of Rafale's problems (which have been similar in nature, scope
and extent to those suffered by the rival Eurofighter) have seldom
emerged until long after they were solved, or remain unsubstantiated
rumour, though there have been exceptions. According to Defense
News, Air Force Gen. Eric Rouzaud revealed that early deliveries of
the Rafale were prone to a software glitch that cut out part of the
flight system, requiring the pilot to hit the reset button. The
fault has been fixed, Rouzaud said.

There were reports that problems with the "Central Processor" led to
only three of five Rafales being delivered during 2004, and
suggestions that the same problem led to a shortfall of deliveries
(against the planned schedule) in 2005.

There was a two year delay in signing the production contract for
the 59 F2 standard Rafales, and the order due to be placed in 2006
has dropped from 82 aircraft (65 AdlA, 17 Aéronavale) to just 66 (48
AdlA, 18 Aéronavale) (according to the Vincon Senate report). The
Pintat report indicated that this reduced order has also been
slipped to 2007.

Still subject to delays, the Rafale (once progressing well ahead of
the rival Eurofighter) has still not entered full operational
service with the Armée de l'Air, and less than a dozen are in use
with the French Air Force for trials, evaluation and conversion
training with EC330. Though the aircraft entered operational service
with the Aéronavale in 2004 Flotille 12 still has only 9 Rafales
(less than a full Flotille) and is currently limited to Air-to-Air
combat (F1 software/hardware standard). There are concerns that
operational loads (especially in the long range air to surface role)
will be limited by the present engine's relatively modest thrust.
A "Post F3" configuration is now being discussed, this will be
fitted with an active array radar, which is necessary to fully
exploit the MBDA Meteor.

More controversially, some sources (including Francis Tusa's
industry newsletter, Defence Analysis) maintain that the aircraft
compares unfavourably with Eurofighter's Typhoon in the air to air
role, though this is vigorously denied in other quarters. Though it
uses a modern and extremely efficient canard Delta configuration,
Rafale has been accused of being hampered by an old fashioned
and 'cumbersome' Man Machine Interface, and it has been further
suggested that this was the main reason behind the type's rejection
by South Korea and Singapore.

According to Defence Analysis and Flight Daily News, the Singapore
evaluation also reportedly revealed problems with Rafale's
reliability and availability, and that the aircraft failed to
demonstrate claimed radar performance or its claimed ability to
supercruise. Singapore was also reportedly unimpressed by Rafale's
much vaunted "Omni role" capability. "Show us, properly" was said to
have been the reaction, according to Defence Analysis. The lack of
official comment by Singapore leads many to dismiss such criticism
as unreliable hearsay, however.

If criticism of under-powered engines and the passive electron-scan
radar (which Defence Analysis say is viewed by many as a
technological dead end) is to be overcome, Dassault badly need to
fund the advanced F3 variant, but this is unlikely to happen quickly
without an export customer (according to Aviation Week and Space
Technology). A fully-developed F3 would, however, seem much more
likely to gain export success. In January 2005 it was announced that
eight aircraft would be cut from French orders specifically to free
up funding for advanced radar development, while Meteor integration
is also being accelerated.

Whatever Rafale's supposed "weaknesses" it must be acknowledged that
the type has been quietly gathering real operational experience in
the air-to-air role since the first Rafale Ms were delivered to the
Aéronavale, and this alone is a significant advantage, giving the
type great credibility. Moreover, while development of some
competing aircraft has often been delayed because manufacturers have
been unwilling to press ahead "at risk" the relationship between
Dassault and the French government and military has allowed the
development programme to press ahead at a ferocious pace.

[Tu160bomber]

Na Wikipedia qualquer um pode escrever o que quer

[piratadabaixada]

Jacques,

O programa Rafale está muito longe de não ter problemas, mas o fato é que não existe versão multi-funcional do Typhoon, não há prazos nem financiamentos aprovados.

Abraços,

Heronim

[Degan]

Na Wikipedia qualquer um pode escrever o que quer

Eso es correcto Tu160bomber, pero también la velocidad de corrección es muy rápida...y si esa información del Rafale se ha mantenido ahí por meses (a mi me consta) pues no deja de ser información a tener en cuenta.

Saludos cordiales,

[cido]

Na Wikipedia qualquer um pode escrever o que quer

Eso es correcto Tu160bomber, pero también la velocidad de corrección es muy rápida...y si esa información del Rafale se ha mantenido ahí por meses (a mi me consta) pues no deja de ser información a tener en cuenta.

Saludos cordiales,

hahahahaha
então vo lá eu editar dizendo que o f-5 BR é melhor que o F-16 chileno
Wikipédia não dá sinceramente....

[Penguin]

A grande direrenca eh que nesta materia o autor faz uma sintese citando as fontes. Por exemplo, a materia com os problemas do radar e da multifuncionalidade foi postada aqui mesmo neste forum. Os problemas financeiros tb jah foram fruto de outras materias. E ha problemas graves que se forem verdadeiros sao no minimo comprometedores (IRST, software, etc).

Creio que esta eh uma boa base para se investigar.


Nao devemos acreditar cegamente que o Rafale eh uma maravilha sem problemas so pq ele eh da Dassault, que eh acionista da Embraer, e tem grandes possibilidades de ser o novo caca da FAB.

[Penguin]

Na Wikipedia qualquer um pode escrever o que quer

Eso es correcto Tu160bomber, pero también la velocidad de corrección es muy rápida...y si esa información del Rafale se ha mantenido ahí por meses (a mi me consta) pues no deja de ser información a tener en cuenta.

Saludos cordiales,

hahahahaha
então vo lá eu editar dizendo que o f-5 BR é melhor que o F-16 chileno
Wikipédia não dá sinceramente....

Vc pode fazer isso, citando as fontes. Se nao o fizer, nao tera a minima credibilidade.

[Penguin]

Jacques,

O programa Rafale está muito longe de não ter problemas, mas o fato é que não existe versão multi-funcional do Typhoon, não há prazos nem financiamentos aprovados.

Abraços,

Heronim

Heronin,

Nao eh isso que diz as noticias sobre o Typhoon:


http://www.eurofighter.com/News/Article ... ItemId=183

BAE SYSTEMS

17 November 2005 - First Tranche 2 Typhoon Takes Shape at Samlesbury

Assembly of the first production standard Tranche 2 Typhoon has started at BAE Systems Samlesbury in the North-West of England. The Tranche 2 aircraft will provide the UK’s Royal Air Force and other customer Air Forces with an improved operational performance, including a full air to surface capability. The build of the first Tranche 2 Typhoon commenced with the spigot frames, part of the aircraft’s front fuselage, being loaded into assembly jigs in the Typhoon Major Units Assembly Facility at Samlesbury.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.eurofighter.com/News/Article ... ItemId=183

17 December 2004 - Tranche 2 Contract Signed
Largest Order Book for Next Generation Fighter Aircraft

(Hallbergmoos – 17 December, 2004) Eurofighter GmbH and NATO Eurofighter Tornado Management Agency NETMA have on Tuesday 14 December 2004 signed the international production contract for a further 236 aircraft for the four Partner Nations Germany, Italy, Spain and the United Kingdom.

With the signature of the Tranche 2 agreement, the continued production of the aircraft is assured, while at the same time, further development of the operational capabilities will be enabled through the introduction of Tranche 2 hardware and software standards (including enhancement of the mission computer’s data processing capacity). With this enabling package, the integration of new air-to-ground and air-to-air weapons will follow.

Out of the 620 aircraft incorporated within the umbrella contract, 384 will now be in production for the four customer air forces. Production of the 236 Tranche 2 aircraft is split into:

68 for Germany
33 for Spain
46 for Italy
89 for the UK.
Deliveries to the nations are to commence early 2008. The overall value of the contract is in the region of Euro 13 billion.

The authorisation for Tranche 2 production will have a tremendous effect on the export potential of Eurofighter Typhoon. Having already secured the first export contract with Austria in 2003, for the delivery of 18 aircraft, and having been down-selected in both Greece and Singapore, the swing-role/multi-role capability that will be central to the Tranche 2 aircraft will serve to underline Eurofighter’s status as the credible European alternative in the Export Market, and emphasise why it is the weapon system of choice with five Nations.


Aloysius Rauen, CEO Eurofighter GmbH, commented: “The agreement we have signed is the major milestone in the programme, achieved in conjunction with our customer, after hard but fair negotiations, based on the spirit of true partnership.

This contract is also the precondition for the full air-to-ground capability the four nation customers require. It meets the structure of the umbrella contract signed in 1998 splitting production into three tranches, and it also puts Eurofighter in the lead in the international competition with now the largest confirmed order book for a next generation fighter aircraft.”




Images

High Resolution images of the Eurofighter Tranche 2 Contract Signature Ceremony can be downloaded from our web site. Hard Copy images are available on request.

http://www.eurofighter.com/medialibrary

For More Information contact:
Wolfdietrich Hoeveler
Vice President Communications

Telephone +49 (0)811 80-1555/1734
Mobile +49 (0)170 844 0474
Fax +49 (0)811 80-1557
E-mail info@eurofighter.com

[piratadabaixada]

Jacques,

O programa Rafale está muito longe de não ter problemas, mas o fato é que não existe versão multi-funcional do Typhoon, não há prazos nem financiamentos aprovados.

Abraços,

Heronim

Heronin,

Nao eh isso que diz as noticias sobre o Typhoon:


http://www.eurofighter.com/News/Article ... ItemId=183

BAE SYSTEMS

17 November 2005 - First Tranche 2 Typhoon Takes Shape at Samlesbury

Assembly of the first production standard Tranche 2 Typhoon has started at BAE Systems Samlesbury in the North-West of England. The Tranche 2 aircraft will provide the UK’s Royal Air Force and other customer Air Forces with an improved operational performance, including a full air to surface capability. The build of the first Tranche 2 Typhoon commenced with the spigot frames, part of the aircraft’s front fuselage, being loaded into assembly jigs in the Typhoon Major Units Assembly Facility at Samlesbury.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.eurofighter.com/News/Article ... ItemId=183

17 December 2004 - Tranche 2 Contract Signed
Largest Order Book for Next Generation Fighter Aircraft

(Hallbergmoos – 17 December, 2004) Eurofighter GmbH and NATO Eurofighter Tornado Management Agency NETMA have on Tuesday 14 December 2004 signed the international production contract for a further 236 aircraft for the four Partner Nations Germany, Italy, Spain and the United Kingdom.

With the signature of the Tranche 2 agreement, the continued production of the aircraft is assured, while at the same time, further development of the operational capabilities will be enabled through the introduction of Tranche 2 hardware and software standards (including enhancement of the mission computer’s data processing capacity). With this enabling package, the integration of new air-to-ground and air-to-air weapons will follow.

Out of the 620 aircraft incorporated within the umbrella contract, 384 will now be in production for the four customer air forces. Production of the 236 Tranche 2 aircraft is split into:

68 for Germany
33 for Spain
46 for Italy
89 for the UK.
Deliveries to the nations are to commence early 2008. The overall value of the contract is in the region of Euro 13 billion.

The authorisation for Tranche 2 production will have a tremendous effect on the export potential of Eurofighter Typhoon. Having already secured the first export contract with Austria in 2003, for the delivery of 18 aircraft, and having been down-selected in both Greece and Singapore, the swing-role/multi-role capability that will be central to the Tranche 2 aircraft will serve to underline Eurofighter’s status as the credible European alternative in the Export Market, and emphasise why it is the weapon system of choice with five Nations.


Aloysius Rauen, CEO Eurofighter GmbH, commented: “The agreement we have signed is the major milestone in the programme, achieved in conjunction with our customer, after hard but fair negotiations, based on the spirit of true partnership.

This contract is also the precondition for the full air-to-ground capability the four nation customers require. It meets the structure of the umbrella contract signed in 1998 splitting production into three tranches, and it also puts Eurofighter in the lead in the international competition with now the largest confirmed order book for a next generation fighter aircraft.”




Images

High Resolution images of the Eurofighter Tranche 2 Contract Signature Ceremony can be downloaded from our web site. Hard Copy images are available on request.

http://www.eurofighter.com/medialibrary

For More Information contact:
Wolfdietrich Hoeveler
Vice President Communications

Telephone +49 (0)811 80-1555/1734
Mobile +49 (0)170 844 0474
Fax +49 (0)811 80-1557
E-mail info@eurofighter.com

Jacques,

Desculpe mas o texto acima não muda muita coisa.

Abraços,

Heronim